Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ General Gaming _ Warhammer 40k
Posted by: Mr. Mage Jul 26 2010, 04:41 PM
I was just wondering if there are any people who play Warhammer 40k in the Poughkeepsie area. I'll be heading back to New Paltz in about a month and for the most part only have 2 people to play with and I'd like to expand my horizons so to speak.
I play Orks and could MAYBE do 1000 points, probably a little less, but I'm always trying to add pieces so I can play in some of the really big games.
For the most part I'll be heading over to Dragon's Den every once in awhile to play, but it would certainly be much easier if I could make plans with other people rather than just show up and see who wants to play.
Posted by: Dumori Jul 26 2010, 05:12 PM
Well I play but I'm not in your area. I play Imperial manly SM, IG and Demonhunters. I tend to have my armies focused on the IG component with specialised back up from Deamonhunters or SMs as needed. Gives be fodder and shock troops plus SMs have some nice fast attack options. 
Posted by: Mr. Mage Jul 26 2010, 05:19 PM
I just added some Burna Boyz to my collection and I'm hoping to test them out. Had a Kommando squad with a Burna attached and the damage it caused was so sweet.
My Armies tend to be a Green Tide style army, with huge units composed of Ork Boyz led by a Nob or a Warboss and some specialized units for support. Favorite setup so far is a 30 ork squad of Boyz, a warboss, 3 bikers and a squad of Kommandos led by Boss Snikrot. Thus far: won about half of the games against one of my friends (he does Daemons or Eldar, whichever he feels like at the time) and I am undefeated against my other friend (Tau).
The game shop nearby in Poughkeepsie is only about a 20 minute drive from me and hosts a tabletop night every thursday, so I figured I'd start trying that, but thought it might be easier if I already knew some people...
Edit: So where do you play? If I ever find myself around there for whatever reason, maybe I could look you up. So that I might declare Waagh! on your puny humanz! BWAHAHA!
Posted by: Karoline Jul 26 2010, 05:31 PM
I used to play regular Warhammer, but I'm not in your area either.
Posted by: Dumori Jul 27 2010, 05:49 PM
Just wait till you face Necrons. Damn them coming back to life repeatedly. I've only lost with my 400point tournament army against orks and necrons and drew against space marines we basicly pined each other behind building as we both knew who ever enter the field of fire would be killed the next turn. The orks only won due to grot spam the necrons I must have killed that army 3times in total.
Posted by: Karoline Jul 27 2010, 07:39 PM
Not familiar with the exact things in 40k, but isn't 400 a kind of small army? In fantasy I generally ran a 1k army, and even did a few 2k battles, but maybe the numbers are different (Yeah, the 2k was massive and involved around 100 troops on each side)
Posted by: Mr. Mage Jul 27 2010, 08:11 PM
It really depends on what size you want to play/shell out the cash for. But yea, 400 is pretty small comparatively. Lately I've been playing 500 points but that's really only because Orks are damn expensive. I could have 30 ork boyz for 180 points, and they only sell them in packs of 11 ork boys...so it gets pretty expensive as compared to an army like Space Marines where you might get something like half that many models for 180 (and thus spend less money to build an army). I don't know the actual cost of SMs, but I'd be willing to bet I made a pretty good estimate.
Posted by: Karoline Jul 27 2010, 09:50 PM
Yeah, money can be an issue. Thankfully Lizardmen minis tended to come in boxes with like 30 of them. I think I fielded my 2k army with like 5 boxes of minis, and a couple of large creatures (Triceratops and the ultra fat frog king/shaman guy)
Posted by: Dumori Jul 28 2010, 10:42 AM
400 points is tiny to say I also have enough to field a 4th ed legal 5k-8k army. It's not 5th ed legal as a few models have options that can't be taken any more.
Also I hate my love for IG. The damn painting of 100s of them gets insanely tedious. I know in 4th ed you can play 100 as a squad of conscripts for a low point cost and that's only one squad out of up to 6. With out any suporting units.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Jul 28 2010, 01:20 PM
I hear ya, Orks have the same problem. And I take care to make them look really good, so I usualy end up spending several hours on on mini. So far, I've got 25 Ork Boys, 3 Ork Nobs and my Warboss painted. And only 200 more models to go! ugh
Posted by: Dumori Jul 28 2010, 02:29 PM
I tend to rush job my gurnts though seeing as I was taught to paint be golden daemon entreats its still a slow process. On officers or more sepcial squads I can spends ages. Rushing grunts tends to be production line as well base, second base, Base amour ect ect so I keep my paint mixes consitent per squad or two seeign as I tend to mix alot.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Jul 28 2010, 03:57 PM
I like to keep color schemes consistent, but tend to work on models one at a time instead of assembly lining them.
1) Black Spray Base Coat (Can do multiple models at once). I find using the spray cans for the base coat works really well, even coating and done very quickly. Metal models tend to have some problems since the paint kind of drips off of them, but that's easily remedied with multiple base coats over several days.
2) I usually paint the clothing/armor first, some shade of brown/brown red. This isn't always the same since orks don't always dress the same (in my vision of what they should look like at least).
3) Next I do the skin, and this takes a long time. I start out with a coat of Orkhide Shade, a very VERY dark green, then when that dries I put on a coat of GOblin Green, letting some of the Orkhide show through, then a drybrush coat of Snot Green and finally add some light highlights of Camo green.
4) Any other armor/weapons, usually I use either black, silver or bone-white, depending on what the item is (guns are silver, handls for axes might be bone or just black.)
5) Squad colors: I like this part, easy to do but makes the model that much more interesting. I usually have a specific color/pattern that I apply to models depending on which squad they belong to. For instance, my ork mob with Shootas (assault rifles) have blue tiger strikes and braveheart style face paintings. This is either applied directly on the skin or on some of the weapons/armor. The idea is that they have a unifying characteristic without cluttering the model.
Of course, this all takes a long time to do, and sometimes I will spend an entire evening doing only one or two models. Luckily, I have been getting better at it and have started being able to spend less time to get pretty much the same quality.
Posted by: PBTHHHHT Jul 29 2010, 08:49 PM
if I ever play, I'll probably either be getting an IG or tau army. Probably tau, it appeals to my anime/sci-fi tastes.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Jul 29 2010, 09:34 PM
Your Tau shall fall before the might of the Orks! WAAAGH!!!!!
Posted by: eidolon Jul 29 2010, 09:56 PM
PBTHHHHT, I have a decent chunk of an IG Army that I'm taking offers on. Let me know if you're interested in details.
Posted by: Karoline Jul 29 2010, 10:17 PM
I don't even know what the races are for the most part.
Imperial, Orks, Eldar (or something like that for the elves)... I've played the video games, but don't know if all of those are actual races or not. I'd likely go with the bug guys if they're a real option.
Posted by: Critias Jul 29 2010, 10:30 PM
I've played my share.
Posted by: Dumori Jul 29 2010, 10:31 PM
Tyranids are ok swarmy Tau are over played massively or they where last time I look at least 60% of all army sI see are SM or Tau the other runners up are Orks and CSM tyrandi seam to be up there as well. Dark Eldar really need a revamp they are running with rule that don't quite work in 5th ed or 4th ed tbh. The other armys are more evenly split.
Tau are ok to begin with theres not much stratigic choice in what to field. Well less than other lists and they are quite easy to paint en-mass.
Posted by: Karoline Jul 29 2010, 11:22 PM
I'd likely play as either the Tyranids or the Necrons. I've always had a tendency towards the more 'xeno' races.
Posted by: Tanegar Jul 29 2010, 11:33 PM
If I were going to play 40k, it would be Thousand Sons/Tzeentchian Chaos Marines. For the Changer of Ways!
Posted by: Critias Jul 30 2010, 12:20 AM
I started out playing Dark Eldar. I love their fluff, but only played 'em for a few years because they just felt so top-heavy; their HQ and Elite choices were awesome, and their Troop choices mediocre at best, so it always felt like HeroHammer. Games would invariably come down to my boss man (and Incubi bodyguard) slashing up someone else's boss man (and Elite bodyguard), and often the whole game would come down to nothing more than my Combat Drugs and/or a Shadow Field (2+ invulnerable save) roll. Anything else that happened anywhere else on the table was a secondary or tertiary concern.
It was kind of boring, actually.
In recent years they've afforded them a few more options (like the all-Wych army) that are probably a little more fun or balanced or whatever...but by then I'd lost interest.
A Gaunt's Ghosts fan, after that I ran Imperial Guard. What better way to move entirely away from a melee-oriented HeroHammer game, right? I had a couple hundred of the old metal Cadian minis all duded up and ready to roll, and had a good time slinging buckets of dice. I didn't have a single Leman Russ, just a couple Chimera transports and a few Walkers -- and I had a blast. I'm an "infantry" guy at heart, and everyone loved seeing a Guard army that wasn't just "How many Tanks can you fit, on and two Troops choices, too." I loved the feel of the army, but it was a pain in the butt to haul that many models around, set that many models up, etc, etc. Financial woes reared their ugly head, and I sold them off.
Briefly overlapping with my time as a loyal dog-soldier infantry grunt in the Imperial Guard, I picked up a Space Wolf list. It gave me options. When I wanted to stand and shoot, I got my Guard. When I wanted to howl and charge, I played my Wolves (13th Company, in fact, once those rules came out). It was a fun list, and didn't feel as "HeroHammer" as my old Dark Eldar despite being very melee-centric, because everyone in the army was a roving hand-to-hand badass. This was the only 40k list I've ever played in a tournament, and everyone I played against was thrilled to see them -- they were just fun to play against, and I took crazy risks with them in true "glory, or die trying" fashion.
During one tournament, it was my 13th Company against a Khorne army, and every tournament judge came over to our table to watch the monstrous, horrible, glorious, bloodshed. What's more, it was a special scenario where both sides were supposed to come onto the table piecemeal...but 13th Company special rules allowed me to be there in my entirety; so really, the game was "big 13th Company army gobbles up Khorne army a unit as a time as it wanders onto the board." The judges, and my opponent, liked that I'd initially asked for permission to change the scenario, because I felt it was unfair to my opponent. They all shook their heads, and said I deserved to catch a break for being the only person they'd ever seen bring 13th Company to a tournament -- even my opponent! -- so we all just relaxed and watched the face-eating commence.
Rules changes came and went, money came and went, my interest in 40k came and went...I sold off my Wolves to a new kid just getting into the hobby, and now...
Now...
*looks around nervously*
Now I just play Vanilla Marines.
I know, I know! It's all backwards of me, to start with "complex" armies and work my way towards the "noob list," but that's just how the dice fell. I like the simplicity of painting Space Marines. I like the rock solid reliability of their fluff, the streamlining of rules in the latest edition made them dirt simple to keep track of (compared to the complexity of my other wargames), and I got some really good deals from the Space Marines vs. Orks boxed sets (bought in "halfies" with several Ork-playing friends). I have a Mechanized Infantry type list, with transports for every unit (but a couple Scouts), and it's just kind of fun to have a dirt-simple, basic, no frills, "boots on the ground" sort of toy soldier list. I've got a unit of Devastators, a ten-man Assault Squad with Jump Packs, two units of Scouts...and Tactical Marines. Just guys with bolters, doing the Emperor's work. No fancy rules, no jinky tricks to surprise my opponents with, just a fairly mobile (thanks to Rhinos and Razorbacks), fairly resilient, AK47-reliable army for some dakka-dakka.
Good, clean, fun.
Posted by: Tanegar Jul 30 2010, 01:06 AM
I have to admit, there is a certain je ne sais quoi to a good, simple, shooty Space Marine force. Like you said, they're not fancy, they don't rely on tricky stunts, they just march forward and blow the living fuck out of anything that gets in their way. It's a brand of badass all its own.
Posted by: Critias Jul 30 2010, 01:13 AM
I've got just enough assault ability to still throw down and have a good time, when it's what's called for -- my Chaplain (converted Emperor's Champion model) leading a 10-strong Assault Marine squad, all with jump packs -- so I'm not just shooting...but, yeah. I like the trusty bolter dakka-dakka sound, I like the idea of 10-man squads all in the same armor, advancing almost in step with one another, with a single heavy weapon and a single assault weapon between them, I like the "Codex" feel...the uniformity of it is fun, to me, with Space Marines. The relentless, grinding, advance.
Posted by: Karoline Jul 30 2010, 02:07 AM
Check out history channel! Some military armored suit exoskeleton thing on right now. Totally looks like the first step to power armor 
Edit: Darn, they changed subject to cyborgs
Posted by: Dumori Jul 30 2010, 02:25 AM
I started out Space Marines was a toss up them or Tau. I then move one to demon hunters and finaly IG. I however tend to mix and match with the ally rules. A favrate of mine is a IG base army with inqistion stroom troopers, Inquestilord and retinue, assassin of choice if so inclined and a few grey knights. This give me an army with a huge chunk of "fodder" IG squads can hold their own back up with mechanised stormtrooper suport both inqustinolal and base IG the latter mounted in Valkyries as they are awesome hunter killers. Plus a deepstriking squad of grey knights can really turn the tide. If I'm playing huge points I tend to have 1 landraider for my inquisitor lord and hand full of chimeras a valkyre, sentinels and a few tanks.The only real down side is that it's a broad army it doesn't have a niche or a weakness. How ever it plays really well has a nice theam and is a rare army to see fielded. I've been toying with maybe adding soem grey knight terminators and dropping my inqusitor down a notch. A IG swarm with +2 and +3 armor heavy hitters deepstriking could be fun. As they'll likely take the focus of the oponets fire powe letting my other men move in unmolested and even if they don't they pack enought of a pucnh in assault and shooting to cause havok.
Posted by: Critias Jul 30 2010, 02:30 AM
I didn't mention them (because I've never used them), but I've also got 60 -- yes, sixty -- of the old metal Stormtrooper models (sometimes called the "SWAT" Stormtroopers) all painted up and ready to go. A buddy of mine that's an excellent painter had recently lost his job, I saw a crazy huge lot of Stormtroopers on eBay for cheap, and in order to (a) give him some money without (b) giving him the money, he painted them all up for me.
I need to check out whatever Inquisitorial Codex is currently rules legal, and look into a way to add them to a Marine list (or vice versa)...it'll be like Space Marines and their little brothers. My Scouts will get to feel like badasses compared to someone!
Posted by: Dumori Jul 30 2010, 06:06 PM
Well the use of demonhunter in 5th ed is iffy atm. A new codex in on the books. But I think the allies rule are still the same as in 4th ed so it should be ok. But you have to play a base army with DH allies as the army list of the other have changes so you can't play a DH army with IG allies (really) and the same is likely true with SMs
Posted by: Mr. Mage Jul 30 2010, 06:16 PM
I was thinking of a DH army as a secondary, especially with Grey Knights, but if the codex is iffy, I'll probably wait. Of course, I've also bee interested in starting a 'Nids army as well as a Space Wolves army, so maybe I'll look into one of those next.
For now though: WAAAGH!!!!
Posted by: Dumori Jul 30 2010, 06:24 PM
It's not iffy to use as a second it is to use as a primary in a mixed force. Just as always new codex incoming means well you could have to remake the army again in a year/few months.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Jul 30 2010, 06:33 PM
Yea...I'll probably stay with Orks for a while... they're fun to play, can actually win sometimes, and are great for comedy. Plus they don't seem to change all that much with newer addtions of the game (though I must say, 4th edition "Mob Rule" kicked so much more ass than the current version of the rule).
Plus I'd rather spend my money on new Orks or terrain (either building my own or buying preconstructed)
Posted by: Mäx Aug 2 2010, 05:49 AM
If i ever have enought spare cash and if they finally realese that xenos hunters codex, i will play Deathwatch. Their just so badass.
But untill then i just read the novels.
Posted by: Critias Aug 2 2010, 07:41 AM
Plus I'd rather spend my money on new Orks or terrain (either building my own or buying preconstructed)
Orks are certainly doing well right now. They're a very competitive list (if built for it), and they're not as pathetically "hah hah" as they were in earlier editions. GW really hit the right balance with 'em this edition/codex, I think...fun and with some amusing abilities, but still plenty dark and scary instead of just being comic relief.
Before the move, Orks were far and away my most common opponent (my two regular 40k buddies both played 'em). It led to some really fantastic battles that fit the fluff perfectly -- stalwart Marines standing fast against the oncoming green horde, and with neither side sure who was winning until the bitter, bloody, end.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 2 2010, 01:44 PM
Before the move, Orks were far and away my most common opponent (my two regular 40k buddies both played 'em). It led to some really fantastic battles that fit the fluff perfectly -- stalwart Marines standing fast against the oncoming green horde, and with neither side sure who was winning until the bitter, bloody, end.
Oh, I know they're more balanced and more competitiive now, but I miss some of the older rules still. I can't remember which edition it was, but one of the rules for Orks using grenades (or stikkbombs, as they called them) was to roll a die. On a certain result, the ork throws the pin instead of the grenade, resulting in casualties of course. That would always crack me up!
Posted by: Karoline Aug 2 2010, 01:53 PM
So, I borrowed a copy of the core book from a friend, and read through the Tyranid stuff, and I really like them. I get a feel that the battle could turn hugely based on a stroke of bad luck or poor planning since they have a bunch of really expensive models, but at the same time, I see a bunch of potential for causing true mayhem in enemy lines and they do have some real cheap screeners (6 point fleet models with 2 attacks 
, for 10 points they get extra S and I when they attack and do damage when they die )
Now I just need to scrape together a bunch of money to get some models and painting stuff (Used to have some, but I don't even know that it is still around)
Posted by: Karoline Aug 2 2010, 03:53 PM
Am I the only one that is surprised that there isn't a true warhammer 40k video game? Like that uses the actual 40k rules as opposed to the current computer games (Which are cool, don't get me wrong)? I mean they made blood bowl as a true adaptation, they wasted alot of time on blitz, but the classic game is there exactly as you would play it on tabletop with only a couple omissions (like goblin bombs for some reason, and the ability to not reroll with abilities that grant rerolls).
Would be very cool if I could play real warhammer 40k without investing hundreds of dollars in minis and hundreds of hours painting them all (or more $ having someone else paint them)
Posted by: Tanegar Aug 2 2010, 06:39 PM
It does seem like a bit of an oversight. AFAIK, there isn't even a MegaMek equivalent (http://megamek.sourceforge.net/ being a free, open-source Java implementation of http://www.classicbattletech.com/).
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 2 2010, 07:55 PM
Would be very cool if I could play real warhammer 40k without investing hundreds of dollars in minis and hundreds of hours painting them all (or more $ having someone else paint them)
Yea, but how well did Blood Bowl do? It hasn't gotten a lot of ad time from what I can see, leading me to believe that it wasn't very popular.
Also, I don't really think a "true" warhammer 40k VG adaptation would be all that great. Part of the allure, for me at least, is the actual physical models themselves. Painting them, gluing them to look how you want and even modifying them with leftover bitz helps get you that much more involved in the setting. A Video Game would kind of take away from that.
Although, since Dawn of War did pretty well, maybe I'm just being silly and a "true" videogame adaptation would be better than the second coming of christ.... who knows?
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 2 2010, 08:06 PM
Also, anyone else excited about the announced Dark Millennium Online? I know I am...
I just can't deiced whether I want to play Orks (WAAGH!) or Space Marines (Love the novels!)
Plus it looks like, maybe, TITANS!?
http://www.darkmillenniumonline.com/
Edit: Yes, I know that the trailer has been out for a while. Karoline's comment about video games just made me think of this.
Posted by: Tanegar Aug 2 2010, 08:41 PM
All I want to know is whether I will be able to play a Thousand Sons sorcerer. I don't imagine I'll stick with the game any longer than I did Warhammer Online, but it should at least be good for a month or two.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 2 2010, 08:52 PM
Have you played any other MMOs besides WAR? IMO Age of Rckoning is pretty much just a WoW ripoff (yes, I know Warcraft is a Warhammer ripoff, but blizzard made WoW before Mythic made WAR)
From the trailer, Dark Millennium looks like it will be more of an shooter style MMO (you can see a targeting reticle at one point).
And I'm sure you'll be able to at least play some sort of CSM psyker, if not a Thou Sons sorcerer. It just wouldn't be Christmas without it...er...Warhammer without it!
Posted by: Tanegar Aug 2 2010, 09:01 PM
I've played WoW and EVE Online extensively, although I never really got into the PvP part of EVE; I've also played City of Heroes, Champions Online, EverQuest, Star Trek Online, and of course Warhammer Online.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 2 2010, 09:40 PM
Was just curious whether you not playing WAR a lot was because you liked different MMOs more or because MMOs just weren't your thing (either or is fine by me, just curious)
Posted by: Karoline Aug 2 2010, 09:55 PM
It did exceedingly well. They are making an expansion for it that includes all the races they left out on the original pass (about 13 or so, mostly the ones with a 'this race is really exceedingly ultra hard to play' disclaimer, or a couple with the 'you aren't going to win often' disclaimer)
Although, since Dawn of War did pretty well, maybe I'm just being silly and a "true" videogame adaptation would be better than the second coming of christ.... who knows?
True, I know part of the appeal is having the models and stuff, but I still think there would be a huge number of people who would get and play a video game version. Heck, I'd imagine even you would get it just so you can try out different races from time to time and such without having to dump a couple hundred dollars in minis. And think how much quicker it would be with the game automatically picking out hits and remembering all the rules and everything for you.
Oh, and of course if people are just starting out, it gives them a chance to try out different stuff and see how it works, so they don't buy some big tank mini that they end up not using all that often.
Honestly, I don't imagine it would be that hard to make either. I mean if they just grabbed the people who did DoW and DoW II, they'd already have all the models ready, including how they look moving and firing and everything. They'd just need to set up everything, which I imagine would be too hard for a turn based game.
Heck, I know I could write programs to do all the basic rolls in no time, measuring distances would be easy, etc. Still plenty of work, but given how many people got a game like blood bowl, I'm sure they could easily have it be worth their while.
Posted by: Karoline Aug 2 2010, 09:56 PM
From the trailer, Dark Millennium looks like it will be more of an shooter style MMO (you can see a targeting reticle at one point).
And I'm sure you'll be able to at least play some sort of CSM psyker, if not a Thou Sons sorcerer. It just wouldn't be Christmas without it...er...Warhammer without it!
Oh yeah, you might want to check out fallen earth. It is a shooter style MMO and is quite a bit of fun.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 2 2010, 10:09 PM
Planetside was a pretty good Shooter/MMO...too bad it never caught on
Posted by: Karoline Aug 2 2010, 11:21 PM
Oh, I remember that (I think) it was fairly good.
Posted by: Karoline Aug 3 2010, 07:52 PM
So, since it is a favorite past time of mine, I went through and made a couple Tyranid Armies. I think they're decent, but I don't really have anything to compare them to, so I figured I'd post them to see what people though. If I do decide to get into this, I want to know I have at least a reasonable army before I buy a bunch of models.
Army 1: Fairly standard 'advance and kick butt' army. 1000 points
Lurk means that if there is no synapse creature within 12", it must pass a leadership test or it is unable to move or assault, but may still shoot and use powers.
Synapse Creature means units within 12" are fearless, and will automatically rally if within 12" at movement.
Shadow in the Warp means enemy psykers within 12" must roll 3d6 for their powers, and any double 1 or double 6 causes perils of warp.
So the basic idea is to run up to the enemy with Tereagants shielding my Warriors (Who have the prime attached) while the Trevigon advances, pumping out reinforcements on the way which act as its honor guard to get the boosts for being within 6", and the biovores rain down pain, which even if they miss still generate bombs that will either blow up on the enemy eventually anyway, or each bomb can tie up an entire enemy unit's shots if they want to clear them out.
I'll post the other army later, that took quite a while to write out.
Posted by: Dumori Aug 3 2010, 07:56 PM
Today I brought a devisator squad for the sake of painting a death watch squad. £20 I can't really aford to spend.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 3 2010, 09:26 PM
@Karoline:
I lightly skimmed over your army, but don't really know much about running 'Nids, so can't offer much of my own experience.
From what I can see at first, it seems solid for the beginnings of a swarm. The trevigon is a nice little touch, with the chance to add some additional gaunts to your army (just make sure to buy enough pieces, a lot of people can get really picky about letting you use proxies).
One of my friends (who unfortunately goes to RIT, so I can't game with him very often) plays 'Nids and says that one of his favorite and most effective strategies is to field massive swarms of gaunts. Can't remember which is which, but he prefers the melee gaunts over the ranged ones (hormagaunts or termagaunts, can't remember which one is melee), and will simply overrun all opposition by assaulting.
According to him it is pretty effective and wins quite a bit against "elite" armies of Tau or Eldar. I must say I have similar success as my Orks are composed almost entirely of Ork Boys (Troop, 6 points apiece) and a Warboss (HQ) with either a small contingent of Kaommandos (Elite) or Warbikers (Fast). My friend who plays Eldar Elites usually remarks that it is hard to keep up with me since my boys can soak just as much damage as his rangers/banshees, are amazing in melee, and outnumber him 3 to 1. Can't say whether this translates well to 'Nids, but since they are a swarm army, I'd imagine it would.
It's good of you to have a plan for your army as well, but I've found that after a few battles with small stuff, you start changing your plans around. I was originally not going to use Burna Boys (Orks with Flamethrowers, Oh my!) but after witnessing my Tau friend utterly demolish one of my mobs with them, I figured I'd have to try them out...
Plans are nice, all I'm saying is they're bound to change eventually so don't commit to that army too quickly...
Of course, i believe you said you used to play Warhammer Fantasy, so maybe you're already familiar with what I'm saying and I've been ranting for too long.
I'm gonna stop now.
Posted by: Karoline Aug 3 2010, 10:43 PM
Yeah, that'd be the Homagaunts. Even with no add-ons at 6 points each they are
3 3 3 3 1 5 2 6 6+
With Bounding Leap (roll three dice when running, pick highest), Fleet, and Move through Cover. And they get to reroll 1s on melee attacks. For an extra 2 points each they can get Furious Charge which gives them an extra +1 I and S on a charge (Meaning 3 attacks at I6 and S4 with rerolling 1s to hit), and for another 2 points they get Poison 4+ so they can wound even very tough things without trouble (Makes the furious charge kinda pointless though, so usually only get one or the other). So yeah, I could totally see having an army with nearly a hundred of these being a serious danger to 'elite' troops. Their main weakness would be serious trouble taking down a tank. For that they could have a Hive Tyrant as the HQ guy who is a monstrous creature with strength 6, meaning he could beat down on tanks in melee (2d6+6 to beat rear armor? Yes please). Could also go with the Tervigon (Can act as HQ or Troops depending on certain things) as it would also have 2d6+5 against rear, and be able to sit around putting out even more troops. Yeah, you could literally field 100 of those guys with a mix of poison 4+ and furious charge, then have a Tervigon in the back to put out a couple dozen of the ranged guys to act as backup and tank destroyers.
Edit: And synapse range wouldn't be a big problem either, because if they get out of range and fail their leadership... they are simply required to attack enemies
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 3 2010, 10:49 PM
Ah yes... Furious charge, all Orks have it, and boy do I LOVE it!
Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 12:04 AM
I'm somehow unsurprised
Posted by: Critias Aug 4 2010, 12:18 AM
One thing to consider with a new 'Nid list is the dipping method of painting, especially for a horde/swarm type of list. I know lots of folks poo-poo it as a beginner technique, or "cheating" to get a fast paint scheme, or whatever...but I actually think it looks really good for Tyrannids, since I think it's got a kind of organic look to it that works really well for their chitinous armor and insectoid exoskeletons and crap.
Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 12:47 AM
Oh, forgot something on the Tervigon above. It has a ranged weapon
Okay, now for the other Tyranid Army I have planned out. It is notably more complicated in how it works.
So, basic plan is to get out a lictor as quickly as possible and put it deep in enemy territory, then deep striking my Marloc onto that point to cause template damage. It can then immediately re burrow if I want so it can deep strike again next turn, or I can leave it out to crush something (like maybe a tank). Long as my lictor and tyrant are on the field, reserve rolls are all 2+. The Trygon is there for psyker assassination mostly, popping up out of nowhere, dropping 12 S5 attacks on it, and disrupting its ability to use the warp. If the termagants aren't out already, they can follow the Trygon and push into the rear of enemy troops, distracting them so my small force of warriors can advance, along with my tyrant. This setup should be particularly good against vehicles thanks to all the monstrous creatures. Likely the biggest problem is it contains very very few models, so there is a good chance of being overwhelmed by numbers. Then again, maybe the Marloc will just eat everything and it'll be fine.
Posted by: Dumori Aug 4 2010, 04:04 PM
I'm starting work on a deathwatch army. It's hard to really work out what with them being on gray knight vet lvls. I'm planing on playing a 500 point army focusing on vetran units or sepsialiaed roles. If I go above 500 points I'll be adding honorgaurd and a perditor to it but I'm yet to start picking the list fully. One cool thing I want to toy with is the multi chapter aspect of death watch so adding members of chapters in certain roles. Such as ultramarine/progenitors in scouts iron hands in heavy support ext ect.
Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 04:46 PM
Oh, just remembered. From extensive use of scouts in Warhammer 40k VG, I wonder how effective having several teams of them is in the board game. Slap sniper rifles on all of them and take out entire units at a time with sniper fire, or at the very least pin them.
Posted by: Karoline Aug 4 2010, 07:25 PM
So, I figured I'd try and find out how much a full Tyranid army would cost me, and I quickly found that Games Workshop doesn't seem to make figures for all the Tyranid units. Is there another group that makes minis for 40k that might have the remaining ones?
Posted by: Critias Aug 5 2010, 12:07 AM
It used to be a pretty viable tactic, really. Scout Squads have always been some of my favorites, and their old line of metal models were among my favorite in the game (even the Shotgun guy looked badass!), with very dynamic poses, cool gear, you name it. I dug 'em. They had the same statline as full Marines, all across the board, except for a weaker armor save and a lower points cost. What wasn't to love? And Sniper rifles were the bees knees. Great range, always damaged on a 4+ (still do), and always hit on a 2+.
Then the latest Dark Angels Codex hit. A Codex that, for the most part, I really very much enjoyed, don't get me wrong...but that bumped Scouts into the Elite category. Elites? The new kids suddenly took up the same force organization slot as Dreadnaughts, Terminators, TechMarines, and Veteran squads? Huh. Well, that's kind of too bad...oh, and the latest edition made Sniper rifles hit on a normal to-hit roll, based on BS? Well, no biggy. They just went from a 2+ to a 3+, right?
And then the new Space Marine Codex came out, which the DA Codex was in many ways a sort of "dry run" for. It, too, is a very well made book, well laid out, gorgeous artwork, etc, etc...but now Scouts are WS/BS 3.
So if you keep playing with the Dark Angels rules (which I sometimes do), your Scouts are still pretty cool, but they take up an Elites choice. If you play with the vanilla Marine codex, your Scouts are back to being Troops, but they're just not nearly as awesome any more. They've got the basic WS/BS of Imperial Guardsmen, not Space Marines, and while their extra gear is very affordable (Sniper Rifles are free, in fact), comparing them to the previous edition of Space Marine Scouts make them look like bumbling idiots.
A unit that used to be able to hit on a 2+ now hits on a 4+, and that's just a huge, insurmountably huge, loss, to me. Sniper rifles wound half the time, and invariably allow an armor save...making them only hit half the time, too, just makes them not terribly useful. A full unit of 10 Scout/Snipers will only hit with five shots, will wound two or three times, and will likely, at most, inflict a single casualty once armor is taken into consideration (against most armies, sometimes it'll be two). It just doesn't have as big a payoff as it used to, in my book, when compared to a full-on team of Tactical Marines.
Add on that the Scouts now only have WS 3 for the inevitable melee that will ensue later in the game (at least that invariably ensued for me, since I played against Orks), and they're sadly just not terribly worth it in a Vanilla Marine list.
Posted by: Karoline Aug 5 2010, 12:23 AM
Well, there are two things you're forgetting. Pinning and rending. Sniper rifles force a pinning roll if they wound, and a 6 to wound bypasses armor. Since on average 5 hits are made, then you should slightly less than average get that 6 and so at least one wound per attack, often two. Their other potential advantage is that they can take on vehicles if they can get around back (Which they should be able to do with infiltrate and scout). Maybe not real well, but it is possible.
Still, yeah, it sounds like they got taken way down in power.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 5 2010, 01:26 PM
You could try Forge World... they make some normal units, but mostly they specialize in Titans and other large models. But like I said, they make some normal sized ones.
Posted by: Karoline Aug 5 2010, 04:22 PM
It seems they do have some very cool minis, but not the ones I'm looking for
I did a bit of searching, and it seems no one actually makes them, and found various posts on making your own custom one by combining/tweeking one or two other models. I also found a place that does it for you, and the final product is about $100. Looks like I may need to scrap my army that uses them for the moment. I'm going to head down to the local game shop today (Finally in the right town) and see if anyone plays 40k or anything. Maybe someone will have an extra army I can use.
Posted by: Mr. Mage Aug 5 2010, 05:39 PM
Okay...this has nothing to do with building armies...but I thought I'd share this with people.
http://somethingbadass.5.forumer.com/uploads/somethingbadass/post-3-1241476823.jpg
Hopefully that will get you there. If not, here's the http://www.cracked.com/funny-164-warhammer-40k/ it was posted in...
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 5 2010, 06:01 PM
I hate myself. I broke down and bought the Black Reach kit to get started.
Now I'm trying to figure out what Space Marine chapter I want to model my space marines after. I don't want to do Ultramarines for two reasons. I don't want to mimic the box art and I'm not a big fan of blue.
I tend to have an appeal and draw towards black and red which is one of the reasons Blood Ravens is appealing to me. I figure I can use the Dawn of War army painter to find some color combo that I like...
Posted by: Tanegar Nov 5 2010, 09:55 PM
If you paint your Marines as Blood Ravens, expect a degree of ridicule from long-time 40k grognards for your newbieness. IIRC from my time at 40kforums.com, they tend to look down on players brought in by Dawn of War. If you like black and red, try Blood Angels.
Posted by: Karoline Nov 5 2010, 10:01 PM
What about people who come from Warhammer Fantasy?
Blood Angels sound cooler anyway.
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 8 2010, 12:27 PM
Of course they do.
Imperial Fists has a color scheme I could get behind. Nothing like yellow to assail your opponent's eyes.
Posted by: Karoline Nov 8 2010, 03:14 PM
Yeah, but yellow would be really hard to get clean of the blood of your enemies. Unless they have yellowish blood I suppose.
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 8 2010, 03:35 PM
Hmm. Yellow would make it easier to put blood on the miniatures. Especially ones that have a more close combat model...
Also, some questions about miniatures.
General:
Do you typically paint then assemble or assemble then paint?
Black Reach Specific:
# I'm having a lot of difficulty with assembling the Ork Warboss. It comes in four or five pieces and I cannot get the alternate side of his claw to attach and I can't get the back piece to fit in.
# I'm also having trouble with the Ork Deffkoptas. I've done 1/3 so far. It seems like I have to apply a lot of pressure to get the blades to sit on top and the head and arms to this model isn't setting properly either. Also, when I put the the one I've "completed" on the stand, it tilts badly.
# The stand for the Dreadnought has NO hold in the top. It has about 5 hole locations on the bottom, but I can't for the life of me believe this is intended.
# I had 4 little bits that I can't for the life of me figure out what they're supposed to do. It's 2 skulls and 2 things that look like some ammo. My guess is that they're meant to be planted with the Terminator models.
Posted by: Karoline Nov 8 2010, 03:48 PM
When I first started painting, I assembled and then painted, partly because I wanted to use my figures before I got around to painting them, but found that created some real difficulties and trying to paint at very odd angles, so I moved to painting the parts and then assembling them.
I'm guessing the skulls and ammo are just base decoration.
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 8 2010, 03:57 PM
I'm guessing the skulls and ammo are just base decoration.
I have a couple of concerns about doing paint -> assemble.
# Chipping. Applying pressure to put the pieces together could cause the paint to chip.
# Painting itself. Some of the pieces have barely any room to grip them that doesn't get painted. So this leads me to believe that painting a portion of the surface, then letting it dry would be how you would need to deal with it, but I would be worried about getting uneven coats.
# Gluing. Some of my parts do not fit snugly, are quite loose, and demand that they get glued on. If the glue was a tad much it could seep out. Not so much with assemble->paint because you can just file off the excess glue, but if you do it the other way around, you risk filing off paint....
Posted by: Karoline Nov 8 2010, 04:13 PM
I never found chipping during assembly to be a problem. You don't generally put that much pressure on the piece. Or at least not with the pieces I was using.
For painting what I did was attach them via an area that would be covered with another piece (like the shoulder socket) to a nail head with a dab of glue. It allowed me to paint the entire piece without touching anything, and I could move them easily on the nail. The nails themselves were stuck into Styrofoam.
Gluing however can be a problem. My best suggest is to be careful with the gluing and try not to go overboard with it. Also, you can look for any glue seeping out while it is still fresh, and then brush it away with a paper towel or something similar so that it doesn't get a chance to dry. Personally I found this to be far less of a problem than having trouble reaching parts of figures when they are assembled, but to each their own.
Maybe try 5 figures in each style and see what you find easier. It might also vary from figure to figure, based on figure size and how much its parts get in the way of each other. You also have the option of just doing base colors before assembling them, and then finer details that are easy to reach after assembling them.
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 8 2010, 04:19 PM
At this point, I don't have very many unassembled minis left and trying to break apart some of them seems impossible without apply more pressure than I want to. I'm thinking it would be best with space marines. I noticed that the biggest difficulty with painting them would be that their guns cross in front of their chests and those come off easy enough, along with the back pack. Ork boyz seems to not matter much each way. There's very little in the assembled model that covers up other parts of itself.
Posted by: Karoline Nov 8 2010, 04:23 PM
Yeah, wouldn't suggest trying to beak them apart
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 8 2010, 04:50 PM
Personally, I find painting Imperial Guard soldiers with a red flak jacket to be appropriately humorous.
I would like to make pink and green into some army....
Posted by: Karoline Nov 8 2010, 05:01 PM
I would like to make pink and green into some army....
Tyranid maybe?
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 8 2010, 05:59 PM
Chaos maybe....
Posted by: Tanegar Nov 8 2010, 07:32 PM
If you go Chaos, go Thousand Sons. Blue and gold is an awesome color scheme, plus nobody ever plays Tzeentch. The Changer of Ways needs more love, not like that whore Slaanesh.
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 8 2010, 08:19 PM
Damnit. I want my Chaos army to be pink and green as to confuse its enemies.
Posted by: IcyCool Nov 9 2010, 12:30 AM
I'm a Thousand Sons player (and have about 2,000 points of Tyranids as well). But I'm out in the frozen reaches of Montana, so I don't often get a game these days.
Posted by: Zyerne Nov 9 2010, 01:12 AM
For a while, my son wanted an army of pink Marines. He's changed his mind and wants a Daemonhunters army now.
I dread to think the reaction he'd get to pink Grey Knights.
Posted by: Critias Nov 9 2010, 02:48 AM
I'm pretty sure one of the Chaos Chapters, Slaanesh one, actually uses pink. My 40k books are still boxed up from the move (haven't found a local wargaming crew, so no need to open the boxes yet, I guess), but I think I remember a black-and-pink Chaos paint scheme...a fleshy, throbbing, pink, naturally, but I don't remember which Slaanesh-humping Chapter it was.
Posted by: Zyerne Nov 9 2010, 02:55 AM
Emperor's Children I believe.
Posted by: Critias Nov 9 2010, 03:18 AM
A quick trip to Google Images confirms it. You win!
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 9 2010, 12:21 PM
I'm trying to understand a few meta aspects of the WH40k game. It's basically on it's 5th revision of the rules with the 5th codexes being current, yes?
Further, miniatures you may have bought during "1st edition" would still be usable in "5th edition"?
Posted by: Tanegar Nov 9 2010, 01:46 PM
IIRC, as long as it's WYSIWYG, it's legal. That is, every upgrade noted in your army list must be represented visually on the appropriate model. If your veteran sergeant has krak grenades, the model had better have a grenade in one hand, or a bandolier of grenades, or some part to indicate that he's carrying krak grenades.
Posted by: StealthSigma Nov 9 2010, 02:01 PM
Just a note. If you're going to use an acronym to a new player. Generally it's a good idea to define the letters of it.
Posted by: IcyCool Nov 9 2010, 02:41 PM
WYSIWYG = What You See Is What You Get
Basically, it is what was mentioned above, although not entirely as stringent (if there isn't a plastic or metal bit that represents a piece of gear, you do not have to model it, just mention it to your opponent). And WYSIWYG is usually only really important in the tournament scene. Among friends its not a big deal, as long as you mention what gear those models are supposed to have before the start of the game.
Posted by: Critias Nov 10 2010, 08:08 PM
Fifth sounds about right for most of them, yes. For others -- Dark Eldar, let's say, since I know they haven't had five -- it's safest to just say "the most recent" codex is current.
In theory, yes.
As long as the model you want to use represents something that is still possible within the current edition's rules, yes, it's allowed. If a prior edition let you take a Space Marine Captain with a rocket launcher, and you can't equip them with that under the current codex, though, Lucy's got some 'splainin' to do if you want to use that model.
If your model is just something basic and tried-and-true and always likely to be legal, though, like an Imperial Guardsman with a basic rifle, or a Space Marine with a bolter? You're good to go, no matter how old the model is, how different it looks stylistically from the current stuff, etc, etc.
Posted by: Warlordtheft Nov 16 2010, 04:41 PM
I dropped out after the 3rd edition. Played one game and decided that due to the oversimplification, it no longer held my interest.
Posted by: capt.pantsless Nov 16 2010, 07:50 PM
I've got about 3/4 of a Tyranid army, and around 2/3 of a Space Marine Crimson Fists army painted, and sadly gathering dust in my basement. For me, the games end-up taking too much time and space for my current limitations. That and I never had the attention-span to paint an entire army (see above).
I even went to a Rogue Trader Tournament at Gen-Con with a half primer-colored army.
Basically, it is what was mentioned above, although not entirely as stringent (if there isn't a plastic or metal bit that represents a piece of gear, you do not have to model it, just mention it to your opponent). And WYSIWYG is usually only really important in the tournament scene. Among friends its not a big deal, as long as you mention what gear those models are supposed to have before the start of the game.
/Agree
The amount of WYSIWYG needed is dependent on how good of a friend your opponent is. I've played home games where we used cardboard boxes as Dark Eldar Raiding Skiffs, but if you're walking into a Tourny, you'll generally want to be as close as possible.
The big thing is if everything is represented on the models, your opponent doesn't need to keep asking you: "Where's the rocket-launcher guy again?"
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)