Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: silva Oct 29 2011, 11:53 PM

Hi folks, who likes Battletech around here ? I m just now coming back to it from a looong hiatus (actually, the last time I played it I had 15 years old... today im 32 xD ).

Anyway, I have the old 3rd edition box set with its default "unseen" minis, plus the first introductory box set (with the ugly Catapult on the cover) with its bunch of ugly plastic minis. Plus, I managed to get some cool metal minis that I still have here. So, right now I have 2 questions..

1) For someone who already owns the first intro box set, is it worth to get the new one (when it gets re-printed, of course) ?

2) in the old days I only played 1-on-1 with my friends, never tried a campaign. What campaign systems are available? What do you reccomend? I would prefer one that combines simplicity with flavor, if possible. (I see there is this "warchest" system, that looks really simple, and also an old system from the mercenaries handbook that seems REALLY complex).

Thanks!

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 30 2011, 12:14 AM

Unseen Miniatures . . dude, you could make good money with those . .
Some of those go for 50 Bucks per piece . .
I'd recommend going to the classicbattletech boards.
I like me some battletech, but i don't know much about it i am afraid <.<

Here, this may be a starting point for you:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7783.0.html

Posted by: Tanegar Oct 30 2011, 02:37 AM

Don't listen to Stahlseele, Unseen minis are utterly and completely worthless. Out of the goodness of my heart, however, I will gladly take them off your hands, particularly any Warhammer or LAM minis you happen to have.

I don't know what's in the original boxed set, but the 25th Anniversary box is sweet. Two map boards, quick start rules, a ton of background material, 24 (admittedly fairly ugly) plastic minis, and two very nice high-impact polystyrene (very high-quality, very detailed plastic) minis, one a Thor Prime and the other a Loki Prime.

Campaign systems are, I believe, introduced in the expansion rulebooks Tactical Operations (planetary-scale campaigns), Strategic Operations (system-scale campaigns), and the forthcoming(?) Interstellar Operations (self-explanatory). I believe Strategic Operations also includes rules for space combat.

Posted by: Stahlseele Oct 30 2011, 09:47 AM

Oh, by the way, don't expect the hammer hands mech on the cover of the box set to be actually included IN the box set.
Or rules for the Thor and the Loki. Or record sheets for any of those three.

Posted by: Tanegar Oct 30 2011, 03:40 PM

It certainly does include record sheets, not only for the Thor Prime and Loki Prime, but also for Loki-A and Thor-A variants. They're in the very back of the record-sheet booklet. Although it's true that the box doesn't have rules for advanced weapon systems like those used by the Clan 'Mechs, in practice the only ones that really need those rules are the Loki Prime's A-pods and the Thor-A's Gauss rifle. Everything else can be treated like a standard weapon with the heat and range brackets given on the record sheets. Hell, you don't even need the Gauss rifle's special rules unless it or its ammo take a critical hit.

It is also true that the Warhammer on the front of the box is not in the box. An oversight, IMO. Nevertheless, at US$49.99, it's a steal.

I also neglected to mention one of the core rulebooks, Tech Manual, which contains the current construction rules for all units.

Posted by: silva Nov 2 2011, 12:39 AM

Thanks for the replies, folks.

Now, a question that can make some fans pull their hair out: What house rules do you guys use for speeding up play ? *raises shied* xD

I was looking in the "Quickstrike" rules, and thought about adopting some of it for BT. Eg:

- the movement rules, where: 1) the player moves all his mechs before the other player phase, and 2) you just spend move pts for moving to other hexes (change in direction doesnt spend move pts);
- doubling damage from all weapons;
- assuming a unique, fixed, range modifiers for all weapons;

what do you guys think ?

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 2 2011, 01:29 AM

My group doesn't really use any house rules. But then, the two group organizers are demo agents for Catalyst. We used the BattleForce rules once, which did make the game go a lot faster, but the general consensus was that we all preferred the full-blown BattleTech rules.

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 2 2011, 01:11 PM

really one of the best thing about B tech is does not cost much to make an army to play (4 mechs a side). Rules are very good for a fast game set up they way they are right now around 2 hours for a game. they have a great story line to play all kinds of campaigns. we have a group in around KC MO who play all the time and we use base rules. like anything there a few rules i do not like but for the most part they flow well.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 2 2011, 04:56 PM

Why do you feel the need for house-rules?
OK, i can see movement being easier when turning does not take up MP.
WHY would you double all weapons damage? that'd make for a ridiculous lethal game that consists mostly of one shot kills . .
And how would you assume the unique fixed range modifier? That will throw the complete balance out of the window.

Posted by: silva Nov 2 2011, 09:05 PM

Dont get me wrong, I love the game. And would play with all rules - basic and advanced - if I could. But right now Im in a group (3 people, all novice in the game) that feel the game is too slow, and have some clunky parts that could be striped without too much prejudice to the experience, with the benefit of speeding up things to allow our 3 hours evening game to develop much further than it could with all the default rules in place. The group is composed of tactic-strategy freaks (they finish videogames like Jagged Alliance 2, UFO, Front Mission, Hearts of Iron 2, Victoria, Alpha Centauri, etc. with eyes blinded and the tied hands, and they used to play risk, supremacy and other boardgames 8 hours straight! xD), so they love tactics but definitely dont like spending much time looking at a table for a dozen modifiers, then making half-dozen rolls to determine if a shot hit or not, etc.

You see, one interesting argument they made was: the fact that the weapons damage are so low, mixed with the rolls to calculate hit location being so random, makes the game too much dependent on a succession of luck/chance rolls. Maybe if the weapons damage were higher, the game would be less dependent on chance, and more on tactics, with the added side-effects of: 1) increasing the usefulness of light mechs - the heavier punch mixed with its natural high speed would make em really scary; 2) speeging up play - as the the "onion skinning" combat, where you must connect a dozen punches to incapacitate an opponent, would give place to "knock down" style combat, where each punch landed can be fatal.

Of course, with those changes in place, you stray so much from the original game´s experience that I dont know if you can call that Battletech anymore. But hey, if its the only way to make my group play it..

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 2 2011, 11:22 PM

I think you're exaggerating the complexity of the game. There aren't "a dozen modifiers," there are four: attacker's movement, target's movement, range, and LOS. Once you've played a few sessions, you can largely dispense with the tables, as adding up the to-hit number becomes second nature.

I strongly recommend you play at least the first half-dozen games RAW, then see how your group feels.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Nov 2 2011, 11:30 PM

I have to wholeheartedly agree with this. I've played with young children that can manage it just fine. Stick them in 3025 mechs as well, make them learn about heat management.

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 2 2011, 11:32 PM

Seconded.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 3 2011, 09:50 AM

25 Mechs are the Salt and Pepper of the Game.

Posted by: silva Nov 5 2011, 01:11 AM

Yeah, era 3025 is the best for me.


By thw way, has someone seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYh-BAl-DeE&feature=player_embedded and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B76_nAMKuWA&feature=player_embedded#!?

makes the LRM 20 really scary.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 5 2011, 12:03 PM

No, i really had not known about that before o.o
as for LRM's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjzW6JV80bI
MWLL. 4x20LRM in one Mech.
Yes, you will be eating those 80 LRM's shortly . .

Posted by: Grinder Nov 5 2011, 12:50 PM

So true.

Posted by: blackhawk1w Nov 6 2011, 07:19 PM

LRM get worst when you add in thunder rounds and swarms with Art systems

Posted by: silva Nov 8 2011, 11:12 PM

Setting-wise, my interest stop at the Clans invasion. I mean, I actually LIKE the Clans as a very interesting and exotic foe. But I dont like them being meshed to the setting and playable like just another faction.

Now, what I really dont like at all is the post-Clans metaplot, with the jihad and all that sh*t. Come on, the tech level by this time surpassed the Star League golden age! Whats the fun in Battletech if the tech level reaches a Golden Age !? For me, the more exciting aspect of BT setting is its feudal post-apocalyptic atmosphere!

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 9 2011, 12:52 AM

I feel like the increased lethality of the Clan Invasion and beyond actually makes the game less tactical. When one 'Mech can quickly and easily kill or incapacitate another, things like tactical coordination become less important. The Succession Wars is BattleTech the way it's meant to be, IMO.

Posted by: silva Nov 9 2011, 02:48 AM

What bothers me more is seeing that, from Clan invasion and beyond, every mech can fill various niches alone - you have super fast heavies, super powerful lights, super all-ranges mechs, super armored and gadgeted (active probes, ECMs, TAGs, Narc beacons, etc) everything else, etc. Its a powergamer paradise.

In contrast, the 3025 era has mechs with proper niches - mech X can excel in role Y, but will be vulnerable for all else. I love that.

By the way, do you guys think the TRO 2750 (star league tech and mechs) could unbalance too much the 3025 game ?

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 9 2011, 11:26 AM

Seeing how Star League Tech is basically Clan Tech, it'd be pretty much about the same i think . .

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 9 2011, 02:27 PM

No, the Clans advanced quite a bit beyond what the Star League had. Remember, they started with a Star League tech base and built on it, while the Successor States started with a Star League tech base and lost much of it. A Star League-era 'Mech appearing in a late-Succession Wars game would be noticeably more powerful than its "modern" counterparts, depending on exactly what it was equipped with, but I don't think it would unbalance the game necessarily. If one side was equipped exclusively with 2750-era 'Mechs and the other with 3025-era 'Mechs, that could be unbalancing.

Posted by: Stahlseele Nov 9 2011, 08:02 PM

Star League had ER Energy Weapons, Double heatsinks and Gauss-Rifles.
Also, Ultra AC's and special Ammo for normal AC's i think. Maybe LB-X too.
I think aside from XL-Engine, Ferro-Armor and Endo Steel, they had everything you'd expect in a front line clan omni mech.

Posted by: X-Kalibur Nov 9 2011, 09:04 PM

Except that clanner weapons generally weigh less, shoot further, and do more damage and build up less heat. SL era mechs are about on par with 3050 mechs, which are still inferior to clan tech.

Posted by: Tanegar Nov 13 2011, 09:32 PM

Star League ER energy weapons, et al., are not the same as Clan ER energy weapons, et al. The Star League stuff is what the Inner Sphere forces rediscovered and started fielding late in the Invasion and, as X-Kalibur pointed out, still inferior to what the Clans had at the time.

Posted by: silva Nov 13 2011, 10:40 PM

Also, I think the mechs presented in the Technical Readout 2750 (Hussar, Champion, Black Knight, Longbow, etc) are not totaly equipped with star league tech - each one has just one or two new techs.

Contrast this with the clan mechs (even those from 3050), which have each one a whole lot of new techs (if not all of it when possible - ferro-fibrous armor, double heat-sinks, ER lasers and PPCs, CASEs, LB-Xs cannons, etc).