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Dumpshock Forums _ General Gaming _ Stand up for your Tabletop RPG

Posted by: Dustbin1_UK Jun 30 2004, 10:41 PM

Well come on guys lets have it. GURPS, D20 system, Shadowrun System or any others...

Who thinks what is best and why.

(though I do understand this is going to be an interesting argument due to where we are)

Posted by: Adam Jun 30 2004, 11:19 PM

Whichever one serves the needs of the campaign and the group most appropriately.

Bam, thread over.

Posted by: MooCow Jul 1 2004, 12:37 AM

Bad Adam! What have we told you about using logic on this forum?

*MooCow gets out the rolled up newspaper*

Posted by: paul_HArkonen Jul 1 2004, 01:21 AM

You're really asking for the flames aren't you i mean come on we all know which one is the best and will flame others merciliously (poor spelling) to prove it.

Posted by: TinkerGnome Jul 1 2004, 02:52 AM

The real question is what do you mean by "best"?

If it's best background, theme, and metaplot, it's probably SR.

HERO 5e fits into a lot of "best" categories as well. I mean, any rule book that gives an example for quite literally everything is worth using.

Posted by: Misfit Toy Jul 1 2004, 04:52 AM

My personal favorites, though the answers vary with my mood...

Favorite Overall Concept: Changeling: the Dreaming
Favorite Overall Theme: Delta Green
Favorite Overall Rules: World of Darkness
Favorite Overall Gameplay: Shadowrun
Favorite Magic System: Toss up between Ars Magica and Mage, though Shadowrun is the best in a game that wasn't focused entirely on magic
Favorrite Overall Story and Background: Shadowrun
Favorite Set of "Simple" Rules: Tri-Stat
Favorite Set of "Not-So-Simple" Rules: Shadowrun

Somewhat biased, obviously, but I tried to be impartial.

Posted by: shadd4d Jul 1 2004, 07:41 AM

Savage Worlds, which I run at the moment, is pretty tight as a rules system. I know of people trying to do a SR (fan) conversion at the moment. Based on the Great Rail Wars table top system. They just released Weird Wars: Vietnam under the title: Tour of Darkness. Decent rules; you really have to think tactically. It a toolkit game system that will also offer different settings, such as Weird Wars, Deadlands, Pirates, mutated poo, etc. Interesting and the game runs like its tagline: Fast, Furious, Fun.

Shadowrun is a great game, but to be honest, the rules are tied into the setting. The metaplot is great, by and large, while you can make any type of character with respects to the game environment in Shadowrun.

Don

Posted by: Dustbin1_UK Jul 1 2004, 08:31 AM

OK then the answers have been interesting so far. Lets define things a bit:

Best combat system
Best Magic System
Most customizable (from GM's point of view)
Best Story Line
Character creation
Ongoing Character Development
Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up)
Any other reason why one system beats another.

Also lets supply reasons to back up your answers.

Posted by: MooCow Jul 1 2004, 01:12 PM

QUOTE

Best combat system

Fuzzy Heroes.

QUOTE

Best Magic System

I would say Shadowrun. Mage is a close second, but while it's nebulous rules system is it's greatest asset, it's also it's greatest hinderance.

QUOTE

Most customizable (from GM's point of view)

I'm gonna go with World of Darkness on this one.

QUOTE

Best Story Line

Hmmm..... I'm going to go with Trinity on this one. It kinda flopped, but I really liked the storyline.

QUOTE

Character creation

Either Shadowrun or WoD.

QUOTE

Ongoing Character Development

Ummm.... geez, I don't know. I don't want to say SR or WoD again.

QUOTE

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up)

D&D. There are a few things that are a bit hard to wrap your head around, but in general the rigidity of the system is helpful to first time Roleplayers. I used to always tell new roleplayers interested in my WoD and SR games to go talk to the D&D GM first, because it was easier for new players.

QUOTE

Any other reason why one system beats another.

Battle Cattle. Cybernetic cows. Nuff' said.

Posted by: Phaeton Jul 1 2004, 01:17 PM

What's Fuzzy Heroes?

Posted by: Dustbin1_UK Jul 1 2004, 01:26 PM

http://theminiaturespage.com/rules/mis/fuzzy.html

Posted by: MooCow Jul 1 2004, 01:40 PM

QUOTE

What's Fuzzy Heroes?

As the link Dubstbin provided indicates, it's a game played using stuffed animals. You grab a stuffed animal. All it's characteristics are based on the physical aspects of the toy.

It's a funny game. Nothing like a bunch of drunk gamers sitting around a comic shop arguing over the stats of a teddy bear.

Posted by: Dustbin1_UK Jul 1 2004, 01:47 PM

Seen it on the self in the store but never picked it up. Might do so now. It looks good. I wanna be a cyber Punk Bunny!!!

Posted by: MooCow Jul 1 2004, 02:17 PM

Keep in mind that in order to play a cyber punk bunny you have to have a cyber punk bunny stuffed animal.

Posted by: Dustbin1_UK Jul 1 2004, 02:21 PM

Oh I seeeeeeeeeee! You use your actual stuffed toys to play!

That is cool! My six-month-old baby is basically in a good position to take over the world!!!

Posted by: MooCow Jul 1 2004, 02:48 PM

Exactly!

It makes a great game to play when you've been drinking. It's also a great "Baby's First RPG" game.

Another neat one is "Clay Fighters" or something like that. You create some kind of creature out of clay, then the GM determins it's attributes based on what it looks like. There are guidlines to help the GM make the determination. Fun game.

Posted by: Dustbin1_UK Jul 1 2004, 03:01 PM

Did that get turned into a computer game?

Posted by: shadd4d Jul 1 2004, 03:27 PM

QUOTE

Best combat system

Savage Worlds: My opinions, based on 1) GMing it at the time, 2) having been at a con game with the creator (Shane Hensley) and seen 1) what I'm doing isn't wrong, 2) how to get the most (not munchkin) funwise and playingwise out of the system. It also won the Origin's award for people's choice. It's a real tactical fight, if you are a legendary character (80+ xp, multiple adv, spells, etc) you still have to think it all out and maybe even run to make it through. Really flat power curve. Lots of built in room for creativity, intimidating opponents, and basically something different than "I stand here, hit, get hit, repeat."

QUOTE

Best Magic System

Shadowrun. SW is good but too generic, L5R is too many books, D&D just ticks me off. Mage is good, but tends to suffer when you outthink your limitations.

QUOTE

Most customizable (from GM's point of view)

2nd on WoD

QUOTE

[*]Best Story Line

Actually, I'll go odball and say L5R. Lots of CCG influence, but the storyline goes on. And on, and on and on. I like it.

QUOTE

Character creation

There are some good ones. Savage Worlds is fast (15 minutes or so/or maybe 30-45 minutes-1 hour for a group of 9). WoD is also pretty fast. Most others take a while. D&D isn't too slow either, if that's your bag.

QUOTE

Ongoing Character Development

Shadowrun lets you see long term change. L5R does too, just differently, same for SW. Basically, any and every game has to show this, or it's just back to abstract board games people. But Shadowrun does it 1) more elegantly, 2) more tangibly IMHO, 3) offers a lot of possibilities no matter what character or type of character or even subtype of character you play.

QUOTE

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up)

WoD is the idiot's RPG from this standpoint. Not to say that's bad, but it's probably the easiest to pick-up tying with D&D just for simplest mechanics. SW is quick, but decently fast to pick up (snipers at a con-game learning the mods for headshots in about 5 minutes).

QUOTE

Any other reason why one system beats another

For me, it's all about mood. Shadowrun is a game I can come back to. Buckets of dice are also nice, especially if you are plagued with poor dice luck. For its conception, SW is nice but really tied to the short campaign/med. campaign mentality. Not surprising considering that's the flavour of the designer. It's good if you want to run a game under a semester or just a 6/8 month game. WoD is ease but dice are wonky, which isn't all that reflected. D&D, while good for some things, just takes too long (in a fight, for instance) and breeds the hack/slash mentality. It just happens to be some people's bag.

Based on the criteria, but I am a bit biased.

Don

Posted by: MooCow Jul 1 2004, 03:43 PM

QUOTE

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up)

WoD is the idiot's RPG from this standpoint

Well, I disagree with that. (Not in any kind of a "You're an idiot" flame-like way though)

I think that WoD still has too much customization for new role players. We're all used to it, but the idea that /you/ decide what kind of attributes, skills, etc is a pretty big jump for people who have never played any game before.

Posted by: shadd4d Jul 1 2004, 04:34 PM

It wasn't meant as a flame bait (must learn word choice again), just an illustration of how easy it is to fill in dots. Getting to know what to do is easy, plus the system can actually be quite elegant with trait + attr = dice pool. Game mechanics like that are usually a snap; the burden is on the GM to remember what goes together.

Character making is a bit customization, but once you've gotten the 7/5/3, 14/10/5, 5 or 7, plus that, add that, 15 freebie points, and you're done, it's a snap to make characters. For newbies....it might be a bit, especially if they're coming from D&D with random attribute assignments (one thing I will always loath in RPGs).

For newbies, then yes, you are correct. For experienced...simple concepts really. WoD is really rules light to a large extent.

Don

Posted by: Madda_Gaska Jul 1 2004, 05:12 PM

Personal preference from most standpoints is: WoD LARP rules.
Really quick to teach new players, you can 'roll up' NPCs in no time, and anyone is vulnerable to anyone else. Just because they're human and you're an elder, they could get a lucky hit on you if you're going toe to toe (or shooting).
Oh, and they have Lasombra... and Tremere.

SR I like for many reasons (though the original thing that attracted me to it was the matrix/decking aspect).

As for most in-depth background, Harn wins out. No real challenge. Many kingdoms fully mapped out (Ordnance Survey detail level), main crops of areas, weather, cultures, where to find different herbs, etc, etc, etc.

Posted by: MooCow Jul 1 2004, 05:51 PM

QUOTE

It wasn't meant as a flame bait (must learn word choice again)

Hrm.... didn't mean to insinuate you were, just to clarify that I wasn't either. Well hey, now that we've decided we're nice people.....

Posted by: Beast of Revolutions Jul 3 2004, 02:38 AM

Call of Cthulhu and Paranoia get the rewards for best role-playing. Insanity, paranoia, and scapegoating, oh yes!

Posted by: Panzergeist Jul 4 2004, 02:54 AM

Better yet, combine the two. Knowledge of the Necronomicon is above your security clearance, citizen! Zap zap!

Posted by: Beast of Revolutions Jul 4 2004, 08:00 AM

Beware the right angles! Oh my god, your gun has right angles! You must be some kind of demon-communist! Zap zap!

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Jul 4 2004, 03:55 PM

QUOTE (MooCow)

QUOTE

What's Fuzzy Heroes?

http://www.buildabear.com/?cps=www.buildabear.com&cache=www.buildabear.com could lead to power gameing.

Posted by: Hida Tsuzua Jul 4 2004, 04:07 PM

First Edition Legend of the Five Rings holds a place in my heart as a great RPG. Like all RPGs it has its flaws (unbalanced schools, initiative, etc), but the mechanics nonetheless flowed together. The D10 mechanic and raises was quick and simple. Combat was short but sweet (and deadly, just as I like it). The setting was one of the best I've seen full of all sorts of potential. Thankfully, some people I know have reworked it with rules from Seventh Seas and removing all its flaws to make it even better.

Posted by: Kagetenshi Jul 5 2004, 01:41 PM

QUOTE (Frag-o Delux)

http://www.buildabear.com/?cps=www.buildabear.com&cache=www.buildabear.com could lead to power gameing.

So what're the stats for a plush Cthulhu?

~J

Posted by: Erebus Jul 6 2004, 03:07 PM

QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Jul 5 2004, 08:41 AM)

So what're the stats for a plush Cthulhu?

Which one? The X-Mas Cthulhu or All-Season? Large or Small?

And my two creds on the topic subject:

Best combat system
- Couldn't answer this one if I tried... depends on the gamestyle I'm going for...
- Though if I had to pick it would probably be 7th Sea R&K.

Best Magic System
- Ars Magica
- Though Shadowrun is a close second for the spells/conjuring.

Most customizable (from GM's point of view)
- GURPS (though D20 isn't far behind)

Best Story Line
- Shadowrun(system)
- Planescape & Darksun (Setting)

Character creation
- GURPs (Not the easiest, but it has a high concept to paper ratio)

Ongoing Character Development
- Ars Magica

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up)
- White Wolf

Any other reason why one system beats another.
- Depends on what my interests are at that particular nano-second.

Edit: Hmm maybe I'll port 7th Sea R&K into Ars Magica...

Posted by: Konphujun Jul 19 2004, 06:29 PM

Well, I'de say that the best combat system goes to d20, same for learnability, its very simple. Best magic system I would say is shadowrun since theres no limit to the spells per day as with D&D and some others. Most customizeable would have to go to Exalted by white wolf. Unlike The Forgotten realms setting in D&D, they dont detail EVERY little thing, which gives you much more room to do some customization. (With so much info. I dont understand why they call it forgotten realms.)Storyline would have to be shadowrun for sheer consistency (spelling?). Character Development goes to SR and Exalted where you arent stifled by classes and stuff like with D&D and Rifts.

just my two cred.

Peace

Posted by: Maxxi Jul 28 2004, 02:27 PM

Best combat system
- I suppose I'd have to say GURPS, it gives you an option of how complex you want to make things.

Best Magic System
- Mage. It largely depends on how much understanding the players have of the game, but since you can do litterally whatever you want, it's pretty good stuff. I like the lack of boundaries.

Most customizable (from GM's point of view)
- GURPS, no challenge.

Best Story Line
- Aeonverse (although it got a little murky with Adventure!)
- Shadowrun

Character creation
- Aberrant (Storyteller System), although it's slightly complicated, creating characters in Aberrant is fun because you are basically encouraged to come up with unique characters. My character with Immolate 2 and Quantum Bolt 3 could either have a nimbus of flame, and throw fire balls, or could have acid covering his skin, and spit cobra venom. Great stuff.

Ongoing Character Development
- Hard to say, the WoD games have a very steep curve, while Shadowrun and Gurps seem to have a much more shallow one. I suppose I'd go with the steep WoD curve.

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up)
- White-Wolf

Any other reason why one system beats another.
- Not off hand.

Posted by: Tyrae Jul 28 2004, 04:04 PM

This aught to be interesting, it seems I play a few games that havn't been mentioned yet!

Best combat system: Silhouette by Dream Pod 9, the entire system is very easy to learn even if you want it to be detailed (as far as martial arts and grappling). It's a skill based system, point buy character creation, and as of 03', it's a near-generic system.

Best Magic System: BESM or Tri-stat from Guardians of Order has to be the best for it's cutomization. You can literaly do anything with it! If you want a fire ball, you got a fire ball, if you want to make the ladies swoon with your amazing lute playing, bam, you got that too!

Most customizable (from GM's point of view): BESM again here, Posibly the simplest system ever(published). From creating magical (high tech.) weapons and armour to race and 'class' templates, it doesn't get much easier. However this is also a downfall. Unless you get a few setting books (Uresia(fantasy), Cute, Cockfighting, Seisure Monster, Big Ears-Small Mouse) you have to do all the work yourself, wich can be a bit stresful. Though taking things from other modules or campaign books is simple enough.

Best Story Line: I'm going to have to go with Tribe 8 by Dream Pod 9. It's a setting that has had such a huge impact on me and what I have picked up sinse (including Shadowrun). It's a Post-Apocalyptic Tribal setting based around the Montreal area (called Vimary, in Tribe 8 ). Peoples fears and hatred start manifesting into physical beings called Z'bri and begin to rampage around the world, pooling humans into large 'camps' and bathing themselves in the flesh and blood. Eventualy the 'Mother Goddess' sends her children to teach the humans how to combat the Z'bri and live after the time of the Camps. I could go on and on!

Character creation: I know I seem a bit biased here in this post but I'm going to have to say Sillhouette again. If your really into creating a character, and not just crunching a bunch of numbers together, Sillhouette offers a great system with plenty of examples. Shadowrun is a close second, however, I'm not too sure I have had so many ideas come to me when creating a character before Shadowrun, but thats primarily because of the setting.

Ongoing Character Development: Probably Little Fears here, being able to watch a character physicaly and emotionaly grow is wonderful and Little Fears gives that to you upclose and personal (considering most players start at age 7).

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up): I don't believe i've ever had trouble with picking up any game really, besides maybe White Wolf games, but I believe thats based moreso on the layout of their books. I think my favorite game to teach to people is Palladium. Palladium anything, TMNT, Robotech, RIFTS, Fantasy...it's all great and very simply detailed.

Any other reason why one system beats another: It really is up to the game, I think. Some systems just work better for certain people or certain genres. I would use BESM over SiliCore to play a giant mecha game anyday (well, actualy i'd probably strugle through Silicore untill I could use it instead).

Tyrae ~ Fallen Child of Magdalen ( from Tribe 8 )

VICTORY NOT VENGEANCE

I wanted to list a few games I play as well, obviously all the ones above, including:
Heavy Gear (rpg and miniatures), Mechanical Dream, Confrontation (miniatures), Iron/Jadeclaw, Gear Craig (rpg and miniatures), Wraith: The Oblivion (proud owner of ever book printed for Wraith (yes, including Spectres!)), Changeling: The Dreaming, and quite a few others, if I think of them i'll type them up.

Posted by: northern lights Jul 29 2004, 01:39 PM

in all this, not a single mention for earthdawn as the best magic system. i am truly disappointed.

although, i am very biased on that topic.

thankfully though, no one posted anything (that i saw) from D&D as best anything, though i would forgive people claiming Planescape for atmosphere.

Posted by: Tyrae Jul 29 2004, 03:10 PM

Shew, yeah, Planescape...good frickin night. The artwork was absolutly briliant and though I don't know much about the setting. When I was younger those books certainly had an influence on my style today!

Tyrae ~ Fallen Child of Magdalite

VICTORY NOT VENGEANCE

Posted by: Bigity Jul 29 2004, 03:40 PM

Best Combat System: I actually like SR's. Alot more deadly then D20 combat (typically), a close second would be old D6 Star Wars. It was pretty simple, but deadly and very quick.

Best Magic System: Shadowrun or Runequest

Most customizable: Palladium or GURPS stuff. You can find a book on anything, anything at all.

Best Story Line:SR (with the exception of the early NAN stuff, just too unbelievable for me). Dark Sun was also always one of my favorites.

Character creation: Hmm. I like a bunch, and none sticks out above the rest much for me. AD&D, D&D, SR, MechWarrior, Star Wars D6

Ongoing Character Development:Personally, I feel this is a reflection of the way the game is run and the DM/players, not the system.

Learnability (how easy is the game to pick up):It sure isn't SR. I'd say Marvel Super Heros (the old dice-based one) or D6 Star Wars.

Any other reason why one system beats another:SR for it's coolness factor. I still love just reading the damn books. Star Wars for it being Star Wars and being the main game I played first in my youth. AD&D because of all the good times with the gang.

Posted by: RangerJoe Jul 29 2004, 04:22 PM

QUOTE

So what're the stats for a plush Cthulhu?

Heh. Now I can get even more enjoyment from my http://www.wickedcoolstuff.com/monpytkilrab1.html. Now those would be some wacky stats....

Posted by: The Question Man Jul 29 2004, 04:54 PM

IMOHO

Best/Favourite System/Mechanic - HERO System (Conversions galore)
Best/Favourite Setting - Shadowrun: 2050-2064 (14yrs of goodness)
Best/Favourite Genre - Modern Espionage/Near Future (Shadowrun's got it)
Best/Favourite Board Game - Battletech: 3025-3039

Cheers

QM

Posted by: xizor Jul 29 2004, 10:23 PM

a lot of people seem to like a product called "Mage" and i would like to learn more about it. However, i am not finding anything online by that title, so i am thinking that it might not be the full title.

could somebody post a relivent link ?

Posted by: Maxxi Jul 29 2004, 10:59 PM

Mage: The Ascension is a game by White-Wolf Game Studios. There is one slight problem, Mage is a game from the World of Darkness and the World of Darkness is discontinued. You can still probubly find Mage 3rd Edition on Amazon or Stiggybaby.com and a new version of Mage should come out in 2005.

Posted by: CountZero Jul 30 2004, 12:13 AM

Favorite setting: Shadowrun
Favorite Genere: Action Movie/Anime (Feng Shui/HKAT/BESM)
Favorite Systems:

Top 5

Feng Shui
Tri-Stat
Shadowrun
d20 Spycraft
GURPS

Games I really want to try:

The WWF RPG
Street Fighter Storytelling game (which I'm bidding on on E-Bay)

Posted by: Kagetenshi Jul 30 2004, 06:52 AM

QUOTE (RangerJoe)

QUOTE

So what're the stats for a plush Cthulhu?

Heh. Now I can get even more enjoyment from my http://www.wickedcoolstuff.com/monpytkilrab1.html. Now those would be some wacky stats....

I want stats on my Asterix and Obelix plush figures. Or Felix, the four-foot teddy bear.

~J

Posted by: Erebus Jul 30 2004, 08:49 PM

QUOTE (xizor @ Jul 29 2004, 05:23 PM)

Mage is a great game, put out by White Wolf that someone else already mentioned, and uses their Storyteller system. All of White Wolf's games have their roots in the Original Ars Magica game to some extent mostly due to Mark Rein-Hagen's influence in starting both of them. Its hard for me to discuss Mage, and Ars Magica without inter-referencing the other, because I got into 3rd Edition Ars Magica, at roughly the same time the First Edition of Mage came out.

Mage is brilliantly put together, but to get the most out of it, your players really need to be able to percieve the world through their character's paradigm of reality. This can be very hard at first, but is worth the effort in the long run if your really into roleplaying over rollplaying. Basically, each type of Mage has their own outlook on how their magic works, and must be internally consistant with their own practices.. Rules-wise the game talks about Mage's enforcing their will to shape reality, but generally mage characters don't see it quite that way, they know if they do this little ritual, the car explodes. Whereas in objective reality the ritual was a tool for the mage to focus his will to explode the car. Confused yet? No, good. Then your ready for Mage:tA, grasshopper.

Ars Magica is basically Mage & the World of Darkness Dark Ages style before there was a White Wolf:Dark Ages, and using a different rules system.

Ars Magica included three types of casting that roughly correspond to their equivelents in Mage:

Spontaneous - Basically describe an effect based on your skills and roll. This is really where the roots of Mage's Magic system got their first breath of life.

Formulaic - Think D&D style spells, but Mage's can cast anyone they know anytime they want basically as many times as they want... (The limiting factor being if you don't cast it well enough you can get fatigued.) This is the origin of M:tA's Rotes.

Ritual Spells: Just like it sounds... BIG MAGIC... Both games have something similar.

I generally prefer Mage for modern games, and Ars Magica for historical games, but thats just me. Ars Magica has a whole other set of baggage revolving around Covenants that Mage really downplays in their Chantries, both of which are basically just the names of places where the mage's live and study, but in Ars Magica the Covenant is really a seperate character that has a life all its own.

Here's the link for Mage:
http://www.white-wolf.com/mage

Posted by: xizor Aug 2 2004, 10:22 PM

thank you for the prompt information about Mage, Maxxi and Erebus
it sounds like a interesting game

Posted by: Skeptical Clown Aug 2 2004, 10:49 PM

I really have only invested significantly in three systems: Shadowrun, Star Wars d6, and D&D. I've also played CP2020, and a very little bit of Deadlands and LOTR (I.C.E). Of these, D&D 3.X has by far the most durable and dependable rules set. Shadowrun's is pretty functional, but advancement and game balance aren't all that they could be. D6's rules were very thin, but surprisingly usable.

I can't even count D&D as a game universe, because I almost always run homebrew. But Shadowrun's setting is still a favorite of mine. I have almost as much affection for West End's Star Wars setting, even though (or perhaps because) it drifts from what the overall Star Wars universe is today.

When I played CP2020, my impression was that it was a shoddy rules system. That was years ago however, and I can't make that call for certain. I did appreciate the punk atmosphere of CP2020, but for whatever reason, the games I played with other people devolved into just wandering around Night City and causing mayhem, not unlike free-form Grand Theft Auto. Amusing for awhile, but very limited.

I could just never get into the Rolemaster-light Lord of the Rings setting, and unfortunately I've never had opportunity to play Deadlands.

Posted by: Maxxi Aug 3 2004, 12:43 AM

I never much liked CP2020, the setting seemed too generic cyberpunk. Besides that, looking at all Cyberpunk now seems more like a time capsule to the past. It's interesting how bionics is a new field, but our communication technology is 20 years ahead. It seems odd to go to a data terminal on a street corner when you'd normally expect your PDA with web access to have that function.

Posted by: Necro Tech Aug 4 2004, 05:07 AM

DEADLANDS, DEADLANDS, DEADLANDS, DEADLANDS!! Seriously, this game has it all. The best part has to be character advancement and the games reliance on props. You actually play out the iniative rounds using a deck of cards. Also, almost all the magic relies on the random draw of a deck of cards which has to be the most original magic system I've ever played. I highly recomend this one but avoid the D20 version like the plague. The Black plague. At its very worst.

Posted by: Beast of Revolutions Aug 4 2004, 04:28 PM

What's the name of that kid's show about the Christian Superhero? The one that's like Spider Man meets Billy Graham? They should make an RPG out of that.

Posted by: Bob the Ninja Aug 5 2004, 07:24 AM

I have an odd facination with Earthdawn. Sure the rules were a bit clunky, but I've had a blast with that setting.

Posted by: littlesean Aug 6 2004, 03:20 AM

Best Magic system: Shadowrun, so very customizable.

Best Combat system that includes firearms: Shadowrun

Best Combat system that doesn't include firearms: D20

Best to bring in new blood: D20

Best setting: Iron Kingdoms by Privateer Press, a D20 setting with a steampunk feel, or as they like to call it, Full Metal Fantasy

Best storyline to date: Shadowrun, but they may be in danger of being eclipsed by Iron Kingdoms

Best overall feel: Shadowrun

Best advancement: Shadowrun

Most versatile from GM view: BESM or Tri-stat

There is my .02

Posted by: shadd4d Aug 8 2004, 12:31 AM

QUOTE (Necro Tech)

I agree.

I'd recommend Savage Worlds. It's based off of the Great Rail Wars system that spun off from Deadlands. It's a pretty snazzy combat system; if your basic tactics are "hit it till it drops", then you're going to have a quick, painful death in this game. You really have to fight tactically. Plus it supports lots of homebrew and other genres. If you just want to see how it works, there's a free download available: http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/SavageWorlds/TestDrive4.pdf. Still uses the cards for initiative plus it just simplifies a lot of things from Deadlands while adding in stuff for generic settings. One thing that gives me a lot of pause about getting back into Shadowrun is the number of books you need. Sorry, but I've already dropped more than $500 on this game. I like the fact that you just need the basic book for Savage Worlds and the setting book of your choice and there's you campaign.

For those who are interested, here is the reasoning behind http://www.peginc.com/ShootingBlind/MakingofSW.htm

BTW, Deadlands as a trilogy is being revamped and reworked to use this system.

Don

Posted by: Ruzai Aug 8 2004, 04:50 PM

Heyas!
I was wondering if anyone has ever tried Flashing Blades?
What exactly is Harn master? I have seen the books but no one I know plays it.

Posted by: Panzergeist Aug 10 2004, 12:52 AM

A BibleMan RPG would be cool.

Posted by: TimeKeeper Aug 10 2004, 08:14 AM

Let's see... Story and atmosphere... L5R is my fantasy setting while SR is my prefered post-modern RPG with WOD as my present day material.

I liked L5R for it's lethal gameplay (I was surprised when we tried running a combat heavy sesson. Almost half the party didn't make it. And were fully armed and armored), it really captured the feel of a fuedal empire.

I also liked BESM for it's easy to jump into and we could go over the top if we wanted and it would still be in character.

And I've learned not to despise D20 anymore. Mainly due to Star Wars, both Xbox/PC and tabletop (never played D6, but D20 material is much easier to find), and Icewind Dale 2 with Neverwinter Nights. Now I just mearly dislike D20.

Posted by: the_dunner Aug 13 2004, 04:26 PM

Just throwing out my thoughts here:

Best combat system : For me, this has to be Torg. Nothing beats the 1 die roll task resolution combined with the card based and possibility point system. It's not realistic, it's dramatic, but so are the stories I like to tell.

Best Magic System: As others have said, Ars Magica is undoubtedly the best, with Mage The Ascenscion as a close second. OTOH, those games *have* to have the best magic systems. Non-magic using characters are supposed to suck in comparison.

Most customizable: GURPS. There's well over 100 different world books to select from, all of which are balanced on the same point system. No other system begins to have the customization options that GURPS has. But, not other systems has really *tried* to have the customization options that GURPS has. It's generic and universal by design.

Best Story Line: Shadowrun. I've never been crazy about the mechanics, but the world setting and its development has alwasy been what's sucked me into Shadowrun.

Character creation : Amber Diceless. Most game systems have character creation that revolves around blind luck or around endless min-maxing. Amber starts off with an auction run by the GM, where the players bid character points for their PC's attributes. The interaction that this kind of a kick off provides for the campaign is priceless.

Learnability: Star Wars d6. For a someone new to RPGs, this game beats everything else. No funky dice, and a world setting that everyone knows. Task resolution is just a matter of grabbing all the dice listed on your character sheet, then adding up the total. It doesn't get any easier than this.

For my overall general purpose game system, I like Torg the best. The built in cross genre capabilities combined with the dramatic nature of the game engine suit my style of GMing perfectly.

Posted by: BookWyrm Aug 18 2004, 04:18 AM

For my humble opinion;

Best Combat system; the original MSH RPG. It was smooth, but not without it's bumps in the road.

Best Magic System; Shadowrun, all incarnations. There is a price for Magick, and this is never felt more than by all SR mages.

Most Customizable: GURPS. How else can you have a Lensman, a Wild Card ace, a vampire and a Discworld mage be put through the mind games of The Prisoner?

Best Storyline: Shadowrun. I'm counting the days until The Awakening....

Character Creation: Tied--SR & GURPS.

Learnability: the original MSH. What other RPG can spell an anagram of it's stats? (for MSH, it's FASERIP.. "face-rip", LOL)

Posted by: snowRaven Aug 18 2004, 09:02 PM

Best combat System: EON - a swedish fantasy game, which I am told is being translated into english at the moment. Regardless of your skill, you have to watch yourself. There are rules for taunts that are based on roleplaying them. Any halfass punk with a dagger can kill a superior fighter if he's lucky or devious enough. Being severely injured almost always results in unconsciousness before death, but you can stay conscious up until the moment of death too, if you are (un?)lucky. Most realistic combat rules I've ever seen, and they're not all that hard to learn either.

Best magic system: I like Shadowrun the best, I think. Simple yet flexible and useable.

Most customizable (from GM's point of view): GURPS? Something for everyone...

Best Story Line: Shadowrun for it's metaplot, or possibly KULT for it's world view idea.

Character creation: Two winners: Shadowrun (for planning your character out) and EON (for random creation - it has tons of tables to create your characters background, family situation, special abilities, etc. Our gaming group agrees it is the most fun character creation we've seen since Marvel Second Edition, and we've spent hours just creating characters for fun.

Ongoing Character Development: This one's tricky... I am almost tempted to say the original Star Wars. Shadowrun I find ca get abit unbalanced at high levels, whether you use the basic rules(pay karma and raise, no questions asked) or Companion alternative rules (chances are you'll sit on a stockpile of karma you never roll high enough to use).

Learnability: Marvel Superheroes. Then again I haven't played any of the games designed to be easy. Red Dwarf looks quite easy to learn and use, but I haven't played it so I don't know.