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Posted by: Shadowfox Jan 23 2010, 08:16 PM

If we're just starting out, how can someone already have a corporate affiliation at the beginning of the game? There are critera listed to get the rewards at the end of the mission, but how can you get those rewards if fulfilling the corporate side quests is what starts you off as an affiliate?


Also, do you let your runners know that there are corporate affiliations in the game and that there are certain things that will attract there attention?

Posted by: BishopMcQ Jan 23 2010, 11:35 PM

When starting, you will not have Corporate Affiliations. The runners are not alerted of the requirements until they have become affiliates. They become affiliates by completing a task before the end of the run. Players will be informed of corporate affiliations by reading the Missions FAQ, but the exact requirements are for GM's eyes only.

Posted by: Black Jack Rackham Jan 24 2010, 11:58 AM

As McQ said, you don't at the beginning of the game, but the 'first' adventure has them because not every player plays the missions in order...

Mark

Posted by: Orcus Blackweather Feb 19 2010, 10:22 PM

I was asked to simply choose corp affiliation, none was of course an option. Then during my first mission, I was given a task to complete.

Posted by: BishopMcQ Feb 19 2010, 11:14 PM

Huh...Orcus, I think your GM may have misunderstood the affiliation system.

As an overview:
You become affiliated by completing certain tasks. (Often there are jobs that the corps don't even tell you about that can bring you to their attention - like using a weapon with an availability over 16 in Manhattan, or fast talking your way past a security checkpoint) Becoming an affiliate requires you to complete one of these tasks without being told, and then you are offered an Affiliation. The corps will only offer 1-2 affiliations, so if multiple unaffiliated people complete the task, they may not all get invited. You can collect multiple affiliations if you'd like (though there are some downsides)

You can also gain affiliation with the Neo-A's by refusing affiliations and completing tasks for the Neo-A's.

Posted by: Axl Feb 19 2010, 11:36 PM

Multiple affiliations at the same time? I wasn't aware of that.

Posted by: Delarn Feb 20 2010, 01:05 AM

That's the fun part of it. Being affiliated with corpo that ask for different things and are in conflict will have the player dizzy !

Posted by: Troll Bouncer Feb 25 2010, 03:59 AM

Sounds like fun though

Posted by: Wasabi Feb 25 2010, 12:21 PM

Be careful who you sell your soul to as souls are nonrefundable.

I've also seen a negative aspect of the Affiliations system.. we had a runner work against completion of the mission and it not only took time away from our time slot it almost made him kill on sight. I'm not against the affiiations system, no, but realize its not a frivolous thing to sell your soul.

Posted by: DireRadiant Feb 25 2010, 03:08 PM

Runners and Corps working at cross purposes? Can't be Shadowrun then.

Posted by: RobertB Feb 26 2010, 05:39 PM

Just say "No" to corporate affiliations!

Robert (aka Spanner)

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Feb 27 2010, 08:06 PM

Wasabi raises a good point one which I thought I would expand on at least based on my experience playing and running missions in new york. Remember that your affiliations and affiliate orders are bonuses and suggestions where as the actual mission you are on is a paycheck. Now there is a chance that your affiliate reward will be something fantastic who's value far eclipses the gains from your primary mission, other time it will be stuff that's worthless to you (high essence item for a runner who's already heavily cybered or magic based, Pocket Hacker agent for a hacker character etc) either way you won't know until you get it. I would caution people to not greatly concern themselves if they can't complete a mission objective or if it would run counter to their paid mission objectives. Your affiliates are only going to care if you actively work against their interests or if you blab about your affiliated status.

So my advice to all shadowrunners and corporate affiliates is this A) Live to get paid B) Get paid C) Everything else

Posted by: CollateralDynamo Mar 1 2010, 10:09 PM

My character has picked up quite a few affiliations over the course of the missions set and has managed to so far accomplish MOST goals (i.e. the ones that aren't at odds with each other) as well as accomplishing the missions. Now, I'm sure that as the campaign progresses it will become more and more difficult to do this as the corp will want to take bigger and bigger bites out of you.

BUT, I've noticed that if you play things somewhat openly with your other runners, things can work out rather well for the affiliations. Early on, I heavily debated whether I should be secretly meeting affiliation goals, or doing so openly. I've discovered that if, after you get your affiliation notices, you say, "Hey guys, Ares offered me a couple of bucks to do X. If you help me out, I'll pass along the good word for you guys...or keep you guys out of this entirely, whichever you prefer," your party tends to be really open.

It gives them a chance to pick up affiliations they don't have but want, and it gives you the seeming of more trust on top of this. If you run into a situation where you are questioning jeopardizing the entire mission for your side objective. You need to think carefully, will the corp really pay better then you are already being offered? If they are, perhaps its best to try to convince your whole team to join in on this take so that you don't become KOS the next time one of them ends up at your table. After all, its a small city.

Take this from one of the guys who was framed for the collapsing building at the '08 Scramble. YOU HEAR ME GUYS!? I WAS FRAMED!

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Mar 1 2010, 10:47 PM

Hmmm I could be wrong and I am currently away from my module collection but it's my understanding that that is exactly the sort of behavior that is going to provoke a public awareness roll and a possible reprisal by the affiliated corp (although usually only withholding your reward or terminating your affiliation, not necissarily terminating you). Now what I have seen done more often, especially in the case of side missions requiring a specialized skill set but I ahve seen people say. "Hey I need X done, mind doing it for me?" and either just a request for a favor of sliping a few creds on the side. That still qualifies the "helper" for an affiliation offer and I picked up one of my affiliations up in almost exactly that manner. The distinction is small but important. The first rule of corporate affiliation is you don't talk about corporate affiliation.

Posted by: CollateralDynamo Mar 2 2010, 04:32 PM

I find it difficult to believe that the megacorp is SO omnipotent that they know whether I told my runner compatriots, in the privacy of my own white noise generating van, "Hey, Ares wants something done" vs. "Hey, I want something done".

However, this does raise a valid point. The megeacorp is pretty unbelievably omnipotent in the missions scenarios. It seems like every corp knows every run you've ever done. This is intriguing as it implies that the corporations really don't care who is hitting who, as long as it is done in a professional and polite manner. Since all the corps seem to know everything about each other, is it so unreasonable for them to assume that their runner's are a little smart, and asked around before pulling side-gigs? After all, nobody wants to accidentally do anything for Aztenchnology. ;P

Posted by: Black Jack Rackham Mar 2 2010, 05:22 PM

I never got the impression that the megas are omnipotent as much as 'aware of their sphere of influence.' I tell my players that once you've affiliated, you're expected to 'check in' just to be sure you aren't inadvertently harming their profit margin. So, when the mega says "Hey you're doing X, and while you're at it get us a sample." They are aware you're doing X because you told them you were.

Anyway, just my .234598739485739457 nuyen worth.

Mark

Posted by: Axl Mar 2 2010, 05:58 PM

The other surprising issue is that once affiliated, no other corp will ever offer affiliation. This implies that all the other corps already know that the character is affiliated.

Posted by: BishopMcQ Mar 2 2010, 06:16 PM

Axl--Yes they will. You can collect several affiliations.

Posted by: Kovu Muphasa Mar 2 2010, 06:41 PM

I have one character with a "Real Coperatre Affiliation"
Devon: His Father is a Mid to High level Renraku Executive, so he does not like taking runs agaist them, anthing else is fair game.

Posted by: Axl Mar 2 2010, 07:31 PM

BishopMcQ, from the Missions: "If an unaffiliated PC completes a secondary objective... then he gets an offer to affiliate."

There doesn't seem to be any discussion about extra affiliation for an already affiliated character.

Posted by: Delarn Mar 2 2010, 07:45 PM

Axl, if a character impress a corpo by an action they will send a message or mind link him to tell him he has the choice to affiliate or not. So in different missions come differents affiliation. But you end up affilitated to all of them.

Posted by: BishopMcQ Mar 2 2010, 07:52 PM

If the PC is not affiliated with the company, they will get the offer. Basically, if a PC is already an affiliate with Spinrad, they won't get an offer from Spinrad again.

AFFILIATION
If a PC completes a secondary objective without being assigned it, and is not already affiliated with the corporation that would have assigned it, that corporation will discretely approach the PC at the end of the scenario and make an offer of affiliation with them.
The usual pitch mentions that the corporation will want small jobs done on the side with the promise of rewards from the corporation. The need for secrecy is always emphasized. There is no up-front offer; the deal is simply between two free business entities. If the PC agrees, he or she becomes an affiliate for that corporation.
Each corporation will only extend an offer to one or two shadowrunners, usually the ones who best undertook the objective for that corporation.

Posted by: Warlordtheft Mar 2 2010, 08:23 PM

Having done two of the New York Missions---I do think it is rather odd (and somewhat unnerving) when this top secret mission your supposed to be on is known to be taking place by more than the Johnson and your team. My gut reaction is that it is a setup, the Johnson blew it, or something of both. Especially in the last mission (I'll avoid spoilers, so excuse me if this is vague), were we were to blow up X, and had set up patsy humanis goon y to take the fall. Now the Johnson was a moron/first timer, and that increased my paranoia.


PS:Is it true NEO-A affiliation only comes from turning down all corporate affiliations? Or could I get it by just refusing a few of them.

PSPS:In future missions or some of the missions, I assume syndicate/gang affiliation is possible as well?

Posted by: Axl Mar 2 2010, 10:15 PM

"If a PC completes a secondary objective without being assigned it, and is not already affiliated with the corporation that would have assigned it, that corporation will discretely approach the PC at the end of the scenario and make an offer of affiliation with them." - BishopMcQ

[Emphasis mine.] This is not what it says in the Missions. The Missions say "If an unaffiliated PC completes a secondary objective, even accidentally, then he gets an offer to affiliate instead of the reward."

The implication is "If the PC is already affiliated (regardless to whom), no offer is forthcoming". I realize that you are the Missions Co-ordinator and we must abide by your ruling. However your statement is in contradiction to the Missions document.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Mar 2 2010, 10:19 PM

It is plausable because as part of your affiliation you are told not to disclose your affiliation to anyone, not even other affiliates not even known members of the company. You cannot walk up to Ieto Hahn (horizon security synergist from the first mission) and say "By the way I'm with you guys, is there anything I can do for you?" even though Hahn is more then likely aware of the affiliate program and maybe even aware of your affiliation the affiliate program only works as long as there is an thin coating of deniability. If your telling folks "Hey guys Ares is asking me to do this" your failing that, if your saying "Hey guys I need to get this done" your at least comporting to the requirements the corps give you.

Now even so the corps arn't omniscient transgressions by an affiliate cause a roll using your public awareness roll. If your a starting runner or someone who takes steps to keep that stat low, you can likely get away with telling others that you work for the corp as the corp hasn't invested the resources in monitoring you as closely and so the roll to "hear" you is little or no dice.

Kovu: That's fine from a roleplaying standpoint but for this particular discussion we're referring to a specific mechanic of the missions campaign starting in year 3 and hopefully continuing as I think affiliations are damn cool.

Axl: If an affiliate completes an objective they get the reward detailed in the end of the adventure.

Warlordtheft: No there are a few other ways to get Neo-A affiliation unfortunately usually to get Neo-A rewards you need to be unaffiliated. The Neo-A's stand on their principals.

Posted by: Axl Mar 2 2010, 10:19 PM

From my reading, if an Ares affiliate accidentally achieves Spinrad's secondary goal, Spinrad would not approach the character because he is not "an unaffiliated PC".

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Mar 2 2010, 10:21 PM

Spinrad will approach with an offer of affiliation. The only reason they would not approach is if the player has gained another NEW affiliation that mission, which is admitedly more of a gameplay thing then a realism thing, but there you go.

Posted by: Axl Mar 2 2010, 10:22 PM

"Axl: If an affiliate completes an objective they get the reward detailed in the end of the adventure." - Lurker

Um, yes, I already know that.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Mar 2 2010, 10:28 PM

Alright but you seem confused on something.

When they are reffering to an unaffiliated PC they are speaking in terms of unaffiliated with that SPECIFIC corporation. The corps are unaware of who is affiliated with other corps. That's why you get fun missions like "Turn in anyone you know to be affiliated with X"

Posted by: Delarn Mar 2 2010, 10:40 PM

I refer the affiliation system has THE GAME. All the corporation knows that a game is going on and they don't know who is the token affiliated with. Then player that are doing more than one affiliation are just a multiple token in the same game !

Posted by: BishopMcQ Mar 2 2010, 11:28 PM

Axl--The quote I posted for Affiliations was copied directly from 03-05. If you are seeing something different, please let me know so I can review it. (A Mission number and page reference would help!)

The quote above was 03-05, page 16, Affiliation.

Posted by: Axl Mar 3 2010, 06:27 PM

I don't have 05 (In and Out?) but I had a closer look at Everyone's Your Friend. Now I see that there is another section at the end of the Mission as you pointed out.

It would have been helpful to mention this at the intro section to the Mission. In my group, we rotate the GM duties between five of us, and none of us spotted this. We've been missing out on affiliation offers.

I will be running Knight at the Opera this weekend, so I'll be sure to review the secondary goals and offer extra affiliations as appropriate.

Posted by: unemployedsamurai Mar 10 2010, 05:34 AM

just be careful with affiliations, you can get your team into trouble real fast if you focus to much on completing the side mission and not keping your eys on the prize. Rewards can be fantastic fro completing the side missions for your affiliation but at a Con remember their are usually 5-6 other people at the table who are trying to complete the primary run. Don't let your greed mess with the overall fun at the table. You only have 4 hrs to complete the mission use it wisely. Having said that though if the opportunity in the mission arrises to complete your side task take it, you've already sold your soul might as well enjoy the rewards. Nice to be owned. mulitiple affiliations do complicate things try and stick to just one task if you can if the opportunity presents itself though try and go for two. just remember to have fun at the table and include everyone in the Run. After all most of use Convention goers are on vacation, so enjoy