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Dumpshock Forums _ General Gaming _ Need new SR minis

Posted by: Donk Sep 11 2007, 12:17 AM

Hey all,

I want to state up front that I am not intending this post to be the start of some weird flame war. Now that I've said that....

I really think WizKids needs to look at creating ShadowClix, the SR Clix based minis game.

And I don't count the failed action figure game from a couple years ago.

The reason I think this is may fold:

1) We, the SR community really do need NEW SR based minis!

2) The quality of mini's at WK has been suberb of late

3) There is so much possibility in the sheer volume of minis that can be made from PC types, NPCs, Drones, Paracritters, Matrix Constructs (Yeah, think about it!), Spirits/Elementals, Bystanders (tokens).

4) The maps they can make!!!

5) Vehicle sets, large paracritter sets (Dragons!)

6) Box sets of Corp/Govt Mil units!

7) Doc Wagon HTR Box Set!!

Do up figs for the iconic npcs from the fiction.

9) And the mini's game itself may actually be fun!

Ive been playing/collecting WK mini's since the initial Mage KNight release and I plan to use figs from MK, HeroClix, HorrorClix, and even Mechwarrior for my SR4 games.

I think the possibilities are really endless and they can do several sets with the material produced so far.

That's just my ¥0.02 on the subject.

Thanx for listening,

-Donk

Posted by: Mr. Man Sep 11 2007, 04:07 AM

IIRC the reason we got Duels instead of a Clix game was because the SR mini rights belong to Iron Wind Metals.

Posted by: DuckEggBlue Omega Sep 11 2007, 05:03 AM

I used to play MK and always thought an SR click game would be good.

Still could be - Duels was just horrendous, I think the actual rules and stats on the figures were written by 2 seperate people who never really discussed how the game should work, that and though some of the figures were OK others just sucked, some didn't even fit on their bases or couldn't hold the items they were meant to.

Pity about the the mini rights though.

Posted by: Adam Sep 11 2007, 05:11 AM

Iron Wind Metals has the rights to do, well, _metal_ miniatures. WizKids can do what they like with plastics.

Posted by: Ampere Sep 11 2007, 09:45 PM

I'd love it if IWM did up some new sculpts for SR figs. The old ones are pretty blegh in comparison to a lot of todays figures (Privateer Press, Rackham, GW).

Problem is, I know what it costs to make new sculpts and get them in to production...and making something that'll actually be worth the cost...it's questionable.

Posted by: Platinum Sep 11 2007, 10:09 PM

It would be cool if everyone was able to build their own with 3d printers. You just have to spend the time modeling, but with all of the programs out there like Daz3d and poser ... even that would not be a problem.

3d printers are a little while off ... although there seem to be a few home brew models out there.

Posted by: the_dunner Sep 12 2007, 11:22 AM

QUOTE (Ampere)

Problem is, I know what it costs to make new sculpts and get them in to production...and making something that'll actually be worth the cost...it's questionable.

A relatively novice sculptor gets several hundred dollar for a typical 25mm sculpting job. A veteran can get substantially more than that. Larger figures, or exceptionally detailed figures also command higher premiums.

Moldmaking for metal casting, ignoring labor costs, for the moment) is relatively inexpensive. Say, on the order of $50-$100. However, the higher grade pewters that are currently in use aren't cheap.

I'm not positive, but I believe a decent break even point on a metal sculpt for a company like IWM is in the area of 800-1000 minis.

Currently, CBT minis can generally manage that.

However, Shadowrun Minis from IWM currently sell poorly. They've previously stated that if they saw sales that could justify new sculpts they'd do them. However, they haven't yet seen those sales.

Posted by: Caine Hazen Sep 12 2007, 12:45 PM

QUOTE (the_dunner)

I'm not positive, but I believe a decent break even point on a metal sculpt for a company like IWM is in the area of 800-1000 minis.

Currently, CBT minis can generally manage that.

However, Shadowrun Minis from IWM currently sell poorly. They've previously stated that if they saw sales that could justify new sculpts they'd do them. However, they haven't yet seen those sales.

Its a catch 22 really. Old minis which are sculpted so out of scale to other moderns (which I know a lot of people use for Srun) are not going to sell well in the current environment, thus there really isn't going to be the demand that will show sales increases. Investors.. that's the key! That or sculptors who love the game and are willing to work on the cheap

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 12 2007, 01:13 PM

QUOTE (DuckEggBlue Omega)

Duels was just horrendous, I think the actual rules and stats on the figures were written by 2 seperate people who never really discussed how the game should work

It had serious flaws, but it wasn't that bad. The big problem was that it balanced very differently based on whether you used the (tiny) recommended field of play or a larger or unlimited field, and based on whether you drew from an unlimited pool of gear or whether you just drew from the gear that came with the character. Most notably, on the recommended field G-Dogg will generally eat people with his vicious close-combat ability, while Liasa or the Yakuza enforcer chick will tend to dominate with their speed and range on a large or unlimited field. Despite being worth four points, Lothan the Wise (in our games) tended to be on par with if not slightly weaker than the above three depending on field of play.

Its other major problem is that it was most interesting with at least two teams of two, and better with three teams of two or two teams of three. With the figures being priced at what they were, that wasn't really too feasible to put together. It didn't help that having a larger pool of gear was such a big advantage—it had a pretty big range starting right from zero where the amount of money you spend will correlate very well with your advantage in the game.

~J

Posted by: eidolon Sep 12 2007, 01:54 PM

I dunno, I always thought that the biggest 2 flaws in the Duels game were
1. (my) Shadowrun isn't about which of 2 characters has the biggest one on one combat peen
2. the figures were way too big for that kind of game; nice detail and they were cool for putting on a shelf, but good grief.

Posted by: Caine Hazen Sep 12 2007, 02:25 PM

We had written up a campaign style guide for the Duels stuff. I wonder if I still have it anywhere, or if it was lost in my last great crash.

Posted by: eidolon Sep 12 2007, 02:41 PM

I blame Winternight.

Posted by: Fortune Sep 12 2007, 03:33 PM

QUOTE (Caine Hazen)

We had written up a campaign style guide for the Duels stuff.

I wouldn't mind seeing that.

Posted by: tisoz Sep 13 2007, 03:53 AM

QUOTE (Donk @ Sep 10 2007, 08:17 PM)

3) There is so much possibility in the sheer volume of minis that can be made from PC types, NPCs, Drones, Paracritters, Matrix Constructs (Yeah, think about it!), Spirits/Elementals, Bystanders (tokens).

4) The maps they can make!!!

5) Vehicle sets, large paracritter sets (Dragons!)

6) Box sets of Corp/Govt Mil units!

7) Doc Wagon HTR Box Set!!

8) Do up figs for the iconic npcs from the fiction.

I think all of these have been available at on time or another over the years. What is going to make them profitable now? Not shooting down the idea as much as what is going to make them sell?

Perhaps you are asking for a miniatures combat game with its own combat rules but based in the SR universe? Check out Downtown Militarized Zone (DMZ) from about 15 years ago. It may fit the bill.

QUOTE (Caine Hazen)

Investors.. that's the key! That or sculptors who love the game and are willing to work on the cheap.

I think I could get some minis sculpted to order (and low casting run), maybe for as low as twice the cost of mass produced figs. I'll have to check out some information I heard.

What would be nice is if we could get around 10 people to go in. Each person would get their design sculpted and agree to buy the 10 figure set. What would be a fair price for such a limited edition set? (I am assuming professional looking figs.)

Posted by: DuckEggBlue Omega Sep 13 2007, 04:00 AM

QUOTE (tisoz)

Perhaps you are asking for a miniatures combat game with its own combat rules but based in the SR universe?

Yes, that is precisely what he is asking for.

QUOTE (Donk)

I really think WizKids needs to look at creating ShadowClix, the SR Clix based minis game.

I would like to think that the market for this can't be any more niche than HaloClix, and hence viable, but I doubt it will happen.

Posted by: tisoz Sep 13 2007, 04:08 AM

Ah, then his topic should have been, Need new SR clicks game.

Posted by: eidolon Sep 13 2007, 01:53 PM

Dammit, tisoz.

Anyone know how to clean vomit from a keyboard?

Posted by: Kagetenshi Sep 13 2007, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (DuckEggBlue Omega)

I would like to think that the market for this can't be any more niche than HaloClix

You might like to think that, but in yet more evidence that there is no justice in this world, Halo is massively popular.

Of course, I might buy into a MarathonClix or PiDClix game... though I'm not sure even I'd buy into a Minotaur: The Labyrinths of CreteClix game.

AbuseClix, now that would be interesting.

~J

Posted by: Platinum Sep 13 2007, 03:32 PM

So in a small related tangeant ... what is the best minitures game out there?

I was thinking it would want to maybe come up with some cards that are shadowrun related... base runners that you equip with equipment cards

Everything is based on a nuyen value -- one runner will cost 7000 another could be 2000. I don't want to objective cards or anything ... but have the possibility of a corp, having their cards as well. I love miniatures... but I am not in a position to collect so I would make "pog" style representations for now, but I do want to use a decent miniature mechanics system. One that doesn't need a mathematics calculator. Did shadowrun's clix version have a condition monitor?