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Posted by: Tanegar Apr 20 2011, 04:22 PM

I think somewhere along the way Valve forgot that the entire goddamn point of episodic gaming is to release smaller games at more frequent intervals. I would really, really, really like to see the end of the story now plzkthx.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Apr 20 2011, 05:25 PM

Are Episodes 1 and 2 as awful as HL2 was?

~J

Posted by: Fix-it Apr 20 2011, 06:15 PM

if you didn't like HL2, you obviously won't like the followups.

Posted by: Fix-it Apr 20 2011, 09:16 PM

btw, they dropped the whole "episodic" part when they realized that their quality control and ability to iterate got flushed down the toilet. they are back on valve time/its done when its done.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Apr 21 2011, 02:44 PM

Anyone else finish P2 yet?

I got to the final time you use the Portal Gun and was like OMG, no wai.





-k

Posted by: Doc Chase Apr 21 2011, 03:19 PM

Haven't even played it yet.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Apr 21 2011, 03:56 PM

That's not obvious at all—sometimes flaws are fixed, and the problems that killed HL2 weren't obviously the kind that required engine-level or otherwise high-effort changes to fix.

That said, your reply suggests that the gameplay is pretty similar, so I guess it didn't happen.

~J

Posted by: Adarael Apr 21 2011, 04:31 PM

F that. I want more content for Alien Swarm. I want more content for Alien Swarm so bad, I have resorted to *building my own damn campaign for it.*

As for if EP 1 and 2 were as "awful" as HL2, that's a tough question. I didn't think HL2 was awful - far from it. I didn't think it was the second coming, either, though. I would say that I enjoyed Episode 1 and 2 far more than HL2, however, because the pacing was better and there were less interminably annoying sections. The graphics were better, as well, due to improvements to Source.

Posted by: Mr. Mage Apr 21 2011, 04:55 PM

Yes...I am speechless...
Still trying to get a buddy to do the coop stuff tho...

Posted by: Faraday Apr 21 2011, 07:14 PM

Totally gonna get my GF to play this with me.

Posted by: Tanegar Apr 22 2011, 03:32 AM

Is the portal gun supposed to be, er...

...when you get it?

Edit: N/M, fixed it.

Posted by: CanadianWolverine Apr 22 2011, 05:10 AM

I am with you on this, truth be told, when I heard Portal 2 announced I yawned and wondered where the HL2 Ep 3 announcement was. Heck, even the Portal 2 ARG held things that teased at HL2 references related to the Black Mesa, Judith Mossman and the Borealis (IIRC).

The advancement in the Portal 2 timeline for its main character also has some interesting implications in its relation to HL2 Ep 3 and its references to the end of civilization - surely that reminds someone other than myself of the 7 Day War that is part of the HL2 story describing why the Combine were the bad guys running the show the humans aka rebels were up against.

Oh, for those who didn't know, Portal and Half-Life verses are considered to be the same with references and convergences, as supported by statements made by their developers.



I do not share your point of view, HL2 was a great success, a triumph even, in gaming and I loved it and its predecessors. I'm always surprised by opinions like these, because they are so rare, statistical outliers, the 2% that didn't enjoy the game in its review scores - but perhaps it is how some classic games come to be viewed when seen through the lens of current game experiences that were influenced by these great games of bygone years.



Seeing as it is free and developer time is not, I wouldn't hold my breath on more content that isn't community produced or by yourself. That's why they released the tools they did immediately with it on its launch after all. Its very likely they are testing the waters on how much free games on Steam have impacts on the number of users they can have viewing and possibly purchasing games from their store once they have experienced the free demo game of what Steam is capable of. Are they still patching/tweaking Alien Swarm and its tools/SDK?

Posted by: phlapjack77 Apr 22 2011, 05:24 AM

Put me down as another HL fanboi. In the genre of 1st-person shooters, the HL series (imo) has the best combination of gameplay and story. Story, story, story. Only thing that could be argued to be better were SystemShock, or even better, the Marathon series.

Now to fire the ole' PC up again to play Portal2, if only for the HL crossover.

Posted by: Blade Apr 22 2011, 08:30 AM

While I enjoyed HL and HL2 (and episodes), I still don't understand why people are so fond of these games. To me they are good FPS but no better than a lot of other FPSes out there.

Posted by: nezumi Apr 22 2011, 01:09 PM

I loved HL, enjoyed HL2, but I've only bothered replaying the first. Never tried the two episodes. I wouldn't mind a new HL. Frankly, I wouldn't mind HL1 if they just updated the graphics! But I probably wouldn't go for a continuation of HL2.

Haven't played Portal 2 yet either ... waiting for the price to drop. Cooperative play sounds interesting. My eldest son is 7. I wonder if he'll be good enough to play? (And if we'd need to buy two copies of the game - ugh).

Posted by: Bigity Apr 22 2011, 01:19 PM

Never played HL, HL2, or Epside 1/2.

Dunno if they are bad, but they've never had the draw for me.

I played the crap out of Tribes 1/2, and Rainbox Six games (the real, PC ones), System Shock 1/2, and AVP.

From there I went straight to Borderlands and Bad Company because I didn't do much FPS games for awhile.

Posted by: Doc Chase Apr 22 2011, 04:07 PM

Because HL was one of the first FPS that had a true immersive story and much better flow on levels. Before then, you had Doom 1/2/Final, which was "kill demons, something about hell on earth", and Duke Nukem 3D which was "alienz stealin' our wimminz." HL also had an AI that took more 'human' reactions, such as people calling out where you were to hunt you down, or running away from a grenade when you threw it.

It heralded a marked change in the FPS market where people started paying attention to engaging the player via a storyline rather than just clicking at pixelated mobs and watching them fall down while looking for a switch to load the next level.

Not to mention it also spawned Counterstrike and Team Fortress and Day of Defeat.

Posted by: Mr. Mage Apr 22 2011, 05:36 PM

http://www.blackmesasource.com/

Posted by: X-Kalibur Apr 22 2011, 06:25 PM

I'm gonna have to stop you right there. CS was not a good game. TF and DoD were amazing, and I give them all the credit due. But CS just makes me shudder to even think about it. I have Rainbow Six games... (okay, game. Raven Shield/Athena Sword were great, not so much with R6:Vegas) if I want counter-terrorism with good multiplayer, both for co-op and head to head.

Posted by: Mr. Mage Apr 22 2011, 07:26 PM

personally, I prefer the original Quake Team Fortress over any of Valve's versions. Can't beat running around as a Homer Simpson Spy.

Posted by: Tanegar Apr 22 2011, 09:39 PM

So I finished Portal 2's campaign.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Apr 22 2011, 10:15 PM

Try the co-op. Get to the end. Muwahahaha.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Apr 23 2011, 02:13 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_(game)

~J

Posted by: Fix-it Apr 23 2011, 04:21 AM

if anyone wants to bitch about release dates or "valve time"...

Posted by: Whipstitch Apr 23 2011, 05:20 AM

I'd rather they start working on a Portal 3.

Posted by: phlapjack77 Apr 23 2011, 05:31 AM

At first your dislike of HL was galling, but now that I see you're a Marathon fan, all is forgiven

Posted by: Blade Apr 24 2011, 09:52 AM

Ultima Underworld (ok, it's more of an RPG than a FPS but still)
The aforementioned Marathon
Strife
Tekwar
GoldenEye64
Star Wars: Dark Forces
System Shock
ShoGo
and I'm probably forgetting a lot.

Some of them also had 'human reactions'.

There was also SiN, released at the same time, with many similar elements but which didn't get the same attention. I remember having as much fun if not more with SiN than with Half-Life.

And playing back Half-Life 1 recently, I realised how it actually didn't really part that much from the old school FPS:
- Most of the levels inside buildings are just a succession of corridors.
- The story is really limited: an experiment gone wrong has monsters arrive. You kill monsters looking for a way out. The military arrives but they shoot on sight. You kill the military and the monsters. You're sent to the monster world. There is the mysterious G-Man and the end sequence, but apart from that it doesn't have many differences with other FPS stories.


Actually I also don't understand how these got so popular either.
When everyone was playing Counterstrike, I was playing Infiltration (the UT mod).
And Team Fortress was a Quake 2 mod before being a HL mod.

Posted by: Fix-it Apr 25 2011, 05:14 AM

how many on that list are win32 platform? I don't recognize any other than Dark Forces, which didn't have multiplayer, and neither did System Shock, which while excellent, was more RPG.

the point is that HL1 came along after Quake and UT popularized FPS. right place, right time. it wasn't first, it wasn't best, but it was correctly timed. and it had some of the best modding support.

you can make the exact same argument for console FPS in bungie's Halo. it was a linear, repetitive SP campaign, with run of the mill gfx that was years behind PC platform, but it arrived just about the time that console multiplayer and the Xbox took off.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Apr 25 2011, 10:25 AM

Marathon 2 and Infinity, Strife, TekWar, Dark Forces, System Shock, ShoGo, and Ultima Underworld.

So all of them except Marathon 1 and GoldenEye64.


Aside from the fact that that wasn't nearly as important a feature as it is today, the Marathons had multiplayer down cold.

~J

Posted by: Stahlseele Apr 25 2011, 11:10 AM

Posted by: Tanegar Apr 25 2011, 01:29 PM

Posted by: Stahlseele Apr 25 2011, 04:14 PM

Posted by: Tanegar Apr 25 2011, 06:07 PM

Posted by: Adarael Apr 25 2011, 07:06 PM

Most of them, actually.



Per Quake, yes. Correct there, but as to UT? No, Half-Life predates Unreal Tournament. In fact, it only came out several months after the original Unreal - Unreal was released on May 22, and Half-Life came out November 18th. I recall this because everybody talked about how Half Life was the first FPS with a story, and I was all annoyed, because Unreal had one as well. Not disagreeing with you, fundamentally - just pointing out timelines.

Come to think of it, 98 was a great year for breaking the FPS mold. Not only Half Life and Unreal, but also Rainbow Six, Shogo Mobile Armor Division (which they need to revisit) and nominally Quake II (technically 97, but December of 97).

Posted by: KarmaInferno Apr 25 2011, 07:10 PM

-k

Posted by: Stahlseele Apr 25 2011, 07:28 PM

Posted by: Tanegar May 6 2011, 09:56 PM

Saw the co-op finale. I think we can guess what the major challenge in Portal 3 will be: herding cats gamers.