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Posted by: Maelstrome Feb 5 2009, 03:50 AM

what do you think? is dice rolling luck or is it skill. are you deciding what they land on or is it just probability in motion? ive met people that believe in both and that believe it is both.

Posted by: evilgoattea Feb 5 2009, 03:55 AM

Well i think as far as what is rolled that is random (unless your playing with loaded dice then that is cheating). However I do believe certain systems are more dependant on luck and more based in stragety. I think the shadowrun dice pool system is more based on stragety. You usually can tell just by what you are trying to do and your dice pool size if you are going to succeed, like if you have 10 dice to jump a fence, odds are, you will succeed.

I think d20 is based more on luck because you are just rolling one die, even if you are trained in the skill it's still harder to determine whether or not your gonna make it because I have found the d20 to be a much more random.

This is just my two cents.

Posted by: Maelstrome Feb 5 2009, 04:05 AM

i share the same view as you but ive got a friend that swears up and down that all his rolls are skill and nothing else.

what are the odds of the first two posters in a thread being from a town called athens?

Posted by: TonkaTuff Feb 5 2009, 05:47 AM

I've always been under the impression that the entire point of using dice was to model probabilities on a more-or-less even playing field. Physically manipulating the dice so they land on the face that best benefits you (or so they have a higher chance of doing so - say, sliding, rather than actually rolling) smacks of cheating. Or is there some other way of applying 'skill' to a die roll that I'm missing?

Posted by: Blade Feb 5 2009, 09:41 AM

Someone told me that he once had a magician in their group who was able to roll exactly what he wanted with any six-sided die. (He needed more training with other dice). But once he started rolling more than one die, it was a lot more difficult.

Posted by: Maelstrome Feb 5 2009, 03:24 PM

i know a guy that can always roll 6 with 1d6 its a simple trick he sets the die with one facing up on the tip of his finger and drops it.

Posted by: Wesley Street Feb 5 2009, 05:27 PM

The results of dice rolls are a matter of random probability. You can play with statistical odds and make good bets but in the end it's up to which face the die lands on. Nothing more to it than that. If a player can call his roll every time, he's cheating and needs to roll his dice in a cup. Or use a digital die roller.

Posted by: evilgoattea Feb 5 2009, 11:56 PM

That's not really rolling a die then is it lol.

Posted by: Maelstrome Feb 6 2009, 12:03 PM

it is when its time to roll initiative and nobody is watching him.
lulz

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Feb 8 2009, 09:14 PM

Yeah, it's possible to shoot for certain results by carefully dropping your dice, but that's not the same as closing your fingers, giving the dice a big shake, and then casting them boldly across the table.

Posted by: evilgoattea Feb 11 2009, 11:29 AM

Yeah if i had a player who just dropped dice one at a time in order to get the result they wanted I would call shenigians on em for that, and make them shake their dice up real good or use a die rolling program. Making your dice land where you want by dropping them one at a time from your finger isn't rolling them and it is just plain cheating.

-Josh

Posted by: Dumori Feb 19 2009, 04:57 PM

I have a firend who can 90% of the time get the roll he wants. It can be quite silly even more so in war games.

Posted by: Wesley Street Feb 20 2009, 02:45 PM

Does he know how to count cards too? Time to hit Vegas.

Posted by: Dumori Feb 23 2009, 02:21 AM

He could learn XD. But it's freaky he's got to calling out 3 6s or what not and getting them
When he got 24 6s on 24 dice 2 times in a row I all most walhed away from the table. Really SR is the rpg for him.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Feb 23 2009, 03:07 AM

I think the casino staff would kick your ass for carefully dropping dice.

Posted by: Wesley Street Feb 23 2009, 09:34 PM

http://about.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?isbn=9780912177151&nrd=1&found=1&search=Golden%20Touch%20Dice%20Control%20Revolution&mode=about_casinogambling&, baby.

Posted by: jago668 Feb 24 2009, 05:10 AM

If you are really rolling your dice doesn't seem like there would be much control over it.

I've seen some pretty unlikely dice rolls also. I had a friend that picked up a d20, rolled it six times in a row getting a 1 everytime. He then picked up a second d20, and for the next five rolls got double 1s. If I did the math right (which I may not have) that comes up to 1.53 x 10^-19 %. I've seen five d6 comes up all 1s, which figures out to 0.013%. Sometimes the dice just come down weird, and I can't help but believe in luck sometimes.

Posted by: Wesley Street Feb 24 2009, 05:35 PM

From what I've read, in craps it is possible to control the way your dice land if you maintain the exact same throw over and over again. However it's a lot of muscle control and a lot of practice and some people can never master it. I doubt I'd have the patience to. And I don't like gambling unless I'm guaranteed to win.

Posted by: Dream79 Feb 26 2009, 11:49 AM

I used to be pretty good with manipulating dice rolls. I was even pretty good at hiding that I was doing it. Though since I'm not much for gambling and cheating at tabletop is just wonky I let those skillz wane. Though back when I was about sixteen the group would have me used a cup for awhile. I had to cover and shake the cup like nuts before dropping it. Though the GM could control the dice in the cup as well.

Though having that knowledge helps since I can spot players who are cheating. I've seen some try pulling the slide, others doing single die drops, to one guy who tried to just set the dice on the table after making a bad show of shaking them. I've never had to make a big deal about it. Just call the player out and peer pressure and ridicule from the other players solves the problem.

Posted by: Wesley Street Feb 26 2009, 02:23 PM

What kind of person cheats in a role-playing game? I mean, I hear stories about it, but why? Do you guys play Shadowrun for real money?

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Feb 27 2009, 02:14 AM

Someone might have an unhealthy attachment to or identification with their player character.

Posted by: pbangarth Feb 27 2009, 03:06 AM

I once new a guy who was the RPGA conduit for Living City and other "Living" AD&D campaigns in our area. He would order the modules and get them out to the GMs.

He would also read the modules and know where all the treasure was. And later, when playing his Living City character, would try to get all the treasure before all the other players got to it. He tried it once when I was GM at a convention. He actually pulled me aside and told me secretly what his character would do. I let him think I went along. He misdirected the other players and got to the treasure all alone. I dealt with it in a way that was fun for me and the players, who caught on to what was happening.

Years later I heard his character was one of the major players in the city council of Ravensbluff (the Living City). Go figure. He had huge wealth and all the big magic items. I guess that made him feel good.

Posted by: Wesley Street Feb 27 2009, 01:36 PM

People like that need therapy. Seriously. One of the reasons I enjoy P&P RPGs is that there are no "winners". It's a shared experience, not a competition. And who cares if a PC dies? Make a new one. Chargen is half the fun.

Well, maybe not half... but part of the fun.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Feb 28 2009, 01:30 AM

Well, yes, that's what most people think. But there are some total freaks out there who bring all their psycholgical crap to the table.

I suppose it could be worse. I mean, there are people who do worse things.

Posted by: Dream79 Mar 3 2009, 12:35 PM

Hmmmm, now there's an idea. hehe

As for therapy. I once played with a group that had a former player that used to play a 'japanese schoolgirl' in any game he played regardless of genre. Apparently when his character died (it was the first session with the group) he had a complete fit and threw his dice all over and locked himself in the host's bathroom while he had a nervous breakdown. Apparently it took them two hours to talk the guy (in his 20's BTW) out of the bathroom. The group seriously considered calling the police since they were worried he might commit suicide it was that bad.

Most people I've gamed with are cool people, but I have met some of the fringe of terminal basement dwelling geekdom with this hobby over the years and sometimes they can get pretty weird or even a bit spooky. I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't require background checks and psych evaluations before someone sits at my table. ;p