Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Wasabi Jun 23 2008, 10:52 AM

How many runs can be done in a month?

Lifestyle and program degradation of cracked software in Unwired make time a larger enemy in Shadowrun. My character would prefer to do 4 in a month so program degradation on cracked software and lifestyle costs are charged less frequently. I've read mixed things on how its supposed to work. Most recently I have been told that the "week off" is required after each run limiting the number of runs to 2 per given month.

Lastly, I've looked at http://www.shadowrun4.com/missions/players.shtml as well as "Calendar.pdf" and been unable to find anything on how it works. The only reference is "Characters are allowed to make one 'run per week in game time" but doesn't say if the one week cooldown is optional or mandatory.

Posted by: DireRadiant Jun 23 2008, 01:39 PM

So you are asking if that sentence about runners being allowed to make one run a week actually can mean you can do more then one run a week?

No, runners can only do one run per week. You could take more then one week between runs.

There are ways to make more nuyen in Missions then the base mission payout, so you can easily earn a high lifestyle.

Posted by: Drogos Jun 23 2008, 01:53 PM

Is that an optional rule from Unwired (I dont have it yet)? Because if so, it has no bearing on Missions, fyi.

Posted by: RobertB Jun 23 2008, 02:05 PM

1) Wasabi is asking if he MUST take a week off after a mission. That is, he can only perform two runs in a game month. He's not asking if he can perform MORE than one run a week.

2) No, program degradation is not listed as an optional rule. If you use pirated/warez software, it degrades a point or two (depending on the type of software) per month automatically.

Wasabi, I'll tell you this. If we were supposed to take a week off in between our missions, I'm in big trouble. The only time I didn't run a mission in a particular week was if my character was working on something.

Robert (aka Spanner)

Posted by: the_dunner Jun 23 2008, 02:35 PM

The text that DireRadiant posted above accurately reflects how Missions is supposed to work. I'm not sure why or where Wasabi got the impression that you had to take a week off after each mission. (Wasabi, if you can provide me a quote, I'd like to correct it!)

As RobertB indicated, Program Degradation is not an optional rule. If you've got software that wasn't purchased legally, then your program ratings will go down over time (Unwired, p.109). This can be fixed by either purchasing new software, writing your own patch(Unwired, p.118-9), or by finding it on a file sharing network. (Unwired, p.94)

Edit to be explicit:
The intent is to allow 1 'run per week, aka 4 per month, plus 1 extra per quarter.

Posted by: paws2sky Jun 23 2008, 08:42 PM

Whoa. That's, um... Pretty nasty. It actually makes a lot of sense, but still. Ouch.
(Makes playing a TM a bit more appealing though).

-paws

Posted by: Wasabi Jun 23 2008, 10:21 PM

Thanks, Dunner. I was told by a Commando this weekend that it was max of two 'runs per month. I'll keep the name to myself because the Commando was nice enough to be running Shadowrun in the first place but me and my crew have always done it like this. MAN OH MAN the amount of nuyen we've wasted on this. Oh well, at least my programs don't degrade every-other game now and it could be worse... I might not've asked until end of NY.

Well, thanks for the quick reply!

Posted by: Kithran Jun 24 2008, 12:03 PM

As a general question when do new rules items from books apply? Is it from the point the book is released in PDF or when it is out in hardcopy? If a gm doesn't have the book (e.g. they don't like PDFs and are waiting for the FLGS to get the hardcopy in) what happens? Can a player make use of rules if they have a copy of the new book but the gm doesn't?

Kithran

Posted by: the_dunner Jun 24 2008, 02:06 PM

Having an "official" answer to this would be a touch awkward, because I don't want GMs or players to feel like they have to begin studying a new book the nanosecond the PDF becomes available.

I'd say the bottom line is the point at which the group is comfortable using them. If it's a con(-like) game, then it's the GM's choice whether to use a recent book or not. However, if a player is expecting to use materials from a sourcebook, they need to either have the book or a printout of the relevant pages from the PDF with them.

Posted by: paws2sky Jun 24 2008, 02:21 PM

So... If the GM decides to exclude a book because s/he feels it adds more complexity than benefits, that's cool?

-paws

Posted by: the_dunner Jun 24 2008, 04:56 PM

For a home game, that doesn't count as part of SRM, a GM can do whatever they wish.

For a campaign game, they need to use the books that are available and with which they're familiar. Omitting a non-optional rule is not OK.

Posted by: paws2sky Jun 24 2008, 05:50 PM

Sure, wouldn't want to pick and choose... but, if one, sadly, didn't have the funds to acquire a core book, they'd still be able to run a campaign game, right?

Posted by: DireRadiant Jun 24 2008, 05:57 PM

I expect most Catalyst Demo Team members who run SR Missions in Firebases for the public will in fact have all the core rules. There will be the occasional ahead of the curve pdf purchasing player who will come to the game wanting to use the latest book that the GM doesn't have... yet. That player should become a Catalyst Demo team member since they are so dedicated. Or buy the book for the GM.

You can do something about it. It's easy. Even I can do it.

Posted by: the_dunner Jun 24 2008, 06:09 PM

Yes, of course.

Posted by: paws2sky Jun 24 2008, 06:11 PM

Thanks for clarifying.

Posted by: Jack Kain Jul 11 2008, 09:53 PM

Keep in mind a group of shadowrunners can often pool their resources and maintain a collective high life style cheeper then maintaining individually middle lifestyles on their own.

I can also see developing rules for buying pirating patches which would cost only a fraction of the original program. Usually patches are free so a enterprising hacker could make a lot of money in the long term by buying legal programing and continually cracking the patches and selling them.

Posted by: Wasabi Jul 11 2008, 10:40 PM

Lifestyles can now be forged using the rules in Unwired making this an even more viable tactic. If the additional roommates chip in on their added expenses (using the team lifestyle rules in the BBB) then its quite affordable indeed.



Programs and patches from the Cracker Underground cost 10% of the program cost if I'm reading Unwired correctly. Are there rules by RAW for ow long it takes to sell things? [Like reverse availability I suppose...]

Posted by: Jack Kain Jul 12 2008, 12:42 AM

There is but you tend to sell things at 30% of their total value. The Fencing rules are on page 303. And having a contact do it for you is is on 280.

There aren't official rules for selling gear at a higher then 30% value say through simple die rolls, but my GM has some, don't recall how they worked off hand (other then being crazy) and rules for buying them cheaper.

Posted by: Wasabi Jul 12 2008, 09:47 PM

30% of book value for cracked software is 3% of uncracked then. Nuts. (30% of 10%)
For SRM games its RAW all the way. Bummer.

Posted by: luke s Aug 1 2008, 01:40 PM

Am I stuck with a Low to Middle lifestyle?


Well, it depends on whom you sell out to in NYC.....


Besides, lifestyle is so....ephemeral!

Posted by: Aaron Aug 1 2008, 01:45 PM

Has anybody mentioned that Table Rating is now chosen by the players, and that the tends to increase with Table Rating?

Posted by: paws2sky Aug 1 2008, 02:17 PM

I think this was a good move.

A lot of the frustration with the Denver arc (which I'm currently running) seems to come from the fact that you were locked into a low pay scale for too long. If fact, I wager that if you applied the player-chosen TR to Denver, it would probably work out very nicely.

Anyway... you can get some pretty nice payouts in NYC if you're gutsy enough to use a high TR. Of course, the opposition ramps up its abilities too, so...

-paws

Posted by: Aaron Aug 1 2008, 05:03 PM

I'm in favor of higher TRs. I think there should definitely be more TPKs jing being earned by PCs.

Actually, I believe that both Bull and Caine Hazen may be able to speak to increasing the TR.

Posted by: Caine Hazen Aug 1 2008, 05:46 PM

You shot down my rigger in cold blood.. I'm not talkin to you no more

Actually yeah, I do like the system, because it lets you scale some. I transfered over a 40-some-ish karma character from Denver to NYC and the first table I played (Aaron's running of 00) there were only 3 of us. As Bull and our other runner there were startup characters we were torn on rating 2 or 3. We went with two, which ended up with me being plugged back into my Valkyrie module in my rigging cocoon and Bull's character unconsious and the table mage making a rundown of the escapee. We made it out, but the pay was only 3K for the whole thing. Our next table was 2 transfers, 2 people who had played one mission and 4 newbs. We ran at TR4 and did fine, and got all sorts of good payout (I think I took 20K plus some new drones, plus some corp affiliation prizes). Was a good run with some really good players, but I'd say if I can keep taking that much every run... I could well live at least high lifestyle.

Coming in with 2 months prepaid helps too
As a note, the second mission was the first I played with a real dedicated Face... damn do those help a hell of a lot.

Posted by: paws2sky Aug 1 2008, 06:10 PM

My wife and I played NYC missions 00 through 03 at Origins.

We tried a TR1 and it was easy. Like, really easy. Too easy, even. Payout was acceptable, but not exciting. We had a lot of newbies at the table - including ones that had barely heard of Shadowrun, let alone played - so it was probably for the best.

We tried one mission at TR4 and my wife's character almost died (her dice were not on her side. At all.). Solid payout and some good perks though.

The other two missions we played were TR3. That seemed to be the sweet spot for a pickup group. Decent payout, decent benefits, and challenging enough to be fun. I think a more tight knit group, who knew each other's abilities, might be comfortable with something higher.

Throughout it all we had a mix of veterans and newbies, experienced characters and ones pulled straight from the book. Overall, it was a nice, diverse mix.

-paws
PS I'll second the notion of buying 2 months of lifestyle ahead of time. I made sure our characters had that, just in case. Worked out just about right.