Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Mar 30 2008, 10:58 PM

Today I happened to be visiting a sporting goods store and they had a sale, so I bought myself a Mosin Nagant M91/30 for only $79! I'm really exited as this is the first time I've owned (as opposed to just got the chance to fire) a high powered rifle. The rifle seems to have come with a bayonet, a strap, an ammo pouch, and a metal container of thick brown grease that appears to have leaked all over itself. I'm a little bit intimidated as I'm not sure what do with the thick brown grease and plus I've never disassembled a rifle before. However, I'm really excited to have been able to add so inexpensively to my collection. What's more it seems like now I'd finally have the chance to get into longer range rifelry if that's what I decide to eventually do, since this particular model has been used as a "sniper rifle" in the past.

I'm not totally sure what the origin of the rifle is. There appear to be some cyrillic markings on the metal, the number 1942, and a small hammer and sickle all engraved. There's also a number 8788 appearing twice near the bolt and once on the butt. Finally, on the left side it looks like something's been engraved using little dots in the black finish. It says:

Does anyone have a clue as to when or where this rifle has been manufactured?

Also, does anyone have some tips regarding operating and caring for a Mosin Nagant?

Finally, the bayonet doesn't seem too sharp, but it's a little bit sharp. I suppose that if I really rammed it into someone it could penetrate. Would you guess that the bayonet is meant to be used as a weapon with this particular rifle, or would it more likely just have been included as "flavor"?

Posted by: Malicant Mar 30 2008, 11:15 PM

Now that's some freakishly old rifle you got yourself. Well, let's assume it's from 1942, so a little less freakishly old. Have fun with it. That thing will most likely survive all of us by a couple of centuries.
Be careful with the grease though. Sounds suspicious.

Posted by: Arethusa Mar 30 2008, 11:23 PM

Time to read up.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu13.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu23.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu27.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu28.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu32.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu33.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu35.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu48.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu54.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm

There's some Mosin-Nagant specific information in there as well as a lot of general stuff for dealing with C&Rs.

The markings mean it's an M91/30 inported by Century Arms International in Georgia, VT. No idea on the age, as those markings are new. There are probably other original markings somewhere else on the rifle.

Posted by: Fix-it Mar 31 2008, 12:47 AM

Will you be using it stock, or doing a http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/mosinscoutrifle/pdf/mosinscoutrifle.pdf conversion?

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Mar 31 2008, 12:58 AM

Just a quick supplemental. Here are the images to go along with the original post:

Overall view: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2qs8piv&s=3

Numbering on bolt: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=o8rjt1&s=3

English language markings: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10dy3if&s=3

Engravings on top including 1942, hammer and sickle, and cyrillic: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2n2377k&s=3

Second view of the same: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=103xw6c&s=3

Markings on butt: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=jj9y0h&s=3

Markings on bottom: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=vdo4df&s=3

Bayonet: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6xu69w&s=3

What the heck is this? It's covered with a thick brown grease that I assume leaked out of it. I keep it wrapped in a plastic baggie: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10gimgx&s=3

Posted by: Arethusa Mar 31 2008, 01:26 AM

That's probably grease and cosmoline. You're going to want to dissolve that stuff out when you break it down, but I suggest you prepare to refinish it when you do so that maintenance is a lot easier than it was in 1942 (unless you really want historical accuracy). Box o Truth links have plenty of information and directions on how to do this.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Mar 31 2008, 02:13 AM

I'm not advanced enough of a hobbyist to do any conversions yet, plus I really like history. So, for the forseeable future I plan to leave it in its default state.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Mar 31 2008, 02:22 AM

Wow, that is quite a resource of links. I've read about half of them in one sitting. Very interesting, and a good orientation.

Posted by: Critias Mar 31 2008, 04:44 AM

Congrats on showing the world that RPGs really are full of crap when they overprice high-damage weapons in the name of "game balance." For the price of one tricked out 1911, you could outfit more than a dozen men with Mosin Nagant's, or SKSs, and a case or two of ammo to train and then outfit them with. Shhh, don't tell anyone, the firearm charts of every game ever will flip upside down.

Don't be too concerned or worried about disassembly and maintenance. Find a manual -- just Google it, you'll turn stuff up -- and then follow it carefully...but don't get an ulcer freaking out about it. You've got a milsurp Commie gun, which is just about the best purchase for the money anywhere in the world. The odds of you breaking it are slim to none, unless you set out to try and purposefully do so. You'll do fine.

Oh, and yes. When they put those bayonets on, they certainly were meant as weapons. You've got a Russian rifle made in 1942. They weren't fucking about, at the time.

Posted by: Squinky Mar 31 2008, 05:06 AM

Dude, I have that same gun. Fun to shoot. Although I admit I only shot mine a couple of times and then stowed it.

Posted by: Adarael Mar 31 2008, 05:20 PM

Man. That's one of the few rifles I'd really like to own.

Of course, I have that strange love of all things Soviet...

Posted by: HullBreach Apr 1 2008, 02:30 PM

Best part is that ammo for those is dirt cheap if you buy in bulk. It'll eat the cheap lacquered russian stuff without a problem too!

Check out www.ammoman.com for food for your new pet!

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Apr 1 2008, 04:19 PM

Wow, thanks for the link. Ammo can be so expensive so I appreciate the ability to get it cheaply in bulk.

Posted by: Fix-it Apr 1 2008, 09:36 PM

Just make sure you clean it, cheap ammo usually = dirty

Posted by: Narse Apr 2 2008, 01:20 AM

Or you know, you could just outfit them with surplus M1911's. Can't be that expensive.
On another note: There are actually some RPG's that do have the prices approximately right. I'm actually thinking of WoD specifically. The example that comes to mind is that of the surplus M1 Garands. The given price is as low as WoD can simulate without making them free (one dot, if you are familiar with the system). Actually, in general WoD's firearms fluff is quite good (In Armory at least) even though its rules provide for a oversimplified and not very accurate simulation.

Of course, while many of us may be interested in playing a moderately or fairly realistic game, there is still quite a bit to be said for game balance. It is my contention that properly balanced games are more fun. They certainly allow a wider range of play styles without one strategy coming to dominate. So I guess I am saying I'd rather put up with a little more unrealism than have a game suffer in playability because of its anal attention to reality.
Still though, I do have a tendency when contemplating simulation systems that I might potentially create to go overboard on detail and realism. Fortunately my intended medium is with computer programs which allow most of the headache and complexity to be hidden from the user. I guess what I'm saying is that while realism has its place, eventually one has to concentrate on the experience of the player/user. Any negative impact on experience from realism or the lack of it, should be avoided where possible.

Oh, and Wounded Ronin, I hope you enjoy your Mosin Nagant.

Posted by: Critias Apr 2 2008, 04:47 AM

A single surplus M1911 tends to run in the $300-$400 range. So four to five times the cost, for a tiny little fraction of the firepower and range (buying a handgun instead of a high powered rifle). What a bargain!

Posted by: HullBreach Apr 2 2008, 05:13 PM

Plus, if you dont mind a slightly used milsurp unit thats been in cosmoline for 50+ years, you can bag Mosin Nagants for as little as $89-110USD. I've been playing around with bagging one for a while.

Also, with a decent scope and some trigger work, they make great deer rifles.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Apr 7 2008, 05:31 AM

Well, after some delays, I finally got to fire my Mosin Nagant this morning! I had visited 2 stores that were out of stock on 7.62x54R, and at a third store I decided to get ripped off on 1 box of JSP cartridges at Big 5 just so that I could go ahead and fire it already. This coming week I plan to pick up a drum of 300 cartridges for ~$50 from a friendly local gunsmith's shop as soon as their shipment arrives.

A few observations and questions:

1.) The trigger pull on the Mosin Nagant was the hardest that I've ever experienced! The first time I chambered a round and pulled the trigger I wondered if something was wrong with the rifle or if I was doing something wrong because there was no boom. I looked down at the rifle, and, not seeing anything obviously wrong, tried again and pulled the trigger really, really hard, and BOOM, it fired and everything was working fine. I thought the double action trigger pull on my Ruger P97DC was bad, but the pull on the Mosin Nagant is just a monster!

The trigger pull was so hard that I actually found it difficult to maintain an excellent sight picture from a standing position. I'd carefully align my sights and be happy with my totally precise sight picture, but when I wrestled with that trigger it'd get kind of off-alignment and I felt that my actual shooting from a standing position was a lot less accurate than I'd like because of that.

I think I fired 10 rounds standing before I decided to fire crouched instead since it was so tiring to hold the rifle up without any anatomical support while at the same time wrestle with the monster trigger pull.

After 15 or 20 rounds my trigger finger was so tired from all that pulling that I ended up just locking my trigger finger and pulling back using my whole right arm from the shoulder. This was with my last five rounds and if I remember correctly from a crouched position 150 feet away from my target, which was a 50 foot slow fire pistol target, I only hit the paper with 4 out of 5 rounds. With a rifle that's pretty disappointing accuracy, but I was pretty seriously fatigued by then.

So, after this, question: is this mostrously difficult trigger pull typical on a Mosin Nagant? I've never experienced anything like it.


2.) Afterwards I had fun cleaning the Mosin Nagant. I removed the bolt and used patches and a bristle brush and Hoppes 9 in the barrel. I noticed that the crap that was flowing out of the barrel and on my patches was actually kind of dark blue in color. Dark blue? I'm used to black stuff coming out of a gun, but what could be dark blue?

In any case I got the barrel pretty clean and applied a bit of Hoppes oil to the metal parts.

3.) Maintenance! I would very much like to keep my seemingly antique Mosin Nagant in good condition. Does anyone have any tips on how I could maintain the wooden parts of the rifle? Should I use linseed oil on it?

I plan to use saddle soap to preserve the leather parts of my dog collar sling and the ammo pouch.



Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me. This is a very exciting hobby I'm finding myself drawn into, as someone who loves history.

Posted by: Crusher Bob Apr 7 2008, 05:59 AM

I think that the default pull on the Mosin-Nagant should be in the 10+ pound range, similar to firing a DA revolver.
Fiddling with the trigger is a pretty popular change to the rifle, so you should be able to find someone to improve things pretty easily.

[EDITS]
The dipping in cosmoline tends to make the stock leak oil on hot days. If you are shooting on a hot day, make sure to pay attention to your clothing, you may end up with oil all over it. Some people recommend leaving the wooden bits out in the sun for a while to try to sweat most of the cosmoline out.

Make sure you follow the directions on cleaning after using the cheap ammo, as it is almost certainly 'corrosive' ammo that contains various salts that need to be actually washed off with soap and water before you can get around to drying and oiling.

As for the dark blue stuff, I'm not sure. Copper deposits comming off the rifling may be blue (isn't copper sulfate blue?).
[/Edits]

Posted by: DTFarstar Apr 10 2008, 12:25 PM

I'm not currently into firearms(mostly because I'm broke), but I can contribute a little. Copper Sulfate is indeed blue, Crusher Bob. A rifle that old that may or may not have been cleaned before storage could easily have the sulfur and copper deposit necessary to come out blue in solution.

Chris

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Apr 19 2008, 10:23 PM

Well, I just noticed something today and I figured I'd ask about it.

When I fired the Mosin Nagant for the first time a week or two ago I had noted that the trigger pull was especially difficult. This was the same when firing live rounds and with dry firing.

After firing it I cleaned it out with some Hoppes 9 and lubed it.

Just now, I inspected the barrel and dry fired it as I'm planning to go shooting tomorrow morning. I noticed when dry firing that the trigger pull is considerably easier than last time I fired it...the rifle went "click" much more easily than last time.

Could it be that the lube made the difference? What else could it be?