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Posted by: Greaser13 Nov 12 2003, 08:15 PM

A lengthy thread on Ataris' ToEE forums prompted me to come here and ask the question we've been discussing: Will there ever be another Shadowrun Video Game? Being a PC RPG fan and a retired Shadowrun player, it would be awesome if a talented company was to get rights to do a new one. The mixture of Fantasy/SciFi/Real world setting and depth of the game world is ripe for it. Any thoughts?

The Atari thread is here fo rany interested:

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331122&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

Posted by: Synner Nov 12 2003, 09:12 PM

Microsoft holds the rights which basically rules out the "talented company" and much as I'd like to see an SR game, I'd like to see it done well or not at all.

Posted by: The_Purge Nov 12 2003, 09:35 PM

I am one of many people that would like to seee Shadowrun made into a PC game that would give it the justice which it deserves. I personally know of about 20 gamers that would buy the game in a heartbeat. I am sure that each one of them knows people and so on. I have been talking for years about this issue to random EB employees and pitching others about making up the basics. I would be willing to help out any way i could. Lets get this done, it would be a sweet game and might make us a few quids.

Posted by: moosegod Nov 12 2003, 09:45 PM

I don't know. First of all, no one on that board knew what they were talking about. Secondly, how can you maintain the Shadowrun universe in a computer?

Posted by: nezumi Nov 12 2003, 09:48 PM

You'd get stuck on copyright infringement. M$ holds the rights to the game, and if you just made an SR game for profit, they could sue you (they probably wouldn't though, since you wouldn't have much money to get and they're might keen on working on their public image).

There are SR MU*s however. And as far as I'm aware, no one currently holds the license to Cyberpunk, so you could probably make a video game based off of that without anyone complaining.

Posted by: Large Mike Nov 12 2003, 09:49 PM

One of two ways. These can both be exemplefied by other games.

Morrowind, and FFXI. These both seem like very valid options to me.

Posted by: Greaser13 Nov 12 2003, 09:56 PM

Microsoft could, if it wanted, farm out those rights to someone like BlackIsle and make a perfectly suitable game. It's differences from PnP would be many, but anyone whos played Baldurs gate, Jagged Alliance 2, Fallout or the like could very quickly envision Shadowruns translation to the tactical RPG style. And of course, theres no way to make it without MS approval. I guess what I was looking for is to see if anyone had heard of any rumblings on the possibility of it becoming reality.

Posted by: nezumi Nov 12 2003, 10:03 PM

No, I haven't heard any rumblings and it appears as though all the prodding anxious gamers has done has not led to anything. HOWEVER, M$ did do a good job with Mechwarrior and has made some other excellent games. They focused a lot more on games last year and the year before and with Wizkids making their SR heroclix collection, we can only hope that'll bring up some interest in SR again. Keep your fingers crossed : ) (I do note however that there is a woeful lack of cyberpunk games in general. Fallout is the only one made in the last ten years that I think is really worth mentioning. This is discounting FPS's.)

Posted by: moosegod Nov 12 2003, 10:07 PM

I wouldn't call Fallout cyberpunk.

Posted by: Casazil Nov 12 2003, 10:19 PM

If someone does Shadowrun it needs to be online as well sorta like Everquest. Why do I say that simple I hate being led around by the nose in an rpg while I loved the FF titles you had very little choice to do what you wanted. If this gets done online then they could keep it fresh and quite possibly in real time I.E. you play for an hour and an hour goes by in the game world. Now of course there is a down side to this idea they will more than likely charge you to play on top of buying the game. While that is an idea that I hate I must say that being a major fan of Shadowrun I would more than likely shell out the Nuyen for it where as I don't and won't for Everquest.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 12 2003, 10:24 PM

I've had ideas for how to do something like this; am contemplating something on the order of a massive Quake III mod, but probably lack the ability to pull it off. Regardless, it would be a massive undertaking for a potentially very limited audience, so it probably won't happen.

~J

Posted by: nezumi Nov 12 2003, 10:55 PM

It's funny how we already have people going down three totally different directions on where they'd like their dream SR game to go... Maybe someone should make a post about it.

If M$ decides to make an SR game, I'd assume it would be a tactical/rpg game, more the style of fallout than anything. It doesn't seem to have a big enough audience to justify MMORPG (which has ongoing costs) and an FPS would simply butcher it.

Posted by: Greaser13 Nov 12 2003, 11:21 PM

I agree, and I think that the tactical aspects of the gameplay would be best served in the top down format.

Posted by: Tanka Nov 12 2003, 11:42 PM

The huge problem with going FPS would be supporting different ammo, melee, and all kinds of other stuff. I could kind of see how UT went with the sword, but that's way too cheap for my tastes. RPG would be the way to go, able to pick class at the beginning, then buy upgrades and such.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 13 2003, 12:26 AM

I disagree. You could potentially do it with FPS given enough planning, enough work, enough non-FPS sections, and enough time spent before the game started in chargen. Hell, Deus Ex worked, and they didn't implement a huge range of possible things.
On the other hand, my idea doesn't work in the least for a commercial game, and won't for several years, as it is dependent on being a multiplayer coop game.

~J

Edit: I may make a post about this if it ever gets going, but our idea is an iterative design process. At first we'd only make Shadowrun-style weapons in a Quake III world, then change the damage to SR-style, then start making different race effects, etc. etc. etc.
Things like rigging, decking, and magic would take a lot longer, but would be workable. Melee would actually work very nicely; it could be made perfectly like the Shadowrun style, with the exception that we'd probably just make the attack unresisted if the target was wielding a firearm. More reason to put away your gun when that troll brings his battleaxe into your face.

Posted by: Tanka Nov 13 2003, 12:28 AM

I just feel FPS couldn't do it much justice. The only room for growth is on your side of the server. Your skill only. The character doesn't increase in skill/talent as you play him/her more.

Now, if you could somehow do a randomization that gives you better odds as you play them longer... That'd be just sweet.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 13 2003, 12:30 AM

Oh, we'd be implementing the full skillset eventually. This wouldn't be intended as a massive multiplayer thing, just for groups of people working together. A lot of it would have to be very honor-systemish, so it's probably a throwback to the days of LAN-only gaming, but it'd still be cool.

~J

Posted by: Tanka Nov 13 2003, 12:47 AM

Honor system? Yikes! Good luck.

Although, it does sound interesting. If you get it done and (once I get a better PC) I'm willing to beta-test if you need me to.

Posted by: Casazil Nov 13 2003, 12:57 AM

Ok I have to say I don't know what FPS is but I will assume it has to do with online gaming. So question:

If the game were made how much would you pay for it?

If you had to pay to play online (yuck) how much would you be willing to put out to play say per month?

This is of course dependant on the quality of the game, the game world, and the options for you as a gamer to use.

Posted by: Tanka Nov 13 2003, 01:04 AM

FPS = First Person Shooter
RTS = Real Time Strategy
I'll assume you know what RPG/MMORPG is.

As for paying for it if it came out in stores... Depending on the quality, anywhere from $5 (horrible) to $40 (great). I would not, however, pay for online. I have enough troubles worrying about where my next paycheck is going than worrying if I can play this month or not.

Posted by: easytohate Nov 13 2003, 01:05 AM

I think an open ended chargen system like fallout, or even arcanum. (Both had the same development team).

But I think ultimately I would like to see something for Shadowrun like Neverwinter Nights. Combine a single playergame with private hostable RPG's. Let people run their own rooms, own mods as needed. Sure they would have to strip the game a little (simplify the rules) but I think it would be fun to play and ultimately do the game justice by allowing people to ST their own games, without the static perpetualness of MMORPG.

I think the hardest thing to do by far would be V. riggers, drone riggers would be easy... but scaling the game to accommodate vehicles is something that as far as i know hasn't been managed properly in an RPG. I can't imagine anything else that would be incredibly difficult.

Overall, it's still up to M$ to shell out the money to develop the game. I don't see why they wouldn't however, games are put out all the time with a whole lot less to go on. I think it would just be a matter of someone in the position to greenlight the project realizing the potential.

Posted by: Tanka Nov 13 2003, 01:06 AM

Riggers would be hard to work on, but not impossible. I think Deckers/Security Riggers would be just as difficult. Not many games have had much to do with the computerish aspects, like Decking/Security Rigging would be.

Posted by: Wish Nov 13 2003, 01:19 AM

I would prefer to see a game done along the lines of the Temple of Elemental Evil game. Turn based is good.

Posted by: moosegod Nov 13 2003, 01:46 AM

tanka- you could use sculpted systems to make decking like anything else, just with different pools, etc.

Posted by: Digital Heroin Nov 13 2003, 02:08 AM

Posted by: danbot37 Nov 13 2003, 02:25 AM

Ever playVampire:The Masquerade on computer? I know, I know, its WOD and all, but it was actually a good translation of dice-to-comp rpg. Ok single player campaign, but the good part was the multiplayer... would have four pc's and a gm, and the gm could create/populate the game as he needed, beforehand and on the fly, control all npc's (even inanimate objects as necessary) and the conversations or automate them, pause the game as necessary to deal with surprise situations, and control the xp awarded to the chars. Would work great, if heavily modified of course, I think anyway

Posted by: nezumi Nov 13 2003, 02:59 AM

I had only heard bad reviews of Vampire, honestly. I've never really gotten into it to begin with (the only group here which does it is LARP), so I didn't feel especially compelled to pick it up.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 13 2003, 04:04 AM

The reason it'd be honor system is because it'd never be intended for someone to just set up a server and have random people wander in. This'd be meant for a group of friends to all get together and play.
That and anything else would be insane, logistically.
If we ever do it we'll put the code out there, because the idea is cool. Really, though, this would be something written for us, not to have open servers playing ShadowrunQIII all over the internet.

~J

Posted by: Tanka Nov 13 2003, 04:09 AM

This is very true, however, I'm sure you'd want somebody to test the really weird things that may only come up once or twice a year in any game. For example... When somebody decides to throw a rubber bullet instead of shooting it (Troll with Int 1? ;p). Might want somebody to test that to make sure the game doesn't go "Irk! What to do?!"

Posted by: Buzzed Nov 13 2003, 04:55 AM

My input. Forget all those above mentioned formats. The format that would do the most justice would be the GTA format! Skycrapers, cars, guns. The 3 backbones of Shadowrun Seattle. Add Flight Simulator support and water environments, some matrix. Alternate skins for everything for vision modes and Astral projection. You are good to go.

Oh yeah, keep combat turn based like the book.

If you think about it. GTA is kind of like Shadowrun. Run around doing whatever you want, meet some contacts/Johnsons for some runs.... Don't get me wrong though, I don't want to see Shadowrun become another GTA. Start from scratch, with GTA in mind as an inspiration and the focus being the books.

I would like to see the game using 3rd ed rules but start with the 1st edition time setting. This would allow for the metaplot that predated the currently printed books. It would be fun to see some of the old out-of-print runs come to life on the screen.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 13 2003, 05:41 AM

Oh yes. If we ever get it functional we'll certainly be using people from around here for testing. I was just explaining why we had no qualms about having a hideously insecure method of karma-tracking, once we eventually implement that.

~J

Posted by: NeO_ZeN Nov 13 2003, 02:02 PM

If only someone would make a Shadowrun mod for Battlefield 1942....

Call it Battlefield 2063....



Axis = [insert corp here]
Allies = Shadowrunners

Posted by: Platzy Nov 13 2003, 04:16 PM

Ah, the ever reappearing SR-Computergame threads...

Almost 2 years ago I stumbled on a link in this forum that led me to http://www.neocron.com.

It is clearly inspired by SR but has evolved int oa game of its own.
I like it as it has the most SR like feel of all current Online Game known to me.

Posted by: Buzzed Nov 13 2003, 05:09 PM

Posted by: Tanka Nov 13 2003, 05:12 PM

P2P bad... But it does say it has an offline mode.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 13 2003, 05:13 PM

Eww... why? The only reason for anything to be P2P is security (to prevent easy dismantling of the network).
Well... I suppose there's also to prevent having to have an expensive server.

~J

Posted by: Tanka Nov 13 2003, 05:30 PM

$30 for a month? Uh-uh.

I can easily enjoy a game in offline mode, as long as it is well-developed and rounded-out. Don't want a Dragon coming over after I've played for a few hours and eating me.

Posted by: Buzzed Nov 13 2003, 08:43 PM

Doesnt matter, I can't download from Gamespy anyway.

Posted by: Platzy Nov 14 2003, 01:09 PM

Um... - no. 30$ seems more like the initial buy-cost.

Yes, as a MMORPG there is a monthly fee, but it ranges more around between 7-10$ - depending on your payment intevals (discount if you decide to hook up for 6 months right up front)

The only offline-aspect is a 1 year old offline-demo - but it's fun nonetheless and free to dl from the HP mentioned above.

Posted by: Buzzed Nov 15 2003, 02:22 AM

Anyway we can set up a petition for a Shadowrun computer turn based rpg somewhere and eventually e-mail the petition link to some key players over at Microsoft?

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 15 2003, 03:24 PM

Plenty of ways. Not going to do anything, though.

~J

Posted by: Buzzed Nov 15 2003, 05:05 PM

Posted by: Kagetenshi Nov 15 2003, 05:16 PM

Petitions in general are iffy because of their relative lack of verifiability; online petitions exponentially more so. Not only that, but most likely the largest pool of people you could get for this petition is the union of groups Shadowrun Players and Computer RPG Players, which isn't that large. You can add a small number who wouldn't play but would want to see it made anyway, but then you have to cut by the number of people who wouldn't actually see the poll. We're not going to have the numbers to make an impression on a corp like Microsoft.

~J

Posted by: MYST1C Nov 16 2003, 01:31 PM

Posted by: Tiralee Nov 17 2003, 03:45 PM

Ok, some ideas here, seeing as I've played an awful LOT of games, and don't see them being mentioned>

Deus Ex - Ok, so I mentioned it already on another thread, but it's a futuristic distopia with nano-augmentation and a pile of easily-moddable combat and stealth skills. Not to mention one of the more engrossingly-painful games I've played. You know how hard it was - and how LONG it took - for me to stop shooting people on general principle?

I remember when it first came out and how a few people were modding it a little, basically bringing in a HMG. (something that I felt was a glaring omission) but it's been a while since I reseached it, so, yeah.

Dungeon Siege - One of the most underrated of Micro$oft's stables. I think that the engine could do so damn much, people were scared of tinkering because they weren't sure what would come out. (Oh, and I kick-ass as a Sith Dark Master. And that chicken mod. Gods.)

Deus and Dungeon are, for certain, single-player only mods. Turn based -

Neverwinter Nights. Ok, so, yeah, I like DnD too. But it's a good'n'funky game... but the engine... Hell, if you could combine Arcanium with Dungeon Siege, it'd make people wet themselves.

Problems? Vehicles - how to impliment? The Siege engine would be an easy work-around, it's so bloody open-ended you could throw in sub-orbitals and get away with it.

Races - This equals skins and models, both of which neverwinter has. Well, except for the whole "I'm a sammy, so why am I all the same colour, and where are the tell-tale LEDs?"

Places - Dungeon Siege again, had some great holes, sewers and temple-ish areas, and a few steam-punk areas. Everything else would need a lot of talented artists.

Items: Ok, since Shadowrun IS a futuristic distopia, I want NERPS signs, drunken orcs (Not waving a battleaxe +1, either.) the Anchients on bikes, Lonestar on patrol and T-birds to make the Lonestar go away. I want "Syndicate" with Magic and Trolls.

Magic: Well, again with the Siege. You want it - you nuke it.

Another engine I forgot, idiot me - Freedom Force! (Aussie! Aussie! Aussie! OI! Oi! Oi!)

Need to play with things to convert from washed-and-scrubbed 50's-nostalga-night-Superheroes-with-perms to "dank-and-evil-Seattle, 2060's..." but it's got a team and turn-based environment.

Not to mention the joy of watching a Cybered Troll Street-sam yank a fire-hydrant out of the street (Difficulty 9, situational modifers applied?) and throw it along into the fire-fight...

Deal is - unless someone comes along with a made-to-order engine, (Morrowwind is ok, but the number of actors would slow things down to a chunky slide-show. And yes, finished it too, along with the Tribunal expansion pack, damn but that was nasty....) and a lot of dedicated creators who were also shadowrun nut-jobs, chances are it'd turn out like C'n'C Renegade. Ok to play for a while, but a little...weak.

Actually, if you could rip some of the models from Renegade...now, there's the transport taken care of....

My rant endith.

L.

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Nov 26 2003, 09:35 AM

how does M$ own the rights to it anyway?

Posted by: Fortune Nov 26 2003, 09:38 AM

FASA sold them to Microsoft, along with the rights to produce Battletech and Mechwarrior.

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Nov 26 2003, 09:43 AM

so microsoft owns the right to shadowrun? thats just f$@ked.
you will not believe how much i hate bill.

Posted by: Fortune Nov 26 2003, 10:14 PM

No! Microsoft owns the interactive computer game rights. Not the rights to the actual RPG itself.

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Nov 28 2003, 01:45 AM

i know that

Posted by: Makeshift Surgeon Dec 5 2003, 01:18 AM

I thought the first Vampire CRPG, Redemption by Nihilistic Software, was crap. Vampire is a game of politics and they turned it into an action title. But I'm not going into that right now.
The thought of a Shadowrun video game seems impossible at the moment because of numerous reasons, though I think there are two main reasons why it hasn't happened yet: it would take a long time to produce a game that was able to include everything present within the SR universe and most Game Designers would be unwilling or unable to take on such a project because of the game's complexity. Most good game designers are afraid to stray from the first rule of game design which is KISS meaning Keep it Simple, Stupid. And those who aren't afraid of breaking said rule have probably already been fired because they took too many things too far and ended up slaughting some game title. It's sad to see the games industry in such a possition where most designers are unwilling or unable to take the steps to create a game that is revolutionary rather than just evolutionary.
At least until recently. Troika's staff has done some excellent work in the past on such titles as Fallout, Arcanum, and more recently, the Temple of Elemental Evil (so long as one doesn't mind the consistant game crashes). While their games aren't perfect from a more technical standpoint, they've shown the ability to create beautiful and unique worlds filled with interesting characters.
One of their current projects is a Vampire: the Masquerade title called, "Bloodlines," which promises to hold true to the original Vampire game unlike Redemption where one could run in front of a bunch of cops, carrying a minigun without worry of being attacked...Or so says PC Gamer, though a gaming website called Game Banshee is making different claims.
Regardless, the latest Vampire title promises all the usual weapons one can find in any other First Person Shooter, but also has the addition of Vampiric powers or Disciplines.
Now, Vampire may be an entirely different game from Shadowrun, but I'm certain that the game and engine wouldn't need that much modding to make a good Shadowrun Total Conversion. I've been toying the possibility on leading such a project, though seeing as how I have no experience modding video games...
Eh, we'll see.

Posted by: Harlequin565 Dec 5 2003, 12:12 PM

For those that may be interested, there is a work in progress to create a d20 modern setting on the Neverwinter Nights engine. A little imagination and creative thinking could probably set up a Shadowrun world using that..

http://d20.gravemistakes.com/index.php

I know it would be using the d20 system, but for me Shadowrun is all about the story and Roleplaying rather than the rules.

-H

Posted by: Pistons Dec 5 2003, 03:50 PM

Posted by: The Jake Dec 20 2003, 02:24 AM

http://www.petitiononline.com/shdrun03/petition.html

Just shut up and sign the petition everyone.

- J.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 20 2003, 02:37 AM

Ooh, shiny, we can put our names on something that is intended for two groups, one of which no longer exists and the other of which could care less and probably receives thousands of petitions a year, if not a month.

~J the cynic

Posted by: Adam Dec 20 2003, 03:30 AM

"FASA Game Studio" still exists; it's a division of Microsoft. "FASA Corporation" -- the former book publisher -- also still exists, but only on paper, really. They still own some properties [Earthdawn, which they bought back from WizKids for some reason..., for example]

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 20 2003, 06:39 AM

Ah, thanks

~J

Posted by: The Jake Dec 21 2003, 03:17 AM

I have a friend who works at MS and he says that they do listen to petitions for things like this.

- J.

Posted by: Diesel Dec 21 2003, 09:13 AM

I think I'm going to end my posts like you guys too.

> J

Posted by: Kagetenshi Dec 21 2003, 04:55 PM

Sounds good. We can infect Dumpshock.

~J

Posted by: Fortune Dec 21 2003, 11:03 PM

Do you think that's wise?

J!