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Dumpshock Forums _ General Gaming _ D&D 4th Edition, or something else?
Posted by: JongWK Aug 16 2007, 01:34 AM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd
Posted by: Fortune Aug 16 2007, 01:52 AM
Strange
Posted by: Meriss Aug 16 2007, 02:33 AM
How very, very, odd. Anybody know the release dates on 3.5?
Edit: Rpg.net semi confirmation. 4th ed D&D. You know they're just doing cause that's waht all the cool kids are doing. 
Posted by: Galedeep Aug 16 2007, 06:54 AM
Oh, good lord. They're about to piss off a lot of people.
*shrug*
Oh well.
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 16 2007, 07:10 AM
Meriss - I think somewhere around 2000. I know I lived in San Jose at the time, and I moved from there in '02. Not the most technical means I'm sure, but that's what I recall. 'course I could try out my google-fu. But I just don't care enough.
Anyawy, as I recall, isn't 5-7 years kid of standard for an edition? 3,5 was kind of a fluke there.
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Aug 16 2007, 07:13 AM
No, that's not standard at all in a genre where there are no standards. If it were, D&D should be at something ridiculous like the 8th Edition or something, for instance, and Shadowrun wouldn't be far behind.
I'm rather indifferent about the topic as I haven't played or even thought about playing D&D since, well, not long after 3rd Edition came out. Will be interesting to see what they consider a new edition, though, and to listen to them explain why it was needed considering the whole d20 System license bit.
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 16 2007, 07:18 AM
| QUOTE |
| and to listen to them explain why it was needed considering the whole d20 System license bit. |
yeah that should be good!
Posted by: Fuchs Aug 16 2007, 07:51 AM
We still play 3E in our group. I'd say "I'll stick to it"; but I was sceptical when I heard of 3E, and I switched as soon as I read the PHB.
Posted by: Grinder Aug 16 2007, 08:33 AM
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204119
Well, I don't care much for a 4th edition - I have all 3.5 books I need to run my Iron Kingdoms campaign. 
Posted by: Ophis Aug 16 2007, 02:35 PM
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| No, that's not standard at all in a genre where there are no standards. If it were, D&D should be at something ridiculous like the 8th Edition or something, for instance, and Shadowrun wouldn't be far behind. I'm rather indifferent about the topic as I haven't played or even thought about playing D&D since, well, not long after 3rd Edition came out. Will be interesting to see what they consider a new edition, though, and to listen to them explain why it was needed considering the whole d20 System license bit. |
Nah D&D would be be some 6-7th ed (original '74 33 years ago)
Shadowrun would be on 4th ('89 so 18 years)
Given the D&D/Ad&D thing those numbers seem right (as D&D had 4 editions (maybe 5) and AD&D is on 3.5 so far)
Posted by: KarmaInferno Aug 16 2007, 04:35 PM
There was a brief period yesterday where an admin board was left wide open for public viewing. It contained a full 4th Edition message board with a dozen or so starter topics for discussion.
It looked like they were prepping and getting the board ready, and forgot to lock it. It got shut down right when I was starting to post links.
Supposedly at GenCon this morning they made an official announcement.
-karma
Posted by: Grinder Aug 16 2007, 05:03 PM
Yeah.... forgot to lock it.... sure.
Posted by: Casazil Aug 16 2007, 05:47 PM
Not that I have any real source of info to provide other than rumor but..... It was like a month age I heard that 4th was coming out soon. Also the rumor is they are going to stop the open game licence stuff as well.
As has been stated Gencon is the time to make official announcements so I guess we'll see.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 16 2007, 07:27 PM
| QUOTE (Galedeep) |
| Oh, good lord. They're about to piss off a lot of people. *shrug* Oh well. |
...damn straight. Personally I'm just disappointed, I like 3.5 the way it is but I don't play it all that often to warrant buying more than just the three core books, a couple of Forgotten Realms source books and Oriental Adventures.
However, got a couple of friends with pretty hefty investments in 3.5, and a lot of those books aren't cheap.
...I think I can hear them screaming and cursing now.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 16 2007, 07:40 PM
With luck, it's a rebranded original D&D, so we can get rid of this ridiculous "class/race separation".
~J
Posted by: farrenj Aug 16 2007, 07:49 PM
I hope for something that looks similar to the new Star Wars rules.
Posted by: Ophis Aug 16 2007, 07:55 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| With luck, it's a rebranded original D&D, so we can get rid of this ridiculous "class/race separation". ~J |
Ah the heady days when Halfling was a class... with nothing going for it at all...
*Sits down and gets nostalgic about Red box D&D*
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 16 2007, 08:42 PM
| QUOTE (farrenj) |
| I hope for something that looks similar to the new Star Wars rules. |
Or the old ones.
Posted by: Meriss Aug 16 2007, 08:50 PM
Less than 2 hours to go! Someone at Gen con sneak into the announcement hall!
Posted by: KarmaInferno Aug 16 2007, 09:36 PM
| QUOTE (farrenj) |
| I hope for something that looks similar to the new Star Wars rules. |
I dunno, the new SAGA edition has parts that feel awful sloppy to me.
I'll give an example. Under Creating Droid Heros, it tells you in the rules text that you get one form of movement for free, and that adding more forms costs an increasing extra price in credits.
Over on a chart there is another set of cost formulas for movement systems, different from the one in the text.
The rules text makes no mention of the formulas in the chart. None at all.
I can tell what they probably INTEND, that the formulas in the chart are the actual base price of each movement system, and the increasing price for extra movement systems beyond the first is tacked on top of that, but nowhere is this actually spelled out.
That's just sloppy.
The whole book has stuff like this, scattered about.
From what I understand, the guys who developed the SAGA edition were freelancers hired by WotC rather than their in-house staff, but it really could have stood to gone a few more rounds of playtesting and rules-proofing.
-karma
Posted by: farrenj Aug 16 2007, 09:45 PM
While I will agree that there is some sloppiness and rules oversights, the class development is what I really like. I think it is a vast improvement over classes as DnD currently has them.
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 16 2007, 10:23 PM
Agreed. The idea that you can be a 17th level ranger, and it can take you ages to learn the first thing (1st level) about being a fighter just makes no sense.
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 16 2007, 10:34 PM
And here we are at the appointed time. I log in, and the screen saaaayyysss....
"Service Unavailable"
Posted by: Ophis Aug 16 2007, 10:34 PM
I never minded that, Fighter 1 isn't to bad a level...
More seriously as you get more skilled in one thing it becomes harder to learn new tricks.
Posted by: farrenj Aug 16 2007, 10:36 PM
Aaaaaaannnnd
the timer finishes and wizards.com goes down.
Posted by: Ophis Aug 16 2007, 10:37 PM
No I have something...
Posted by: Ophis Aug 16 2007, 10:38 PM
Not completely working...
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 16 2007, 10:50 PM
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| More seriously as you get more skilled in one thing it becomes harder to learn new tricks. |
That was the point I was trying to make, yes.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 17 2007, 12:10 AM
| QUOTE (farrenj) |
| Aaaaaaannnnd the timer finishes and wizards.com goes down. |
...and I wonder why....
Posted by: Ophis Aug 17 2007, 12:11 AM
Evil pixies are part of the answer the rest is in SoLA...
Posted by: Wounded Ronin Aug 17 2007, 12:46 AM
| QUOTE (Ophis) | ||
Ah the heady days when Halfling was a class... with nothing going for it at all... *Sits down and gets nostalgic about Red box D&D* |
The direct-tolkien-ripoff bonuses to hide were awesome because of how derivative they were. Hell, man, I really want to play 1st edition D&D again, but with a Bruce Lee Impersonator character class!
Posted by: Ophis Aug 17 2007, 12:48 AM
The Mystic from the masters set (black box) like AD&Ds monk with more WAAAAAAH!!!! (or other bruce lee noise) 16th level, on shot everything...
Posted by: Wounded Ronin Aug 17 2007, 01:14 AM
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| The Mystic from the masters set (black box) like AD&Ds monk with more WAAAAAAH!!!! (or other bruce lee noise) 16th level, on shot everything... |
I used to have the Rules Cyclopedia. I remember the Mystics. The picture for their class in the beginning of the book was ridiculous, too, featuring a woman in a formal Japanese-style kimono with a butterfly in her hair. Then she was doing the Shaolin hand-over-fist salute thing.
Damn, man, 1st edition was really all we needed!
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 17 2007, 07:31 AM
12:30 AM: Update
| QUOTE (http://announcement.wizards.com/) |
| Unfortunately, due to an extremely high load on our web servers, we have been unable to bring you our normal web content. We apologize for the inconvenience and ask that you please try again in a few hours! Our technical team is aware of the problem and working on it. Thank you for your patience! |
still
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Aug 17 2007, 07:53 AM
It was a shocking development. I mean, they tease, build up suspense, then... act surprised when the server crashes?
Posted by: Ophis Aug 17 2007, 09:22 AM
Well even at about 5 in the morning EST (I think) it's still dead teehee.
Posted by: Kalvan Aug 17 2007, 09:38 AM
Personally, I still think it's too soon for D&D Fourth Edition, by at least two years. The balance problems haven't gotten big enough, the mechanics still provide enough of a balance between quickness and simulation, and there are several area and organizational supplements they could put out before Fourth Edition (particularly for their campaign settigns) that they haven't yet.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 17 2007, 11:37 AM
But it is broke, and deeply so.
~J
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Aug 17 2007, 02:54 PM
Balance? Broken?
Look, they came out with the Complete Arcane, and then they came out with the Complete Wizard, as well as multiple books with alternate magic systems in them. If they want to keep selling rule books they either need to release the Really Really Complete Magicky Stuff This Time For Sure or they need a new edition.
It's about money. Most gaming companies struggle to maintain that healthy balance between income and love of the game. WotC has no such struggle.
Posted by: Ophis Aug 17 2007, 04:47 PM
I wonder if the new edition will still cause cancer...
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Aug 17 2007, 05:27 PM
We might need to come up with a new hilarious affliction.
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 17 2007, 06:25 PM
jaundice. it'll turn your skin the same color as that horrible page was.
You know, before it turned to a white screen that said "Service Unavaialbe". 'Cause I think that would be E.D., nobody wants that.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Aug 17 2007, 06:51 PM
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) |
| jaundice. it'll turn your skin the same color as that horrible page was. You know, before it turned to a white screen that said "Service Unavaialbe". 'Cause I think that would be E.D., nobody wants that. |
You bastard. You hilarious bastard.
Here I am, at my desk, browsing Dumpshock. My boss calls me on the phone, with nothing important to say, but damn, he sure does take the time to say it. So I'm clicking idly away, waiting for him to summarize his long, rambling nothing regarding unrequested details of a project completely unrelated to mine, and I wandered back in to this thread.
I'm lucky, he just thought his dumb story was really funny.
Posted by: Casazil Aug 17 2007, 06:53 PM
The link works now
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 17 2007, 07:46 PM
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Well even at about 5 in the morning EST (I think) it's still dead teehee. |
...should have used a preserve spell...
..wait, maybe that won't be available in 4th ed.
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Evil pixies are part of the answer the rest is in SoLA... |
..LMAO
Posted by: Kalvan Aug 17 2007, 09:06 PM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| Balance? Broken? Look, they came out with the Complete Arcane, and then they came out with the Complete Wizard, as well as multiple books with alternate magic systems in them. If they want to keep selling rule books they either need to release the Really Really Complete Magicky Stuff This Time For Sure or they need a new edition. |
They also came out with Complete Warrior and Heroes of Battle for big burly warrior types (not to mention Tome of Battle), Complete Adventurer, Complete Scoundrel, and Dungeonscape for skill monkeys and backstabbers, and Complete Divine and Complete Champion for religious types.
I personally don't think that secular spellcasters have been getting all or even a disporportionate share of the love.
I just think that it's just about a year or so too soon.
But, of course as always, YMMV.
Posted by: Fortune Aug 17 2007, 09:21 PM
| QUOTE (Kalvan) |
| I just think that it's just about a year or so too soon. |
Well, since it won't actually be out till next year, you can both be right.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Aug 17 2007, 09:23 PM
Truely, you leave me speechless.
Was my point really that badly expressed?
Yes, there are books for fighters, and divine, and everything else. There are already several books for everything. That's the point. If they want to print more books, they need a new edition, 'cause they've already made them all for 3rd edition, several times.
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 17 2007, 09:33 PM
| QUOTE |
| You bastard. You hilarious bastard. |
much love
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Aug 17 2007, 09:36 PM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| It's about money. Most gaming companies struggle to maintain that healthy balance between income and love of the game. WotC has no such struggle. |
Which is exactly why I don't play D&D any more, or knowingly purchase any WotC products.
Posted by: Nikoli Aug 17 2007, 11:33 PM
Yeah, this will kill my group buying WotC products.
Sure, it's a business, but damn, this just isn't necessary from a game standpoint.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 18 2007, 03:55 AM
...well, could always mean there may be a good market in used 3 - 3.5 stuff soon.
Been doing pretty well filling in my library of SRIII material since 4th ed came out.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Aug 20 2007, 03:28 PM
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| Yeah, this will kill my group buying WotC products. Sure, it's a business, but damn, this just isn't necessary from a game standpoint. |
Are you kidding?
Have you seen the rules bloat in 3.0/3.5? The contradicting, confusing text? I've seen game sessions end up being half rules arguements instead of actually playing.
Hell, the D&D FAQ, which is purely a document clarifying and explaining the rules, has grown larger than some of the sourcebooks.
D&D is prime for a rules update right now.
-karma
Posted by: mfb Aug 20 2007, 04:41 PM
4.0 isn't going to fix that. the rules will start bloating again, probably with the first or second splatbook.
Posted by: Doctor Funkenstein Aug 20 2007, 06:27 PM
From what I could gather from the site, they're not really interested in fixing rules bloating or anything of the sort. It's more of a delivery platform to celebrate some online tools they're trying to push, with a few minor upgrades to the system to actually facilitate even more rules bloat (like weapons having different and individual charactertics in combat).
Posted by: TheMadDutchman Aug 20 2007, 08:06 PM
I'm just sick to death of classes and levels. I don't really ever want to run another level based game again.
I love fantasy games- treasure, castles, dragons, it's all good. But when level comes into play- it just kills it for me.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 20 2007, 08:18 PM
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| From what I could gather from the site, they're not really interested in fixing rules bloating or anything of the sort. It's more of a delivery platform to celebrate some online tools they're trying to push, with a few minor upgrades to the system to actually facilitate even more rules bloat (like weapons having different and individual charactertics in combat) |
...by that last statement, sounds like they got a couple of the old FGU guys working for them. Remember Chivalry & Sorcery- the fantasy game that makes the current Shadowrun chargen look like old AD&D (before Second Ed)?
| QUOTE (TheMadDutchman) |
| I'm just sick to death of classes and levels. I don't really ever want to run another level based game again. I love fantasy games- treasure, castles, dragons, it's all good. But when level comes into play- it just kills it for me. |
...there is always Hero System's Fantasy Hero
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 20 2007, 08:38 PM
| QUOTE (TheMadDutchman) |
| I'm just sick to death of classes and levels. I don't really ever want to run another level based game again. I love fantasy games- treasure, castles, dragons, it's all good. But when level comes into play- it just kills it for me. |
Take a level in Classic Roleplayer and you'll be ok with it again.
~J
Posted by: TheMadDutchman Aug 20 2007, 08:41 PM
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...there is always Hero System's Fantasy Hero |
Actually I'm currently sticking more to rules that were home brewed for freshness when it comes to fantasy games.
I've got a friend who cooked a up a great set of rules. Interestingly they're based on D20 but w/out levels or classes.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 20 2007, 10:34 PM
...come to think of it, didn't Runequest dispense with character levels as well? I vaguely remember rolling against skills used in an adventure to improve them instead of having blanket levels to increase your abilities. I know Call of Cthulu (not the D20 version) uses the same mechanic.
I think DragonQuest also used a similar system that allowed your character to go for training to increase your skills between adventures.
Man that was a more than a quarter century since I last played either RQ or DQ. Yikes! Has it been that long?
Posted by: kzt Aug 20 2007, 11:16 PM
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...come to think of it, didn't Runequest dispense with character levels as well? I vaguely remember rolling against skills used in an adventure to improve them instead of having blanket levels to increase your abilities. I know Call of Cthulu (not the D20 version) uses the same mechanic. |
Yes, they did. CoC used a simplified version of the RQ mechanics. When I discovered RQ I began to think about RPGs in a different way and to hate the concept of character classes and levels.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 20 2007, 11:35 PM
...yeah I really miss RQ, though I occasionally have the opportunity to play CoC now & then.
...but just like the biz of Computer OS & software, it seems the inferior product gets the biggest slice of the market pie over the better one.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Aug 21 2007, 12:29 AM
Many of D&D's more controversial features (levels, classes, arguably even alignment) make more sense if you reclassify the game as a tactical wargame. This is before the "role-playing" perversions, of course.
~J
Posted by: eidolon Aug 21 2007, 04:41 PM
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| 4.0 isn't going to fix that. the rules will start bloating again, probably with the first or second splatbook. |
QFT.
Actually, strangely enough, my entire reaction to 4e is pretty much: *shrug* "Where did I put my new copy of Savage Worlds?"
Posted by: Ophis Aug 21 2007, 09:05 PM
Having thought long and hard about what disease 4th ed will cause i have realised that the disease will be quick, and efficent (or streamlined in designer speak). So I suspect 4th edtion D&D will cause Ebola.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 26 2007, 11:59 PM
| QUOTE (eidolon) | ||
QFT. Actually, strangely enough, my entire reaction to 4e is pretty much: *shrug* "Where did I put my new copy of Savage Worlds?" |
...funny coincidence, I was sitting at the coffee shop today and there were two fellows at the table next to me with the Savage Worlds - Revised book.
@Ophis, I would think the disease would be more like spontaneous cranial arterial embolism followed by massive cerebral hemorrhaging after one's blood pressure went ballistic when they just learned the thousand+ $ in rules and sourcebooks they acquired over the last few years are now worthless.
Posted by: Cthulhudreams Aug 27 2007, 01:41 AM
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) | ||||
...funny coincidence, I was sitting at the coffee shop today and there were two fellows at the table next to me with the Savage Worlds - Revised book. @Ophis, I would think the disease would be more like spontaneous cranial arterial embolism followed by massive cerebral hemorrhaging after one's blood pressure went ballistic when they just learned the thousand+ $ in rules and sourcebooks they acquired over the last few years are now worthless. |
The savage world rules are pretty weird.
I love weird probability action going on. If you have a d6 in shooting and I have a d4 in shooting.. and we are having a pistol duel I want us to take *ten* paces each not five so my chance of hitting is now 20% and yours is 16%!
/me has just started playing a game of deadlands.
Posted by: Fortune Aug 27 2007, 01:56 AM
Deadlands rocks! The original Pinnacle game is still my second favorite game of all time.
Posted by: eidolon Aug 27 2007, 01:42 PM
Deadlands is cool. I haven't played the SW version of it yet, but I know a few people that have played both and prefer the original.
KK, pick up the http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Worlds-Explorers-S2P10010-Staff/dp/0979245567. $10, full rules, packed with awesome.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 27 2007, 02:48 PM
...pretty cool. have to check My FLGS this weekend.
Love Deadlands, just wish more people where I lived played it. A game right up my namesake's alley.
Posted by: NightmareX Aug 28 2007, 06:28 AM
Ebola - perfect! I love it! The mere announcement of 4th edition D&D has certainly killed any desire to continue buying WotC stuff in our group, especially considering that the two main GMs (myself included) are rather heavily invested in 3.5 (and Eberron in my case). Talk about alienating the fanbase 
Posted by: NightmareX Aug 28 2007, 06:47 AM
| QUOTE (Hammer Of Tyr) |
| My GM just got ack from GenCon and described the atmosphere as "prison camp" like and that he was being "Force fed" 4e. The only ones excited with it were WoTC employees, and the other publishers that he spoke to (That he used to work for) don't think 4E is a good Idea. The game will run more like World of Warcrap and the "subscription" Idea is Wotc just absorbing WoW's business model. |
Found this on the WotC boards. Given that WotC has flat out admitted to lying to their fanbase, I believe it.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 28 2007, 09:58 PM
...almost makes 'ol Mr Gygax & TSR not seem all that bad anymore...
Posted by: Wounded Ronin Aug 28 2007, 10:42 PM
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...almost makes 'ol Mr Gygax & TSR not seem all that bad anymore... |
Hey, man, Gygax is cool. He's the Chuck Norris of RPGs. When you roll on the tables for random tavern encounters in your 1st edition D&D game and the result of the dice roll is that the level 1 torch bearer hireling is in fact a sociopath because that possibility is indeed on the table, it's everything you can do as the GM to bite your lip and not scream "CHUCK NORRIS!" at the top of your lungs.
Posted by: BishopMcQ Aug 28 2007, 10:55 PM
| QUOTE (NightmareX) | ||
Found this on the WotC boards. Given that WotC has flat out admitted to lying to their fanbase, I believe it. |
Having been at GenCon, I don't recall any prison camp vibes. When I wasn't running games, I spent a lot of time in the dealer hall and walked through the WotC booth. They made the pronouncement that 4th Ed was coming, but given that they weren't answering many questions, I can't see how it would be described as force fed.
It was rather the opposite, I had to pry out teeth just to get admission on whether or not a D20 would still be rolled.
Posted by: eidolon Aug 28 2007, 11:24 PM
I believe the prison camp reference was only in relation to the 4e announcement (and the area in which it was made). I could be wrong.
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 28 2007, 11:30 PM
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) |
| Hey, man, Gygax is cool. He's the Chuck Norris of RPGs. |
[thread tanget]Gives WR 1,250 Exp so he can reach 2nd level thief and kill the torch bearer.
Gygaz rules.[/thread tanget]
Posted by: Trigger Aug 28 2007, 11:53 PM
yeah, I just heard last night from a friend of mine, whose friend in Boston is one of the artists for something that has to do with 4th Edition. He said that is has something to do with a sort of MMO kind of game and gameplay, but also that R.A. Salvatore is one of the writer's for it.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Aug 29 2007, 01:34 AM
| QUOTE (Wounded Ronin) | ||
Hey, man, Gygax is cool. He's the Chuck Norris of RPGs. When you roll on the tables for random tavern encounters in your 1st edition D&D game and the result of the dice roll is that the level 1 torch bearer hireling is in fact a sociopath because that possibility is indeed on the table, it's everything you can do as the GM to bite your lip and not scream "CHUCK NORRIS!" at the top of your lungs. |
...I actually miss those old NPC encounter tables
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Aug 29 2007, 04:21 AM
| QUOTE (Trigger) |
| but also that R.A. Salvatore is one of the writer's for it. |
Damn it. And I liked him. Now I have to throw those books away.
Posted by: hyzmarca Aug 29 2007, 04:25 AM
Perhaps they'll just reissue 1e, exactly the same as it was, including the classic blue cover, and just call it 4e. That would be awesome.
Posted by: Zhan Shi Sep 5 2007, 03:55 AM
bleh. This is partly why I stopped playing "that other game"; they release a set of rulebooks, a year later "version x.5", a year after that "version x.x", etc. You're shelling out megabucks for ever more versions of core rules. But what do I know? They're still #1 in sales and popularity, so they must be doing something right.
Posted by: azrael_ven Sep 8 2007, 01:53 AM
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) | ||
Damn it. And I liked him. Now I have to throw those books away. |
It happens to the best of us. I knew something was up when Salvatore joined with McFarlane and Schilling. Filthy Lucre, Filthy Lucre, Filthy Lucre!!!
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