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Dumpshock Forums _ General Gaming _ Game violence

Posted by: Buzzed Nov 11 2003, 07:17 PM

http://games.slashdot.org/games/03/10/22/1510223.shtml

This is a sad sad state of affairs, a prime example of how the lawsuit system is rediculous and should be controlled.

If, and I stress IF the parents win this lawsuit, what would be the fate of role playing games? I pretend I shoot something, I decide to shoot someone for real, now someone sues a company for my actions.

Dont worry, this lawsuit won't fly with the judge... I hope.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 11 2003, 08:06 PM

Given that the attempt to implicate id Software failed, I doubt we're at significant risk.

~J

Posted by: easytohate Nov 11 2003, 11:22 PM

*shakes head*
lol
Do parents sue the corps in shadowrun after thier kid flips out after 1 too many violent sims?

Posted by: Tanka Nov 11 2003, 11:52 PM

Next year's sourcebook! UCAS Cases!

Posted by: Voorhees Nov 12 2003, 06:33 AM

Sure, they sue, but then the Corp just has them 'quieted', or something.

Posted by: nezumi Nov 12 2003, 01:20 PM

Don't forget, the chances of an RPG even drawing attention in the first place is about equal to (Number of people who play given RPG) * ( (percentage of people who are stupid/psychotic enough to go on a killing spree) - (percentage of psychotic people who don't like to read or don't have enough friends to start an RPG) ) %. Video games will always be higher up on the list of people to sue than RPGs, they're more graphic and more dedicated to a single purpose.

Posted by: Bob the Ninja Nov 13 2003, 11:46 AM

Meh. Console games are the nest EVIL-CORRUPTING-the YOUTH fad. We've seen comics, rock music, and D&D/RPGs take hits before. It'll pass and something elso will take a hit.

My guess is on fluffy bunnies.

Posted by: Lindt Nov 13 2003, 06:20 PM

No, consoles ARE the evil that rots the world. Cause no one puts out really good PC games anymore. Look how long it too for Vice City to hit PC!

Posted by: Snow_Fox Nov 21 2003, 10:54 PM

Goddess forbid that parents should actually take an interest in what they're kids do before they should up a Mchughes or something. The parents of the Columbine kids from the start have denied they did anything wrong by not keeping track of what their kids were doing and actually sued the police becasue the police didn't tell them their kids were showing an interest in weird stuff!

RPG's are pretty safe, even violent ones because it's all in your imagination. In a video game you all actually push a button and see the blood or what ever.

Posted by: Tanka Nov 21 2003, 10:58 PM

Technicality: Violence does not spawn violence. Lack of understanding and not taking the time to find a better way does.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 21 2003, 11:13 PM

There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of enough violence.

~J

Posted by: Tanka Nov 21 2003, 11:31 PM

True, but is it the best way? If in an example of school violence: Could the event have been prevented if the kids had, instead of firing shots, fired words back, or even talked to a Counselor? Most likely. Although, if they fired words back, there still might have been a shooting... (In the case of Columbine, for instance.)

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 21 2003, 11:56 PM

I never stated anything about the desirability of the use of violence, but I like to be clear that in all circumstances, violence is an answer.
There are often better answers, especially since people often fail to apply said violence in a proper manner, or lack the ability to provide sufficient violence in a timely fashion.

~J

Posted by: Shadow Nov 22 2003, 12:17 AM

If were going to talk about violence lets talk about the violence that spawns almost all these school shootings.

Let's talk about kids afraid to go to the bathroom because they'll get there head flushed in a used toilet.

Let's talk about the kids who get the crap kicked out of 'em every day at lunch 'cause they look different.

Let's talk about the girls who are abused physically and emotionally.

Let's talk about all these things before we talk about School shooting. Kids taking guns to school and blowing away some jocks is a direct response to the issues above. Solve that, and you wont have any more school shooting.

But wait, it is so much easier to blame the parents, or the kids, or Video Games, or movies, then it is to solve the actual problem.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 22 2003, 12:21 AM

*Applause*

~J

Posted by: Fortune Nov 22 2003, 01:53 AM

Actually, let's talk about violence as it relates to Shadowrun, or this thread will soon be closed.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 22 2003, 02:27 AM

QUOTE (Fortune)

Actually, let's talk about violence as it relates to Shadowrun, or this thread will soon be closed.

No, as we're in the "General Gaming" forum.

~J

Posted by: Tanka Nov 22 2003, 02:31 AM

Hurrah to Shadow. Absolutely correct. I semi-rescind my commentary and allow Shadow to be the speaker of obvious from now on. Or until we leave this thread.

As for relating to games and violence... There is no relation unless the subject has some severe mental problems, in which case they've probably already been diagnosed and is (hopefully) getting the proper treatment/room.

I'm not saying crazy people should be locked up/treated, but I am saying those with problems that could make them think video games and real life are related need some serious checking in to.

And young children don't count.

Posted by: Fortune Nov 22 2003, 03:04 AM

QUOTE (Kagetenshi)

QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 21 2003, 08:53 PM)

Actually, let's talk about violence as it relates to Shadowrun, or this thread will soon be closed.

No, as we're in the "General Gaming" forum.

You're right, which only means that the topic needs to relate to gaming in general, as opposed to rants about violence in society as a whole.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 22 2003, 03:08 AM

That's accurate.

So, how 'bout that Quake III?
Connections between video games and violence: Halo makes me want to hurt people badly.

~J

Posted by: Vagabond Nov 22 2003, 03:53 AM

Victims... aren't we all?

My answer to school shootings is this: let the teacher who are willing take an extensive gun use/safety course and then carry their own weapons. Kids will be less apt to open fire if half the facilty has a chance to return fire.

As for the lawsuit? I believe the US government should adapt a "loser pays" policy when it comes to civil lawsuits. That way you can sue whomever you want for whatever reason, but if you don't win you have to pay the other side's legal fees. I bet that will cut down these frivilous lawsuits down to nothing real quick. Too bad I'm not in charge...

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 22 2003, 03:55 AM

The problem with that is that people like me would take the guns just to demonstrate that arming the teachers just doesn't work. It's like arming pilots; all it takes is one slip and you've just armed whoever they were armed against.

~J

Posted by: Crusher Bob Nov 22 2003, 04:23 AM

So there the team was, bloody and battered, 3 bodies in the trunk of the war-wagen, and riding home from a fine nights work. Then some punk kids with a .22 randomly shoot at you?. The corp must really be scraping the bottom of the response team barrel to send this your way...

Posted by: Tanka Nov 22 2003, 04:50 AM

I disagree with the "loser-pays-all" theory. It might sound good... However, you have to remember that sometimes, the court rules like they're a bunch of idiots. This tends to make up stupid rulings that the person who should've won now has to pay for.

Posted by: Voorhees Nov 22 2003, 10:04 AM

If Video Games affected people, Japan would be a nation of murderous psychopaths.

I like saying that, although I know its not the issue here.

Posted by: moosegod Nov 22 2003, 07:11 PM

Japan is just a bunch of subdued muderous psychopaths.

Posted by: Tanka Nov 22 2003, 07:13 PM

<ontopic> I've been playing a lot of Planescape: Torment and Red Faction 2 lately. Do either of these games make me want to kill zombies and nano-people, respectively? Nope, not a bit. Although, a few customers where I work I wouldn't mind... *cough*

Posted by: Vagabond Nov 23 2003, 01:18 AM

QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 22 2003, 03:55 AM)

And just how many people are there like you, K? I've been police for 2 years now and the people that really know martial arts that i've dealt with are always cooperative. Most real martial artists know self-discipline. The rest just would rather brag about how good they are.

As for the actual theory, I did say proper training. This would include- but no be limited to- the 21 ft. rule. I promise you at 21 feet I can kill you deader than dead before you can even think about grabbing my gun. I study martial arts too and I know how to disarm people as well- so I know a thing or two about a thing or two.

As for the loser-pays vs. a dumb court system. That's the exception rather than the rule. Sure on TV it happens all the time, but I'm sick of people getting their legal information from tv. Anyway, my response to that is this: the appeal process. I never said do away with that and there's always the possibility of taking to a higher court.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 23 2003, 03:02 AM

Ok, proper training works.
I have self-restraint, or at least like to think I do. I also have endless supplies of disdain for the idiocy of measures meant to increase security rather than decrease.
I also did not mean to say that I would beat up a teacher and take their gun. That would be silly, and much as I like proving points, the consequences would outweigh the benefits. I still believe that if such a system were put in place, odds are that the teachers would provide plenty of opportunities for their guns to be taken nonviolently.

~J

Edit: as for the 21-foot rule, it's entirely accurate; that's why you don't start fights outside 21 feet. Unless the teacher starts to enforce a "personal space bubble", you just aren't going to be able to count on 21 or even 15 feet.