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Posted by: Hocus Pocus Feb 22 2008, 05:22 PM

I'm coming into a bit of money. I was suprised when my wife suggested that we get a new computer, absolutly flabbergasted when she told me that I alone will make the decision on what to buy. As you can imagine, I'm as happy as a little girl.

Way back when, i think it was casper, who posted a nice comp build. But I don't have it anymore, and dealing with Real Life has led me to falter on the intracacies of the computer world. So i need some help in my decision. I'm looking to spend about 1200-1400 bucks, less would be even better. Requirements are as follows:

For the wife

she does alot of administration work and such. Excel and spreadsheets, and organization blather. I think her needs are very basic and whatever comp I get should work out for her.

Mine needs

The main one, and the only reason I bought a computer in the first place is computer gaming. I would like the have the mid to top of the line area to play and enjoy the most up to date games graphics wise. Secondary reasons are music and porn.

An old boss of mine and some coworkers swear by apple computers and I've looked into them seriously. But they won't play all the games I want to play I don't think, otherwise I probably rather buy one because they seem easier to use, the ones on display.

I'm just brainstorming some ideas kick some my way if you get a sec. This old southern dandy thanks you in advance *smooches*

Posted by: Kagetenshi Feb 22 2008, 05:52 PM

Depends, what games do you want to play?

~J

Posted by: Hocus Pocus Feb 22 2008, 06:06 PM

I want to be able to play any game on the market right now.


my favorites are stragety and rpg

Posted by: Kagetenshi Feb 22 2008, 06:55 PM

Ok, well, as big a fan of the Mac as I am, I'm not sure I can entirely recommend that route. On the one hand, you can boot into Windows, which will allow you to play most Windows games (IIRC there are a few which have weirdness with the drivers), but on the other hand rebooting is a pain in the ass and you'd still need a copy of Windows (which, granted, can be gotten in less-than-legitimate ways). It would also depend on your habits; if you don't bother to switch back into OS X most of the time, it sorta defeats the purpose (though the hardware is still nice and is fairly competitive in price on many models, you don't get the option to drop certain types of features even if you might not use them, which comparatively drives the price up for some people).

Aside from the new-computer issue, if you're a fan of strategy games have you tried http://www.wesnoth.org/? Some of the campaigns have bits where they devolve from "fun-hard" into "obnoxious-hard", but that may just be my playstyle and in any event it's an excellent game with a lot of good material regardless.

Also worth a look, though less free, is http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/'s games, even if they did take a major UI quality nosedive between the Exile series and the Avernum series. Not much going on here graphics-wise, though.

~J

Posted by: jago668 Feb 22 2008, 08:50 PM

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Windsor 2.4GHz Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor Model ADA4600CUBOX - Retail $72
ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $135
Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Model BL2KIT12864AA804 - Retail $65
XFX PVT84JYAJG GeForce 8600GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail $100
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA-300 Hard Drive - OEM $120
ENERMAX Liberty ELT620AWT ATX12V 620W Power Supply - Retail $120
LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model LH-16A1S-15 - OEM $25
ENERMAX Uber Chakra ECA5001BABS Black Aluminum / Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail $114

Total Total $752

That should play anything out right now. Case can of course vary, I have the one here, and it is quiet and keeps everything cool. I wouldn't advise using it as a lan case though.

I left off mouse, keyboard, monitor, and OS. Figure you can easily reuse from the old system. Other people can jump in with replacement ideas and what nots.

EDIT:
This is all from newegg, so easily shippable from one place. You can probably dig around and find stuff cheaper if you want to deal with getting everything from 6 different places.

Posted by: tete Feb 22 2008, 09:43 PM

I would consider a Mac, it may not be for you but with things like parallels you have lots of options. Remember "if" you want more than 4gb of memory you need a 64bit OS. If I personally had 1,400 for a PC I would buy a Mac, load ubuntu and run XP 64 and OSX in vmware sessions, but that might be a little too crazy for you.

Posted by: jago668 Feb 22 2008, 09:48 PM

QUOTE (tete @ Feb 22 2008, 05:43 PM)

Posted by: Kagetenshi Feb 22 2008, 10:10 PM

That's not true for OS X, IIRC; non-64-bit Windows does some specific things that end up causing that limitation (though it's a per-process limitation; you can use all 4 gigs, you just can't use them all for the same process).

Edit: I don't believe it's the case for Linux systems (like Ubuntu), either, but I haven't done much digging into the Linux kernel.

~J

Posted by: hyzmarca Feb 22 2008, 10:37 PM

A case is a case is a case. If you have a computer then you can cannibalize it for the case and probably the power supply. This will save you money. You can probably also reuse your hard drive and Optical disc drives. This will also save you some money (though you might eventually need to add a new hard drive for more space, depending on what you have and what your proclivities are).

Posted by: kanislatrans Feb 23 2008, 12:06 AM

My wife just picked up a decent system on Tigerdirect. We comparison shopped at New Egg. ( and I have preference for ordering form them) but the system we got was only 599.99 without an O/S. its not top of the line,but has a lot of room to upgrade. cant remember the name, and its not here till the 25th.
jago668's build looks sweet. almost like the one we are getting except with a better video card.(a situation that will be quickly remedied as soon as I can soak up a little overtime)

Posted by: Backgammon Feb 23 2008, 01:52 AM

I buy a lot of stuff at Tigerdirect too. If I were to buy a new game comp, I would most likely buy it from there.

Posted by: jago668 Feb 23 2008, 06:18 AM

I also recommend buying a higher end monitor once you get a video card that can really make use of it. Since everytime you use the computer you will be looking at it. Makes it so much more enjoyable, for anything. I have a 22" widescreen lcd and I will never go back. So upgrade the video card so you can get the performance you want from games, and then drop $300 - $350 or so on a good monitor.

Say similar to this.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002356
or possibly
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005097

You can certainly get cheaper ones, only $235 for this.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014131

Posted by: Cain Feb 23 2008, 07:43 AM

QUOTE (jago668 @ Feb 22 2008, 12:50 PM)

Posted by: jago668 Feb 23 2008, 09:45 AM

I never said newegg was the best price, but they are easy to use and find stuff on. So I link stuff from there. I said he could shop around and find a better deal if he wanted to ship from multiple places. By all means get the best deal you can, and pay attention to shipping costs. No reason to save $10 on a piece of hardware to pay $12 more on shipping.

As for the psu you really want to go for a good bit more than you need. That way you can upgrade later on, and not run into problems. Better to buy a 650W now than a 450W and then later have to buy a 650W and have an extra 450W just laying around. As for the hard drive, it is actually cheaper (on newegg) than getting two 250GB 7200rpm drives by about $12. On tiger direct that very same drive is actually $9 more. Plus this way it only takes one power dongle, and one cable to the mobo, and leaves 3 extra sata slots on the mobo open for more optical drives or hard drives in the future.

Cases are a personal preference much of time. I mentioned above I have it myself and it runs quiet and cool and will fit even a 8800GTX with a bit of room to spare. So upgrading later won't be a problem. Just putting it up for consideration is all. I never expect anyone to build exactly what I show, but it gives a decent starting point to look around at. Also with cases pay attention to what type and how many fans it will hold, and go for a case that will fit 120mm fans. For the same airflow they will run quieter, than a 80mm fan.

The only one video card, and 2 gig of ram. He can always add those later, and leaves more of his budget open right now for other things, like maybe a new monitor, software, going out to a nice restaraunt, or putting in a savings account.

For monitors CRTs are cheaper, but good luck finding a decent one anymore. Newegg lists 5-6, and tigerdirect doesn't even have a listing for them. As for just personal, I have a big nice professional grade crt that is wedged into a back closet somewhere because a 19" lcd gave as much viewable area, weighed about 60 lbs less, and took up about a sixth of the desk space. Then I switched to a 22" widescreen lcd and I'll never go back. Trust me, drop the cash on the widescreen lcd if you can.

To use the website you like, $250
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2604167&CatId=2775

EDIT
To add a couple things.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Feb 23 2008, 11:19 AM

Eww, CRT…

Consider the power costs as well before going CRT. It's not a great option, in general, unless you're doing work where colour-accuracy is critical.

~J

Posted by: hyzmarca Feb 23 2008, 04:38 PM

In gaming, color accuracy is critical, particularly is someone has the bright idea to create a halo mod where the Baby Blue team fights the Columbia Blue team.

Posted by: the_dunner Feb 23 2008, 04:38 PM

If your maximum budget is $1400, you're not going to be able to find a Mac with hardware that'll play current high end Windows games. The only systems with the appropriate video hardware for that are Mac Pros and Mac Book Pros, either of which are going to exceed your budget. (Yes, the Santa Rosa chipset is better than anything previously integrated. However, for high-end 3D games, its still completely unacceptable.)

On the TigerDirect vs. Newegg front, consider return policies and rebates, if applicable. TigerDirect has a history of being very hard to deal with for returns and rebate fulfillment. Newegg, OTOH, has an excellent reputation on both of those fronts.

Having covered those points -- how comfortable are you building the system yourself? $1400 is a pretty generous budget. On the one hand, you can easily build a system that will meet your requirements for $800 or so. On the other hand, if you're concerned about digging around inside your system, then you could inadvertently flush that $800 down the toilet when you hook the power supply up backwards or ground something wrong. (I've had to deal with a fair number of folks who "let the magic smoke out.") If your comfort level isn't really high, you might be better off grabbing a Dell (or other manufacturer's system) that comes with a Warranty and somebody to who'll drive to your house and fix anything that breaks.

If you really want to build something, then, a quick stop at Newegg turned this up as a starting point:


GIGABYTE GA-N650SLI-DS4L
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor
EVGA 512-P3-N862-AR GeForce 9600GT Superclocked 512MB 256-bit GDR3
Kingston HyperX 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800

That comes to $655 before shipping. Adding a DVD burner, a 500GB HD, Windows, and a case with a decent power supply should still leave you under $1000. If you want to use this as a media center, you should be able to swap the vid card for one with HDCP without too much of a price/performance hit, then add in LG's $135 Blu-Ray reader.

In terms of a monitor, I'm currently using a Vizio 37" HDTV as my preferred monitor (However, it only does 720p). That ran about $600 when I bought it last summer. If you want higher resolution or a larger screen, you'll obviously be spending more money. OTOH, if you don't want to use this as a media center, then you Samsung's got some great 22" LCDs that you can find for around $300 (e.g. SAMSUNG 226BW Black 22", $280 at Newegg.) I just bought one of those for my Father-in-Law, and he's quite fond of it.

Posted by: Caine Hazen Feb 23 2008, 05:57 PM

Only thing I'll disagree with on the_dunner's post there is the GeForce 9600, the 8800GTs with 512 of memory run the same prices and actually perform better at higher resolutions. I've been watching the reviews as I'm in the marke right now for a new system as well... I just have a stretched out budget (I buy a component a month...)

Posted by: Lindt Feb 23 2008, 07:54 PM

Yeah, even though Im a hard core Invidia lover, and have been since the TNT2 cards, there isnt enough of a jump to justify the 9 series. As it stands an 8800GTX is rather faster then the 9600. Go get a good aftermarket 8800gts, I highly recommend BFG tech.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Feb 24 2008, 01:05 AM

Get an Apple IIC from the 80s. Play Think Quick! and The Leather Goddess Of Phobos.

Only when you use an Apple II will you understand how a cyberdeck is supposed to look and feel.

Posted by: Fix-it Feb 24 2008, 01:59 AM

whatever you do, DO NOT skimp on the power supply. don't do it. trim fat elsewhere. the PSU is the cornerstone of a system.

Posted by: hyzmarca Feb 24 2008, 02:45 AM

At the same time, an absurdly powerful power supply will usually be inefficient at low loads, meaning that supplies with obscenely high wattage ratings will just wast electricity unless you have obscenely high power requirements.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Feb 25 2008, 05:07 AM

QUOTE (the_dunner @ Feb 23 2008, 11:38 AM)

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Feb 26 2008, 07:34 AM

Ahh, Crapintosh. They used to be cool back in the 80s, they started to suck in the 90s (I remember overhearing this in my middle school computer lab: "Can these macs multitask?" "Yeah, right before they crash"), and now they have nothing going for them but the brain-dead snobbery of their ad campaigns.

Guys, you could have been cool and elite if you used a mac over ten years ago. Now you're just the ironic sucker in a marketing campaign which fondles the moldering past.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Feb 26 2008, 10:40 AM

#!/bin/bash
rm -rf Wounded\ Ronin

#~J

Posted by: Hocus Pocus Jun 24 2008, 02:16 AM

well i have yet to even really look at building my own comp, i haven't the time what with IRL stuff. So it looks like I'm gonna have to buy something prebuilt. My old boss told me that the new macs will come with microsoft OS, will that enable one to play computer games of all kinds as long as you have the system requirements? or are you still unable to play most PC games from the mac? that really is my main thing, computer gaming. I think my old comp is starting to go down hill faster now, i get a yellow light sometimes on the hard drive and my comp freezes alot.


It looks like I'll have to go with what I really didn't want to and buy a dell if the macs don't play PC games. a cursory look at them i made out one that looks ok to get:

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsdt_630?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

1. left the system color black

2. the dell reccomended Intel® Core™2 Q6600 Quad-Core (8MB L2 cache,2.40GHz,1066FSB)

3. hopefully xp, i heard vista is a memory heavy application.

4. left it at 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs

5. dell reccomended 1TB Performance RAID 0 (2 x 500GB SATA 3Gb/s 7200 RPM HDDs)

6. no additonal hard drive

7. left it at Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write

8 dell reccomended 20 inch SP2008WFP Wide Flat Panel with Webcam and Mic

probably over 2k when all said and done. My goal is to have a comp that lasts like the one i have now. 7 years. does this seem like a decent gaming rig? again i have not the time to build one myself and I know I'll eat it on price a bit. Still it is convient and I'm realistaclly not sufficient in the mental capacity to build one myself.

Posted by: DTFarstar Jun 24 2008, 03:43 AM

Glad I may have gotten here in time, if you are going pre-built I highly recommend CyberPowerPC.com. They are a much smaller company, but they build and test the hell out of all the computers they make for people before sending them off and they are really good on the warranty and response time with questions. Also, I just got my girlfriend a laptop that is pretty much the same system you just listed from Dell for $1342 so if you turned it into a desktop you would knock a good bit of cash off the top.

I also got my PC from there and the guys that built it were really nice, they were out of the case that I ordered so instead of making me wait they just bumped me one up the line(gave me the next more expensive case) and got it built and sent out to me.)

I cannot recommend them enough, before you buy definitely comparison shop their website. In my experience comparable computers are approximately 200-400$ cheaper there than Dell or Gateway.

Chris

Posted by: Fortune Jun 24 2008, 10:12 AM

On the other hand, I have never had any problems with Dell, and even had Customer Service be quite helpful when I screwed something up over a year after the warranty expired.

On the topic of Operating Systems though, go with XP over Vista!

Posted by: DTFarstar Jun 24 2008, 11:37 AM

Quite a few years ago now, when I had a Dell, Cust. Serv. was always a crapshoot. I am confident enough in my own abilities to not screw stuff up, that as long as the computer is high quality and doesn't actually break down I won't need to even talk to them. With Dell, I had to call them a lot when things malfunctioned and had to send the stupid thing off a couple of times because there wasn't a service place for Dell near here. Only problem with my CyberPower PC was my problem, I didn't read up on the video card enough and I didn't find out that it has a tendency to overheat. Really good card- at the time- if you keep it cooled enough, but to save money I knocked the whole thing from liquid cooled to fans and had some problems. But, that was my fault.

Your mileage my vary.
Chris

Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 24 2008, 02:33 PM

Dell's RAM selection sucks. Seriously, you want 2 2GB 1066MHZ DIMMS, for several reasons. The first is upgradeability, The second is cost. It is cheaper to use fewer DIMMs and using 2 DIMMS on a 4 slot motherboard givea you two free slots so you can bump it up to 8GB fairly easily. The third is synchronization. Core 2s work best when the RAM is synchronous with the FSB meaning that the best performance for a Kentfield comes from 1066 RAM, unless you're going to overlclock. Latency doesn't matter very much due to the Core 2's huge L2 so high performance RAM provides little value.


And, seriously, They're overcharging you. I just put together the following system on NewEgg for the hell of it.

Posted by: Adarael Jun 24 2008, 05:01 PM

Just as a note, it's not Windows that keeps you from using more than 3.25 gigs of RAM on a single application, it's any OS coded with a 32-bit kernel and stack for x86 architecture. Though for like, OSX, say, they have the hybrid kernel that means there's no separate '32' and '64' versions such as there is for Vista or XP.

Posted by: Hocus Pocus Jun 25 2008, 02:19 AM

well ya'll have given me something to think about. Realistically i can't just go willy nilly into making a major purchase like this without some type of research. My wife had a few requests. She wants a monitor that plays like a tv or something. have to look into that, and she requested I smaller price as she has spent the money that was set aside for the computer so it looks like we'll have to charge it or something. See what i can come up with.

Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 25 2008, 03:26 AM

QUOTE (Hocus Pocus @ Jun 24 2008, 09:19 PM)

Posted by: Fortune Jun 25 2008, 09:19 AM

QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Jun 24 2008, 09:37 PM)

Posted by: the_dunner Jun 25 2008, 03:41 PM

QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jun 24 2008, 11:26 PM)

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Jun 26 2008, 12:19 AM

RAID will not add much to a consumer rig, as 90% of the time failure mods are caused by software driven data corruption. A regular backup routine of disk images to an external hard drive would be more effective.

Posted by: Hocus Pocus Jun 26 2008, 02:52 AM

think my wife means that we can hook up to a tv and play it on the comp screen and vice versa

i have the comp i have now for 7 years. I'd preferably like to get a decent rig that will steadily decline till the specs for computer games start to get higher than my comp's specs. Yeah we have an external hard drive that back up all the family photos and my old saved games and such. As long as it is steady and reliable (which admitedly dell is) I don't think I'd have too much problems (hopefully). Like forty my hard drive craped out on me one time, but i had the extended warranty and they replaced it for free. Other than that it has been smooth as gravy.

again ty for input

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Jun 26 2008, 05:16 AM

think my wife means that we can hook up to a tv and play it on the comp screen and vice versa <-- That is actually quite challenging.

Most TVs won't route the TV signal out to a computer.

However any modern computer will send output to a modern digital screen - like an LCD or Plasma, though you may have to purchase an adapter cable. (For example sony hates you, and the VGA input doens't work at native res out of the box on my Sony Bravia , while you need a DVI -> HDMI adapter to get native res via the digital connection argh.)

If its mandatory to get TV from your computer, you will need to buy a TV tuner card. Fortunately these are super cheap.

I reckon the best solution for you is a regular desktop, probably from smaller 'assemble from your chosen parts' vendor, not a dell, with a crossfire capable motherboard and some ram slots free. Then buy a HD4850 or 4870 as your graphics card, and when the system gets a bit long in the tooth, throw in some more ram and a second card graphics card - SLI or crossfire allows them both to work in tandem.

You could the same thing with Nvidia, just that the SLI capable mobos are considerably more expersive in australia, not sure if that holds in the US. Hyzamca's proposed solution does what I'm starting with SLI

Posted by: Cthulhudreams Jun 26 2008, 05:16 AM

Double post

Posted by: Stahlseele Jun 26 2008, 12:18 PM

Posted by: Hocus Pocus Jun 29 2008, 04:13 PM

i told her how much it will be and she kinda deflated to that idea so for right now it is nixed.

oh i know I'd like a new comp every year if i could manage it but I hate paying so much money so it WILL last me 7 years one way or another by dagnabit!

QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 26 2008, 01:18 PM)

Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 30 2008, 01:39 AM

A 23" Scepter LCD HDTV with 1080i and HDMI, YPbPr, S-Video, and VGA video inputs as well as unspecified audio inputs (probably RCA) and unspecified audio and video outputs is 349.99 at New Egg and comes with a $30 mail in rebate. This isn't much more expensive than 22" LCD monitor with far fewer features.

You can get a new comp every year cheap if you're willing to recycle parts and go low end. I could upgrade a computer to modern standards, assuming that most of its parts can be recycled, for $200-$350 (not including monitor) depending on what is needed. It won't be SOTA and probably won't play every new game very well, but it would be more than up to snuff.

Posted by: Hocus Pocus Jun 30 2008, 03:06 AM

well now I'm paranoid that maybe some malware or hacker gots ahold of my comp. 3 times it went kaput today, but now and then i hear a series of clicks that sound like one is going to a different homepage or opening up another browser. it was after these clicks that my comp shut down for the second time. dunno what is going on. I'm scared.


yeah i'm now thinking I"ll have to go cheap and just get a comp with the mininum stats=minimum price.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 1 2008, 03:47 PM

disconnect machine from internet and see if it still happens . .

Posted by: hyzmarca Jul 1 2008, 06:48 PM

Install http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html and http://www.avast.com and run both of them (run Avast! first).

Posted by: Kagetenshi Jul 2 2008, 01:19 AM

QUOTE (Adarael @ Jun 24 2008, 01:01 PM)

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 2 2008, 12:52 PM

and of course, the mainboard has to support more than 3 Gigs of RAM, just like old MainBoards don't work with really big HDD's either . .

Posted by: Hocus Pocus Jul 17 2008, 02:28 AM

ty hyzy. i had like 17 trojans on my comp :O noticed it runs just a bit faster. My hero *fluttering eyelashes*



well i got some of the bills from what the wife has bought and it is a definate that buying a new comp has been placed on hold. 7 years old, interesting to see how long this thing will last.

Posted by: Hocus Pocus Jul 17 2008, 03:03 AM

ack dun libol!

while i was typing my first post for avatar, the wife called, talked to her about 10 minutes then when i came back to the comp, the green button on the hard drive turned yellow and my comp froze. c'mon ole betsy don't fail me now!