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Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 21 2011, 01:08 PM

Is anyone else as hyped for this game as me? I already preordered it after playing the Italian demo, because I felt that it's pretty much a return to the good ol' first DX (if a little simplified) and started toying with building a SR character based on the main character.

You lucky Americans get it three days earlier, on Tuesday, while I have to wait until Friday.

Posted by: Abdul Alhazred Aug 21 2011, 06:26 PM

I've pre-ordered it and already downloaded it on Steam. Now I just have to wait until Tuesday. The reviews are good so far.

The only issues I've heard about it are the 4 bosses in the game.

Posted by: Critias Aug 21 2011, 06:52 PM

I got sold on the game just from the look of the first few cinematic trailers, etc, and my nostalgia from the older games. I don't preorder very often (in fact, it's just the second time I've ever done so), but I've had this one preordered for months, now.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 22 2011, 07:47 AM

The first game had four too (Hermann, Navarre, Simons, Page), and I've seen only three Tyrants in DXHR. Page isn't going to be the boss this time.

Posted by: Tanegar Aug 22 2011, 10:01 AM

Not sure I'd classify Bob Page as a boss, since you never fight him directly.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 22 2011, 08:51 PM

OK, i shelled out 100€ for the collectors Edition . . now i just have to wait for it to be delivered . . probably saturday <.<

Posted by: Critias Aug 22 2011, 09:20 PM

Gettin' the fancy one, huh? Nice!

I thought about the collector's edition, but most of the stuff I'm interested in (the in-game content), I got through just preordering from Gamestop. If I paid the higher price, I'd (personally) only really be doing it for the sweet action figure -- art books and soundtracks have just never been my thing.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 22 2011, 09:39 PM

You should be able to order the figure itself online.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 22 2011, 10:30 PM

Well, the games i DO buy, i usually buy the most blinged out edition i can get my grubby paws on . .
only with settlers of catan did i make an exception . . i ain't paying no 700€ for a board game x.x . .

Posted by: Critias Aug 23 2011, 12:08 AM

Yeah, board games get a little crazy, sometimes. I'm an RPGer and a wargame guy, I've yet to really get bit by the board game bug -- but seeing the prices for some of 'em at GenCon was a stark reminder of why. Whenever a 40k army is cheaper than some other game, something is wrong.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 23 2011, 07:59 AM

Whut? Which version of SoC clocked in at 700€?

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 23 2011, 10:16 AM

ok, so it's 500€ . . STILL TOO MUCH FOR A BOARDGAME!
http://www.amazon.de/Die-Siedler-von-Catan-Limitierte/dp/B0007WDW24

and for the english speaking people:
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/17419/catan-3d-collectors-edition
they are selling it for 400$ and 780$ . .

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 23 2011, 10:20 AM

Too bad I can't have a custom avatar easily here. http://static0.blip.pl/user_generated/update_pictures/2137175.jpg And I'm completely prepared for the Revolution (paid for my preorder today, apparently the local webshop is pulling another screwjob advertising normal box as "preorder". Whatever, as long as it works.).

Posted by: Grinder Aug 23 2011, 10:58 AM

Well, not correct. http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=35668

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 23 2011, 11:13 AM

I said "easily". "$20" doesn't sound like "easily", "e-mail to admin" doesn't either.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 23 2011, 11:23 AM

I'm sorry.

Posted by: Bigity Aug 23 2011, 03:40 PM

I'm waiting on my video card upgrade (well sorda, but my current rig involves an Athlon XP 2100 and an AGP card) to put into my Core 2 (newer, but still old) system and then I'll be getting this bad boy on Steam.


EDIT: Good grief do I need a new desktop.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 23 2011, 04:20 PM

Athlon XP socket 939?
Upgrade to 4400+ Dual Core.
And the Graphics can be upgraded to 4350 or 4530 or something, i think . .
Yes, you can have GDDR5 and HDMI on that rig. And both of those together probably cost all of 100 bucks . .

As for Core2 . . i have a Core 2 Quad, Socket 775 is not THAT old . . whoever keeps telling you that 2 or more cores at 3 GHz are going to bottleneck your graphics card has NO idea . .

Posted by: Critias Aug 23 2011, 04:28 PM

Home from the store, installing right now. Whee!

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 23 2011, 04:28 PM

won't work for days, because of steam saying:"No, because No!"

Posted by: Bigity Aug 23 2011, 05:23 PM

It's dual core, so a little aged yea. Not too bad and I got it for 25 bucks so hard to complain (work sells off old desktops to employees for a steal, optiplex 760 - i'll drop in some RAM and a HD4650 or something with a PSU I have and it should be tons better than my old Athlon box)

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 23 2011, 09:17 PM

i still have an 939 running myself.
and it works splendid under win7 64 bit . .
4 Gigs DDR1 RAM, PCI-E-Graphics, i'll give it that, Dual Core Athlon XP 4600+ i think with 1 Meg of Cache.
Nice little Board with 8 SATA1 ports, 2 IDE ports and FLOPPY port . . yeah, i can actually get 16TB HDD into that one . .

Posted by: Critias Aug 23 2011, 11:32 PM

So far, so good. Gameplay's about what was advertised in trailers, etc, the cut scenes have been fantastic, and the overall mood and feel has been great. In large part, it reminds me (in good ways) of the old Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines game, with the versatility/variety of play. I can really see how branching out augmentations in different ways could result in an entirely different play experience, too -- somewhat breaking character for me, I've actually been investing in some of the hacking stuff, just because it's been very helpful so far.

Added bonus? None of the trailers mentioned/showed just how far you can fling a body. I already knew you could drag 'em to hide 'em, sure...but you can really wing those mamajamas, too, same as all the other stuff you can carry around. It's pretty fun to one-shot a baddy stealthily, then just go "fuck it" and announce your presence to the next handful of 'em by launching his comatose form at them.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 23 2011, 11:33 PM

No Spoilers!

Posted by: Abdul Alhazred Aug 24 2011, 05:53 AM

When I play all I can think is that this would have made a GREAT, GREAT Shadowrun game.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 24 2011, 06:56 AM

Don't watch the launch trailer then, you'll see the "big twist" (big because it's obvious in the game) pretty much confirmed, also other spoilers (cutscenes from fights with all three Tyrants).

Posted by: Rastus Aug 24 2011, 09:20 AM

Just bodies? Childs play! With the strength aug you get access to three of the greatest weapons in the game: Dumpsters, Vending Machines, and the almighty Refridgerator. Those three will see you through damn near any problem.

Out of ammo? These things never are. Too many enemies shooting? They are all indestructible bulletproof barriers that remain so while held in front of you. Wooden door in the way? Just chuck a fridge at it about 10 times and you've successly commited breaking and entering. They are also suprisingly subtle weapons, as pretty much nobody reacts to you holding them and they don't make the kind of noises(aka gunshot reports) that attract guards and spook civvies, though I'm pretty sure in more secure areas guards will react to them like any other falling object.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 24 2011, 02:36 PM

"What the, who the hell is carrying that fridge?" "Oh, it must be Joe from Maintenance. They're moving the break room." "Oh, thank goodness, having it right next to that lab with the harsh chemicals was making all my meals taste like toxic waste!" "That lab also was using the fridge against company policy." "... Please tell me I didn't eat toxic waste." "With your wife's cooking, sorry, I wish I could."

Posted by: Critias Aug 24 2011, 09:45 PM

No, see, my (pleasant) surprise just came from the fact that I knew, or at least expected, to be able to throw that sort of stuff. I'm winging dumpsters and fridges around willy-nilly, and sometimes even just breaking all of someone's moving boxes because I think they're a douchebag.

It was just that I didn't expect to be able to fling a corpse (or near-corpse) at high velocities over far distances. I knew I could drag 'em into the shadows and blah blah blah sneaky-sneaky, but using them as weapons brought a smile to my face.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 24 2011, 09:59 PM

*shrugs* i'd throw them up a roof to be sneaky and not leave any traces i guess . .

Posted by: crash2029 Aug 24 2011, 11:09 PM

Call me stupid but I havent figured out how to throw a body. Dumpsters, fridges, vending machines yes, bodies no.

Posted by: Critias Aug 25 2011, 02:00 AM

When you've got them grabbed (to drag them around), just hit the shoot/attack/throw button like normal. Fling, off they go! The tutorial, etc, never mentioned it was possible, so the first time I did it it happened totally by (awesome) accident.

Posted by: Rastus Aug 25 2011, 04:11 AM

Okay, fair enough. It's not something you'd naturally try the first time you get a body to drag away.

But did you know that those bodies could be used for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3nDsTxJvM?

Posted by: CanRay Aug 25 2011, 04:32 AM

Nothing but net.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 25 2011, 06:53 AM

Three to four hours and I get my preorder at last.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Aug 25 2011, 02:10 PM

I played Human Revolution for a couple of hours last night.

On the whole I was very pleased. It really does keep the look, feel, and gameplay of the original Deus Ex. It's not exactly the same but I feel that they did for the most part respect the original. In a vast improvement from Deus Ex 2, they let you get drunk again! Hooray! And the whiskey gets you a lot more drunk than the beer, which was a flaw in the original Deus Ex, where a bottle of whiskey was equivalent to one ice cold foty. Back in grad school, I used to drink ice cold foties while playing Deus Ex...


The biggest difference that I can see so far is the regenerating health system, and also how close combat takedowns somehow eat up your biolelectric energy, which is hilarious, because I imagine you must be giving your opponents mechanically enhanced less lethal beatdowns with your cyberlimbs going through copious amounts of battery power in order to do so. It would be like using a jackhammer as a less than lethal weapon.

In the original Deus Ex, you needed to stockpile items, or memorize the location of med bots, in order to maintain your health, or make sure you didn't get crippled limbs. With enough finesse, less lethal takedowns with, say, the baton, did not use any resources, i.e. BE. Finally, while your BE was limited, you could stockpile bioelectric cookies, I mean cells, to recharge it whenever you needed to.

So, the biggest difference is that in the original Deus Ex you could basically stockpile resources for tough spots, and you could get by the easier spots without using resources and instead using a lot of finesse, i.e. by creeping around with the baton.

I feel like in Human Revolution they've basically gotten rid of that particlar way of playing the game, by introducing the regenerating health, and making the less lethal takedowns eat up bio energy. You can't take down everyone using hand to hand combat like you used to be able to, so in a sense I feel more compelled to sneak through an area instead of securing an area and then searching it thoroughly. In other words, as far as a less than lethal approach goes, in some way the game has a little bit more of a gameplay resemblance to Metal Gear 2...you don't really want to try and secure an area in most cases, but rather you want to creep by while minimizing contact, since you don't really have the resources to secure an area in the way you might have wanted to do in the original Deus Ex. Unlike in older games you don't have the ability to stockpile huge amounts of resources for when you want to go nuts and take everyone down in a particular area.

But, I can't say that's necessarily a bad thing...it's just a different game design choice. So I have to say that on the whole I really like Human Revolution.

The hacking is a lot better, too. Real SR2 like, with nodes and such. What fun!


I'm also looking forward to possible philosophical discussions about transhumanism in the game. I recently looked transhumanism up on the internet in order to get ready for playing this game and I am curious to see the ways in which it would be discussed in-game. In my personal opinion, as someone who works in a medical field, I think that a lot of the discussion about trans humanism as a philosophical negative is very abstract. On the other hand there are many cases of people losing a lot of quality of life and enduing a great deal of emotional and economic hardship when they lose or have problems with various organs. If it were at all possible to supply these people with a halfway decent mechanical replacement part, it would be such a concrete social good that I feel a lot of the abstracted counter arguments would be superflous. It's fine to talk about mortality and human falibility as philosophical upshots, until you have to deal with these things on a day by day basis, either in yourself, or in someone you care for. But, I'm looking forward to seeing how these thoughts and issues might be presented in the game.

Posted by: ZeroPoint Aug 25 2011, 02:36 PM

Preordered the Augmented edition from Gamestop. Picked it up and was up til 5:30 the next morning playing it x_x

good think i didn't have to go in until 1 that day. still felt like crap though.

got the PC version.

I like the cover mechanics and general look/feel of the game. was slightly disappointed with energy system...but not terribly.

Posted by: Critias Aug 25 2011, 03:09 PM

Honestly, energy is probably my biggest complaint so far. As complaints go, it's a pretty small one. It's not ruining the game for me or anything like that, but if I had to pick something to be unhappy with, it would be energy.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 25 2011, 03:26 PM

Oh yeah, not having enough energy is a monstrous pain in the ass, especially in situations where you have to quickly deal with multiple enemies. Also, boss fights. I played the beta for a while and there are no words safe for publishing that describe them.

Posted by: Critias Aug 25 2011, 03:33 PM

It's mostly just an extra headache, to me. Not a major challenge/difficulty thing, I just dislike even having to worry about it. It's an extra little bit of bookkeeping I wish I didn't have to even consider.

Posted by: ZeroPoint Aug 25 2011, 04:16 PM

yeah, my biggest problem with the energy system is that the takedowns cost energy...which means that due to the way i chose to play i almost always only have 1...and thats all i need cuz it recharges. so as long as i'm only doing takedowns i have unlimited energy...but if i want to do something that costs more I eat an energy bar and first do it, and don't bother replinishing it because I'm just gonna lose it doing the next takedown...

so yeah, not very well thought out in my opinion. A minor complaint really, and as you said critias, probably the only one i have.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Aug 25 2011, 07:13 PM

I tend to agree, and play the same way re energy.

I guess they wanted to make it hard to actually nonviolently secure an area.

I remember though how in the original Deus Ex the BE meter ran out so fast I rarely bothered using augs.

Posted by: Tanegar Aug 25 2011, 08:38 PM

There's an aug in DX that lets you conserve power. "Power Recirculator" IIRC. It consumes a modest amount of energy itself, so it only really becomes worth it if you're running multiple augs simultaneously. I had good experiences with Combat Strength, Silent Running, and the Dragon's Tooth sword. MJ12 commandos went down in one hit as long as they didn't see me coming.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Aug 26 2011, 05:40 PM

I remember that aug. I used it sometimes, although the auto heal aug was also mighty convienient.


I have been thinking why takedowns requiring energy is annoying.

We are used to hand to hand combat in games being a last resort or economy measure. This is of course a bit fallacious from a realism standpoint...if you cold cocked 50 guys on a military operation you'd probably end up breaking your hand and then you'd really be in trouble. But in HR when beatdowns effectively have an ammo count that is far less than the ammo count for guns, it messes with us.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Aug 26 2011, 09:15 PM

The energy for melee takedowns is entirely a balancing mechanism and an important one. It's an instant takedown and you're invincible during the animation. Without that limitation you could just run around KO'ing (or stabbing) everyone in a room with no real care for ammo.

You've got 4 options for non-lethal takedowns that all really good though.
Melee - cost - battery - silent
Taser - cost - ammo - short range - silent - can also short out cameras and laser beams (and bosses...!)
PEPS gun - cost - ammo - decent range, area affect, - silent(HOW???) - low total ammo count
Tranq Rifle - Cost - ammo - long range - silent - sometimes takes two darts to incap. Ammo is expensive and not always readily available.

Posted by: Backgammon Aug 27 2011, 12:30 AM

Did you guys know that, when hacking, you can claim the red stack? And if you do, you claim everything in the system? It was awesome when I figured that out. I have nukes and stops coming out of my ass.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 27 2011, 12:40 AM

...say what now? That one hasn't crossed my mind, it's like hacking the guy who's attacking you in Cybercombat!

Posted by: Critias Aug 27 2011, 01:26 AM

My "oh wow" moment for hacking was when I realized I could click on and manipulate more than one thing at a time. While you're taking over one node, you can be busily clicking away on another and getting it started.

I love just adding goodies to my 10mm. I know other guns are probably better, but I can't help but want a solid, sturdy, semi-auto. I only even pick up other guns in order to sell 'em, lately. Every mod I get goes onto my pistol, and -- especially now that I've got the silencer on there -- it's never let me down yet. I AM kind of rolling in credits at this point (I'm hoping the second LIMB store will have a couple more Praxis I can buy) and don't really seem to be needing them for much, lately...

And my primary irritation with the melee/energy thing is that it takes energy to be invisible, and then you can't melee one-shot someone after you sneak up on them. It's an irritating non-stacking of abilities that just frustrates me a little. It's not the end of the world, or a wreck of a game, or anything...but again, because I've got to find SOMEthing to gripe about, it's what I've got.

Posted by: Adarael Aug 27 2011, 01:35 AM

Same here. The "OH HOLY SHIT I CAN HACK TWO THINGS WHILE FORTIFYING?" was heard throughout my apartment.


That, sir, is because you are a shadowrunner. And as we all know, Shadowrunners use all kinds of guns... but the Heavy Pistol is always the go-to tool for any job that involves shooting.

Posted by: Faraday Aug 27 2011, 03:25 AM

Loving deus ex so far. I've had a few days open and have been going on a gaming binge ever since Tuesday.

The pistol was a little underpowered for a little bit, I hadn't added many enhancements and I couldn't one-shot guys with helmets on. Then I got the armor-piercing mod for it. Oh my, oh my my. One-shot kills all around now.

So far, a pistol, taser, and combat rifle have been my weapons of choice. Shotguns, sniper rifles, and revolvers are too loud, machine pistols are too weak, rocket launchers are crazy encumbering, and crossbows have so far proved underwhelming. I haven't seen the heavy rifle mentioned so far, but the need to spin it up can be annoying, pretty strong otherwise. Grenades of all stripes are awesome.

I've found that the Typhoon system is kind of over rated, you'd have to get up close to a bunch of guys to do much. About half-way to getting there, I'm dead. This could be because I started playing in the hardest difficulty, though.

Posted by: Critias Aug 27 2011, 04:56 AM

I actually haven't bought the Typhoon ability yet, or the ability to see through walls, or the steadier crosshairs, or implanted armor, or reflex boosts, or any of the combat-monkey stuff I thought I'd be getting...or even the improved senses stuff for stealth (despite sneaking around whenever I can). I keep seeing all of it, shrugging, and picking something else. I don't know why.

I maxed out Hacking (Stealth), got my Hacking up to where I can hit level 4 systems, got the CASIE system so I can handle conversations easier, bought a couple levels of the ruthenium skin thingamajiggy, added to my inventory space once, and...and...crap, that might be it.

I've been going hack-crazy (which is very uncharacteristic of me) and just been hitting pretty much every keypad I can find (even ones in the Sarif Industries building, ones I have the code for like my own) just for the practice and the goodies you can get. My wife was cracking up watching me do it, "The code is right there on your screen! Why are you hacking your own computer?!"

I guess I'm just comfortable in my own FPS/cover-shooter abilities, and have been using my augmentations to get good at other stuff.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Aug 27 2011, 05:36 AM

Overall review so far: We need to take the people responsible for this and put them all in a hole......



...the coding hole, pass them joygirls(boys), food, novacoke, whatever they need and get them making an actual sequel. Another game this good and everyone will forget Invisible war completely. I took my birthday off from most responsibilities and just played this game most of the day and it was time well spent.

I'm a completionist/XP whore, so my current modus operandi has been to knock out/disable as many guys as possible (it seems to give the most points) without alerting anyone to complete objectives without raising alarms, then sweep back through and take out the pockets that were too risky and explore every nook and cranny.

I'm currently in the IYM building and i have all the augs I want unlocked pretty much, max hacking, max stealth for hacking, i'm immune to gas, electricity, and flash. I can high jump, I can lift heavy things, i can KO two guys at once, I can punch down walls. After this i'm going to start on the stealth awareness gorup or maybe cloaking although I might do the social aug just so i don't have to do as much save scumming, and I hear it unlocks some dialog options.

About the only aug i have been disappointed with is fortify, which once my stealth was maxed I really didn't need but that's a small nitpick.

My greatest actual complaint with the game so far is occasionally I just want to kill guys not knock them out, but for some inexplicable reason a lethal takedown is louder then a non lethal one. I can't personally figure out why that would be. Also it's less experience.

Final thought, safe fall system is totally worth it, and pays for itself. THe ability to use it offensively doesn't come up much but when it does saves you a ton of hassle.

Posted by: Faraday Aug 27 2011, 07:56 AM

So true. Especially after you leave Detroit. I might add that I've found the silenced 10mm pistol with armor-piercing mod allows for fairly quiet kills on any human target, as long as you make it a headshot.

Also, I finally figured out what the typhoon system is REALLY for. It's not for mooks, it's for killing tough melee things.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Aug 27 2011, 08:18 AM

I havn't gotten typhoon, then again i havn't run into anything trying to melee me other then the first boss, i'm not that far in.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 27 2011, 09:31 AM

Funny. I decided to keep the silenced sniper rifle this time and haven't had any opportunity to use it yet (although I don't feel like wasting tranq rounds on DRB or Belltower mercs). That and I'm cranking up my hacking skill, despite having a healthy supply of AUDs.

And while we're at AUDs: I think I need to fork some extra cred for a hacking agent for my char in Shadowrun.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 27 2011, 10:27 AM

Ye Gods, but this game is horribly addictive . .
Came home around 11, went to bed around 6 in the morning . .
Played all the time in between and missed an appearantly huge thunder storm . .

Posted by: Critias Aug 27 2011, 05:49 PM

Must...get...Praxis points...

Posted by: Tanegar Aug 27 2011, 06:35 PM

OK, now I'm interested. I didn't preorder because I was afraid it was going to be another Invisible War. Might have to wait a bit before I can scrounge up the money, though.

Posted by: Backgammon Aug 27 2011, 09:04 PM

Yesterday, I did it.

I hacked the control of a turret and made it shoot at enemies. Then I uprooted the fucking thing, and walked around and cackled madly as it shot everything in sight as I calmly strode forward.

Unfortunately, that level cost me the 100 pt Ghost achievement, cause aside from that I am getting it on every single level. Oh well. I still think it was worth it.

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 27 2011, 10:29 PM

This game is completely eating my life. I am so sad that (I think) it is almost over. I do not want it to ever end.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 27 2011, 11:40 PM

Dude, it's a rape cannon. I bailed out of Hengsha using only the pistol and gas/EMP grenades. Once you slap a laser sight on the pistol, you'll be popping headshots across large rooms with ease.

Posted by: Critias Aug 27 2011, 11:58 PM

I'm actually disliking the laser sight. I wish there was a way to de-combine it, as I just preferred the regular targeting reticule.

I agree that the pimped out 10mm is very nice, though, don't get me wrong. I honestly haven't used another gun (except when I accidentally pulled one up using the quick-inventory button) since the pre-aug mission.

Posted by: Backgammon Aug 28 2011, 12:23 AM

I HIGHLY recommend the assault rifle with the mod that makes you lock-on to target and then fire curving bullets. It's sick. You can fire trick shots straight down someone's head from complete cover.

Posted by: Faraday Aug 28 2011, 01:37 AM

You don't get a targeting reticle on the hard setting, so laser sight is actually quite useful in that case.

And yeah, the assault rifle mod that changes bullet trajectory midflight? Too good. I actually don't use it most of the time just to give those guys SOME chance of not dying instantly. That, and I like using my pistol and melee a lot.


I know that feeling.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 28 2011, 01:43 AM

it seems this game does not really play well with my style of gaming . .
which consists of:"talk to people. shit, they hate me now. ok, sneak in. shit, i have been seen. kill the witness. shit, now the whole police station/ware-house is after me . . ok, kill every last single copper/ganger in here . . walk out calmly whistling . . ah shit, the whole outside police/gang is shooting for me . . and the civillians don't want anything to do with me . ."
i'm afraid i actually may have to completely fucking start over from scratch because of this <.< . . this time spec for sneaking and silent take-down and hacking, opposed to staying alive and killing everybody who wants to hurt me . .
pity that ._.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 28 2011, 02:14 AM

Less Mirrorshades, more Pink Mohawk, Stahl.

Posted by: Critias Aug 28 2011, 04:04 AM

Who'd you talk to that hates you? Or, rather, who'd you talk to that hates you but not because you got what you wanted, and he got nothing? It seems like that's where it all started to go downhill for you -- the douche working the reception desk, right?

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Aug 28 2011, 04:32 AM

Talking the guy at the front desk of the police station seems to save TONS and TONS of hassle. It took me a few retries to get him to let me in. Even then I sitll knocked out much of the police station so i could get some takedown exp and also read through and hack terminals.

I had to restrain myself from killing everyone in the hive as the whole concept of the harvesters rubbed me wrong.

Posted by: Critias Aug 28 2011, 04:36 AM

...huh. I talked my way past him both times, without really trying (reception desk guy).

And yeah, I'm actually a little disappointed I never ended up getting into a massive firefight with all the Harvesters and stuff. I fought like three of 'em on one side job, and that was it. It suits my playstyle (this run-through) to be non-confrontational, I guess, but I was looking forward to being able to headshot a whole lot of those psychos before fleeing the country.

Posted by: Faraday Aug 28 2011, 07:49 AM

Going the stealthy route tends to work best if talking fails. You come in from the sewers (harder) or the roof (easier, if you can find it).

Posted by: Critias Aug 28 2011, 08:17 AM

Also, augmented legs and the Icarus landing mod are awesome in China. I'm honestly not sure how necessary they would've been earlier in the game, but I can't imagine navigating this city without 'em. Pure gold.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 28 2011, 09:28 AM

yep, that one . . did not even let me try to talk to him again, and i did not save before talking to him <.<

Posted by: hermit Aug 28 2011, 11:39 AM

Yup, they break from the gameplay big time. All the time the game leaves you alone to do things your way, and all of a sudden you run into barret the man with a minigfun for an arm, and you need exactly one weapon to kill him because otherwise he's nigh invincible. It's kind of like the Psycho Mantis fight, only with nobody telling you to switch sockets. Not so cool.

Other than that, the game levels are small-ish - it's not even Morrowind, let alone Oblvion - but the game lets you do things your way, levels are designed to accomodate multile approaches, sidequests are nice and visual design just blows you away. I could spend an hour just looking at Adam the protagonist and his longcoat, but usually the game dsitracts. I'd have liked larger levels, but with the density of *stuff* in each level, from the leaflets of a demonstration broken up blowing in the wind to loads of very well done in-game adverts, that might just be too much to ask. The Score also is awesome, and since I preordered it came with the game (yay!).

Personally, I go hacker/ninja in this game and prefer nonlethal methods to killing. But it's terribly satisfying to let the big combat robot loose on a bunch of concentration camp guard buffoons who activated it so they don't have to carry it, hehe. That, or sniping.


Easy as pie with tailored pheromones.


Probably thought it's ambient noise?

But yeah, it is addictive. What brought me away from it yesterday was the bloody bossfight. And now I have to go all over the bloody concentration camp again to find this stinner pistol and will have to dump some loot. grrr.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Aug 28 2011, 11:52 AM

Now granted i'm not going to say i didn't retry the first boss fight like 5 times, but the sixth time i found the perfect strategery, manuever him over by anything explosive, preferably one of the gas canisters throw a grenade at his feet, it will not only hurt him it will cause him to stand there and pull his own grenades. Unload on him as he does this, preferably right in his stupid head. When he breaks the stun he will throw a grenade, likely more then one if he's low on health, if he's positioned right at least one of these grenades will land at his feet.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 28 2011, 12:24 PM

Don't use the "Crush" option - I went through "Absolve", finally saying that if something happens, I can help him out.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 28 2011, 12:28 PM

for further ridicule:
i have not found out how i throw the damn grenades x.x

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Aug 28 2011, 01:14 PM

G key, at least on PC.

My personal complaint with grenades so far is there's no good aiming system for me. Alpha Protocol at least kind of spoiled me on that.

Posted by: hermit Aug 28 2011, 05:29 PM

Plus, they do very little damage, which is why I disposed of them for the rocket launcher. Now I have to scurry them back up. *Sigh*. That and the stupid taser gun.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Aug 28 2011, 05:35 PM

That boss fight wasn't so bad...only needed several tries. Just threw emps, exploding barrels (it's quakilicious), and did pistol headshots.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Aug 28 2011, 05:37 PM

It is suitably old school, like the original Soldier of Fortune.

Posted by: Critias Aug 28 2011, 07:12 PM

My only problem with that first boss fight was that I wasn't sure if what I was doing was working, until suddenly the guy was dead. I couldn't tell if my shots were actually doing any damage or if I was just wasting my time like a chump, so I ended up scrambling around like a spaz, trying crazy things, etc, etc, when I could've just stuck with my initial plan and been fine.

Posted by: hermit Aug 28 2011, 11:58 PM

This fight just isn't fun to play. Maybe it's because I am not used to have a knot in my fingers from keyboard controls (I usually play action games on consoles and expected this to be more of an open world/explore game), but all the small-ish maladies of DX3's combat system really take to the fore here.

- It is impossible to shoot around corners. Even if you aim 10 cm besides a wall, you will hit the wall.
- Sometimes, arbitrarily, you shots do not hit.
- Load animations are perilously long, and the boss does have way too much health. I am running out of ammo on him, and I pretty much conserved all ammo I got because I'm into silent takedowns. I shot exactly five times with my pistol.
- grenades seem to fly off randomly. Kinda like Shadowrun's scatter rules.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 29 2011, 12:25 AM

Maybe this is the engine they based the scatter rules off of?

Posted by: hermit Aug 29 2011, 01:04 AM

Seems like.

But the boss cann throw grenades randomly and all fly off in my direction, even if the animation shows him throwing them to the front, and I am standing behind him.

Seriously, this boss fight is wholly unnecessary.

Posted by: Critias Aug 29 2011, 01:45 AM

Like in most games, boss fights kind of suck.

Posted by: Tanegar Aug 29 2011, 02:12 AM

The boss fights in Shadow of the Colossus are awesome.

Then again, all the fights in Shadow of the Colossus are boss fights.

Posted by: Faraday Aug 29 2011, 05:21 AM

I just used emp grenades, cover, and 3 rockets on barrett. A couple sprays to the head with my combat rifle finished him off.

As for the Mantis chick, I found that the Heavy Typhoon followed up with several dozen rounds from the gatling gun worked ok.

What's wrong with the taser? It's a one-shot kill with lots of ammo lying around.

Also not sure what the issue with grenades are. I've found them quite effective despite not ever having a targeting reticle.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Aug 29 2011, 06:55 AM

You had a rocket launcher in the first fight? Due tell, i didn't get a chance to pick one of those up until hong kong.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 29 2011, 07:17 AM

Heh, they're even more awesome when you return to China. Doing an Icarus bomb onto a group of Harvesters or suits followed by offing the stragglers is VERY mohawky.
Also, I ran out of pistol ammo and the only gunrunner in Hengsha doesn't have any in stock. That pisses me off. Do I have to dump SMG and pistol and get a pimped-out assault rifle instead?

Posted by: Neurosis Aug 29 2011, 07:38 AM

This game is amazing.

I finished it.

I immediately started again, rolling another character.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 29 2011, 09:02 AM

yeah, i restarted once or twice too . .
see how different ways of augmentations and weapons and the such work out . .

Posted by: hermit Aug 29 2011, 09:11 AM

It's in the room where the boxbot patrols, in the detention cell that's getting a makeover, on one of the piles of pipes, and comes with 2 additional missiles. I guess it's intended for fighty players to be able to take out Boxbot, but hacking boxbot to kill all the soldiers is more fun IMO.


Not enough range and the second longest reload animation besides the rocket launcher. I usually sell the ammo to my friendly neighbourhood weapons dealer.

On a side note, the woman at LIMB told me I could buy cyber-upgrade points. But where? not at LIMB, they only want to sell me cyber energy bars.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 29 2011, 09:24 AM

No, you can buy the cyber upgrade points at the limb clinic too, i got two there . .
it takes a while for them to refresh though,i think . .

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 29 2011, 10:33 AM

Do what? Praxis points at LIMB clinics refresh exactly once: after you return to the hub, which gives us 2 at the first take on Detroit, 2 at the first take on Hengsha, 2 at the second take on Detroit and 2 at the second take on Hengsha.
Also, that bit with implants going haywire for everyone - when a large corporation in hostile territory offers you a free replacement after you shot up their labs, every Shadowrun player worth his mirrorshades will see the consequences from a mile away.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 29 2011, 10:46 AM

ah, i had my first trip to other places and when i came back there were new points.

Posted by: Faraday Aug 29 2011, 11:01 AM

Yeah seriously. When the receptionist asked me about getting the replacement chip, I just went "bitch, please!" and bought my 2 praxis points. Also got a jug of cyberfood for the road.

Also, after picking up improved reflexes... Why did I wait so long to get it? Not only does it rock, but you get bonus XP for double melee kills.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 29 2011, 12:33 PM

Also, I couldn't resist and took a screenshot of the Harvesters' black clinic. Should serve as a nice illustration for my campaign, especially considering the fact that it's built in a ruined multistory car park.

Posted by: Critias Aug 29 2011, 01:10 PM

I haven't even found a gunrunner besides Grayson and the guy Thorpe introduces you to (both back in Detroit), so right now I'm waddling around with a full inventory, and have been for quite a while. Every once in a while I eat a power bar and wash it down with a bottle of wine (like a real pro), to open up room in my inventory for ammo or something.

Posted by: hermit Aug 29 2011, 01:20 PM

Screenshotting doesn't seem to work for me, sadly. I could spend a lot of time taking screenies ofeverything. While small, the detail in the areas is amazing.

Also, I killed Barret. With my taser. HUNH. Seriously, I just loaded up my last remaining pistol ammo and tasered him, hoping to kill him with even more headshots, and he just ... dropped. I guess I did misjudge the taser gun.


There's also this Russian guy in the apartment block with the crooked people (crooked cop, crooked lab assistant). But I maxed out my inventory first thing, sicne I carried the bloody crossbow with me for ages while waiting to return it to the undercover cop.


Where do you get the wine from? But I pop painkillers like a real junkie. That, and chocolate bars.

Also, David Sarif totally is my image for Johnny Spinrad now.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 29 2011, 01:38 PM

Russian guy? Where is he exactly? Also, is there a second merchant in Hengsha, in addition to the guy in Hunghua Hotel?

Posted by: CanRay Aug 29 2011, 01:56 PM

Is there Yogurt?

Posted by: hermit Aug 29 2011, 02:46 PM

No, sadly not. There're energy bars, whiskey, and beer, at least that's all I found. Oh, and canned cyborg food, which I presume is some sort of Soy.

3rd floor in the building where O'Malley (crooked cop) and this lab tech live. Up the stairs and to the end of the corridor, there's a door there that's openable, and there is the russian and his bodyguard. I sold every lootable gun from the Bangers safehouse in 4th floor to him. Nice cash.

And where is the guy in Hunghua? I searched for him, but beside someone out fo the blue trying to kill me there was just Mae and Edgar and a bunch of extras (civilians and hookers).

Posted by: Tanegar Aug 29 2011, 02:59 PM

Can you, ahem, retain a hooker's services, then kill her to get your money back?

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Aug 29 2011, 03:31 PM

The two merchants (that I know of) in hong kong are one in the lowest level of the brothel behind a sliding door, he sells a rocket launcher. The other is in the garden hotel. Can't remember him selling anything of note.

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 29 2011, 03:53 PM

can't retain a hookers services period.

Posted by: CanRay Aug 29 2011, 04:05 PM

*Pfft* What kind of Dystopian Future is that?

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 29 2011, 04:10 PM

The only hooker that will talk more than one sentence is a cop.

Posted by: hermit Aug 29 2011, 04:31 PM

Nope, DX3 is not GTA.


Actually, no, the hooker extras also have each at least three sentences - two they alternatly say if talked to and one they say when just passing them by. Also, the hookers opposite the cop have an argument going about whether fucking cybered men is squicky or not when you first see them. That's quite a lot for NPCs who basically don't do anything.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Aug 29 2011, 04:36 PM

Third floor? The building next to basketball court, the only entry being a third-floor or fourth-floor window? That's Seurat.
Garden Hotel? Alice Garden Pod Hotel or Hengsha Court Gardens?

Posted by: Critias Aug 29 2011, 05:53 PM

The wine comes from the Hive. It's lying all over the damned place in the VIP area, like a bottle on every table (or close to it). Also, you can order all the booze you'll possibly want (in addition to having another, potentially quite lucrative, conversation!) with the bartender in the Hive.

So, yeah. Power bars and liquor, that's the fuel for my cyborg hacker/killer.

Posted by: Tanegar Aug 29 2011, 06:18 PM

What, no rubber buns?

Posted by: Stahlseele Aug 29 2011, 06:26 PM

Depending on how far the legs go, he may very well have rubber buns . .

Posted by: Faraday Aug 29 2011, 07:15 PM

Pod hotel, it's in the locker room on the first floor. Go to the left when you enter the main atrium and you should find it.


Also, merchants sell weapons -upgrades- which are quite useful and hard to find otherwise.

Posted by: hermit Aug 29 2011, 07:16 PM

Nanofiber/smart alloy buns.

Also, anyone else notice how damn much Hengshua lower city resembles Shinra Slums? I wonder if there's a resistance group there too who think crushing the slums is a brilliant idea to really show them. Well, that and Barrett, hehe.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 1 2011, 02:05 AM

I've beat it now, it's hold on me is broken and I can concentrate on the 100 other things I really need to get done. I liked the game, the ending was a bit underwhelming to be honest.

Posted by: Faraday Sep 1 2011, 03:51 AM

Yar, I was saving all that laser cannon ammo for nothing...
I was at least hoping for a giant robot to attack or something.

Also, I noticed that Tracer Tong is a shout out to the Tracert command.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 1 2011, 04:44 AM

He might be, but actually he's a fairly major character in Deus Ex: No additional title.

Posted by: Faraday Sep 1 2011, 05:24 AM

I know, I played the original first.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 1 2011, 07:04 AM

Laser cannon is awesome in the third boss fight. Especially when the moron tries to shoot you through a wall.
Also, I haven't expected what happened in the last level. Everything's going like the first Deus Ex, and suddenly BOOM! that.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 2 2011, 07:39 AM

Also, is it just me, or does Tai Yong Medical fulfill all the conditions of being your typical corrupt cyberpunk megacorp?

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 2 2011, 08:37 AM

Praxis seemed like a great stand in for Horizon. On the whole I was struck by how I wish SR embraced some of the transhumanism and augmentation culture expressed in HR rather then this constant undercurrent of cyber-hate.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 2 2011, 12:09 PM

You mean Sarif? Well, David Sarif may seem like a jerk sometimes, but in the end, he's pretty level-headed. Tai Yong, on the other hand...

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 2 2011, 07:16 PM

Well, you know, it's from the 80s, when people lost their jobs to cyberlimbs, and katanas had +3 power due to being asian.

Posted by: Backgammon Sep 2 2011, 09:54 PM

I wouldn't say that. I mean sending private goons to kill people and all the shadow stuff is of course cyberpunky, very shadow runny. But the company itself, it's business practice of getting designs and producing by putting cheaper pieces in it, it not fiction, that's the Chinese business model. I find VersaLife is more the typical cyberpunk Corp, doing real shady shit, totally immoral stuff.

Posted by: hermit Sep 2 2011, 10:52 PM

It more reminds me of American business practices abroad (and, the cutting back on quality for short-term profit, in general). The Chinese model is to steal someone else's blueprints, reverse engineer them, undercut anybody by paying shit, having no workplace safety, and dumping your toxic waste in the nearest river, and then cutting back on quality. Of course, TYM does that, too, with Sarif and other companies. It's more of a hybrid, taking the worst of both, really.


Yup, and are in it for the lulz, evulz and conspiracy weirdness instead of honest profit.

Side note: I love these world conspiracies who put their insignia up in the lobby of their seekrit lairs. The 802-11 building housing Eliza has both the Majestic 12 symbol and the Illuminati symbol in the first room. Because it's not a conspiracy theory if the conspiracy doesn't dump hints to it's true nature plainly for everyone to see. ^_^

And another boss who sucks. Meh. I guess I should have bought isolation skin?


You mean Picus? Yeah, they would be.


Sarif Industries is Spinrad, and so is David Sarif. Down to designer carved cyberlimbs and excessive cyberization.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 2 2011, 11:49 PM

Oh, that went over my head. If we're comparing Horizon to Picus, my players are pretty much fucked. First, looking at how Horizon is described in CorpEnc, they're way more benevolent than Picus. Also, Picus isn't independent - it's only a front for the Illuminati, furthering their interests as much as Tai Yong did with the biochips, hostile takeovers and brute-force corporate warfare. And while we're at methods - Picus goes a bit farther than your typical Horizon "let's arrange a PR stunt", with blatant lies and doctored footage. Illuminati can afford to have Picus burned if someone successfully sues them for libel. Horizon can't take this kind of hit to their reputation.

Posted by: hermit Sep 3 2011, 12:33 AM

Because Picus serves a different storystelling purpose in a different setting (and FWIW, most SR megas aren't independent by that reasoning either). Also, Horizon learly has something creepy going on with their mind-melt experiments (and even if this is a DX thread, might I mention Invisible war ...?) ... and who is behind Cline is up to anyone's guess. Cline, however, has been pretty much established as a figurehead.

So yes, Horizon, used like that, is a very dangerous enemy.


In the first Horizon adventure, they do exactly that. They So I don't see a difference there, really.


Entirely depends on who is pulling Cline's strings really.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 3 2011, 01:17 AM

Well, IW is a bad DX game, but it's still a DX game...

Oh, seems like I missed that one. Honestly, after D&D3 I have a certain disdain for splatbooks. As for CorpEnc, there are some hints that "the Consensus" might be something more than the literal sense would imply, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to go into the details who or, more exactly, WHAT runs Horizon. When you consider that they have that Pito Bandito thang going on and think what the P2.0 recordings can be used for, running in LA turns out to be a screw-up comparable to replacing your biochip in DXHR.

Posted by: Faraday Sep 3 2011, 05:01 AM

I like how there re nigerian scam emails everywhere. Not sure how they got into the Singapore facility's network though.

Posted by: CanRay Sep 3 2011, 06:45 AM

Code phrases for sleeper cells?

Posted by: hermit Sep 3 2011, 07:41 AM

Yup. Which is why it is totally insane for any halfway intelligent character to ever run in LA. Or have a Persona account.


Usually the least secure factor in a secure facility is the personnel. In other words: because some idiot didn't mind the security protocols. And just reading the spam it sends made me hate the TYM admins - "hey, we restricted your mailbox to 4 mails and now are spamming you to let you know your mailbox is nearly full because of our spam."

Posted by: Critias Sep 3 2011, 03:36 PM

Did you see the email about why inboxes were limited to four emails? It's because one of their network guys' job is to read all of everyone's email, and he was complaining to the bosses that they had too much for him to keep up with.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 3 2011, 04:59 PM

Omigosh. Perfect cover for secret messenging.

I mean, who looks at those scam e-mails anymore?




-k

Posted by: hermit Sep 3 2011, 08:30 PM

Yeah. That added another layer of creepyness.

Bloody bossfight. I wish they'd t least prepare you for the one winning strategy of these ...

Posted by: CanRay Sep 3 2011, 08:40 PM

And I didn't even know about the E-Mail Censorship, either.

...

Sometimes I scare myself.

Posted by: Critias Sep 3 2011, 09:28 PM

I didn't get to play all week, and finally made some time for it today. Sneaking/slaughtering/hacking my way through the semi-abandoned Picus facility. I love, love, love, turning drones and turrets against their owners. There's just something terribly satisfying about it.

Posted by: hermit Sep 3 2011, 09:44 PM

HELL YES. And then sit on the cameras and gleefully watch the carnage. Also true for towers and boxbotsw (haha, FEMA facility!). Though using the airducts and the camo field to pick off the enemy one by one and listen to them wonder what's going on is also nice.

Posted by: Critias Sep 3 2011, 09:49 PM

Plus, finding a Praxis point in someone's cubicle drawer really made my day. I was used to finding credit chips for 40-50 cred, finding a Praxis was a nice surprise.

Posted by: hermit Sep 3 2011, 11:13 PM

Ah, you found it too! ^_^ Looting really is fun in this game.

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 3 2011, 11:37 PM

The THree Sea-Shells are in the game too!

Posted by: CanRay Sep 4 2011, 02:55 AM

So it's like a less-crappy Fallout?

Don't tell me they're in the bathroom?

If so, do we see how they work? Or do you need to swear to use the bathroom?

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 4 2011, 05:10 AM

Ha, I found that one too.



As I play, really my only annoyance is the paltry ammo pickups. You pick up an ammo box and it has like 2 rounds in it. Heh, just like the first Deus Ex, I guess.

Posted by: Tanegar Sep 4 2011, 06:08 AM

I rarely had difficulty finding enough ammo in Deus Ex. Were you playing on one of the harder difficulties?

Posted by: hermit Sep 4 2011, 09:34 AM

Yeah, that's a bit strange, especially given how the opponents unload on you before you kill/knock them out. I'm playing on hard, though, so I attributed it to that. Still, I usually have the ammo I need, if I conserve a bit and go for headshots. I also do a lot of close combat, if only because the little clips it is shown in are quite amusing.


Yup, though it has a much, much smaller world to be explored.

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 4 2011, 11:47 AM

They work like this:
http://13monos.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/i-mockery-seashells-print.gif
Explanation here:
http://www.poopreport.com/BMnewswire/three_seashells_solved_kinda.html
Also, see the loo in the picture?
You will find this exact picture built in the Deus Ex engine!



*shrugs* i have no qualms about shooting cops in the face for money and XP, and cops usually have the pistol, which i use as my main weapon . .
So i run around with about 200 shots of pistol ammo. and everybody who has a pistol gives me more, because BOOM! HEADSHOT!

Posted by: Tanegar Sep 4 2011, 05:20 PM

Wait, you get XP for kills in Human Revolution? Lame.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 4 2011, 06:15 PM

People have been digging that since Shifter.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 4 2011, 06:32 PM

I play normal. But basically each guy you kill gives you anywhere from 1 to 5 rounds. Ammo pickups are likewise small. I am annoyed that, for example, the tranquilizer rifle takes up huge inventory space, but it seems like there are 50 rounds for it in the whole game. It just feels like such an inefficient use of inventory space to carry some of these weapons around, and yet once you slap a single upgrade on the weapon you don't want to discard it, either.

I remember when I played System Shock 2. I spent the whole game collecting and purchasing bullets, but I never fired them. I waited till the end of the game to collect the battle rifle and a whole bunch of maintenance kits, and then just went postal on the entire endgame.

I guess I'm a completionist. If I shoot one bad guy, I then want to shoot them all. So I need lots of ammo.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 4 2011, 06:46 PM

Oh yes, the whole TEN of them! TWENTY if you land a headshot!

Odd. I did have problems with pistol ammo and, in some places, with tranquilizer darts, but there was always plenty of SMG and assault rifle ammo. And in some levels, tranquilizer and stungun darts were laying around every corner.

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 4 2011, 06:56 PM

you get more for non lethal takedowns.

Posted by: Critias Sep 4 2011, 10:15 PM

I'm confused. If you don't expect to get XP for doing things (things like removing threats), what do you expect to get XP for?

Posted by: Tanegar Sep 4 2011, 10:44 PM

In DX1, you got XP (well, skill points, but http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallAHitPointASmeerp) for achieving objectives. Wanton violence got you nothing, which was an excellent design point, IMO. The game didn't care how you did your job as long as the job got done. Rewarding a particular playstyle over another (violently confrontational over stealthily non-confrontational, in this case) runs contrary to the spirit of Deus Ex.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 4 2011, 11:00 PM

In the Shifter mod, the modder gave points both for kills, but also for stealth. If you finished a level and nobody knew you were there, you got a big point bonus at the end of the level.

Likewise in HR, my understanding is that if no one sees you on a particular level, you get a big EXP bonus for stealth.

Posted by: silva Sep 5 2011, 12:40 AM

If you pass a mission without triggerring the alarm, youre called "Smooth Operator" and gains 250 XP.
If you pass a mission withou being seen, youre called "Ghost" and gains 500 XP.
I dont know the names and bonuses for more fighter-approaches, as Im following a more stealthy one.

And I dont see problem if the game rewards XP for all playing styles. It would be a problem if it rewarded some in detriment of others.

Posted by: Critias Sep 5 2011, 12:58 AM

You get more XP for stealthy and non-confrontational than you do for violent. Does that still run contrary to the spirit of Deus Ex?

Posted by: Tanegar Sep 5 2011, 01:12 AM

Yes. What response were you expecting?

Posted by: Critias Sep 5 2011, 04:04 AM

So you're outraged when you get some small modicum of XP for killing guys and outraged that you get some XP when you sneak past guys, instead. So...uhh...I dunno. When is it okay for people to earn XP? I feel like I'm just kind of missing something, here.

Posted by: Tanegar Sep 5 2011, 04:21 AM

Possibly I did not make myself clear. In the first place, I am not outraged. Not having played the game (yet), I am not sufficiently invested in it to be outraged. I am annoyed.

In the second place, the fact that one gets XP from killing is not what annoys me. Nor is the fact that one gets XP from sneaking. What annoys me is the fact that one gets more XP for following one playstyle over another. As I said, DX didn't care how you achieved your objectives, only that you achieved them. The conclusion I am drawing from this thread (possibly incorrect, but I go by the information I am given) is that Human Revolution does care, that it promotes one playstyle over another.

In another game, this would not be a problem. When one plays Splinter Cell, for example, one goes in with the knowledge that one is expected to play the game a certain way, to make use of a particular body of technique. In Deus Ex, this was not the case. In Human Revolution, this is (apparently) the case. That is what annoys me. The designers have moved away, however incrementally, from the openness and choice of Deus Ex toward the, if not mandatory, then at least strongly-encouraged stealth of Splinter Cell.

Posted by: Critias Sep 5 2011, 04:31 AM

Well, outright stating that a game "runs counter to the spirit" of the games that came before it sounds kind of outraged. It's just the interwebz, so maybe you're not, but it's a pretty harsh criticism to level.

At any rate, in case we've been unclear, it really is a pretty small chunk of XP, either way. You can go about gameplay however you want to (with the exception of boss fights, which tend to, of course, favor those who fight well). I think the mandatory combat of boss fights counterbalances pretty nicely against the miniscule XP gain for playing the rest of the game sneakily -- six of one, half dozen of the other, y'know?

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 5 2011, 05:11 AM

I have actually found the bosses follow the line-of-sight rules the other NPCs have.

The second and third bosses, at least, get flummoxed by you hiding and keeping out of their sight. I just kept shooting rockets at the first boss so I dunno if he's the same way.

Hide, and scoot to another position so when the boss moves to look at the last place you were visible, you're not there. He or she will start looking around, snipe 'em when he's visible. Move again. Snipe. Move. Repeat.

It's a bit tricky since the second and third bosses hide as well, but I was able to sneak-shoot-sneak those fights successfully, rather than run-n-gun like I did the first boss.




-k

Posted by: Critias Sep 5 2011, 05:48 AM

Right, you can still semi-sneaky fight 'em -- but you're thrown into mano-y-mano combat, like it or not, locked in a fairly enclosed space with them, and you're not allowed out until they're dead (two men enter, one man leaves!). You can't, I dunno, CASIE your way past them, or out-hack them, or something. There're different ways to fight them, but you're fighting them, period.

Posted by: Faraday Sep 5 2011, 05:57 AM

Yeah, the boss fights rubbed me wrong. They weren't *bad* in and of themselves, but it wasn't Deus Ex. Also, the first boss you can be sneaky. I ran out of rockets and resorted to my silenced combat rifle, emp grenades, and overhanging explosive barrels.

When I would have problems finding the console for a turret I'd use the "time out" method. Pick it up and set it in a corner where it will do no harm.

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 5 2011, 09:10 AM

Technically, you don' get MORE XP, if you sneak . . because usually, you can, if you are good, land about 50 headshots . . which would net you more XP than doing the complete sneaky bastart thing . .
But the truth is usually somewhere in between, so you don't get more XP from fighting, because you still circumvent some opposition usually . . But you don't get the XP bonus for no killing or no being seen either.
Also, there is still XP from finding out stuff for your missions and you get XP for Hacking stuff. And usually more than you get for fighting too . .

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 5 2011, 09:56 AM

Best option exp wise is to do sneaky non lethal take downs, especially in melee. Nets you like 50 exp per guy and if you do it right you can still get smooth operator and even ghost if your really good at it. Between that and rank 5 hacking + max stealth i was running out of things I wanted to buy I was roping in so much exp.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 5 2011, 10:15 AM

The "seeing through walls" aug allows you to see cloaked opponents too. Made the fight with Namir a piece of cake, dumbass tried to nail me with a plasma gun through a wall while I was frying him with MAH LAZOR. However, after the first boss you should get the EMP Shielding (well, you can get it before it too, protects you from electrified water as well, making some quests way easier).
Headshotting them with the tranq rifle or stungun also nets you 50 XP a pop, you just have to stuff the sleepers in closets and dark corners.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 5 2011, 01:57 PM

It amused me to stuff sleepers in a big pileup inside air ducts, and imagine the confusion on them waking up.




-k

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 5 2011, 03:16 PM

So, after the second boss fight, suddenly it's raining ammo. They literally give you like 300 rounds of MG ammo all at once. I guess what I said before is wrong, at least after the second boss fight.

Second boss fight was way easy with jump mod and MG. Just Million Dollar Man jump away from kamikazee run, and unload MG a few times.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 5 2011, 11:57 PM

For the second boss fight I had full upgraded armor and immunity to emp and flash so she would run up to do her attack and it wasn't nearly as dangerous to me as her submachine guns. HR is the only game i've played where boss fights got easier as I went along. The third fight was cake as I just typhood him twice and watched him fall down once I'd learned to dodge his shots. Total time elapsed not counting cutscenes: 4 seconds. Total consumables: One candy bards, two typoon ammo, one hypostim (that gun of his HURTS) plus a gas grenade i threw as the fight started.

But to quell your concern Tangegar experience in the bulk is still dolled out for completing objectives, but you earn bonuses just as in the first game for finding secret locations and and going about things in a sneaky way. For example the traveler bonus is given to you for going to your objectsives in roud about paths such as airducts, whhile pathfinder is given to you for finding straight up secret locations.

What they've added are you now get bonus experience for hacking devices (typically 10Xthe rating of the device if memory serves) capturing optional objectives in the hacking mini game (which can also reward you with credits or hacking game special abilities) and a bonus delivered for eliminating opponents. Now what I personally liked about Deus Ex is that they didn't dictate a course of action to you, and they still don't. If they hadn't put in a bonus for taking down guys, then the optimal way to play the game (albeit slow and in my opinion boring, because I hate purely stealth games) would be to sneak through the levels to the objectives, because the ghost and smooth operator benefits are fairly substantial.

What they have produced is a sort of informal morality filter, because non lethal takedowns pay out nearly double exp wise what lethal ones do. But I can understand this because one of the points in the main characters backstory is he is an ex-cop who was kicked off the force essentially for his refusal to shoot someone and the complications that arose from that.

Also one thing people seemed to forget about the first deus ex is it did have a few mandatory boss fights of it's own. If you didn't shoot Ana on the plane you HAD to fight her later. Similar to Gunther. Now both could be gotten around with some creative hacking/story choices that led you to having their kill phrase but other then that you had to kill them to advance the story. Walton Simons was a boss that to my knowledge was completely unavoidable and indeed gave me quite a bit of fits as he seemed to be too closely matched for me. Then I realized that once he stopped talking I could immediately hit him with a rocket launcher with the right ammo loaded and he'd spend the rest of the fight running from me semi cloaked. Hacking him down with a sword was very satisfying.

And that brings me to my one really sticking complaint with DE:HR even if I understand why they did it. There were several points where I really wanted to go lethal on the opposition, their despicable people doing despicable things who are unlikely to see justice outside of my ability to deliver it but it not only screws up an achievment but pays out less exp. I did it anyway because isn't that the point of a roleplaying game?

My only other complaint was there were times when i was getting killed way too much by guys with pistols, when having gone through the first game with max regenration and nothing that didn't put me down in two shots able to kill me kind of left me miffed, but that's why it's a prequel I guess.

Posted by: Tanegar Sep 6 2011, 12:20 AM

For a given value of "fight." If you knew their killphrases, those were real short fights.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 6 2011, 12:54 AM

A bit of hilarity: I got the "ghost" achievement on one mission despite me hacking a turret and repeatedly tossing it into rooms with bad guys, despite every alarm going off. Because they never actually saw ME, just a hostile turret suddenly landing in front of them.



-k

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 6 2011, 01:47 AM

So I just found out about picking up turrets. I think it's a little silly because it makes them a lot easier to deal with than if you can't. Not to mention it saves me a lot of ammo since now I don't have to shoot them all to death.

Posted by: Critias Sep 6 2011, 03:09 AM

Some people say silly, some people say awesome.

Posted by: Rastus Sep 6 2011, 06:30 AM

You'd think that in a videogame that allows you access to rocket launchers, that'd be the first answer to every 'boss' fight . The GEP Gun always killed them all in one shot for me, maybe two if the game felt like being a bitch. Anna, Gunther, Simons; all of them went down. Fights basically boiled down to BEEPBEEPBEEP-BOOM! Pity that doesn't quite work as well in HR. Guess they don't make mech-aug cyborgs like they used to by the time 2052 rolls by.

And yeah, picking up hacked turrets is indeed awesome. Wonder how well that'd work on drones with fixed turrets in SR?

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 8 2011, 05:43 AM

Was anyone else pretty underwhelmed by the ending and then the secret after the credits scene? This is what I was afraid of with a prequel, ultimately your choices and actions had to line up with what happens in the first game. Thinking about it I kind of wish the whole final showdown had taken place at the statue of liberty or something.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 8 2011, 06:18 PM

It would have been epic if seeing the Statue of Liberty getting partially destroyed was part of the end-game. Would have tied it to the original game much nicer.

Hearing the original game theme at the very end was nifty.

-k

Posted by: Faraday Sep 8 2011, 06:45 PM

I agree with this sentiment.



Btw, in case anyone wants the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBU-5kXIqHo&feature=related

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 8 2011, 07:02 PM

i BOUGHT the soundtrack with my 100€ collectors Edition!

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 8 2011, 07:36 PM

As I continue to play it seems like you can eventually get all the augs you want. I will think a bit about how to differentiate my character on my next playthrough.

Although I started out on my playthrough minimizing NPCs killed, as the game goes on I found myself killing a certain amount and sparing a certain amount as circumstances dictated given the rising difficulty level.

I wonder if either killing absolutely everyone, or killing absolutely no one, would increase my enjoyment or experience of the game. Killing absolutely no one seems like it would be diminished given that the game forces you to kill the bosses.

Posted by: Rastus Sep 8 2011, 10:23 PM

If what I'm told is correct, you can get enough praxis points to purchase all but three augs by the end of the game, maybe two. This is likely only if you collect every pickup, buy every kit at LIMB clinics, and get every point of XP you can. I haven't done either of those three as well as I could and I'm feeling like I got enough augs to see me straight through the game.


I tend to ask myself that when I play games where you have the option to go non-lethal straight through. But see, the odd thing about these games is even though completely non-lethal is possible, I keep collecting all these guns... Sure seems like a waste not to use them. When the game see's fit to hand you machine guns, rocket launchers, and laser cannons, I can't help but feel that it's trying to tell me that sparing lives is overrated.

Besides, some of these guys are kinda dicks. They could use a bit of lead poisoning to set them straight.

Posted by: CanRay Sep 8 2011, 10:55 PM

It's been proven you can finish Fallout: New Vegas without killing anyone. It's *REALLY* hard, but can be done.

But, honestly, some people just need killing. Cook-Cook for one.

Posted by: Faraday Sep 9 2011, 12:40 AM

When running as a pacifist, guns are great for making your initials in the wall.

But yeah, I tend to stun mooks unless they've pissed me off or I'm out of non-lethal options. For bosses and true assholes, I'll bring out the lead. Or the armblades. Oh, those armblades. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CtBPn4JzSQ&feature=related

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 9 2011, 04:36 AM

Strangely, even if you take out the second boss with the taser, her head apparently explodes.



-k

Posted by: Rastus Sep 9 2011, 04:48 AM

Hah, that's probably my favorate one out of the bunch. Who needs spurs?

But you know, now that I think about my previous statement, I now realize that sometimes a non-lethal takedown really is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whtNHRYJnrU.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 9 2011, 11:26 AM

Well, those two are CASIE and Typhoon. What you need for sure is hacking suite (even the first level in each of those costs 1 Praxis point), EMP Shielding (gets useful as early as Detroit, to walk through electrified water safely, and is pretty much a must during the second boss fight), seeing through walls (handy in dealing with cloaked enemies) Icarus and, of course, cloak.

Also, I will make "Neuropozyne" the official name of Zero in my SR campaign.

Posted by: Backgammon Sep 9 2011, 11:44 AM

God dammit, if I had know that I would have gone for the Ghost Achievement for xbox! I didn't want to do the turrets thing cause my screen went red so I figured that counts against your Ghost award. AAARRGH!

Posted by: CanRay Sep 9 2011, 02:16 PM

"The Turrets are killing us!" "Damn it, I knew this would happen when procurement started getting magazines from Aperture Science!"

Posted by: Bigity Sep 9 2011, 02:21 PM

At least any survivors would have gotten cake.

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 9 2011, 02:45 PM

No, the pi is a lie.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 9 2011, 02:50 PM

Update: It is possible to carry a hacked turret into the elevator before the third boss, and then toss it into the fight room before triggering the cutscene by exiting the elevator.

Maneuvering the boss into sight of the turret and repeatedly stunning him while the turret shot him to death was amusing.





-k

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 9 2011, 03:09 PM

Dude, that's genius!

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 9 2011, 09:19 PM

I noticed you cannot bring bodies to different maps. So much for no man getting left behind!

I remember how in EA's SEAL Team they basically forced you to drag a dead team member through the whole rest of any given mission.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 10 2011, 04:07 AM

-k

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 10 2011, 02:51 PM

That lead me to more Deus Ex videos. Wow, there are some great lines in Deus Ex I haven't even heard w. my multiple playthroughs: http://youtu.be/htnhNyRiAfE

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 10 2011, 02:56 PM

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 10 2011, 11:55 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWF24OGMYvs&NR=1



-k

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 11 2011, 01:48 AM

Like i said elsewhere, two hits of the typhoon put the third boss out for me making the typoon an actually good investment as a boss/bot killer.

Posted by: Rastus Sep 11 2011, 07:54 AM

I see your method, and raise you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1X5F0d58I

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 11 2011, 04:10 PM

Someone should make a Chuck Norris skin for Jenson just for that tactic.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 11 2011, 04:10 PM

See, in my opinion, that's less fun than shooting him a bunch of times while dodging stuff.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 11 2011, 07:20 PM

FALCON PUNCH!

Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoFe8hRy42o has apparently been released by some folks at http://www.moddb.com/mods/deus-ex-unreal-revolution, "augmenting" the original Deus Ex with Human Revolution elements.



-k

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 12 2011, 03:11 PM

I cannot believe they implemented stuff like that.

I wish people would just come out with more Deus Ex content.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Sep 12 2011, 05:43 PM

I, knowing it would screw me somewhere down the line, took the biochip upgrade, so my fight with Namir was actually pretty difficult. None of your augs work and your vision is all screwy. Was actually really fun.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 12 2011, 08:37 PM

Eh, the Unreal Revolution mod is more or less poking fun at the current industry tropes of DLCs, regenerating health, etc.

http://www.moddb.com/games/deus-ex/mods




-k

Posted by: Tiralee Sep 13 2011, 05:00 AM

I broke down and bought this because the online presence was driving me mad with lust (I usually get a collector's edition at $20 from the bargin bin) and was happily surprised.

1: I like the cover mechanic - using the 360, so that could be a better/worse for other platforms. I also like how you have to hold (forgetting to trigger "don't hug wall" was the number one reason why I die in cover-based shooters) to "stick" to the wall. Also, "rule of cool" during a firefight.

2: Grenades are awesome! I'd also like more than 3 rounds from a god-damned box of ammo.

3: Mods! You don't have to swap out "same" weapons because one got the silencer and the other got a reload-speed and you got mixed up. I had no idea where I picked up my first armour-piercing mod, but it was a shock to find that I'd had it installed previously (That, the laser and the silencer = Security Guardamegeddon)

4: Humour! There's the music that does sound, sadly, like the original menu music. Two guards discussing how one almost had a vending machine fall on him the other day (China, infiltrating the data-core, outside balcony) and that it'd be an ironic and laughable death...Yeah, they read our minds on that one. How all the toilets have a vent that's sealed right where long-time players of the Original automatically crouch and try to use...apart from 2, I think? Stuff like that. Oh, and tossing bodies, tossing fridges, walking over half the bloody map to find another fridge/bin/photocopier (Bloody Newspaper level) because I thought that finally getting some stealth over super-leaping legs was a good idea... Oh, and the emails. God. Nothing like blowing through a bunch of nukes because you had a bad run and you almost finished it...to find nothing on the damn computer but an Nigerian email.

5: Story. It's been good so far. Although the household was shouting at the screen for our first meeting with the Dragon Lady, "SHOOT HER, she's lying, you've read her damned emails! Why are you still talking to her, you don't need the little doohicky to know this!"


Cons:
1: Forgetting that the reason why I find Original Deus easy is because I've PLAYED IT FOR 10 YEARS. This did require a massive rethink after my 6th reload for something I was SURE I could do.... Humbling to crank it down to "Tell me a story", let me tell you.

2: Ammo. I might not use much, but I'd like more. Would LOVE to be able to reuse some of the crossbow bolts.

3: Cutscenes are ok-good. Some rubberbanding (are all these people riding the wire?) and the mannerisms did seem forced at times. The voice of the protoganist, calm but deep during a furious firefight, becomes Christian-Balesque and shouty during a cutscene...someone's gonna remix it.

4: Difficulty goes Down! Although that's more likely to to actually getting a handle on Augs and knowing that 2 guys come out here, and the stragger can be gotten here...

5: Praxis points...sweet addictive praxis points, I wants them Baggins! 3 At each LIMB clinic would have done nicely....Not too many people (apart from the packmule builds) could afford that much, unless they did some serious bystander/security harvesting.


Don't do this:
1: Don't be a hacker without sleeze (Stealth enchancement: hacking) Yeah, the other SR-player in the house face-palmed at why I was shouting at myself when she realised what I'd been doing.
2: Who needs Dermal Armour? You do buddy. Get it. Live a little longer.
3: Run towards the beeping/flashing noises, thinking they're a mine to be defused ala Fallout 3. It's a mine, yes. Run, noooooooo......
4: Burn through your pistol ammo on the sentry bots. That shit be rare, yo.
5: Don't forget if you open up the quick inventory it's HOLD Y, not "Press: Toss Mine at Pritchard. Or Civillian. Or police officer....you get the picture.
6: Pick the tranq rifle. It's a waste of pixels.

Do This!
1: Explore! Try new things, meet new people and kill them.
2: Eat and drink. Nothing quite like trying to walk through the Hive with a couple of beers, wine and the cocktails churning through your system.
3: Have fun, buy the game, wish they'd re-relaese Deus Original with these graphics and playability...

-Tir

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 13 2011, 07:02 AM

Hold on, Tranquilizer Rifle is useless to you?! Well whatcha gonna say about the folding hairdryer, er, Stun Gun?!

Posted by: Faraday Sep 13 2011, 07:23 AM

He probably hasn't gotten the lead system yet.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 13 2011, 06:57 PM

The Tranq rifle does take a bit to get used to. The shots need a few seconds to take effect, and the reload time is pretty long.

It is best used from cover, where enemies can't immediately locate you if their buddy suddenly slumps over. With some skill, you can knock out one guy, and as each of the other guards in the area goes to investigate the fallen body, tranq them too before they wake up the previous guys. Most patrolling guards have spots in their patrol paths where they stand still for a few seconds, so you might not even need the target-leading system - I never bothered getting it.



-k

Posted by: Rastus Sep 13 2011, 09:02 PM

The stun gun is a magic wand that makes problems go away, that's what it is. Guard getting to close you your corner? Abra-kadabra! Camera's and laser traps? Alakazam! Securty bots that need naps? BAM! Bosses that need to goddamn stay still? Mazal tov! After all my time playing SR, I never realized a mere taser was such wonderous weapon with so many uses.

Also, I wish you could toss bombs in the Sarif Offices. Leaving a gas mine under Pritchard's desk would be the perfect way to let him know I care.

Posted by: Tiralee Sep 14 2011, 12:10 AM

Considering the "lack of ammo supply" for the tranq rifle, hell yes it's useless unless you're a comitted pacifist.

The taser is vastly powerful, something I learnt to my shame when battling the second boss last night, after dumping the shockwand of joy for a tricked out Heavy rifle....that was only really effective after I absent-mindedly tossed out an EMP mine thinking it was a frag.


Oh, and for the first time, I've successfully hacked a turret BEFORE killing everyone on the damn level. Tossed that sucker into the travelator and strode around in the lower levels holding my new friend in front of me like a boss. Need to hack a door? No worries, "hey R2, massacre anything that comes this way while I farm xp?" <Beep! Beep!>

And back in Detroit, so damned disappointed that I can't toss a turret through a manhole, it would make farming the police for shiny soo much easier. (Say hello to my 4 little friends....)

Liking the plot, managed to save the pilot, totally forgetting my tricked-out typhoon with 15 rounds of ammo left when running into a firefight, screaming "Red FACTION!" ...I think it sort of must have distracted them, being in communist China and all...

Loot, loot, loot the bodies. No, I don't need another 4 containers of bioenergy foods. Hell no, I'm not getting my biochip swapped out, not in-country...now, where's the whorehouse? I've got rifles to sell.

-Tir

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 15 2011, 01:11 AM

At some point in China you can break intoa garage where the computer has a chat log where they explicitly go over the plan to force people to swap their biochips. That was enough of a suggestion for me not to replace it unless they made it story mandatory to continue.

Posted by: LostProxy Sep 15 2011, 01:24 AM

The first thing I realized as I went through DE:HR was wow SR cyberlimbs suck compared to these. Which immediately killed my dreams of making a Jensen character. That and the essence cost.

Posted by: Tiralee Sep 15 2011, 01:28 AM

And yes, to all you haters out there, I HAVE now used the tranq rifle - the "must not kill" side mission for Ms Generic Face in China2.
Yeah, this was going to be good... My most non-lethal option was the SMG, and that was because I'd just picked it up off a ganger and hadn't bothered to waste enchancements on it.

Was all set to head into the Gardens for some more sneaky/hurt in the capsule hotel and got a rude shock when the meeting place was downstairs (in the alley/open sewer) and had to "accidently" waste some Belltower employees who looked at me the wrong way.
NOTE: The revolver with explosive rounds is the best non-sneaky weapon yet! Knockdown, AOE and faster reloading that a shotgun:) I must have sold about 400 rounds of that ammo before I bothered to try it out...


So, tranq rifle (found in a handy locked garage) installed that "leading fire mode" Mod I had floating about since China 1 and took a deep breath.

I wish I had more than 4 rounds for it though, although I did pick up a PEPs with 3 rounds.

4 shots, 4 headshots and then I ran in stealthed and accidently tossed a grenade.... Which was Gas. Ohshitohshitohshit...wait, mission completed, ghost? Merciful soul, etc, etc? I didn't realise gas grenades were a non-lethal option!

In hindsight, you could easily take them out in one hit with 2 well-placed gas grenades - duh me.


Oh and the best level so far has to be the shipyard! Robots and turrets to hack, cameras everwhere and I think one guy might have shot at me, not sure. Loot out the yin-yang as well...could really use a lot more mods/praxis but that has to be the easiest mission apart from the one in the Detroit Convention centre (Have leg mod 1, lift object mod 1, Find a toilet, crawl through a vent, drop down, hack the computers, move the box to beneath the vent, jump up, climb into vent again, get out about 4k xp richer.)

Also, I think there's a sidemission that's not documented, as I've found a machine pistol/ammo/credchip in the vents of the detroit convention centre and a sniper rifle in a vent above the gas Station with instructions to "shoot at someone, get them to fight and you'll be well-paid". Seems like someone's doing social engineering with rocks again.

As an aside, sort of disappointed that I wasted that Carlo fellow (that I let run free in the first mission) by accident when looking for information on the "Humanity" surgeon. I thought he was rather well-characterised. And Tong!~

-Tir

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 15 2011, 02:48 PM

Yea this is what kind of made me sad too, all this cool transhumanism stuff that could be explored but can't because it might conceivably be something that mages couldn't do easily. /end rant

Actually a jensen bild sans hacking would be pretty easy, use a "what would sammy do" thread as a base line and make sure you get an internal airtank.

Posted by: Critias Sep 15 2011, 03:31 PM

Uhh...what?

SR4A's cyberlimbs are the best cyberlimbs have ever been. You can totally make Jensen's arms in SR.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 15 2011, 03:37 PM

Actually, I did. However, the guy has so much hidden shit in himself you won't be able to fit it all even with deltaware. I mean, rebreather, jump boosters, Icarus, Typhoon, dermal armor, EMP shielding... You'd have difficulty fitting that on a tank, not to mention a guy.

Posted by: Critias Sep 15 2011, 03:46 PM

But most of which has nothing at all to do with the statement "SR cyberlimbs suck."

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 15 2011, 04:26 PM

typhoon can't be done in SR i think . .
Icarus . . isn't that a nano hive with some healing nanites?
you'd have 4 points of essence lost for the arms and legs, you'd lost another 1,5 for the dermal armor.
and 0,4 for the lungs. Everything else can be placed into the limbs, right? O.o

Posted by: Critias Sep 15 2011, 04:29 PM

I suspect Mr. Jensen wasn't the sort to be taking full essence loss for those augmentations, personally.

Posted by: Adarael Sep 15 2011, 04:29 PM

Nah, Icarus is the jump-from-any-height system.

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 15 2011, 04:30 PM

My calculations were done with standard grade.
I guess because he has beta or so . . oh, i forgot the eye-stuff too . .

so the icarus stuff is the hydraulic jacks for legs add-on.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Sep 15 2011, 05:13 PM

Given Jensen's biology, it would be safe to say he has something to the effect of a Type O system that only works for Cyberware (as opposed to bioware). With that, you could fairly well recreate him.

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 15 2011, 05:26 PM

Isn't there biocompatibility for either bio or cyber?

Posted by: Critias Sep 15 2011, 05:52 PM

Yeah, but it's only 10% (not the effective 30% of Type O).

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 15 2011, 05:56 PM

Yes, but not as potent as Type O in regard to Bioware.

Posted by: LostProxy Sep 16 2011, 01:24 AM

What I'm saying is that cyberlimbs (torso and head included not just arms) take up tons of essence which makes it to fit other cyber in there. That's why they suck to me. I can either have 9/9/9 in one or two limbs or 6/8/8/ in everything plus room for MBW, Encephalon 2, synthcardium, etc. Really it depends on the build but for a generalist like Jensen I lost out on resources/essence giving him a limb and made them back when I replaced it with other implants. I ended up with much higher dice pools all around sans the limb(s).


But that's just derailing the thread. Agree to disagree?

Posted by: Critias Sep 16 2011, 03:53 AM

No problem, I'm not bickering so much as just being confused/disagreeing with that one spot -- wherein you specifically said cyberlimbs suck. I think it's more an issue of overall essence capacity, and not so much with just cyberlimbs, unless I'm misreading or misunderstanding your overall complaint. Like I said, I really think cyberlimbs in the current edition are the best they've ever been, so it just caught be by surprise to see someone insisting they were garbage, I guess. No harm, no foul.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Sep 16 2011, 06:01 PM

It occurs to me that the Icarus Landing System is a rather ill-omened named augment.

What next? The Hindenburg Fire Prevention System?

JFK Cranial Armor?

Stephen Hawking Marionette System?

Michael J. Fox Surgical Hands?

Posted by: CanRay Sep 16 2011, 06:14 PM

Why not those? We already have the Stephen Hawking Spell'n'Speak.

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 16 2011, 06:41 PM

Icarus Landing System < = Icarus would wish to have this!
JFK Cranial Armor < = JFK would wish to have this too!

Posted by: X-Kalibur Sep 16 2011, 10:25 PM

It looks like your utopia is more like a fruitopia.

Posted by: CanRay Sep 17 2011, 12:09 AM

That's because I don't have AR on. Less Utopia and more Dystopia.

Posted by: Faraday Sep 17 2011, 12:54 AM

Deus ex has a lot of the elements of what Tactical AR software looks like to me.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 17 2011, 01:27 AM

Jihadist Recoil Stabilization System

Posted by: CanRay Sep 17 2011, 01:44 AM

They have that. It's called putting your off-hand on top of the assault rifle the keep the recoil down as you hold down the trigger.

Posted by: Psikerlord Sep 17 2011, 05:15 AM

i haven't read this thread for fear of spoilers, as I'm only part way through Deus Ex ... but allow me to say - THIS GAME IS AWESOME. Very SR, like playing a street sam or hacker shooter merc or something. But without the magic of course. Very highly recommended.

Posted by: hermit Sep 17 2011, 02:57 PM

Also, it has datajacks, jack-in hacking, a cute little Virtual Reality Dungeon minigame for hacking, and no AR or wireless connectivity.

Posted by: Rastus Sep 17 2011, 03:20 PM

Issat so? What do you suppose makes up the HUD and all the enviromental highlights?

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 18 2011, 02:47 AM

Ha ha, then Jihadist Sustained Fire Heat Compensation System is a glove.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Sep 20 2011, 07:29 AM

Well maybe that's a problem, and to me more systematic cyber hate.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Sep 20 2011, 08:05 AM

...hmm, does anyone have an idea how to remotely control a guy in SR? My idea involves a hot sim module, a simrig, an offsite rigger and a live sim feed with RAS override disabled. Basically, what the simrig picks up is sent to an offsite rigger, modified to elicit an appropriate response and fed back to the puppet onsite.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Sep 20 2011, 08:08 PM

Force someone to enter a boxing event while you throw the punches without getting hit from the comfort of your living room.

Posted by: Faraday Sep 20 2011, 10:37 PM

You're looking for a Stirrup Interface. Augmentation: Pg 153

Posted by: Stahlseele Sep 20 2011, 10:49 PM

Nowhere does it say it works on Metahumans though . .

Posted by: Adarael Sep 21 2011, 12:11 AM

It also doesn't say it DOESN'T.

Shockewellen had some interesting info related to that subject, though you'd have to be able to read German to make use of that.

Posted by: Faraday Sep 21 2011, 03:02 AM

Little reason to assume you couldn't, really. It's just usually not worth the expense.

Posted by: LostProxy Sep 21 2011, 04:50 AM

You got it, I don't like them because they eat up essence so fast and there are so many things I need/want to cram into my weak flesh body. Personally I would prefer that more things could be fit into cyberlimbs. It would be nice if I could fit my encephalon 2 into a cyber skull or that my MBW took up capacity in my cybertorso instead of essence.

On subject though, your main weapon the Combat Rifle. Isn't that essentially an Ares HVBAR with armor piercing flechettes?

Posted by: Faraday Sep 21 2011, 05:56 AM

Plus homing system.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Sep 22 2011, 02:06 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pxjnl1yuXk



-k

Posted by: Tiralee Oct 3 2011, 04:05 AM

3rd time through now - had a restart due to the fucked-up "Cloak and dagger" quest that made my 4 hours of sneaky-sneaky void and useless (Warning: Some of the gangers you've got to "remove" from around the murder witness Big-T or Jay -T warp into walls/next floor up/water tower next door (!))

..I swear, I'm double the amount of Praxis points that I was in my first two runthroughs.

Non-deadly takedowns and hacking every goddamned thing makes for some decent cred (56k...and I can't buy a thing with it!) and XP. Knowing how the weapons work also makes it an easier game, although I was about ready to shout at a lone civillian running for an alarm after I missed her for the 3rd time with the damned taser.
"I smash through walls" arm upgrade also gives you an extra 2 praxis points and a ton of xp from just wandering about the place, opening up windows of egress. And some hilarious takedowns.

Hacking: Yeah, get some skills, makes life easier. Interestingly, I've found that the level 3 zones are hardest overall. You don't get many level 4 (and even fewer level 5, I think 3 in detroit 1, 3 in China 1) but you just hoover up the extra Stop! and Nuke virus oneshots from the level 2 and 1 devices.
Turrets are fun, but far between. Robots are awesome fun. Cameras are teh debil. Subhume them all.

Guns!: Stick to a weapon and upgrade it. The Assault rifle with all the tricks I'm using as my sniper for 1 hit headshots atm. The 10mm is your go-to Predator clone, the Revolver with ExEx is the crowd-control tool of choice. I've found everything else either comes too late, has no ammo or simply takes up too much inventory real estate for the times you use it. Weapon choices as follows:
*The Heavy rifle is only to be used to sell to the gundealers. It has no real use apart from making everyone very aware of your presence during the wind-up 1 second gap between you pulling "fire" and the bulletstream flowing to your target.
*Plasma Rifle: it's the GEP gun, same high damage output, same looooong fire times.
*Laser Rifle: God, I so wish I could have got this back in detroit 1. Upgrade that thing and you turn into the terminator. Keep it and upgrade if you can for the end-endgame.
*Crossbow: Scoped, silent, has about 30 crossbow arrows total in game. Would be awesome if you could recover arrows ("Black Arrow, fly far, fly true!")
*Tranq Rifle: Ulgh. Oh, yes, once it's got the sighting guide installed, it will hit things. Who will run and scream before falling over. I think there's 80 rounds total for this elephant of a gun.
*Sniper/Silent Sniper: The D/L silent sniper is a nice weapon, 5 round mag (Versus the unupgraded 3-round in normal sniper), a little more shaky in the sights. Both have too little ammo, too much inventory realestate requirements.
Shotguns: Ok, I'll be honest here - I don't use them. As in ever.
Rocket-Launcher: Inventory hanger queen, only comes out to play when doing a screenshot .
Grenades: God, loving these now. Gas grenades, ohh, save those little suckers, take out a guy, toss his body somewhere conspicious and then lob a grenade in there when his buddies start running. Lotsa fun.

Gameplay: ...you DO turn into a B/E Street Sammy, even if you really wanted to go all "Invisible Hulk Smash" on everyone. I've found that capping the guys I take down with non-lethal methods prevents their friends from slapping them into conciousness...it's very "Leon, the Professional" now. Find a guy, take him down, find a hidy-hole, drag him back there, equip the silenced pistol, iron-sight headshot, check for witnesses, rinse, repeat.
I used to headhsot them in the open, but looking back on a level, I was struck by the number of odd red splotches lying about the place...Ohh...


Tir Out:)

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Oct 3 2011, 02:41 PM

If you shoot someone in the head with the tranq rifle they go down. It's just like the M9 in Metal Gear 2.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Oct 3 2011, 04:19 PM

In a non-lethal playthru you learn to really love that tranq rifle, even before you get the guidance system for it, which is nice, but ultimately not all that useful when you can learn the drop on the darts.

Posted by: Faraday Oct 4 2011, 06:11 AM

This. Also, if you shoot someone from behind but not in the head, they don't notice and keep walking for a while, then drop. This has actually come in handy. eg: tagged a guy walking by a camera, but didn't headshot. He keeps walking and ends up out of the camera LOS before falling asleep.

Posted by: Tiralee Oct 6 2011, 11:28 AM

Yeah - that lag from shot, and where you shot the npc took some getting used to (I cleaned out Tong's parking garage using non-lethal techniques) but after the first couple, you could time the drop pretty well: Backshot the patroller, move, hide again, headshot his concerned buddy once the first one dropped, stealth over and takedown the 1-2 coming over because, "I think I heard something!". Good xp, better weapons/inventory nice things.

Although hacking a turret and walking around carrying that thing was also awesome fun.

Best fun yet? Montreal. there's 2 (!) turrets you can heft into the travelator which made the underground base assuault more of "I carry death here, put it down, go back, drop death 2 here, open door, move death one into the door, doors stay open and hostiles die now."

the maxxed-out laser rifle is a pimpstick of doom. The Assualt rifle very nice, the pistols, eh, they're pistols.
For a joke I tricked out the silenced sniper rifle. That thing will shoot through schools. Schools.

Although I also downloaded the explosive pack, I found the remote mine sachets a bit....meh. The Autounlocker was used twice, both times while under fire and I couldn't be bothered waiting through another fucking loadscreen from a previous save. Never did get around to using the Grenade launcher - that would have been awesome if it was an underbarrel attachment to some of the bigger guns.

- oh, and the "humanity first" choice...sucked.

-Tir
-Tir.

Posted by: Critias Oct 7 2011, 12:33 AM

You kiddin' me? A tricked out 10mm is a magical murderwand.

Posted by: Tiralee Oct 7 2011, 04:18 AM

Yes, up to a point, the 10mm is the deathstick of choice, but after you start grabbing more than one guard's attention, you want something with which you can lean around a corner and paint the corridor.

Of course, with the Murdertron 4000 (the Laser Rifle) you can just shoot that thing through walls.

And versus turrets or robots, the 10mm ain't as much fun as the revolver with ExEx; 4-5 shots and that thing is down.

I sort of wish the stun-gun was upgradeable - having a 4-shot (Heh, Defiance Taser!) with faster reload would have been very cool.
The PEPS...yeah...not so fun.

Did I miss out on much by not using the shotgun/s and grenade launcher?


-Tir

Posted by: Critias Oct 7 2011, 08:55 PM

Turrets and robots were largely non-issues (to my hacker), and I never really had much trouble with multiple targets with the 10mm. *shrugs* Different strokes, I guess.

Posted by: Faraday Oct 8 2011, 06:15 AM

With multiple targets, you break out the grenades and then lay some non-lethal melee smackdown.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 8 2011, 10:20 PM

In case of multiple targets, you WAIT. Until one of them looks the other way or something like that. Then you whip out you 10mm RAPE CANNON (I used the pistol all the way through the game, the AP mod turns it into RAPE CANNON that takes out anything but the Ogres in one shot), nail one and wait til the rest finds him. Headshot, rinse, repeat. Unless you have to deal with cyberserkers in Panchaea. Then you pick up the conveniently available plasma cannon and just fire til they're all dead.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Oct 8 2011, 10:27 PM

Funny, I just bypassed all the cyberserkers.






-k

Posted by: Tiralee Oct 9 2011, 11:50 AM

Cyberserkers? I thought it was past time I used up all that typhoon ammo I'd been stockpiling... That, and 2 rounds of the ExExecutioner Revolver - Sure, hacking turrets is awesome fun, but so is enjoying the rag-doll physics of them all.

Tossing those ever-so explosive gas cylinders is fun, and cheap as well - you can get a chain-reaction happening when you're forced down and are under fire in China 2. (Discovered that by accident, the explosions just wouldn't stop for about 40 seconds.)

-Tir

Posted by: Aaron Oct 9 2011, 01:29 PM

Dear Dumpshockers,

Thank you very much for turning me on to this awesome game.

Love,
Aaron

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 9 2011, 03:43 PM

*grins*
your poor little bit of free time ^^

Posted by: Aaron Oct 10 2011, 10:37 AM

True, although somehow things have lined up such that all of my non-day-job employers are delayed in assigning word count, so I get some free time. For now ...

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 10 2011, 12:44 PM

Good on you!
Everybody needs some time to tell the world to go fuck itself . .

Posted by: Daishi Oct 15 2011, 09:59 PM

I wasn't sure about the heavy rifle until I got it upgraded. Laser sight, cooling system and 4x ammo upgrades (200 rounds total), plus the recoil augmentations. You want everyone to come check out that mechanical whine coming from around the corner. Then don't forget to laugh maniacally as the bodies pile up on the floor. The long reload animation is actually satisfying when it only comes up after everyone is dead. The gun also minces the bosses (though not as fast as the typhoon).

Posted by: Tanegar Oct 19 2011, 06:03 AM

OK, I took the plunge. (Thanks, 25% off Steam sale!) Now how do you eat things? One of the tutorials mentioned that you can replenish your energy by eating food items, but the one food item I've found so far went straight into my hotbar, where I couldn't do anything with it. Pressing the number key had no effect, and I couldn't drag the thing into my regular inventory, so WTF?

Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 19 2011, 06:50 AM

Pressing the number key should make you use the item. It will stay in the hotbar after you use all of them, though - it's confusing, but has its merits.

Posted by: Tanegar Oct 19 2011, 12:06 PM

OMG, I just realized where I recognize one of the canned screams from: System Shock 2! Awesome.

Posted by: Tanegar Oct 21 2011, 02:56 AM

I totally want to make a spur-wielding melee street sam now.

Posted by: Seriously Mike Oct 21 2011, 07:52 AM

...I already did.

Posted by: crash2029 Oct 23 2011, 01:50 AM

So did I.

Anybody play the missing link DLC yet?

Posted by: Tanegar Oct 24 2011, 10:02 PM

Reached the end.

Posted by: Faraday Oct 25 2011, 09:26 AM

I agree, I didn't really like any of the endings except for

Posted by: Backgammon Oct 25 2011, 02:13 PM

I'm playing Missing Link, I'm at the final boss battle, so just about done.

Overall, it's a good DLC. Challenging, actually. I'm playing on Hard and I died a lot. You need to think about your sneaking, cause you don't want to get caught in a firefight and the sneaking "routes" aren't that obvious. It's a good challenge in the spirit of Deux Ex. The story picks up nicely towards the end, too.

Now, is it worth the roughly 20$ being asked? That is a steep price. If you're a solid fan of the game and have the money to spare, I recommend it. If you're tight on money and you decide to "splurge" on this, you might be disapointed by the length of gameplay.

Posted by: LurkerOutThere Oct 25 2011, 03:00 PM

So far Backgammon's the first person I've heard say anything positive about missing link.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Nov 14 2011, 06:33 AM

Just played through the Missing Link.

It wasn't bad. It wasn't overwhelmingly interesting. The graphics and atmosphere were good. But it was definitely more of a combat mission in my opinion than Deus Ex: Human Resources. It was short so they had to put the screws in, and in my opinion either you went in and exterminated the enemy, or else in the enclosed spaces if you failed at stealth they'd all clump in on you and overwhelm you.

It was all right. I enjoyed it.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Nov 19 2011, 03:52 PM

Started playing through HR again on "Give Me Deus Ex". Last time my playthrough on normal difficulty was less lethal. This time, it's not.

Even on max difficulty level, it is so much easier to Rambo the levels than to stealth them. That always seems to be the case in video games. Even in Thief 2 I remember it being a lot easier to be like Rambo with the compound bow than to try and go full stealth. In DEHR the big constraint is limited ammo pickups. I LOL at the newspaper headlines reflecting the grim reaper having come to town.

Posted by: hobgoblin Nov 20 2011, 08:08 PM

Yep, i ended up carrying every kind of small arm available because it seemed i only get ammo for weapons i did not opt for using...

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Dec 18 2011, 05:51 PM

You know what I wish someone would do? Make a Deus Ex style game set in the present day. Let the player run around and influence the outcome of several local events. Make it realistic and believable. It would be an interesting project. It'd still be a Deus Ex game, though, meaning that you could physically do things to people or objects based on gameplay, as opposed to simply being an adventure game.

Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 3 2013, 04:06 PM

Next part is in the making, and it seems as if there is going to be a movie adaption of the next part too.
Square Enix secured the naming rights to „Deus Ex: Human Defiance“
And CBS secured both deusex-humandefiance.com and deusexhumandefiancefilm.com

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Mar 3 2013, 08:28 PM

I'm starting to really want a sequel from Warren Spector in which he kind of gives a ten year retrospective on the philosophical themes of the first game. The world has changed much since then and I'm curious if the original messages or underlying ideas are in any impacted or illuminated.

Posted by: Tanegar Mar 3 2013, 11:36 PM

I see what you did there.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Mar 5 2013, 04:20 PM

http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/deus-ex-human-defiance-film-title-not-next-game/

Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 5 2013, 04:40 PM

you did read the line where i say that Square Enix has also secured rights to Deus Ex: Human Defiance right? O.o

Posted by: X-Kalibur Mar 5 2013, 06:18 PM

Square Enix has done movies, you know.

Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Mar 5 2013, 06:28 PM

A Deus Ex film? Oh, that's gonna suck.

Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 5 2013, 06:38 PM

no i don't.
they have?

Posted by: X-Kalibur Mar 5 2013, 07:33 PM

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0173840/?ref_=sr_2

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0385700/?ref_=sr_1

Posted by: Stahlseele Mar 5 2013, 07:50 PM

Ah, interesting.
Not a big fan of FF to be honest, these went right by me i think . .

Posted by: X-Kalibur Mar 5 2013, 08:03 PM

I was mostly pointing them out because they've already made video game movies in the past. I was actually one of the people who liked Spirits Within. If you ignore the Final Fantasy part it's a decent movie and the CGI was great... I could argue most of the games they made since then have tried to be movies anyway.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Mar 5 2013, 11:55 PM

Spirits Within was a decent sci fi flick with gorgeous animation. Not based on any of the games, however.

Advent Children was a sequel to FFVII and had some kick ass wahoo fight scenes, but the rest of the film is pretty forgettable.


-k

Posted by: _Pax._ Mar 6 2013, 03:29 AM

... but clearly drawing on all the usual pre-FF13 themes. And I, too, rather liked it. I wish they would make a game out of it, honestly.


.... there was a "rest of the film" ...?? ;D

Posted by: KarmaInferno Mar 7 2013, 03:47 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dtzsQBcxzE



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxjGn30PDA was pretty much all fight scenes too. Technically a game, I suppose.



-k

Posted by: Iduno Aug 25 2013, 02:33 PM

I'm late to the party, but I finally got and finished the game.

The game was full of interesting side information from the newcasts, radio shows, newspapers, NPC conversations, and emails. It really added a bit of depth to the setting. I also liked the shout-outs to the original game. And it wouldn't be Deus Ex without (limited) exploration and air vents. The hacking minigame was pretty entertaining, and profitable. Also, the end of the game finally sated my thirst for just becoming a cybered killing machine taking down waves of enemies with the heavy rifle.

It did bother me that the game was so linear (but the game was made by Square-Enix, so I shouldn't be surprised). At one point there were even literal lit-up arrows pointing out which way you had to go. Most of the alternate paths were so short and obvious that it ruined the illusion of having actual options. I was pretty happy about getting my pistol fully modded, and then quit finding any ammunition for it. I was hopeful for the augmentations giving you options that would make you want to replay the game, but I ended up with enough xp and praxis kits to have all of the augmentations I wanted halfway through my first playthrough. Although if you just wanted to kill some guys on the first playthrough, you would lose out on enough xp that you could replay it again to see what augs got you. I was also a bit confused by this game (the prequel) seeming like it had a higher technology level than the original. At least I don't remember lasers and electronic newspapers in the original, or the ability to convert food into bioeletric power instead of using batteries. I also missed the complexity that was added to the original by having different items you had to choose from, like rebreathers and chem suits.

Overall, it was a decent game with a lot of potential to have been more.