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Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 12 2011, 06:54 PM

OK, so i stumbled upon this on the MWLL boards.
Who had stumbled upon it on the CBT boards.
https://twitter.com/InnerSphereNews
They have been releasing puzzle parts of a bigger image.
The image of a Mech. Which we experts have, by now, come to tentatively call an Atlas (OMG SQUEE!)
Furthermore, the Bottom of the bigger Picture has some writing on it, that indicates a release date maybe(OMG PLZ!)
The image used for comparing the hidden Mech: http://i.imgur.com/NMjPpl.jpg
The image as complete as possible right now: http://i.imgur.com/lgYGL.jpg
Link to the CBT board which does the re-assemblimg of the snippets:
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,11198.330.html

Don't really know who did the right image in the comparsion one . .

Posted by: Adarael Oct 12 2011, 09:38 PM

I assume you've seen this video? I mean, I HOPE you have...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJU4iA4TWIs

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 12 2011, 09:47 PM

You assume correctly.

Posted by: Adarael Oct 12 2011, 10:01 PM

Okay, whew. I was gonna say!

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 12 2011, 10:10 PM

What? "Hand over your Nerd-License"? ^^

Posted by: Adarael Oct 12 2011, 10:23 PM

I was thinking more like, "Have you been ill? I know you love mechwarrior. Should I call a doctor?"

Posted by: CanRay Oct 12 2011, 11:02 PM

Well, at least Smith & Tinker are doing something.

Also, I think we're going to need bigger guns. Bigger fraggin' guns!

Posted by: Shortstraw Oct 13 2011, 03:00 AM

Only played mechwarrior 2, given it is free is 4 worth downloading to play?

Posted by: CanRay Oct 13 2011, 03:07 AM

Well, you won't ask for your money back.

Posted by: Faraday Oct 13 2011, 03:12 AM

Quite. It was very fun when I played around on it.

Posted by: Tiralee Oct 13 2011, 04:03 AM

"Only played mechwarrior 2, given it is free is 4 worth downloading to play?"

Pfft! Hell yes.

I liked the mechanic of juggling mechs/weapons/availability - starting out with the Dragoons Vs that of the Highlanders, that little bit of flavour.
Liked Mechwarrior, loved Mercs, thought 3 was disappointing and 4 (storyline) a trifle overwrought...good battles though. (So, save sister or loot the ammo depot. Yeah, like THAT's a hard choice....<later> "Oh crap, I ditched my whiney sister for this! Joker can go hit on co-eds at some bumfuck backwater training facility after we win...")

4 Mercs works soo much better, less bitchy whinging, more Solaris action! And it's free!

I would like it though if you could write in a subroutine that allowed ammo/coolant useage to reflect on mech handling. I mean, after you've expended all the munitions, I'd like a mech to handle lighter...

-Tir

Getting stuck between a bunch of Calliopes hurts...but not as much as having your wingman stupidly reverse into you and go critical against your weak back armour.

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 14 2011, 10:16 AM

The MW4 Mercs Free Release also incorporates all of the MEchs from MW4 Vengeance, Black Knight and the MechPacks i think.
PLUS several others that MekTek modded in. PLUS elementals. PLUS More Weapons.

Also, if you have a computer that can handle it, try and get your paws on Crysis Wars and download the MWLL Mod.
You can Play Mechs, Tanks, ASF, Hovercraft, VTOL, Artillery and frigging Annoying little Pest Elementals too!

Posted by: Erik Baird Oct 15 2011, 12:06 AM

Okay, why is the Warhammer worried about a Jenner? The pilot oughta be thinking, "Eat this, gnat!" And what happened to the female computer voice from the previous MW's?

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 15 2011, 04:18 PM

Because the Jenner is one of the most heavyly armed light mechs and can out dance a warhammer in it's sleep to pepper the thin backside with it's considerable arsenal?
As for the Voice, no idea . .

Posted by: KarmaInferno Oct 15 2011, 04:36 PM

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0749442/




-k

Posted by: Erik Baird Oct 15 2011, 05:39 PM

Yeah, but the Jenner is jumping.... That makes the Jenner a wonderful target. A single PPC shot will burn off the armor for any location it hits. The Jenner can't take two PPC shots from a Warhammer, let alone the alpha strike the Warhammer could have delivered in the trailer.

Posted by: ggodo Oct 15 2011, 07:41 PM

That's one thing I'd like them to put in the games, a little bit of balance between the mechs, or at least a reason to use something smaller than an assault for everything. I love the lighter mechs, but they've always felt so useless in the PC games. Admittedly, I've only a clear recollection of 3&4 because my copy of two is annoyed at my modern operating system. Were there non-Solaris missions in those where Lights were useful?

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 16 2011, 03:59 AM

Actually, MW4 Mercs had one specific Mission for a REALLY light and fast Mech . .
You had to sneak into an enemy base and stand there for some time next to a building to scan it . .
And then get the hell out of there . .
Otherwise? Pretty much no . .
MW3 is a bit more difficult to say, because you had FULL Customization in that one.
And you CAN build some really horrible rapey light mechs, if you know how to . .

Posted by: CanRay Oct 16 2011, 04:05 AM

Shoot and scoot! Shoot and scoot!

http://youtu.be/6npO-NoOPOg

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 29 2011, 08:39 PM

Well, the Atlas is pretty much complete, including the FACE:
http://i.imgur.com/uzvus.jpg

Posted by: Tanegar Oct 29 2011, 10:06 PM

Or, as I like to call it, the hundred-ton pile of "Fuck you."

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 29 2011, 11:19 PM

Well, as long as the Atlas was the only 100t Mech, sure.
Now it's just another Lyran Scout Mech . .

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 30 2011, 07:38 PM

OK, it is a Steiner Scout-Lance:
http://p.twimg.com/AdBpy-ZCQAESWXL.jpg:large

Posted by: ggodo Oct 30 2011, 09:22 PM

Steiner, We scout with assault mechs because we can.

Posted by: CanRay Oct 30 2011, 09:27 PM

"Aggressive Reconnaissance."

Posted by: ggodo Oct 30 2011, 09:49 PM

It's Reconnaissance, with a lightsaber.

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 30 2011, 10:10 PM

Slow and Steady instead of Fast and Furious.
Steiner Scout-Lances can out-maneuvre most fortifications, and that's usually enough.

Posted by: CanRay Oct 30 2011, 10:13 PM

And probably call artillery on their own positions so that the poor guys in Arty don't have to do complex calculations.

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 30 2011, 10:15 PM

Well, seeing how the Steiner Scouts are usually the only ones who can take and survive an artillery Hit . . yeah, sounds about right too . .

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 31 2011, 06:44 PM

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/new-mechwarrior-game-a-pc-exclusive/
YES YES YES!

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 31 2011, 08:10 PM

http://p.twimg.com/AdHBDTtCAAA4RvV.jpg
ONLINE . . makes me kinda sad . . .
Summer 2012 . . Sounds nice enough O.o

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 31 2011, 08:45 PM

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/meet-mechwarrior-online-piranhas-free-to-play-tactical-mech-sim/
AAAARG -.-
http://mwomercs.com/

Posted by: Ryu Oct 31 2011, 09:10 PM

What is this "free-to-play" stuff? How do I justify being annoyed by Steam and their ilk if I don´t have to pay a price?

And Ryu is still free. Lucky me.

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 31 2011, 09:37 PM

Free to Play is an MMO Business Modell . .
You don't pay to play. But you CAN pay to play BETTER . .

Posted by: Tanegar Oct 31 2011, 10:12 PM

You mean that awesome Warhammer-versus-Atlas trailer is for a game that's just going to be one more avenue for me to be screamed at by foul-mouthed 14-year-olds using words I really, really hope they don't understand? Le sigh.

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 31 2011, 10:27 PM

You know World of Tanks?
I guess it's gonna be kinda like that.
We'll have to wait and see though . .

Posted by: silva Oct 31 2011, 10:48 PM

Im extremelly disappointed.

I was hoping so much for this game, and now its just another online teen fragfast.



(well.. time to go back to the C++ books, and continue with my project of a Front Mission-inspired Battletech game.. )

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 31 2011, 10:58 PM

Yeah, many people are very disappointed with this developement . .
Basically, it looks like World of Tanks with Mechs right now . .

And if you get something going with that project of yours, let me know please ^^

Posted by: Chimera Oct 31 2011, 11:59 PM

I dunno. I'm stoked for an online game. A true test of a mechwarrior's skill is against a thinking opponent

As long as they don't try to make it a DOTA with robots...

Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 04:36 AM

Spawn, missiles, dead. Spawn, missiles, dead. Spawn, missiles, dead.

Posted by: Adarael Nov 1 2011, 05:32 AM

I'm gonna put it this way: if Primetide hadn't come to talk about Shadowrun Online, and you'd read this about SRO, wouldn't you be saying the same thing? Withhold judgement until there are some details about the game - ANY details.

Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 05:37 AM

Or a Beta.

But, mark my words, my games will likely go: Spawn, missiles, dead. Spawn, missiles, dead. Spawn, missiles, dead.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 1 2011, 12:53 PM

No, i would NOT be saying this.
Because SHADOWRUN is PERFECT for MMO/RPG . .
While Battletech/Mechwarrior, simply, IS NOT. <.<

This looks like a World of Tanks Clone with Battlemechs right now -.-

If it's as much of a World of Tanks Clone as it seems to me right now, THAT won't be a Problem at all . .

Posted by: Chimera Nov 1 2011, 01:30 PM

I wonder though. What kind of game were people expecting MW5 to be. Something more like MW3 or 4? Or just looking for a single player game.

I also have to wonder, pure speculation mind you, if a co-op or single player mode was originally intended, and then decided against in the two years hence since it was first announced. Free-to-play (and then using microtransactions for in-game content) seems to be the new model to generate revenue.

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 1 2011, 04:27 PM

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/meet-mechwarrior-online-piranhas-free-to-play-tactical-mech-sim/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/exclusive-interview-piranhas-bullock-talks-about-the-rocky-road-to-rebooting-mechwarrior/

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/31/mechwarrior-online-developers-share-details-explain-how-mwo-evolves-the-series/

OK, after reading those, I'm marginally less pessimistic.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 1 2011, 04:46 PM

We were EXPECTING a Campaign based single player or Sandbox Style Single-Player Mech-Sim.
With Multiplayer Component. With Unreal Engine 3 Graphics and a fully working MechLab with optical Components . .
Basically, MW4Mercs Free Release done by MekTek and Mechwarrior: Living Legends put together into one Game.

Posted by: Critias Nov 1 2011, 04:51 PM

Yeah.

So it's not so much that I hate the game we're getting, I'm just disappointed because it's not what I was initially expecting. I liked the idea of an Unseen-era "throwback" game where you were gonna be the last Davion nobleman on a planet beset by Kuritans. I wanted to just get one of the older Mechwarrior games with badass upgraded graphics.

Getting a free-to-play Word of Battlemechs game isn't the worst thing ever, or anything like that. It's just not what was initially on the box, so to speak.

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 1 2011, 05:02 PM

Thirded. Personally, I'd take MW5 Mercenaries over a MW5 scripted campaign, but that's a bit like saying I'd take a night with Tera Patrick over a night with Jenna Jameson: either would send me over the moon.

Posted by: Chimera Nov 1 2011, 05:13 PM

I suppose they (the developers) are trying to get the most bang for their buck by going in the direction whats most popular now, which is online multiplayer. Diablo III is going in a similar direction, and that's created a some grumblings of its own.

Now, I'm not an apologist for anyone, and what the hell do I know; the game could sound great pre-release but end up tasting like a piece of ass pie. But what I'm most interested in is the tactical aspect that they are advertising. If they can make it so all the various weight-classes have a role to play (so to speak), then I'll take a closer look.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 1 2011, 05:16 PM

If you read de Dev Blog 0, you will see that no publisher was interested enough in making the singleplayer with multiplayer . .
So they took over the complete rights to mechwarrior. And suddenly, other corps were begging them to make an online only/f2p game.
And one of those was liked enough by them to make a deal with the corp. who had suggested that and now they are working together.

Posted by: Adarael Nov 1 2011, 05:30 PM

If you say so. That's entirely your opinion, though - there's no objective value that says "Shadowrun = Good MMO, Battletech = Bad MMO."
Personally, I think Mechwarrior is every bit as perfect for this kind of thing as Shadowrun is... If not moreso, because there's so much MORE emphasis on combat, rather than social engineering/infiltration/contacts.

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 1 2011, 08:41 PM

I'm very pleased by the definite commitment to joystick support. I get that not everyone has or wants a joystick these days, but if you're going to make a "'Mech sim" that appeals to the existing fanbase, joystick support is an absolute must-have.

Posted by: CanRay Nov 1 2011, 11:35 PM

Damned modern joysticks, all look like they were ripped out of a CF-188!

Posted by: silva Nov 2 2011, 12:30 AM

I think the only way I would be convinced is if they managed to make a MMO in the veins of EVE Online, where the gameworld and gameplay has enough depth as to be much more than a pure fragfast. Actually, if they allow players to create and manage companies in depth (be it house affiliated, or merc, or bandit kings, etc) , with its own hierarchy, economy, assets [vehicles, infantry, dropships], etc, all the while meshing and interacting with the background world and story.. well, it could rock.

One very important thing for this to work, would be the existence of a mission structure based on realistic military campaign premises - recon, patrol, rescue, diversionary maneuvers, etc. with objectives clearly related to a greater context / operational theater, and preferentially all linked to each other in a dynamic way (Eg: if your company [not necessarily you] performed a successful recon on the last mission, than you will have info available on all oposition for your next mission ).

Posted by: CanRay Nov 2 2011, 12:35 AM

I want to barrage my enemies with firepower, be able to strip their hulls, and hear the lamentations of their engineers!!!

Posted by: KarmaInferno Nov 2 2011, 12:48 AM

One of my greatest Battletech miniatures moments was surviving 150+ incoming long range missiles.

I'd made a particularly unwise move and ended my turn in range of 8 enemy units, all with LRM racks.

After a massive amount of D6s being rolled, the results were... not a single missile hit.

We decided the missiles had all hit each OTHER on the way in, and there was an area of scorched devastated ground with a little bubble in the middle containing one untouched mech, who's pilot had soiled his pants.



-k

Posted by: CanRay Nov 2 2011, 12:53 AM

I want moments like that.

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 2 2011, 01:32 AM

Play BattleTech. It's awesome. One of the most memorable moments in my group was when one of the guys attempted a running turn on pavement, failed his Piloting skill roll, and skidded into a building. On the first turn. I think it took him four more turns to inflict as much damage on the enemy as he had inflicted on himself. Then there was the time another guy jumped onto a building that couldn't hold him, fell on his head, and self-critted his own cockpit. Different game, but that also happened on the first turn.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Nov 2 2011, 02:33 AM

I've seen someone, in an Atlas, somehow fall on a road and self-crit his own cockpit.

I don't remember exactly how he did it but I remember the player getting ribbed about it a lot since it was his first turn in that game.




-k

Posted by: CanRay Nov 2 2011, 02:51 AM

I can't even get a group going in the city. Every time I try everything falls apart.

I'm on the fifth attempt this year.

Posted by: Adarael Nov 2 2011, 03:00 AM

Check out MegaMek! The AI is pretty good, all things considered, and you can play online. And most importantly, it plays just like the wargame.

Posted by: Grinder Nov 2 2011, 09:12 AM

And you're basing your judgement on...?

Posted by: KarmaInferno Nov 2 2011, 12:51 PM

Yeah, I was about to say, both are games played by groups of people.

Hell, Battletech is at it's base not much different from a board game. It just has a lot more complexity.

At least Battletech doesn't have the problem where people in online games often don't roleplay at all.



-k

Posted by: X-Kalibur Nov 2 2011, 08:39 PM

I've seen so many first turn PPC (and ERPPC) headshots in round one...

The best ever was my friend (on his birthday no less) getting his leg blown off while standing next to another mech. He falls, other mech kicks his head off, literally. I seem to recall him ejecting in time, but I could be misremembering. Or the number of ammo bin shots on mechs with machine guns... I refuse to carry those.

Posted by: CanRay Nov 2 2011, 09:01 PM

Bastards, the lot of you!

Posted by: X-Kalibur Nov 2 2011, 09:43 PM

Not our fault you live in the inhospitable north.

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 2 2011, 11:29 PM

OMG, I have to mention the "zombie Crusader." Over the course of three or four turns, this thing lost both arms and both its side torso locations, but refused to die, even with multiple 'Mechs firing on it. We couldn't even declare it combat-ineffective, because it still had the SRM-6 launchers in its legs. I think it finally died when somebody scored multiple CT crits and destroyed its engine.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Nov 3 2011, 12:36 AM

I remember figuring out a cheestastic tactic using Land-Air Mechs. The Charge.

Normally, a successful charge is resolved by taking the tonnage of the charging Mech and dividing it into 5-point groups. You then randomly roll on the hit location charts to see where each 5-point group hits the target Mech. A 55-ton Mech would inflict eleven 5-point "dings" to it's target, which when spread out over multiple hit locations isn't usually all THAT impressive. Which is why you don't normally see Mechs charging each other.

The charging Mech also takes a little damage, equal to 10% of the target Mech's tonnage, also split into 5 point groups and randomly located via the hit location chart.

However! The Land Air Mech, when in AirMech mode, can charge while flying. As such to determine the locations of the 5-point hits you use a different set of hit location charts - the Punch Location Chart. The charging Mech figures the "return" damage using the Kick Location Chart. The theory being that a flying mech can only strike the upper portions of the target mech with it's own lower portions.

The Punch Location Chart has only six possible results. The Head, two Arms, and the left/center/right Torso. A one in six chance of hitting the Head. A 55-ton charging LAM inflicts eleven 5-point hits, remember? That's a D6, rolled 11 times. Chances are, the One will be rolled at least twice. Given that no Mech can have more than 3 internal structure points and 6 armor points on the head, a successful LAM charge will on average instantly kill any mech that it strikes.

In return the LAM takes at most two 5-points hits to locations that are likely among the most heavily armored areas - it's legs. And even if it loses it's legs it can still move around, unlike it's land-bound cousins.

So of course I created a 55-ton LAM with max leg armor, almost no weapons, and the biggest damn engine I could fit. I nicknamed it The Curbstomper, as it kicked it's enemies to death.

I fielded three out of the four mechs in my lance as these. The fourth, I made a 100 ton assault mech with almost no armor or engine, and crammed in 3 or 4 Arrow artillery guns. I equipped TAG targeting on the LAMs, and whatever I wasn't kicking to death I targeted with the TAG units, which let the 100-ton mech unload it's OMGWTF damage on the hapless target from anywhere on the map.

After that game some house rules were hastily erected to stop me from doing that again.



-k

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 3 2011, 04:10 AM

Yeah, in the game before last I had a first-time player who opined that it was probably possible to munchkin the hell out of BattleTech. Another, more experienced player told him that real munchkinry only becomes possible with custom units. I agree with that sentiment. It's important for the GM (referee, whatever you want to call him) to exercise "editorial control" over homebrew 'Mechs.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Nov 3 2011, 05:03 AM

Homebrew mechs work best when you only allow modding the weapons loadout, the rest of the mech should be as built. Tearing an engine out and putting in a different one is a huge undertaking.
<edit> well, weapons and heatsinks, actually.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 09:29 AM

Weapons and Heatsink are Field Repair.
You can do that in your Backyard.
Internal Structure and Engine are Factory Level Refit.
Means you basically would have to mail your mech in and get it back one year later with the new Parts.

Posted by: CanRay Nov 3 2011, 03:03 PM

I really want to do a RPG of this now.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 03:35 PM

There is an RPG of Battletech actually.
Two, if i am not mistaken. One is called Mechwarrior and the other is called A Time of War i think.

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 3 2011, 03:37 PM

http://bg.battletech.com/?wpsc-product=a-time-of-war-the-battletech-rpg

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 03:38 PM

I don't know about the MECHWARRIOR RPG, but Character Generation in ATOW was actually horribly complicated, as far as i remember . .

Posted by: Critias Nov 3 2011, 04:42 PM

ATOW actually simplified it somewhat (in my opinion) compared to previous editions of Mechwarrior. The lifepaths are shorter and less complex than they used to be...or at least they seemed to be, when I read through ATOW on the way home from GenCon. There's the distinct possibility I was just totally exhausted and I'm misremembering.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 04:54 PM

Dude, it ATOW is SIMPLER . . i don't think i want to try what was before . .
Also, still very much possible and highly probable that you will lose a limb or sensory organ in character creation . .

Posted by: X-Kalibur Nov 3 2011, 05:24 PM

The lifepaths in MW3rd were complicated to say the very least. But, aside from all the math you end up doing at the end to finalize the character, actually rolling through the paths can be quite fun. Give your players 2 characters to roll from scratch using the normal rules (edge burn to reroll or +/- 1 to the result) and them the pick the one they prefer, in case one gets totally screwed out of being a mech pilot.

Posted by: CanRay Nov 3 2011, 05:58 PM

Yeah... And I get my group where exactly?

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 06:03 PM

same where you get your shadowrun groups ^^

Posted by: CanRay Nov 3 2011, 06:08 PM

BASTARDS THE WHOLE LOT OF YOU!

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 06:26 PM

love you too Ray ^^

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 3 2011, 07:14 PM

I would say best one I had a wolverine and did Death From Above over and over on a Stalker and walked away

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 3 2011, 07:16 PM

You should have played SR 1st ed you needed to a physicist to play and understand the formula

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 3 2011, 07:19 PM

Hell Ray you can play in our groups

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 08:00 PM

That's a bit before my time i am afraid.

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 3 2011, 08:15 PM

SR and MW are like D&D compared to what they were like to begin with

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 08:38 PM

Never played D&D.

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 6 2011, 07:22 PM

Really I thought everyone cuts their teeth on D&D

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 6 2011, 08:04 PM

Nope, not me. I'm different!

Posted by: Grinder Nov 6 2011, 08:29 PM

Big news.

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 6 2011, 09:37 PM

LOL

Posted by: CanRay Nov 6 2011, 09:46 PM

I didn't play D&D until I got to Winnipeg.

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 6 2011, 10:24 PM

Well than thinking back on this all we had was D&D when I was in grade school and of course we played because the church said it was EVIL. That made it fun LOL, now some churches who use it to for interaction skills.

Posted by: CanRay Nov 6 2011, 10:25 PM

...

Nope, still feel old.

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 6 2011, 10:29 PM

You or me?

Posted by: CanRay Nov 6 2011, 10:32 PM

Me.

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 6 2011, 10:50 PM

How do you think I feel

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 18 2011, 02:28 PM

http://mwomercs.com/news/2011/11/28-cryengine3-powers-mechwarrior-online
i am not sure how to feel about this . .

Posted by: CanRay Nov 18 2011, 05:55 PM

Already got my callsign.

Posted by: Warlordtheft Nov 18 2011, 09:01 PM

SR1--It wasn't that bad. About the only thing complicated in it was the Matrix. Ya know--that hasn't changed.

Now for the obligatory:

GET OFF MY LAWN!

Posted by: Grinder Nov 20 2011, 07:57 AM

What's your problem with that?

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 20 2011, 10:21 AM

Well, the Devs stated they had much experience with the UE3 for example.
And for the Moment it was the fact that UE3 would be very much more mod friendly than the CE3.
But then i remembered the ONLINE ONLY Part about this Game and figured that that meant no mod support whatsoever anyway . .

Posted by: CanRay Nov 20 2011, 05:10 PM

Oh, so you wanted a Rainbow Dash paintjob on the chest of your Mech, eh?

Posted by: Grinder Nov 20 2011, 05:46 PM

Ok, I see. Nothing that really bothers me, though.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 20 2011, 06:39 PM

*shrugs*
i am pretty bothered about this game as a whole . . .
i would have preferred a classic offline campaign game, maybe with co-op with additional multiplayer component, DLC's and Addons . .

Posted by: ggodo Nov 20 2011, 08:34 PM

Yeah, me too. I do think the "start in 3048 and go through battles in real time" is kinda cool, though. I asm a fictional history buff, though.

Posted by: Grinder Nov 20 2011, 09:17 PM

And that's related to the use of the CryENGINE how? I like the idea that the game will be free to play, even though it remains to be seen how balanced it will be when it comes to buying addtional/ new shit.

Posted by: CanRay Nov 20 2011, 09:50 PM

I just want jump jets and lots of speed and ECM.

"They don't call me Mongoose for nothing."

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 20 2011, 10:26 PM

Actually, yes O.o

Not at all, but most little bits of news like this, that indicate pretty agressive changes to the game that we were told about years ago just makes me more wary of the end product <.<

Posted by: Grinder Nov 21 2011, 03:58 AM

Years ago and computer gaming: you see where it doesn't fit, right?

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 21 2011, 12:54 PM

hope is allways the last thing to go.
in the west, nothing new.

Posted by: ggodo Nov 22 2011, 03:23 AM

Yeah, but I'm still hopeful that whatever comes out will be playable.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 22 2011, 12:15 PM

right now, i am just hoping this does not end up like the "shadowrun" console game from micro$oft <.<

Posted by: KarmaInferno Nov 22 2011, 09:09 PM

There was a console game by MS?



-k

Posted by: CanRay Nov 22 2011, 09:26 PM

No, there wasn't. It had the title, and *NOTHING* else that is Shadowrun. At all.

Hell, it wasn't even dystopic!

Posted by: Critias Nov 22 2011, 10:01 PM

LA LA LA LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA LA LA!

Posted by: ggodo Nov 22 2011, 10:59 PM

The sad thing is I'm still trying to play that, just so I can be completely aware of how bad it is.
Also, Why does magic smell like bacon?

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 23 2011, 12:00 AM

because it sounds violet.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 12 2012, 05:28 AM

I saw there was a http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=36062, but it's stagnated for 8+ months now...

A few concerns were raised, strikingly similar to what's been asked on the MW:O forums.

1. This is not going to be World of Tanks with BattleMechs. There are some meta-game aspects that are (or will be) simlar, but MW:O's gameplay will be very much its own.
2. The guys at Pirahna are very dedicated fans of BattleTech and the 25+ years of history it has. They aren't adding in weapons that don't exist. What's available to the Inner Sphere in 3049 is what we have access to. They also aren't going to muck with the story/canon just 'cause they can.
3. Free to Play does not mean there will be a Pay to Win/Have an Edge aspect. Every thing in the game can be purchased with the C-Bills you earn from playing. Paying real money only means you get access to stuff sooner.
4. MechWarrior: Online will not be a MMO/MMORPG. Matches will be 4v4, 8v8, or 12v12. There will be experience, which goes toward chassis familarity and pilot "perks" in one of the 4 roles (scout, assault, defend, command), but there's no reason (or benefit) to rolling 3 "characters" to be a scout, commander, or defender.
5. There will be no respawn. You die, you're out.
6. Every 'Mech has its place, and every 'Mech is useful.

Right now, there are 14 'Mechs announced. Yes, that means not every BattleMech from the pre-invasion 3050s era is in (yet). They are, in order of tonnage:

• Commando (25t)
• Jenner (35t)
• Raven (35t)
• Cicada (40t)
• Hunchback (50t)
• Centurion (50t)
• Trebuchet (50t)
• Dragon (60t)
• Catapult (65t)
• Jagermech (65t)
• Cataphract (70t)
• Awesome (80t)
• Stalker (85t)
• Atlas (100t)

Each 'Mech will be be available in different variants, which determine what weapon hardpoints it features (see Dev Blog 6 on the MechLab). The full list of variants available hasn't been announced yet, but there will be at least the JR7-D Jenner, HBK-4G Hunchback, CPLT-C1 Catapult, and AS7-D Atlas. The other 11 'Mechs will likely feature the "default" variant (the one statted on the http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page), but we don't have official confirmation yet.

http://mwomercs.com/founders is their Founders Program. Among other benefits, you gain an amount of in-store credit ($40 or $80 worth) and guaranteed access into the latter phase of Closed Beta on August 7th. The Elite and Legendary options get you a cool custom 'Mech skin. This is in no way required, and does not give purchasers an "edge" over people who don't want to buy. The Founders 'Mechs are identical in stats to the JR7-D Jenner, HBK-4G Hunchback, CPLT-C1 Catapult, and AS7-D Atlas available to everyone who doesn't buy a Founders Pack.

For further reading, check out the Dev Blogs, Q&A sessions, and Ask the Devs - Answers!.

• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/13-dev-blog-0-reboot/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/2247-dev-blog-1-community-warfare/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/2916-dev-blog-2-information-warfare/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/3815-dev-blog-3-role-warfare/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/3921-dev-blog-4-role-warfare-cont/
• http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/03/155-dev-blog-5-mech-warfare-part-i
• http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/04/193-dev-blog-6-mechlab

• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/1535-developer-qa-1/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/2596-developer-qa-2-community-warfare/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/3365-developer-qa-3-information-warfare/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/4362-developer-qa-4-role-warfare/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/5618-community-qa-5-mech-warfare/
• http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/04/198-community-qa-6-mechlab

• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/7838-ask-the-devs-1-answer/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/8189-ask-the-devs-2-answers/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/8656-ask-the-devs-3-answers/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/10306-ask-the-devs-4-answers/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/11284-ask-the-devs-5-answers/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/12849-ask-the-devs-6-answers/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/14763-ask-the-devs-7-answers/
• http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/17720-ask-the-devs-8-answers/
• http://mwomercs.com/news/2012/07/321-ask-devs-9-answers

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 12 2012, 07:30 AM

I'll be happy with my Archer or Warhammer or Marauder. None of which are sadly on said list.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 12 2012, 11:36 AM

Because those are the "Harmony Gold will fuck you up something fierce if you use them" Mechs.

Posted by: Jeremiah Kraye Jul 12 2012, 12:50 PM

I just want three things...

A: My Madcat
B: My Bushwaker
C: My Nova

I also want to be able to override the safety overheating feature, but that's just me.

Raven's were one of my favorites for light scout mechs from commander.

Posted by: Bigity Jul 12 2012, 01:02 PM

Damn clan mechs. Hell no!

Jagermech! Or Dragon. Hmm.

Yea all my preferred mechs looks suspiciously like Destroids from Robotech or an Officer Pod

Posted by: CanRay Jul 12 2012, 03:13 PM

Seeing as I've never played before, I'm going to have to try them all to find out which one I like the most.

Likely I'll be playing either an Artillery Unit or a Heavy Mech. I'm the Fifty Cent of FPSes... I'm always getting SHOT!

Posted by: Bigity Jul 12 2012, 03:20 PM

I'm told that currently in the beta, long ranged mechs are kinda screwed as the maps are all smaller areas.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 12 2012, 03:32 PM

Long Ranged Mechs are ALWAYS screwed in Battletech/Mechwarrior.
Especially if they can't boat Lasers or PPC's.

Battletech is sitting in dozends of tons of steel and walking up to somebody else sitting in dozends of tons of steel and looking them square in the eyes while shooting them up and finally punching and kicking the living daylights out of them . .


Clan Stuff will probably come next year or so . .
The Beta starts next month for people that have paid.
And one day in real life is one day in game.
And the Game starts about 0,5 to 1 year before the Clans arrive if i remember correctly.

Posted by: Tanegar Jul 12 2012, 03:43 PM

All of them are back in the tabletop game, albeit with new artwork and sculpts. Just base the models off the new minis rather than the Unseen art, and you're golden. The Archer, Warhammer, and Marauder are among the classics; you can't just leave them out.

Posted by: Jeremiah Kraye Jul 12 2012, 04:07 PM

yep, all of the above. Honestly I just hope you can color your mech how you choose. I was always partial to bannson's raiders in terms of colors.

Posted by: Yerameyahu Jul 12 2012, 04:20 PM

Yuck, it's just PvP deathmatch? At least they promise slavish devotion to aging canon, though.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 12 2012, 04:50 PM

Right now, players are in the Inner Sphere as either mercs, house warriors, or unaffiliated free lancers. They're keeping a 1:1 timeline. 1 day of real time is 1 day of MW:O time. Right now it's July 12, 3049. They're also adhering to established canon very closely, with the exception of one aspect to their Community Warfare pillar. House aligned players can fight for control over border worlds with other factions. They are locking the core and "buffer" worlds (I forget the term they used), so the borders can only shift so far. As the timeline progresses, worlds can shift from core, buffer, and border to any other category in keeping with the BattleTech timeline. So no, the Draconis Combine can't blitz to New Avalon.

Sorry, but the Timber Wolf and Nova won't debut until March of next year at the earliest. Players getting access to Clan tech will most likely take a while longer. The Bushwaker doesn't come out until 3053.

There is an override function... just don't hit it too often


No, they've said there will be other game modes as well. I can't find the link, but I'm pretty sure there were 3 types officially confirmed so far.

As for the unseens, Harmony Gold never actually owned the rights to the images or intellectual property. At best they had the distribution rights for North America. The problem is, while they had no leg to stand on (legally), they did have an army of lawyers to hide behind. Their strategy was basically to be a giant prick of a company and make legal recourse too expensive for whoever they were going after. Which is why, you'll notice, the Microsoft MechWarrior titles had a few of the unseen 'Mechs.

EDIT: Oh, and one last thing worth a mention, they've locked out canon groups as MercCorp (guild) names. A number of players were trying to claim canon Mercenary groups or Clans, but the devs have said no one gets to claim any of those names. They have started considering opening up some of the major Mercenary Companies as joinable factions (Grey Death Legion, Wolf's Dragoons, Northwind Highlanders, etc...) but no official word beyond that.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 12 2012, 04:59 PM

While we're on that note - I want my Phoenix Hawk, Shadowhawk, and Crusader

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 12 2012, 05:08 PM

Yes you can, but the Reseen Models are fucking ugly -.-

Same with these, the Reseen would be targeted first because nobody can bear to look at these for a longer time . .



As for Merc Companies:
Eridanie Light Pony will be there at least . .
I plan on going Lone Wolf.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 12 2012, 05:16 PM

I actually like some of the reseen designs better than the originals (which were just ripped off from Japanese anime anyway). And I always thought the Marauder looked really dumb.

*dives for cover*

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 12 2012, 05:30 PM

You. Will. Die.
Slooowlyyy . .

Posted by: Halinn Jul 12 2012, 05:57 PM

Over the course of your natural lifespan! Muahahaha!

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 12 2012, 05:59 PM

Check out Dev Blog #6 on the MechLab. There will be color customization. They won't be allowing user made skins (at least for a while), since copyright issues crop up and PGI is responsible for all the content in-game.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 12 2012, 06:02 PM

I agree that most of the reseen are fugly. At least in the case of the archer I want the loadout. Same for the Marauder and warhammer.

Posted by: Tanegar Jul 12 2012, 06:09 PM

YMMV. I quite like the Reseen Warhammer.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 12 2012, 06:11 PM

You can get similar, if not identical, loadouts with other 'Mech variants. More than this I am forbidden from saying.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 12 2012, 06:44 PM

Trust me when I say this - The Catapult is NOT the Archer. That 5 tons makes a huge difference.

(Also, the reseen Rifleman is actually pretty decent artwork.)

Posted by: Bigity Jul 12 2012, 06:57 PM

Smithson's Chinese Bandits ho!

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 12 2012, 07:30 PM

Seeing how they will be using a MIX between TABLETOP AND MW4 MECHLAB, there is close to no limit as to what you can actually pack into a Mech.
Especially, seeing how the Canon-Variants will be in. Nothing stopping you from replacing the AC20 on the Hunchback with something more usefull.
Nothing stopping you from replacing the 8 Medium Lasers on the 4P Variant with an ER-PPC or some Large Lasers either.
There is, basically, no role-protection ever in any kind of Mechwarrior/Battletech Game, if you don't have VERY strict restrictions on the MechLab.
And if you do, nobody will pilot anything but certain ultimate Mechs . . And if you don't, nobody will pilot anything but certain ultimate LOADOUTS too.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 12 2012, 09:03 PM

This is true, though PGI is working to lessen this issue. Beyond the restrictions on ability to place what weapons where (hardpoints), there is the experience system which not only rewards familiarity with a particular variant, but requires you to branch out at least a little bit to access the upper tiers of the XP reward tree. (See Dev Blog 4.) There is also the hurdle of actually buying the extra gear to shove into the 'Mech. Based on the http://mwomercs.com/media/video/dPoqjslGcO0, it looks like they'll be sticking to the tabletop's prices. They haven't told us what the final C-Bill earnings per match will be, but I'd wager 300,000 C-Bills for an ER PPC is going to take a while to earn.

There's also the issue of heat, more for energy weapons than ballistics. That ER PPC is 5 more points of heat than the regular PPC (and more than any other weapon). Heat won't just disappear if you've got 15 heatsinks. You'll still take the heat and it'll drop at a rate of X/second depending on how many heatsinks you've got.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 12 2012, 09:08 PM

Wonder how close to the BT Stats they are going to stick in MWO . .
Technically, a Hunchback 4P can fire everything aside from 1Medium Laser and the Small Laser and stay completely cold all the time.
Laser-Gatling.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 12 2012, 10:09 PM

As close as they can. The heatsink deal comes from tabletop being abstractions of 10 second turns, where MW:O is real time. Heatsinks don't negate heat generation, they dissipate it. More heatsinks gives you faster dissipation.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 12 2012, 11:04 PM

The 4P should, in theory, be able to dissipate all heat generated, as long as he does not fire one of the medium lasers . .

Posted by: CanRay Jul 13 2012, 02:42 AM

Well, give this one a shot, see if I like it. At least there'll be folks I know online.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 13 2012, 03:38 AM

Yeah, if the pilot waits 10 seconds between shots, then fires them all again. As I said, the tabletop is an abstraction. I can't recall any previous MW title that gave medium lasers (or any weapon, for that matter) a 10 second recycle time.

Since it's real time, vs. turn based, any 'Mech could theoretically dissipate all the heat it generates so long as doesn't cook off its ammo or melt its reactor. In a real time situation, it's not a question of "can I?" but rather "how long will it take?"

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 13 2012, 11:24 AM

Base should be 10 heat takes 10 seconds to dissipate and a 10 Heat Weapon should take 10 seconds to reload.
Everything else? Go from there. 15 Heat? Takes 15 Seconds to dissipate and 15 seconds to reload.
5 Heat? 5 Seconds to dissipate, 5 second reload cycle.

And each Single Heat-Sink dissipates 1 Heat per Second. Double Heat-Sinks will dissipate 2 Heat per Second.

Sounds easy enough to me somehow . . Yes, this will make for a quite fast paced game, but come on . . this is a shooter basically, not something where you wait minutes to reload . .

Posted by: Tiralee Jul 13 2012, 12:47 PM

I really hope there's environmental considerations as well - ie: lakeside laser gatling cooling, deep-space frybabies, Desert "ballistics or die" loadouts.....

Hrm, yeah, 330k for the tricked out PPC is going to take a loooong while, especially if there's repairs, etc, that need to be performed.
Erm, I'm not expert on Battletech/Mechwarrior Lore - but aren't EPPCs around a little later than '49?
Lostech and all that.

Tir.

God, if only you could incorperate airspace and groundpounder assets.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 13 2012, 01:06 PM

Rumors have it that later on, ground pounders and Aerospace might make an appearance somehow. WOT is doing Battleships and Planes too.

And yes, Ice-Worlds and Desert-Worlds will have an affect on the Heat-Dissipation, that much is clear by now.

Also, think about this:
A good BattleMech can cost about 30 MILLION Bucks.
While a crappy light Mech may cost less than certain weapons alone.

Posted by: KarmaInferno Jul 13 2012, 02:26 PM

I wonder if I can re-create my flame-jacker mech.

Basically a mech outfitted with max speed, max cooling, and a giant bank of flamethrower units capable of skyrocketing a target mech's heat into shutdown.

Land next to enemy 'mech, heat-shutdown enemy 'mech, hey, guys, I got a free 'mech! It was just sitting here!



-k

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 13 2012, 02:49 PM

Should, in theory, work as intended . .
we'll have to see how good the light ones are in dodging fire and how much more heat you can pile upon other mechs via flamers . .

Posted by: almost normal Jul 13 2012, 03:05 PM

Heavy Large Laser.

Posted by: almost normal Jul 13 2012, 03:12 PM

Costs are wonky. An Akuma is around 9 million C-bills. Not bad for a Solid B Assault mech. Put in some pulse lasers and star-league/clan equipment though, and you could easily quadruple that. Odd part is, canon states the Fists, and especially the Snakes, are sitting on LOADS of clan tech, *and*, can produce their own.

In my opinion, The writing and stories of Battletech were great until the old guard of Nystul and co stepped down. They were okay with Randall at the helm, but now, with Herb and Rome? It's horrible. I can't stand it. I haven't even looked at a BT product in 6 years that I thought was worthy of purchase.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 13 2012, 03:25 PM

At game-start, nobody knows of the Clans.
Kurita took the main brunt of the attack.
They may be sitting on loads of the clan-stuff, but seeing how nobody but the clans can actually produce clan level stuff, it's still hellishly rare and expensive.
IS ER-Weaponry and the such are cheaper than clan stuff.

Posted by: almost normal Jul 13 2012, 03:44 PM

Yeah, sorry to kind of threadjack. I'm just not all that excited. Oddly enough, if it wasn't free to play, I'd have pre-ordered the super mega-edition. F2p just sucks though. Look at TF2. Great game. Went free to play. Unplayable now.

Besides, when their solution to the dumbfuck circle of death that every MW multiplayer match turned into, is 'Well, we added buildings!' it leaves me with little faith in their design abilities.

Looking much more forward to the Tactics game.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 13 2012, 04:01 PM

Unless they had a ballistic or missile weapon system. Then you just blew their ammo; and seeing as most IS don't bother casing their ammo (and some loadouts even keep an ammo bank in CT) well... I would say free salvage more like.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 13 2012, 04:08 PM

Multiquote doesn't seem to work

@Stahl- Actually, a full 10 seconds to reload is hellishly slow in a real-time game. Rumors of Aerospace and whatnot are just that, rumors. Aerospace and VTOLs are nothing but grief engines in the Living Legends mod. Most of the people posting on the MW:O forum say they don't want them in the game at all. The prospective Command tree they've given us lets Command focused pilots call in UAV scans and artillery strikes, but nothing player controlled.

@Tiralee- ER PPCs are in the game. Check http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/7838-ask-the-devs-1-answer/ for the list of weapons/equipment that will be in for launch.

@almost normal- Heavy lasers don't exist in 3049. Clan Star Adder developed them in 3059. And their solution to the "circle of death" is far more than just buildings. More than this I am forbidden from saying.

@X-Kalibur- There won't be a salvage mechanic, at least for a while. They've said you will get C-Bill bonuses for doing extra things, like destroying components, but you don't get to loot the other team's 'Mechs.


P.S.
Where in the lore does it say Steiner and Kurita are sitting on loads of clan tech with the ability to produce their own?

Posted by: almost normal Jul 13 2012, 04:50 PM

The whole 'I'm under NDA' doesn't carry much weight with me, so until shown otherwise, I'll assume the problems will remain problems.

The lore question is from various TROs, field manuals, and novels. I used to be a giant fan, the last decade, not so much. Anyway, specifics, the medium pulse laser and streak-6 were all retrogrades from stockpiles of clan tech the Dracs had from beating back the clans.

Posted by: Jeremiah Kraye Jul 13 2012, 06:23 PM

One of my biggest problems I always felt was that they didn't make the weapons for most mechs varied enough at different ranges to make them really seem potent.

One of the biggest things for the table top was that certain weapons were better at certain ranged, the mechwarrior games missed out on a lot of this, while commander did not. By making weapons do less at sub-optimal ranges or be less accurate I feel like they can make the player either be super specialized (catapult) or more varied (hunchback is a prime example) to meet the variety of roles, terrains and purposes.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 13 2012, 07:49 PM

What do you mean?

Posted by: almost normal Jul 13 2012, 09:21 PM

Minimum ranges for LRMs against their ability to indirect fire. PPCs and Gauss Rifles with minimum range (Which, btw, dilutes the potency of large-bore autocannons).

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 13 2012, 09:46 PM

How so?
IN BT, AC2 and AC5 have Minimum Ranges and the AC10 and 20 don't.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 13 2012, 10:37 PM

The autocannons also make absolutely no fucking sense in regards to physics.

The AC2 and 5 should have LESS range than AC10 and 20.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 13 2012, 10:39 PM

Don't you dare bring physics into a game about hugw stompy robots! ò,Ó;,

We don't try to bring physics into a discussion about magic either, usually . .

Posted by: Tanegar Jul 14 2012, 01:26 AM

Why? Have you seen any of the artwork for the AC/20? It redefines the term "snub-nosed." The thing barely has a barrel; that plus the giant shell mean it shouldn't have a long range.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 14 2012, 01:34 AM

By that logic, a .223 Remington should have less range than a .45 ACP.

My big gripe with autocannons is that they have no standard calibers, only "classifications."

Posted by: CanRay Jul 14 2012, 01:45 AM

"I knew she was trouble the moment she pointed her pair of snub nosed .38s at me. The revolver in her hand was also a hint, but far more subtle."

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 14 2012, 02:05 AM

You should check out artillery some time. Because realistically a .223 is a larger round than a .45. Try firing the .223 from a pistol and let me know after your wrist heals.

You are right to some extent on the classifications which only further muddies the water - some AC20s are considered a single large shell, while others are described as firing 2 to 4 cannons simultaneously. That would mean in some cases it is firing 4 AC5s which makes even LESS sense on their ranges.

Posted by: CanRay Jul 14 2012, 05:37 AM

Well, smaller diameter, but a longer warhead, and a lot more charge behind it.

Posted by: Gamer6432 Jul 14 2012, 06:11 AM

I've fired a .223 from a pistol. It's not that bad. But it being a larger cartridge (the round itself is actually smaller) was my point.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 14 2012, 06:30 AM

The main problem is that a Hex is given a listed value of 100 meters. Consider the size and range of a modern day MBT main gun, it's effective range is over a mile and would be closest in relation to an AC2. Then you start getting into naval guns which would be more in line with an AC5 or 10 and the effective ranges are even greater. Now, from a game development standpoint I understand where they are coming from, but aside from completely ignoring physics almost no one bothers with ACs because the ammo is a liability in 3 fashions (count, heat related explosions, critical related explosions). I mean, hell, machine guns are more likely to get YOU killed than the people you are shooting at. All of a sudden 200 rounds of ammo cook off somewhere (it really doesn't matter where) and you're out. I'm a huge fan of the Ultra ACs, LBX, and RACs but when it comes down to it, you're generally better with a laser boat

Although, speaking of machineguns in Mechwarrior.... I promise you laughs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhOqr0-Z44E

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 14 2012, 10:04 AM

correction, it is worse actually, seeing how a hex has a diameter of 30m from tip to tip, not even from side to side.

and don' you hate on MG's. if they implement a kind of crit hit system, MG's will be fearsome boating.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 15 2012, 02:39 AM

Nah, just go legging with an LBX 10.

Posted by: almost normal Jul 16 2012, 08:13 PM

It's 30 meters.

Posted by: JCATL Jul 20 2012, 01:54 PM

There is a huge uproar on the forums there about just this subject right now. heh.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 20 2012, 03:36 PM

There always is . .
Some Servers running MWLL actually ban people who leg . .

Posted by: Tanegar Jul 20 2012, 04:09 PM

Qu'est-ce que c'est "legging?"

Posted by: almost normal Jul 20 2012, 04:24 PM

In Battletech, Legs are pretty hard to hit, (You can only hit one leg on a 5, and the other on a 9) and they're very well armored. On top of that, a Mech can withstand the destruction of a leg and still stand, alternatively, it can lay on the ground prone and fire most of it's weaponry. In online shooters, Mech destruction results from a single leg loss, and only takes 'Aiming low' to accomplish.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 20 2012, 05:06 PM

ENGLISH MOFO! YOU SPEAK IT!

Legging is shooting out the legs from under the Mech you are targeting.
People who complain about it usually go and strip the Legs of Armor to free up weight for other stuff and then complain about other people using the Legs as preferred target exactly because they are usually weaker than they should be . . They complain about this being unfair behaviour, targeting, you guessed it, probably safe made weak spots in their Armor for a quick Kill. They thus deride it as being a noobish tactic.
Even though the Legs usually are the fastest moving pieces on a Mech and thus, usually, should be the hardest to hit. But this, sadly, is only true if the Hit-Boxes are only on the Model of the Leg, and not anything more than that. Then legs can, reliably, only be hit from directly in front or directly behind, because they won't be moving as much relatively to your crosshair and line of fire.
MWLL has it like this, which means, usually, shooting at the Legs of a fast moving Mech usually means you miss 95% of your shots. And the other 5% usually don't all hit the one leg you were aiming for, but also the other leg behind the one close to you, simply because of how the movement makes the legs appear.

Also, a destroyed leg in MW4 slowed every Mech down to a crawl, which made it a good way to annoy Heavy and Assault brawlers, which are slow to begin with and have to get into range to effectively fight back . .

In MWLL, Legging became a bit meaner still, because shooting out a Leg from a Mech did not just topple the Mech but let it lie on the ground and usually in a prone position from which it could only fire in a very restricted arc, if at all . . so a sitting duck target for Tanks and Power-Armor Infantry. And it did not allow the pilot to respawn near his home base to buy another asset with which to wage war again.

This is, actually, the closest thing you will EVER see to the CBT Board Game Rules in ANY Video-Game. Only in MW2 Mercs, i think, you could, with some Luck, remain standing with just one Leg. But not move anymore either . .

Posted by: Jeremiah Kraye Jul 20 2012, 05:16 PM

Yeah I was a big fan of hobbling big mechs, that or focusing the cockpit. Only took 1 critical hit to almost obliterate a cockpit and if you were nova'ing a full barrage of lazers at close range, you could pump out a lot of shots. Got high on energy? Screw it, overload the system and keep firing for a couple more seconds.

I was a huge fan of pushing the limits of my mech designs in previous MW games, especially commander.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 20 2012, 05:18 PM

Hobbling big Mechs and hitting their weak sauce rear Armor is all a Scout-Mech can hope to do.
If they get the relativ sizes right, at close Range a small light Mech simply has not enough of a firing Arc upwards to hit anything above the Hips and maybe Belly of a tall heavy or assault Mech.

As for the Customizing:
It's going to be a MIX between the MW4Mercs and CBT Board Game Rules.
There will be Variants of the Mechs. The CANON Variants to boot it seems.
Those can be modified limited to what their role usually is.
You can't mod an Energy-Boat into anything else but an Energy-Boat with a different Load-Out.
You can't mod an walking Cannon into anything that does not use any number of different Cannons.
You can't mod an Missle-Carrier into anything but another Missle-Carrier.
You can only swap out the Model of the installed Weapons, but not their Kind.
And you can change the Ammount and Allocation of Armor and Ammo. And some other Equipment.

Posted by: Jeremiah Kraye Jul 20 2012, 05:24 PM

That seems exceptionally boring when you think that most mercaries utilized their own custom load-outs. Additionally many of the varients were insultingly bad in my opinion, usually based off either the contract limitations between a group and the manufacturer or things that the group had quantity of.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 20 2012, 05:35 PM

But that's the charm of the Canon Variants. Else, why have different Mechs at all?
You could just say:"It's a 65t Mech with optimal Loadout." And everybody has the same.
Maybe there's the 65t optimal Loadout for Ballistics, for Energy, for Missles. But not even a Mix between those.

Look at the Hunchback. The HBK-4G is the Base Variant with the AC20. It's a devastatingly stupidly bad Weapon. And it comes with only enough Armor for about 12 shots or so i think. Armor which can explode and destroy the entire Mech in one go too. And as a Backup? Only 2 Medium Lasers and one Small Laser. And not even enough Heat-Sinks to actually do an Alpha-Strike without becoming an immobile Target or a shut down immobile Target or, worst of all, an Ammo-Explosion.
It is specialized to be a surprise in tight Circumstances like a City with ample ECM going on to hide it untill it steps out from behind a Building and blasts something else at really close Range with the biggest Projectile you can safely shoot from anything below a dedicated Artillery Piece.

Now comes the Hunchback HBK-4P. Swayback Variant. You have now 8 Medium Lasers and the Small Laser. And enough Heatsinks to fire 7 of the Medium Lasers continually without ANY kind of Heat Buildup. AND you have MORE ARMOR. AND NO EXPLODEY AMMO. And no Ammo-Shortage either. And you have more Crit-Spaces padded with Stuff that won't instantly hurt you too much to continue Fighting when hit.
It's flat out BETTER. But it's not meant for close Combat Surprise Attacks. This one is an open Field Brawler and Guerilla Mech, because it does not need much in Maintenance and Ammo.


Better Example:
Catapult. 2xLRM15, 3 Medium Lasers. Jumpjets. Paper thin Armor for it's Weight, but quite a Wallop at extreme Ranges and capable of standing behind something and delivering indirect Bombardement-Type Fire.

Now the KURITA Catapult. Or Katapult.
It gets rid of the Ammo and the Missle-Launchers and replaces these with some Heat-Sinks, Armor and big Energy-Weapons. Voila, another Guerilla Variant open Field Brawler right there, with practically no Work on designing another Mech for that, when you have a good Base-Chassis.

Posted by: almost normal Jul 20 2012, 05:43 PM

[citation needed]

Seriously, your stereotyping of the opposition kind of sucks man.

Posted by: Jeremiah Kraye Jul 20 2012, 05:44 PM

Yeah but here's my problem with it... Assuming battle field conditions, varients wouldn't exist outside of fresh off the factory. To me the core of mech-warfare has always been the fact that in both stories and in games your mechs are sometimes cobbled together from the shit you salvage. Without the ability to customize down to that depth a lot of the feel of the game is lost for me anyways.

Then again I was always a merc and assume that the longer a war goes on the less chance of finding a standard varient mech on the battlefield exists. The fact that any mech could be retrifitted as long as it had the load-out slots and required infrastructure was what was cool for me anyways.

Posted by: almost normal Jul 20 2012, 05:52 PM

Come on now, you're just getting opinionated without substance, on top of making shit up. An Alpha-strike from the HB will put out 14 heat, and it's got 13 heat sinks. Even if you ran, you're not hitting any modifier to movement, nevermind this 'immobile target' nonsense. If you want a laser boat, the 5/8/5 Komodo blows the Hunchback out of the water. If you want an old standby medium mech to open up a tin-can, you can do a lot worse then the Hunchback.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 20 2012, 05:52 PM

MOST of the Canon-Variants exist, because the Base-Variants could not be produced any longer due to the Los-Tech Phenomenon.
Endo-Steel Chassis, Extra-Light Engine, ER-Weapons, LB-X and Ultra-Auto-Cannons, Ferro-Fibrit-Armor, Double-Heat-Sinks, Streak-Missles, NARC, guided LRM's and many other Things were simply LOST to War. But the Plans to build the Mechs itself, in many cases, did not get lost.
So they needed to rebuild them with what was able to be produced. So they had to make certain Cuts. For example, swapping out the Extra-Light engine. This frees up Space, but takes up 50% more Weight for the Engine alone. Which is, usually, about 20-40% of a Mechs total Weight.
This means some Weapons have to go and maybe some Armor, to get it to move at all. And with some of the Weapons that needed to go, some Ammo and some Heatsinks could be left out to make it cheaper and easier and thus faster to build too.

And then there are, of course, cases where replacement Weapons for example simply were not Available. So, out with the Good Old, in with the Bad New. For example, replacing PPC's with AC10's in the Case of Marik for example, so as not to lose any FirePower. Or replacing an AC10 with a Large-Laser to save Ammo at a 20% Loss of Firepower from that Weapon.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 21 2012, 05:33 PM

Slightly untrue, you can fire 1 arm while prone (as the other is used to prop yourself up) if prone and no torso mounted weapons. In MW4 taking out a leg simply hobbled a mech really badly. What made the LBX broken was when you'd start going internal with it. You basically would roll so many chances for a critical that you were almost guaranteed to cause some major structural damage. If not outright scrapping it if you rolled for snake eyes for a CT crit.

Also, Stahl, with it being 3049 I'm sure it won't be long before we start seeing Endo steel, XL engines, ER lasers, pulse lasers, LB-X and Ultra ACs, etc.


As an aside, from a tabletop perspective, has anyone ever tried rear mounting their LRMs for laughs? You can start running away from the opposition and pepper them liberally. Admittedly it only works the first couple of times before everyone figures it out.

Posted by: Bigity Jul 21 2012, 05:39 PM

Hah, not with LRMs but I did have a flamer back there, just to do insult to out of commission mechs as I passed.

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 21 2012, 06:11 PM

@X-Kalibur:
Look at the Stalker.
The CANON Variant has the LRM's in the Arms with the M-Lasers and can flip these to the Rear.
So yes, you can, with that Mech, get 2xLRM10 and 4xM-Laser into your rear Firing Arc.
Yes, that's more Firepower than most Heavy Mechs have at all, why?

I usually change that to swap the SRM's and the LRM's positions so i can have 4xM-Laser and 2xSRM6 in the Arm-Flip on the STK-5M.


Also, one of the MadCat Variants has 2xSRM6 rear mounted. Several Mechs have one or more small or medium Lasers rear mounted.
I think there is one Mech with an AC10 rear-mounted, but i am not sure about that right now . .


Same Problem as with the LB-X goes for SRM Fire too.
Once Armor is gone in a Location, you are more or less guaranteed Crits there . . But that's what these ARE THERE FOR.
And to abuse the TAC Rule, that lets you CRIT THROUG H ARMOR. So yes, a completely clean Mech, can, on a REALLY lucky roll, be destroyed by a single LB-X-Pellet . .

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 21 2012, 07:20 PM

Worse than that is the greatly increased chance for that head hit. Even if 1 damage to the location isn't gonna crack it... you still forced a consciousness roll. Sure, they have a small chance to fail that initial 3... then 5, etc. I would imagine nothing would piss someone off more than getting nailed by LB-Xs and getting knocked out by the shot pellets.

Is the rule from TAC the "floating critical" rule? Where rolling a 2 means you roll for crit and then roll for location rather than JUST CT crit?

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 21 2012, 07:25 PM

Might be the floating Crit, yes.
I have seen a floating crit hit the COCKPIT Location.
LB-X10, ONE pellet hit.
Snake-Eyes. Location: 12. Crit-Roll: 8, so exactly one crit. Location: 12. Cockpit.
Yes, a Centurion with an LB-X10 took out an Awesome in one, single, awesome shot.

Posted by: CanRay Jul 21 2012, 08:05 PM

Clean out the cockpit, and you got a shiny new Mech!

Posted by: Stahlseele Jul 21 2012, 08:07 PM

Basically, Yeah.
That was one of those WTF Moments where i got my MWO Signature from . .

'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'

Posted by: almost normal Jul 23 2012, 03:08 AM

The Grand Crusader originally mounted twin rear LRM 20s.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/22/GrandCrusader.jpg

Those two big smoke stacks are the LRM tubes. No, I'm not joking.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 23 2012, 04:12 AM

Ugh, I forgot about the Grand Dragon. I'm more familiar with 3029 models.