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Dumpshock Forums _ General Gaming _ Cyberpunk 2020
Posted by: Schaeffer Jul 26 2006, 03:45 PM
This may belong more to another thread, but I wasn't sure, so here you go!
I just picked up a copy of the old Cyberpunk 2020 game. I was wondering what those of you who are familiar with it/have played it think it might do better than Shadowrun? Worse?
Posted by: nezumi Jul 26 2006, 04:02 PM
CP is nice in that it applies the cyberpunk theme to more aspects of life, I think. In Shadowrun, your average wageslave will have a datajack and nothing more. In CP, he'll have a datajack, headware memory, cyber eyes, replacement arms and a Mr. Studd. That also means that the PCs can buy more diverse ware. In SR, 90% of the ware is dedicated to killing other people or interfacing with electronics, which is fairly limiting, all told. CP, as written, also tends to be more 'street level' to begin with.
That's the good stuff.
On the flip side, I have never heard of or seen an instance of a CP game which is not heavily house ruled. The rules as printed simply are not sufficient for much of what has to be done. The combat system is neat, but there's so much about the world that isn't written down, and is even contradictory between one canon text and the next, that it's really tough to know how things work. There's no metaplot to fall back on, basically. When I ran a game, one player got on my case because I let someone else have the Metal Gear armor and wear it in public. But there's nothing in the book that would indicate that would be a problem, especially in the barrens. Good luck finding how the equivalent of the SIN system works, or what security measures come standard on a car! It's very much a DIY system. It also suffers from extreme power creep, so the GM needs to know more about what to look for to curb abuses.
Posted by: Grinder Jul 26 2006, 04:06 PM
I played a few CP games, all turned out to be pretty deadly. The combat is really dangerous (thanks to hit location system) and long. One thing I really missed was the magic of SR. You know, spellslingers, elves, dwarves, all that. CP felt boring for me. But I enjoyed reading the chromebooks 
Posted by: Birdy Jul 26 2006, 04:16 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| CP is nice in that it applies the cyberpunk theme to more aspects of life, I think. In Shadowrun, your average wageslave will have a datajack and nothing more. In CP, he'll have a datajack, headware memory, cyber eyes, replacement arms and a Mr. Studd. That also means that the PCs can buy more diverse ware. In SR, 90% of the ware is dedicated to killing other people or interfacing with electronics, which is fairly limiting, all told. CP, as written, also tends to be more 'street level' to begin with. That's the good stuff. On the flip side, I have never heard of or seen an instance of a CP game which is not heavily house ruled. The rules as printed simply are not sufficient for much of what has to be done. The combat system is neat, but there's so much about the world that isn't written down, and is even contradictory between one canon text and the next, that it's really tough to know how things work. There's no metaplot to fall back on, basically. When I ran a game, one player got on my case because I let someone else have the Metal Gear armor and wear it in public. But there's nothing in the book that would indicate that would be a problem, especially in the barrens. Good luck finding how the equivalent of the SIN system works, or what security measures come standard on a car! It's very much a DIY system. It also suffers from extreme power creep, so the GM needs to know more about what to look for to curb abuses. |
Actually if you read the WorldBook(s) and/or the "Screwhead" you get exactly the stuff that according to you does not exists. It's the same with SR where the basic book is not all that useful to answer those questions.
The CP universe has a strong timelineup to the 2025s that includes (Shockwave, Home/Brave, Deep Space, The general worldbooks etc) quite a bit of "Metaplot" if one wan't that stuff. It's just a lot easier to ignore since the power level of the characters is normally a bit lower that in SR. Just some elements:
+ Collaps of the US, War in SouthAm, Long March and Birth of the Nomads
+ Development of the EU, British military dictatorship and restauration
+ 4th Corporate war storyline
+ Orbitals and the related storyline
CP relies a bit more on that old fashioned think called "Using your brain". MilSpec Armor in anything but a combat zone is stupid i.e. But for those who need rules for that, there's "Listen Up you primitive Screwhead". Also CP often uses the "see current system" explanation since it is far closer to the real world. I.e there IS NO SIN-system.
As for the power creep, that is nicely contained in a few books that have NO background information and therefor can be locked away. And there's always the money balance - CP characters are poor.
Posted by: Birdy Jul 26 2006, 04:18 PM
| QUOTE (Grinder @ Jul 26 2006, 04:06 PM) |
| I played a few CP games, all turned out to be pretty deadly. The combat is really dangerous (thanks to hit location system) and long. One thing I really missed was the magic of SR. You know, spellslingers, elves, dwarves, all that. CP felt boring for me. But I enjoyed reading the chromebooks |
Who says CP has no magic? My character could make a pretty decend fireball. Granted, he needed a large material component.
If one absolutely needs magic there are two ways:
+ Use the "Werwolf&Vampire" Supplement from IIRC Ianus Games
+ Get the Fuzion-System and backport the stuff
The rest is a matter of body-sculpting.
As for boring/interesting: Guess that goes with the question wether you prefer the Cyber of the Magic Aspect. And the quality of the GM. Quite a lot of the GM's out there can't master a Cyberpunk universe and therefor have an easier time directing "AD&D with Gaitling-Guns"
Posted by: Tanka Jul 26 2006, 05:50 PM
| QUOTE (Birdy) |
| Quite a lot of the GM's out there can't master a Cyberpunk universe and therefor have an easier time directing "AD&D with Gaitling-Guns" |
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jul 26 2006, 06:01 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| In Shadowrun, your average wageslave will have a datajack and nothing more. In CP, he'll have a datajack, headware memory, cyber eyes, replacement arms and a Mr. Studd. That also means that the PCs can buy more diverse ware. In SR, 90% of the ware is dedicated to killing other people or interfacing with electronics, which is fairly limiting, all told. |
Of course, it's fairly trivial to assume that in your SR world the average wageslave has cybereyes and a limb or two, in addition to their jack. (headware memory having been absorbed by every other device in SR4)
Although, one thing I would really like to see in upcoming books is some more "civilian" 'ware. Inexpensive, not terribly useful in a Shadowrun, but flavorful. Sort of like the Mr. Studd.
That, or a little bit of emphasis on how standard 'ware might be used by other people. For example, consider the percentage of the population that has 1) a halfway decent amount of money and/or health insurance and 2)arthritis. I would assume that all of these people have enhanced articulation. Not to be bad-ass, but just for treatment. Or bone density for osteoporosis. Or...or...I'm going to go make another thread about this in the SR4 area.
Posted by: nezumi Jul 26 2006, 06:29 PM
| QUOTE (Birdy) |
| Actually if you read the WorldBook(s) and/or the "Screwhead" you get exactly the stuff that according to you does not exists. It's the same with SR where the basic book is not all that useful to answer those questions. The CP universe has a strong timelineup to the 2025s that includes (Shockwave, Home/Brave, Deep Space, The general worldbooks etc) quite a bit of "Metaplot" if one wan't that stuff. It's just a lot easier to ignore since the power level of the characters is normally a bit lower that in SR. Just some elements: + Collaps of the US, War in SouthAm, Long March and Birth of the Nomads + Development of the EU, British military dictatorship and restauration + 4th Corporate war storyline + Orbitals and the related storyline CP relies a bit more on that old fashioned think called "Using your brain". MilSpec Armor in anything but a combat zone is stupid i.e. But for those who need rules for that, there's "Listen Up you primitive Screwhead". Also CP often uses the "see current system" explanation since it is far closer to the real world. I.e there IS NO SIN-system. As for the power creep, that is nicely contained in a few books that have NO background information and therefor can be locked away. And there's always the money balance - CP characters are poor. |
I believe I read "Listen up you primitive screwheads" and it wasn't overly useful, mostly making up for too many players taking the powerful archetypes rather than the wussy ones. I read one of the world books (can't remember which). Again, I didn't see what I was looking for. I will admit, I didn't pour over the books, so I might have missed them. I think the book that really made me realize the deficiences in the system was the one about the fixer archetypes, where it had character concepts for fixers, but had practically nothing on how they go about doing it exactly. In other words, if you haven't studied fixers somewhere else, you'll have no idea how to play the character.
SR3 however, right in the main manual, has a few paragraphs about cyberware and gear in polite company. I can give you the page number if you'd like.
Posted by: Birdy Jul 26 2006, 07:33 PM
I strongly advice you re-read both the basic rulesbook and the archetype books. You clearly skimmed them without properly reading them.
Posted by: nezumi Jul 27 2006, 02:52 PM
Strange as it may sound, I'm not especially interested in doing a "thorough reading" of a book I've already read twice so I can help you prove your point 
Regardless, if I looked and couldn't find it, that indicates the book is either incomplete or poorly laid out. You can take your choice.
Posted by: Birdy Jul 27 2006, 02:57 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| Strange as it may sound, I'm not especially interested in doing a "thorough reading" of a book I've already read twice so I can help you prove your point Regardless, if I looked and couldn't find it, that indicates the book is either incomplete or poorly laid out. You can take your choice. |
I take option three: You didn't read it properly.
Just from the Top of my head, not having the book at hand, Wildside (The fixer book) has:
+ Descriptions of the various fixer archetypes
+ Rules for contacts, contact networks and upkeep
+ Rules for a black market system (Agora)
I am sure a quick run-through on the weekend will deliver the rest of the facts you believe not being in there.
Posted by: Tanka Jul 27 2006, 05:13 PM
Point is, if it requires further research and an index isn't helpful, it's poorly laid out.
Granted, most RPG sourcebooks fall under "poorly laid out", so... YMMV
Posted by: Birdy Jul 27 2006, 05:56 PM
| QUOTE (Tanka) |
| Point is, if it requires further research and an index isn't helpful, it's poorly laid out. Granted, most RPG sourcebooks fall under "poorly laid out", so... YMMV |
The weekend reference is due to the fact that the book is not in reach, not due to "I have to do research".
Posted by: eidolon Jul 27 2006, 06:55 PM
| QUOTE (Birdy) |
| Quite a lot of the GM's out there can't master a Cyberpunk universe and therefor have an easier time directing "AD&D with Gaitling[SIC]-Guns" |
1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling
2: I'm not entirely sure what you think you mean, but it would seem at first glance that it means you can't run an adequate SR game.
Some of the CP books have great stuff for porting to SR. The chromebooks are great (there's a free web-enhancement out there somewhere in which they port an exhaustive list of CP gear straight to SR stats, although I believe those stats are for 2nd edition SR; I could be wrong, and I'd check but my desktop is in the middle of the Pacific ocean at the moment). Wildside looked good, but I left it at a store with the intention of going back for it, and it was sold the next day. Oh well. That's what Ebay is for.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| That, or a little bit of emphasis on how standard 'ware might be used by other people. For example, consider the percentage of the population that has 1) a halfway decent amount of money and/or health insurance and 2)arthritis. I would assume that all of these people have enhanced articulation. Not to be bad-ass, but just for treatment. Or bone density for osteoporosis. |
My game has always had that. Why on Earth wouldn't a medical insurance having upper-middle class have cyber, not only for medical purposes but for cosmetic? (In fact, this is specifically mentioned in several sourcebooks.) So grandma has bone lacing to shore up her osteoporosis, junior has a cyber eye because he put one out doing one of those things that you hear does that, etc.
It's all about taking the material given you, and making it work and make sense.
Posted by: Birdy Jul 27 2006, 07:33 PM
Idolon, it's quite simple:
Most of the SR-groups I have played with (often on conventions) could just as well play AD&D, substituting automatic weapons for bows and swords.
ObtW: I give a rat's piss about spelling as long as persons get the meaning. And that they did obviously.
Posted by: Tanka Jul 27 2006, 07:54 PM
And most of the Vampire groups I've been with have been all about the necrophilia and Hot Lesbian Vampire Secks, instead of about, oh, y'know, the game.
I'm sure there are Vampire groups out there that aren't like what I've encountered. Doesn't mean I am going to say nobody can properly GM a Vampire game because of such situations.
Painting with a broad brush will, generally, just get you laughed at, not listened to.
Posted by: Schaeffer Jul 27 2006, 08:19 PM
So in regards to the original question, one of the only things CP2020 does "better" out of the gate than SR is its wider array of cyber for "the common folk", and possibly the combat system (if you like crunchier stuff).
Posted by: nezumi Jul 27 2006, 09:06 PM
| QUOTE (Birdy) |
| Just from the Top of my head, not having the book at hand, Wildside (The fixer book) has: + Descriptions of the various fixer archetypes + Rules for contacts, contact networks and upkeep + Rules for a black market system (Agora) I am sure a quick run-through on the weekend will deliver the rest of the facts you believe not being in there. |
Exactly. So where are the rules on creating fake IDs? For disguises? For creating false credentials? What are the rules for hotwiring a car and what sort of security measures does a car have? What equipment is considered inappropriate for use in public?
I have played very little CP, but all of these are questions I ran into and couldn't answer, despite pouring over the manuals. I HAVE looked, I don't plan on going back a second or third time. If you know where to find the answers, I honestly would appreciate it because I feel they're all very basic questions, and not knowing seriously impacted my enjoyment of the game.
Posted by: Birdy Jul 27 2006, 09:19 PM
| QUOTE (Schaeffer) |
| So in regards to the original question, one of the only things CP2020 does "better" out of the gate than SR is its wider array of cyber for "the common folk", and possibly the combat system (if you like crunchier stuff). |
Skill system & Task resolution system is also much faster for non-combat tasks
Weapons in the basic book are better balanced against one another
The limitations build into basic chargen force a feeling closer to Hardwired and other good CP fiction
Posted by: Birdy Jul 27 2006, 09:23 PM
| QUOTE (Tanka) |
| And most of the Vampire groups I've been with have been all about the necrophilia and Hot Lesbian Vampire Secks, instead of about, oh, y'know, the game. I'm sure there are Vampire groups out there that aren't like what I've encountered. Doesn't mean I am going to say nobody can properly GM a Vampire game because of such situations. Painting with a broad brush will, generally, just get you laughed at, not listened to. |
Re-Read. You might find the words "Quite a lot of". Now english thankfully is not my first language but IIRC that means "a majority but not all".
Having played with quite a few groups from all across Germany, Austria and the Netherlands I'd say I have gathered enough samples to make the step from my probe space to generalisation.
Posted by: Tanka Jul 27 2006, 10:28 PM
A lot of groups that I've gamed with would've been a much, much better wording of the statement.
All is a terrible all-or-nothing statement that is what makes people form ignorant opinions about things.
Posted by: Birdy Jul 28 2006, 09:51 AM
| QUOTE (Tanka) |
| A lot of groups that I've gamed with would've been a much, much better wording of the statement. All is a terrible all-or-nothing statement that is what makes people form ignorant opinions about things. |
Misquoting people is a habit of three species that deserve to be shot on side - Politicians, Lawyers and MBA's
The only person who uses the Term "All" is a certain Mr. Tanka.
Posted by: Adam Jul 28 2006, 01:55 PM
Boy, this thread totally makes me want to play Cyberpunk!
Posted by: Schaeffer Jul 28 2006, 02:00 PM
Well, so far it certainly sounds as if it lacked much of Shadowrun's published depth, in the form of rules to cover every situation or just plain background. Not having played it myself, and only owning the corebook, I'd say I'm better off sticking with Shadowrun and just using some ideas from CP2020 (such as cyberpsychosis) where I find them.
Posted by: Tanka Jul 28 2006, 02:46 PM
| QUOTE (Adam) |
| Boy, this thread totally makes me want to play Cyberpunk! |
Yup, because, y'know, anyone who plays SR is just some D&D fanboi who can't let go of his magic.
Posted by: Birdy Jul 28 2006, 03:05 PM
| QUOTE (Tanka) | ||
Yup, because, y'know, anyone who plays SR is just some D&D fanboi who can't let go of his magic. |
I so agree with you!
Posted by: Tanka Jul 28 2006, 03:19 PM
I'm done responding to the obvious trollbait.
Birdy, when you get your head out of your ass, let us all know.
Posted by: Birdy Jul 28 2006, 03:37 PM
| QUOTE (Tanka) |
| I'm done responding to the obvious trollbait. Birdy, when you get your head out of your ass, let us all know. |
To say it in german:
Du mich auch!
Posted by: eidolon Jul 29 2006, 12:02 AM
Well. That degenerated quickly.
Posted by: Schaeffer Jul 29 2006, 04:47 PM
Yes, it did. At least a few posts helped me out.
Posted by: eidolon Jul 29 2006, 05:55 PM
Another thought on CP. I say if you can get stuff for it cheap, do it. (I know the OP has it already, I just mean in general.) Even if you never play it and don't like it, it's a great source of info and ideas. My motto is "if it's cheap as hell, buy it" because you never know when you'll run a game that some random In Nomine (or whatever) book will add major cool points to, you know?
Posted by: Kagetenshi Jul 29 2006, 07:21 PM
| QUOTE (Birdy) |
| Most of the SR-groups I have played with (often on conventions) |
Stop playing convention games. Seriously, there's your problem right there.
~J
Posted by: Grinder Jul 29 2006, 08:50 PM
Yep. Most con games I played were horrible.
Posted by: dog_xinu Aug 20 2006, 08:55 PM
I used to play CP2020 exclusively, thinking that ShadowRun was just a bad hack at mashing D&D and CP2020 together. I at the time I had every book ever written for CP, and all the mags, etc. I was hard core into it. Then a good friend of mine (now he is one of my best friends), introduced me to SR (not here is the game, blah blah blah), he got me into it by helping me tweak a character that I really wanted to play. He was no min/maxed to the extreme but he was diffinately onesided character. He was a decker, err I mean hacker in the new world.... He sucked at just about everything but hacking. But he was darn good at that.
Looking back at CP2020, it is good system. BUT there is only one or two ways to solve any problem/situation. Where as with SR, you have many more options due to Magic, Adepts (Magical, PhysAd, GunSlinger,etc), TechnoManchers, etc. The wider the spread of the party in "archtypes" (I dont like using that term) the more options to solve the problem/situation.
back at GenCon Indy this year, we where playing SR3 (that is the game that everyone at the table knew - I was the only one that had ever played SR4 before the con). We as a group got in a situation that we needed to get out of. The FACE did her "magic" but trying to talk our way out of it. The Gator Shaman was casting spells to help. The Rigger was moving his armored/armed boat around to give "support" (and was very minicing). I on the other hand, pulled out a kilo of C12 with a detonator already in it, saying "....I can take care of this one and for all....." Between the HMGs on the boat, the Sammies with various ARs (AK98s for the most part), the Gator Shamon doing some magic, an inbred cajun hick talking about blowing stuff up (and the various C12 kilos were seen by many), helped the FACE talk our way out of the situation. I think what gave the face extra points in her favor was after I started pulling C12 out, saying I was going to start blowing stuff up... she looked at me and said "... Bubba Joe Earl, I told you that you can not blow anything else up today.... you have to wait until tomorrow.... so put your explosives away...." with my response "... ahh mari sue.. I just want to blow up a few more things today...." Ok, maybe I slide off topic for a minute there..
After the SR world and system was full explained to me and show the good, the bad and the ugly, I have not gone back to CP2020. All my CP2020 books are on the shelf collecting dust. If I ever wanted to play a SR-type game with no magic, I would go straight to CP2002.
hopefully I answered your question somewhere in my ramblings...
dog
Posted by: Schaeffer Aug 21 2006, 08:49 PM
Interesting post, and thanks for the reply 
Posted by: Shrike30 Aug 24 2006, 05:13 PM
CP2020 managed to hold a really hard cyberpunk edge that I just couldn't maintain with SR. Maybe it was the hit-location, shock/stun based combat, maybe it was the cyberpsychosis, rather than essence, maybe it was the cyber-heavy/full-borg world, maybe it was the 13-year-old mallrats with the one-shot 13mm APFSDS in their purses right next to their lipstick being kissed on the head by their parents before they go to school, but there's a violent, urban intensity to CP2020 that never felt quite there for me in SR.
Maybe running my next string of games in Hong Kong (rather than Seattle, which I live in and know well) will shift that, but as much fun as I have running SR, CP's always felt like a harder-edged game.
Posted by: Critias Aug 24 2006, 06:13 PM
I think it comes down to magic, really. As much as Shadowrun can have that gritty edge to it -- just check out my fiction, you'll see how I like my SR -- it always feels like you almost have to push magic to one side a little bit, to get that same street-level feel.
Magic can and should be just one more thing "not quite right" about the dystopian future. It's supposed to be one more thing seperating the haves from the have nots, one more thing The Man uses to keep people down. One more thing the Talented few use to live an easy life while the masses starve underneath their Italian leather shoes.
Instead...it just...doesn't. For some reason. In some way. Maybe it's healing magic. If they got rid of Treat and Heal, maybe I wouldn't feel like it wrecked the grittiness so much. Maybe if you couldn't just cast a spell (and get a little headache from it) to close up that sucking chest wound, magic wouldn't bug me like it does.
Posted by: SL James Aug 24 2006, 06:43 PM
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| Magic can and should be just one more thing "not quite right" about the dystopian future. It's supposed to be one more thing seperating the haves from the have nots, one more thing The Man uses to keep people down. One more thing the Talented few use to live an easy life while the masses starve underneath their Italian leather shoes. |
Gee, maybe it's because the fiction has never in any way described it being used as such--even in a fascist magocracy like Tir Tairngire.
Nah... That couldn't be it.
Posted by: SpasticTeapot Aug 25 2006, 07:43 PM
I, if I were to GM another game, would severely nerf magic. Heal and Treat would both have drain codes so high that a sponge the size of New Glarus could'nt soak the drain, and mind control would be a huge PITA, and/or a plot device only.
Of course, the "bad guys" would have even less magic. Wizards would be rare, and they'd pop up in unusual situations; those with a good amount of power would generally keep to themselves. Think more along the lines of the Houngan in Count Zero; they're powerful, but they aren't exactly heading security teams.
There is an important thing one must remember about all modern, or near-modern, RPGs of at least slight realism: You can die easily from having a big weight dropped on you. A sword or HMG is not necessary to defeat a bulletproof opponent-just squish him, or use halon to suffocate him.
I remember listening to a guy who played Werewolf. He went into a long description of how the BBEG had a magic cold-iron armband of regeneration which made him nearly invincible.
My solution?
1. Steal huey.
2. Steal electromagnet from scrapyard crane, and a portable turbine generator.
3. Drive BBEG to a frenzy with harmless damage. Preferably, do so with aluminum weaponry, and in the nude.
4. Run. Lead BBEG under electromagnet.
5. Fire up electromagnet.
6. Watch BBEG hang in mid-air.
7. Drop him into a foundry.
8. Profit.
You can efficiently defeat most opponents by renting a Huey and dropping a three-ton granite block on them. If it does'nt kill them, it'll sure as heck keep 'em from moving. No matter how big your guns are, a chopper pilot is always deadlier.
Anything that cannot be defeated with a 3-tn granite block is best reasoned with or avoided.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 25 2006, 10:26 PM
| QUOTE (SpasticTeapot) |
| chopper pilot |
What's a motorcyclist going to do for you?
~J
Posted by: eidolon Aug 26 2006, 06:56 PM
Hardy, har, har.
Kagetenshi, because vernacular and slang don't exist.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 26 2006, 08:13 PM
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Hardy, har, har. Kagetenshi, because vernacular and slang don't exist. |
Of course they exist! That's where we got the word "chopper" from, as slang for a highly-customized or stripped-down motorcycle. It's also where we got the term "helo" from, as slang for a helicopter
~J
Posted by: eidolon Aug 27 2006, 04:54 PM
Ah thankee-sai. Perhaps in your country, slang only has one possible meaning.
I have learned much, master.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 27 2006, 07:21 PM
Slang has many meanings! For example, "chopper" also means false teeth, a member of lambda chi alpha, and a particular kind of switch. "Helo" pretty much just means helicopter, though, at least in terms of slang.
~J
Posted by: HullBreach Aug 29 2006, 01:57 AM
Just a quick warning, avoid CP 2030 like the plauge. Poopy doesn't even begin to describe it.
Posted by: SL James Aug 29 2006, 02:03 AM
The only think that really bugged me was that it is the third CP game to have a woman President of the US (eqv.) with essentially the same background.
pthbbbt
Posted by: eidolon Aug 29 2006, 01:54 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Slang has many meanings! For example, "chopper" also means false teeth, a member of lambda chi alpha, and a particular kind of switch. "Helo" pretty much just means helicopter, though, at least in terms of slang. ~J |
I know we're just tossing silly banter, but actually, I've only ever heard "helo" used in bad movies.
Maybe it's regional.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 29 2006, 02:05 PM
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| I know we're just tossing silly banter, but actually, I've only ever heard "helo" used in bad movies. Maybe it's regional. |
Hm. I've (mostly) only ever heard it from helicopter pilots, who shun the term "chopper", but they all were from the Northeast/near Midwest—it could potentially be regional.
~J
Posted by: HullBreach Aug 29 2006, 02:13 PM
I remember being told by an angry Lieutenant once to "Get in the goddamn deathtrap already" when we were taking to long to board a CH-46.
Does that count?
Posted by: eidolon Aug 29 2006, 02:22 PM
Yeah, that's why I was wondering if it was regional, because I used to talk to a few crew chiefs from Wheeler AAF when I was stationed in HI, and I never heard helo from them. Actually, I heard "bird" more than anything.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Aug 29 2006, 05:03 PM
I like 'deathtrap'.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 29 2006, 06:51 PM
"Bird" is pretty common. "Deathtrap" makes a lot of sense
Edit: they were also mostly civvies, IIRC. That might also make a difference.
~J
Posted by: JongWK Aug 31 2006, 06:18 PM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| For example, consider the percentage of the population that has 1) a halfway decent amount of money and/or health insurance and 2)arthritis. I would assume that all of these people have enhanced articulation. Not to be bad-ass, but just for treatment. |
Enhanced Articulation makes you immune to arthritis.
Posted by: eidolon Aug 31 2006, 07:58 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Edit: they were also mostly civvies, IIRC. That might also make a difference. |
Quite probably. Military jargon is its own category II language.
Posted by: cybertrucker Sep 14 2006, 11:31 PM
I will respond to the original posters question. CP2020 and Shadowrun Are both great games both fun to play in and to run. I have played shadowrun on and off since 1st edition first came out and was introduced to CP back in 1992 but was already a big fan of Mekton at the time. I will keep this to what I personally think is better from each game.
Shadowrun first since it is the game I am currently playing. Shadowrun By far has a much better background history and story. MUCH more time, thought and creativity was put into the backhistory of the world. Making the world that much more alive to play a game in. Also character Archetypes in shadowrun all fill a useful role. Alot of CP archetypes were pointless to play, or served no real useful purpose, other than for sheer roleplaying.. and finally the fantasy aspect of shadowrun if you want something like that in your game. Personally I love the blend of Magic and machine, and shadowrun has done a very good job at creating a system that that blend works well with.
Onto CP2020. Overall I honestly have to say that the game system itself is faster, simpler, and easier to run. Which I honestly like. I love the hit location system. It gives a reason why your character might need to go out and invest in that cyber arm other than the fact that I just want the bonus from it. In shadowrun your character can be taken down quickly if their not smart I like the realism that both systems have over the traditional HP system. However I believe that as deadly as Shadowrun can be. CP can be 5 times more deadly. I think they have the best Armor system ever created with their staged penetration. A system that works and is realistic.
So to sum it up. For backstory, character selection and the ability to have magic in the world shadowrun wins in those departments. I would have to give overall game mechanics for simplicity and fun to CP2020. I think alot of the revisions in SR4 actually come from looking at CP2020... with the way apposed tests are handled in combat etc etc. Shadowrun can be kind of burdensome with all the dice. and counting hits.
Both games however are great fun. I developed a magic system for CP a few years back well started developing one I should say. If I was to run the game again though I have thought about alot of ways to update character generation and archetype selection. However right now I will just stick with Shadowrun. I have been running a game every other saturday now since February and my group is having fun.
Mechanics CP
World Shadowrun
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