Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ General Gaming _ Dawn of War II
Posted by: Tanegar Dec 7 2010, 06:43 AM
First, the good. Dawn of War II feels a lot more like 40k than Dawn of War did. The first one had its moments, but at the end of the day felt more like a generic sci-fi RTS dummied up to look like 40k. I can't really put my finger on why DoW2 does better in this regard, and YMMV. Also, the graphics are great. A marked improvement over DoW, and even Supreme Commander (my previous high-water mark for graphics in an RTS), although I doubt DoW2's graphics would look anything like as good on the scale of Supreme Commander.
Then, the bad. The unit AI is atrocious, and the primary means of taming it is gone. In DoW you could manually set a level of aggressiveness for each squad: either they wouldn't move from their position even when getting hammered, would pursue enemies a short distance and then return, or pursue any foe who came near as long as they could still see it. In Dawn of War II, that last option is the only option. If an enemy squad picks a fight, starts losing, and runs away, your squad will happily chase them across the entire map, more likely than not right into the guns of other enemy squads, and there is apparently no way to curtail this behavior other than by personally checking on each squad every minute or so like an overprotective mother. The level of micromanagement necessary both renders moot any complaints about tiny armies (and they are tiny; if you have more than half a dozen squads at any time you must be churning out cannon fodder) and saps much of the fun from the game.
Dawn of War II's primary draw for me has been the Last Stand gametype, wherein you and two other players control one hero apiece and try to survive waves of AI attackers.
Bottom line: As an RTS, I give it 5/10. As a multiplayer third-person action game, 8/10. Make of that what you will.
Posted by: Stahlseele Dec 7 2010, 08:59 AM
The Chaos AddOn is out.
And the Ork AddOn is slated for release first quarter of the coming year i think.
Posted by: Tanegar Dec 7 2010, 02:57 PM
I have Chaos Rising. Probably should have mentioned that in the OP, but oh well. I can't see myself buying any further expansions, though, unless they fix the bloody AI.
Posted by: Stahlseele Dec 7 2010, 03:20 PM
Well, the Orky AddOn looks promising to me.
You can Play Orks and i think Chaos too.
Maybe even Eldar and Imps in addition to the baseline Spess Mehrens!
Posted by: Karoline Dec 7 2010, 03:48 PM
I'd personally love a game that is simply the actual tabletop game on a computer. Bloodbowl did this and it has been highly successful (If the release of a squeal is any indication). I don't know what it is about people in top spots thinking that people who want to play/watch X actually want to play/watch something that is kind of vaguely X but is really Y with some X like trappings. I don't want to play an FPS, I want to play Shadowrun. I don't want to play a football game, I want to play bloodbowl. I don't want to play an RTS, I want to play Warhammer. I don't want to watch a movie that is loosely based on a book, I want to watch a movie that is actually based on a book.
I just don't understand how people get the thought process of: "Wow, this is really popular exactly as is, I should change a ton of stuff completely randomly and hope it remains as popular."
LotR for example did a very good job of keeping to the actual story, and it was amazingly popular. Eragon kinda sorta almost had the same vague story, and to my knowledge wasn't all that popular overall (I disliked the movie alot).
Okay /rant
I think the real difference between DoW 1 and 2 is the emphases on the base. In DoW 1 it was basically your focus point and the game played out more or less the same as any other RTS. In DoW 2 the base is basically (no pun intended) just the place where you grab your units. The combat portion is more or less the same as any other RTS, but that deemphasis on the base brings the game more in line with tabletop where you don't even have a base.
Edit: I really hate fighting against orks because you have to micromanage sooo much thanks to their autorun-at-high-speed thing. I do enjoy the campaign at least though, because there you have way more control over your squads.
Posted by: Stahlseele Dec 7 2010, 04:31 PM
Well, as far as i understood, the Orky AddOn is going to add in base building again . . not sure though, due to being at work right now <.< *barf*
Posted by: Adarael Dec 7 2010, 06:17 PM
I never had any problems with my units charging after things unless I told them to attack a specific unit... Usually they'd continue firing on something and would chase it if I had told them to chase, but otherwise they'd stay put in whatever cover they were in. The only exception to this is Avitus in Terminator armor: he keeps *backing up*.
I'll investigate when I get home, but ... I don't know why you're having this problem.
Posted by: StealthSigma Dec 7 2010, 06:22 PM
I'll investigate when I get home, but ... I don't know why you're having this problem.
Matches my general experience. I always ran Avitus and Tarkus (using bolters over melee) for DoWII. They never chased. Same thing with Cyrus until I replace him with Davian.
Posted by: Karoline Dec 7 2010, 06:31 PM
Think he means in the multiplayer games. I seem to remember the units acting a bit odder then (Not to mention having more units to deal with).
Posted by: Tanegar Dec 7 2010, 07:47 PM
I just don't understand how people get the thought process of: "Wow, this is really popular exactly as is, I should change a ton of stuff completely randomly and hope it remains as popular."
LotR for example did a very good job of keeping to the actual story, and it was amazingly popular. Eragon kinda sorta almost had the same vague story, and to my knowledge wasn't all that popular overall (I disliked the movie alot).
Okay /rant
This. By great Cthulhu's naughty tentacles, THIS! ARE YOU LISTENING, RELIC?! THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS! MegaMek's brilliance stems entirely from the fact that it is BattleTech. It's not hard to figure out!
Posted by: Stahlseele Dec 7 2010, 08:11 PM
It's not computer-science people . . oh, wait . .
Posted by: StealthSigma Dec 8 2010, 12:20 AM
If anyone is interested in doing DoW2 coop send me a forum message. I've been keen on trying that out.
Posted by: Stahlseele Dec 8 2010, 10:20 PM
Ask me, when the Orky Addon is out, that will give me some time to get used to the game again ^^
Posted by: Voran Jan 28 2011, 10:59 AM
Figured I'd bump this rather than start my own thread. Just finished Chaos Rising for the 2nd time, still all 'pure in the eyes of the emperor' though I have to confess the Chaos/tainted gear is better. I mean, the only melta pistol i ended up with was a +3 corruption one.
Anyhoo, Steam is offering pre-purchase of the next expansion pack, though if its based on the DoW2 system structure, you'll probably just be able to adjust a .lua file and get all the bonus wargear even if you only purchase one 'set'. I'll likely go with the Imp Guard set, and as noted, .lua unlock the rest a week or two after the game gets released.
I do have to admit I'm interested in how they'll handle the power-creep of the storyline when you finally get back to playing your DoW2 force commander. From what I understand the Space Marine story in this expansion will be Capt Diomedes, which would allow for a slightly different power-setup, but still...by level 30, assuming they don't fall to corruption, your squad is fairly epic. I was never really fond of those games that reduced you to 0 in a sequel, but on the other hand in a way the gameplay of Chaos Rising made all the epic abils you gained in the up-to-20 game kinda ....minor, to the point that if you didn't have them you'd die immediately.
Posted by: Adarael Jan 28 2011, 05:48 PM
Do you know if (since they're including Imperial Guard wargear) there's a single-player Imperial Guard campaign? I will shit bricks if the answer is yes.
Posted by: Voran Jan 28 2011, 06:31 PM
My understanding is that there is a single player campaign for all 6 races, rather its kinda the same single player campaign but with different twist/approaches as you run through with a different race.
I'm guessing its like Dark Crusade in the sense that there was really only 1 'story' but your approach and outcome changed based on your chosen race.
Posted by: Adarael Jan 28 2011, 06:35 PM
Well, that "klonk" noise you heard was the brick hitting the floor. 
Awesome.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Jan 28 2011, 06:49 PM
I want them to give us some Sisters of Battle already.
Posted by: StealthSigma Jan 28 2011, 07:08 PM
Mmmmm.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 29 2011, 01:12 PM
Bolter Bitches. Nuns with Guns.
Fanwankery at it's finest *snickers* ^^
But thanks for reminding me of this, i will have to look around for more info on this next AddOn.
And probably either have to find my discs or try and pray that the steam stuff works <.<
edit:
i preordered retribution today. gonna try and get my grubbies on the collectors edition too!
Posted by: Fix-it Jan 29 2011, 08:58 PM
I'm guessing its like Dark Crusade in the sense that there was really only 1 'story' but your approach and outcome changed based on your chosen race.
I'm OK with this. Dark Crusade was the best part of DOW1.
as long as they don't go all Soulstorm on us...
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 29 2011, 11:43 PM
ech, i kinda hate the metamap thingie . . get one sector, go on to the next, go on to the next . . now you are losing the first sector again . . go back, take it again . . and the third sector is being lost in the mean time . . very frustrating <.<
Posted by: StealthSigma Jan 31 2011, 02:50 PM
Fanwankery at it's finest *snickers* ^^
But thanks for reminding me of this, i will have to look around for more info on this next AddOn.
And probably either have to find my discs or try and pray that the steam stuff works <.<
edit:
i preordered retribution today. gonna try and get my grubbies on the collectors edition too!
I preordered my copy off of steam.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 31 2011, 03:00 PM
The Ork Version?
Posted by: StealthSigma Jan 31 2011, 03:03 PM
The Imperial Guard version.
While I love the Orks, I have a soft spot for the Red Shirt Army.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 31 2011, 04:36 PM
*shrugs*
i'll be getting the non race collectors edition to get me all of those nifty wargears at once i think . .
Posted by: StealthSigma Jan 31 2011, 06:07 PM
i'll be getting the non race collectors edition to get me all of those nifty wargears at once i think . .
I'm not sure if Steam would be carrying the CE anyway. So it's buy one version now, then maybe pick up the others as DLC later if I feel like it. Plus I'm not sure what modes this wargear will be available in.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 31 2011, 06:11 PM
You'll be able to get the wargear by tinkering with the lua files again i guess.
still the same engine after all.
But i like me collectors editions ^^
and if i were a REAL collector, i'd play pokemon with these releases . .
Posted by: Voran Jan 31 2011, 10:56 PM
Yeah. And even if all the wargear aren't hidden in your lua files, wait a week and all the people with different versions will post THEIR lua wargear files which you then can simply add as a mod.
I'd only recommend the collectors edition if you want other stuff, but not really for the extra wargear.
Posted by: Stahlseele Jan 31 2011, 11:27 PM
well, i'm still getting it.
got the collectors edition of all games i bought from retail.
Posted by: Fix-it Feb 3 2011, 08:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrCY7dgaqs&feature=youtu.be
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 3 2011, 10:33 PM
i loled ^^
Posted by: Fix-it Feb 4 2011, 02:17 AM
http://thxforthe.info/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/drive-me-closer.jpg
Posted by: ShadowFighter88 Feb 4 2011, 12:36 PM
I'd only recommend the collectors edition if you want other stuff, but not really for the extra wargear.
And if that doesn't work, just wait til they're all released as DLC. They've already announced that'll happen.
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 4 2011, 07:01 PM
noez, i can not wait!
must achieve instant gratification!
Posted by: Sengir Feb 20 2011, 06:12 PM
So, what does Dumpshock think of the beta? And no Manticore discussions please
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 20 2011, 08:22 PM
what beta?
Posted by: Sengir Feb 20 2011, 08:27 PM
The open beta for Retribution, available on Steam to everybody who has DOW2 or CR
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 20 2011, 08:28 PM
good to know! thank you!
do i have to have it installed if i want to get the beta?
ah i love me a 50MBit line. in 30 minutes, i'll have BOTH parts installed completely remotely by connecting to my home computer from work via my streak 5" . .
and you know why? BECAUSE I CAN!
Posted by: Sengir Feb 20 2011, 08:45 PM
Good question...select your beta participation in the Steam settings and find out
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 20 2011, 11:08 PM
bah, it's only multiplayer <.<
Posted by: Sengir Feb 21 2011, 06:05 PM
"only" hardly does justice to the great MP mode 
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 22 2011, 12:05 AM
sorry, i don't like multiplayer all that much, especially in RTS <.<
Posted by: StealthSigma Feb 22 2011, 12:44 PM
The only RTS multiplayer I've ever liked has been Total War and Myth/Myth 2.
Posted by: Sengir Feb 22 2011, 01:40 PM
Me neither, but DOW 2's MP is sufficiently different from standard RTS
Posted by: Stahlseele Feb 22 2011, 02:27 PM
Its kinda like Warcraft 3/Frozen Throne.
Posted by: Tanegar Feb 22 2011, 03:07 PM
I was just thinking the other day I'd love to see another Myth game.
Posted by: StealthSigma Feb 22 2011, 05:58 PM
RTS have tried to capture the tactical aspect of battles, but they almost always fail at doing so. For the most part, I liken you "army" of units in a SC/WC style of RTS to a single unit in a Total War game.
I'm still convinced that Myth is the only RTS that has properly captured an "individual" as a single unit.
Posted by: Voran Feb 23 2011, 06:44 AM
I do kinda wish they did another round of Company of Heroes RTS, but not the weirder stuff like Tales of Valor. I like the idea of veteran units transferring to the new map, etc.
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 3 2011, 09:44 AM
So . . Retribution . . 6 Races is all nice and stuff . . but right now, it seems to me that you only play the same campaign with all 6 races . .
Posted by: X-Kalibur Mar 3 2011, 05:10 PM
Pretty much. Minor story changes but the same in the end. I do like how they structured the missions though. Unlike DoW2 where you could be screwed if you took the wrong load out on your heroes now they get troop backup to help round them out.
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 3 2011, 05:20 PM
You still can win most missions with only the heroes.
Also, seeing how i got the collectors edition (btw, only 30bucks? O.o yes please, thank you!) i got to start with some nice gear for all of my campaigns.
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 8 2011, 10:35 PM
OK, i like the Orky ending of Retribution ^^
Posted by: StealthSigma Mar 14 2011, 12:56 PM
I liked the IG's. I'm moving on to Tyranids now.
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 14 2011, 07:04 PM
*nods*
i'll have to do the tyrannos next.
i have finished all other races ^^
btw, did the game mock you like it did to me too?
dropping between 2 and 4 purples in the last mission? <.<
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 15 2011, 01:04 AM
Ok, i just brute forced myself through the Tyranno Campaign.
This one is different. There is one Mission the other Races do not get.
I think the Imperials got the Mission too, but i am not sure.
Also, a fully upgraded hive tyrant is IMPRESSIVE.
And the Hive Lord is basically a Tyranno-Version of the Avatar of khaine O.o
Posted by: StealthSigma Mar 15 2011, 03:11 PM
This one is different. There is one Mission the other Races do not get.
I think the Imperials got the Mission too, but i am not sure.
Also, a fully upgraded hive tyrant is IMPRESSIVE.
And the Hive Lord is basically a Tyranno-Version of the Avatar of khaine O.o
The Hive Tyrant is BA in its own right even at low levels. Granted I am doing it just on normal difficulty but I haven't encountered anything yet that the Tyrant cant rofl stop. I'm using the biomorph to heal me whenever I get hit in melee and am using the melee skills over ranged to force the enemies into melee attacking. It's pretty ludicrous. I used the genestealers for a mission then realizing how BA Tyrant was in melee just switched over to pure ranged support.
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 15 2011, 04:16 PM
Jah, i usually have one melee, maybe two, and the rest completely termagants or warriors with ranged.
it's enough. especially once you get to the rofl stop where every attack heals everybody around everybody.
Posted by: StealthSigma Mar 15 2011, 05:00 PM
it's enough. especially once you get to the rofl stop where every attack heals everybody around everybody.
I keep seeing reference to synapse range on the Tyrant. How do you know what that range is?
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 15 2011, 07:55 PM
Guess.
Basically, it's indicated by allmost invisible yellowish/greenish little circles on the ground around affected units . .
Posted by: StealthSigma Mar 21 2011, 07:06 PM
Beat the Tyranid campaign on normal.
Was definitely feeling like my melee monster Hive Lord could pretty much solo anything thrown at it by the final mission. I was at a point where I would just summon Genestealers to distract things or capture point and almost exclusively use the Hive Lord and Swarm Lord to fight.
The final fight I used the Swarm Lord to hold off portal reinforcements while I soloed Kyras mostly afk.
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 21 2011, 10:42 PM
you can get an imperial shit ton of the small tyrannids that are shooty.
and even if some of them die, who cares, they are cheap enough.
and with the right combination of wargear and abilities, every attack YOU do heals every tyrannid in synapse.
and every attack any tyrannid in synapse range does healy every other tyrannid that is also in synapse range too.
so getting of huge powerfull attacks is not important. get of MANY attacks and your complete army is CONSTANTLY being healed.
aside from one hit kills, you are not very likely to lose any single tyrannid by then. much less a complete squad.
you just have to guard them from melee enemies, where one of your big strong roflstompers comes into play.
Posted by: StealthSigma Mar 22 2011, 11:18 AM
I went 3 stamina, 5 melee, 2 ranged with the Hive Lord.
I was able to summon those little shooters (8 pop) and genestealers (18 pop) without needing to expend resources. 
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 22 2011, 01:26 PM
*shrugs* i went all out on enhancing the troops around my main hero and ignored everything else basically ^^
Posted by: StealthSigma Mar 22 2011, 01:33 PM
I'm not sure what benefits I got exactly.
I know the two energy upgrades were the little shooters and the benefit that prevented tyranids from getting suppressed and allowing them to leap over cover. 5 in melee netted me genestealers as summons, a damage buff, barrage from bio-plasm, and something else. Don't remember what stamina gave me.
I'm debating which campaign to do next. I'm leaning towards Chaos->Eldar->Ork->Space Marine but I may do Chaos->Eldar->Space Marine->Ork.
I did dig the Tyranid ending.
Blood Raven casualties: Total. They stayed and fought to the last man.
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 22 2011, 01:46 PM
*nods*
i like the orky ending and the chaos ending.
and the imp ending is nice too.
don't remember the rest though.
Posted by: StealthSigma Mar 22 2011, 01:59 PM
i like the orky ending and the chaos ending.
and the imp ending is nice too.
don't remember the rest though.
Imp ending was basically. Exterminatus averted. I don't like to waste competent men. I'm glad you were a competent commander or I would have shot you myself.
Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 23 2011, 08:19 AM
Yep, mostly ^^
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)