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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Captain Chaos
Posted by: Snow_Fox Dec 20 2005, 04:02 AM
I finally got my hand on the great crash of 2065 and I've only read some of it but after what was said about Captain Chaos I had to look into that first. Sure his meatbody is gone, but is cap? He was saved but is not supposed to be aware. He is. I think he's truly become the gohst in the machine.
Posted by: Fix-it Dec 20 2005, 04:29 AM
yerr... maybe he's alive walter john williams style. (Read "HardWired" if you don't know what I'm talking about.)
Posted by: Supercilious Dec 20 2005, 05:21 AM
Nah, he is gone.
And that is why I am not playing SR4.
I love the cap. I love him like a father.
When I am done with SR, and I never plan to run again. Then I will play the System Failure adventures, and advance my timeline. Except it ends with nuclear apocalypse, not "virtual reality."
/bitter.
Posted by: Calvin Hobbes Dec 20 2005, 05:43 AM
Captain Chaos is gone and dead.
Posted by: PiXeL01 Dec 20 2005, 06:32 AM
Yet another reason why not to get SR4 *sniff*
Posted by: Pthgar Dec 20 2005, 02:44 PM
Having read System Failure, i would say that CC is dead... unless a writer decides to bring him back. If no one writes further about him, he is dead but I feel that the text left a tiny crack open for CC to be around in the same manner as Kyle Haeffner's wife (from Echo Mirage, I can't remember her first name at the moment). I know that many feel that CC is gon-iddily-one but it is fiction and who knows what the future would bring.
Posted by: Ferratus Dec 20 2005, 03:37 PM
| QUOTE (Pthgar) |
| > If no one writes further about him, he is dead but I feel that the text left a tiny crack open for CC to be around in the same manner as Kyle Haeffner's wife (from Echo Mirage, I can't remember her first name at the moment). < |
Alice....hence her UV host, Wonderland
Posted by: Pthgar Dec 20 2005, 04:24 PM
Thanks.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 20 2005, 05:02 PM
didnt alice go down the hole in system failure?
ok so the cap is dead, so be it. he would die from old age at one point anyways. or maybe he would be put on ice, like that character in cyberpunk 2020?
change is needed at times. only that we humans hate change unless we initiate it ourselfs. something about the feeling of control over out own lifes and so on...
Posted by: TheHappyAnarchist Dec 20 2005, 05:32 PM
But, but, but what if the Cap became an AI. Then he could live forever and usher in a new era of fun flava text!!!
Posted by: FrankTrollman Dec 20 2005, 06:16 PM
...or subsequent books could be written by other characters in the Shadowrun world. Captain Chaos was cool, but I think it's also cool that he was awesome without being another ancient elf or unstoppable dragon. He really was just a man, and like all men he had a beginning and an end.
-Frank
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 20 2005, 06:25 PM
allso, the ol cap only made some opening statements and handed the word over to the people in the real know of a subject. about the only other time he showed his face in flavortexts and similar was to show that he had trown away masses of junk messages and similar (kinda like your avarage web-forum admin).
Posted by: mfb Dec 20 2005, 07:41 PM
i have to agree with FrankTrollman. Cap was awesome because he was just a guy, and yet the things he accomplished are as important as anything any IE or GD managed. it sucks that he's gone, but turning him into an AI or something would really take a lot away from him (starting with his body!).
Posted by: TheHappyAnarchist Dec 20 2005, 08:31 PM
I would just like to note, I was going for sarcasm.
The idea of turning Cap into some kind of uberMatrix AI of doom who will constantly oversee the new generation of Shadowrunners makes me sad.
I second that Cap was cool and is immortalized by his achievements and not by any actual immortal bits.
On the other hand, if Fastjack learned about what happened to Cap, might he try and set up an AI for himself and live on in the matrix? Seems like it might be more his style, but I could be wrong. He is getting tired after all.
Posted by: Adam Dec 21 2005, 12:49 AM
Life isn't cheap in the shadows unless important characters are allowed to die.
Posted by: Tanka Dec 21 2005, 12:53 AM
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| allso, the ol cap only made some opening statements and handed the word over to the people in the real know of a subject. about the only other time he showed his face in flavortexts and similar was to show that he had trown away masses of junk messages and similar (kinda like your avarage web-forum admin). |
Wrong! Read through The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life. He does some spouting for the Neo-A's.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 21 2005, 01:50 AM
heh. figures that a old book like that would do me in.
i enterd sr around late sr2 btw tanka...
and maybe you loosen up on your posting style. its a bit overloaded in a way...
Posted by: Tanka Dec 21 2005, 01:52 AM
I actually entered around SR3, but my group plays SR2, so I picked up all the old books.
And, yes, my style is a bit harsh at times. If you get offended, well... I suppose that's that.
Posted by: FrostyNSO Dec 21 2005, 02:10 AM
Wow tanka, your getting post-picked all over the place!
Posted by: Tanka Dec 21 2005, 02:16 AM
Not really. Just two people. No big deal, I just tend to come off as abrasive when I don't particularly mean to.
Must be the job working its way through me.
Posted by: Dale Dec 21 2005, 02:47 AM
IF Captain Chaos is really dead now, then who will take his place? I mean officially in-game canon-wise.
Posted by: FrostyNSO Dec 21 2005, 02:52 AM
I don't have SR4, but I believe Fastjack moves into the spot.
Posted by: FrankTrollman Dec 21 2005, 03:15 AM
| QUOTE (Dale @ Dec 20 2005, 09:47 PM) |
| IF Captain Chaos is really dead now, then who will take his place? I mean officially in-game canon-wise. |
| QUOTE (Fastjack @ SR4 history section) |
| So what is a legend supposed to do when the world changes around him? Most of my colleagues are dead-hell, Captain Chaos should've been writing this, but he went down with his ship during the second Crash. |
So the Captain's quest for information to be even more free continues, perhaps more successfully than ever with the Wireless Matrix. It's just that he isn't there to see it.
-Frank
Posted by: Calvin Hobbes Dec 21 2005, 05:39 AM
In their quest to move away from SR3, I think we'll be seeing less kore kharacters.
Posted by: Oracle Dec 21 2005, 06:24 AM
I just hope that they keep the legend of Captain Chaos alive and do not allow him to be forgotten by future generations of Shadowrun players.
Posted by: Mr.Platinum Dec 21 2005, 12:18 PM
| QUOTE (Supercilious) |
| Nah, he is gone. And that is why I am not playing SR4. I love the cap. I love him like a father. When I am done with SR, and I never plan to run again. Then I will play the System Failure adventures, and advance my timeline. Except it ends with nuclear apocalypse, not "virtual reality." /bitter. |
Man you father must be truely horrible.
But in shadowrun theres always going to be some guy who wants to inform the people of the world.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 21 2005, 10:48 PM
| QUOTE (tanka) |
| And, yes, my style is a bit harsh at times. If you get offended, well... I suppose that's that. |
nah, not offended, thats to harsh a word...
it was more a comment for future refrence then for my reaction. others may not take so lightly to it as i do (most of the time
).i was half expecting to be disproved, but i question the need to rub it in the way it seems your post does...
Posted by: Tanka Dec 21 2005, 11:40 PM
Wasn't really meaning to rub it. It's hard to have any inflections or intonations online. It was more of a jocular "Wrong!" than an accusatory "Wrong!"
Posted by: Lazarus Dec 22 2005, 12:02 AM
What Captain Chaos could do is like form some sort AI Voltron with Deus, Megera, Mirage, and the Smiling Bandit. They could defend Deep Resonance against the evil forces of... whoever...
Fastjack could be the guy who gives them all their missions sort like a hippie King Alfor.
Sweet! And I have the link below:
http://www.voltronforce.com/
FanPro just think of the cross-over Market!
Now we just need some sort Shadowrunning Thundercats 
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 22 2005, 12:38 AM
| QUOTE (tanka) |
| Wasn't really meaning to rub it. It's hard to have any inflections or intonations online. It was more of a jocular "Wrong!" than an accusatory "Wrong!" |
the written medium is realy a limited one when it comes to some styles of communication.
i have seen several attempts at irony and sarcasm spark gigantic flamewars, both in this page and others.
Posted by: Valentinew Dec 22 2005, 12:39 AM
G-Force!
Posted by: Mr.Platinum Dec 22 2005, 01:13 AM
Form up Dangaiooooooooooooooooooooo.
And Long Live the Captain.
Posted by: BetaFlame Dec 22 2005, 01:15 AM
He's dead, Jim.
Posted by: BookWyrm Dec 22 2005, 02:39 AM
Whatever be his fate, The Capt. will be missed.
Posted by: JongWK Dec 22 2005, 03:33 AM
| QUOTE (Lazarus) |
| Now we just need some sort Shadowrunning Thundercats |
SURGE, anyone?
Posted by: Wiz In Red Dec 22 2005, 05:33 AM
Eventually some poser kid will come along trying to post as CC and people are going to ooohhh and ahhh. Just remember the good times, and if you're religious, realize the next iteration of the Cap is a "false prophet."
Seriously though. I think that letting a character as big as CC die is a good move to advance the story and shake things up. Besides, just think about how things will be for new runners.
"Back in my day, Captain Chaos was the one who kept people in the know. Now we got us some young pup..." You know how old timers get. 
This is all just from my point of view.
Posted by: Lenice Hawk Dec 22 2005, 06:25 AM
I could see CC being a ghost in the machine, I can also see him having as many impersonators as Elvis. Would he have the same cult following I wonder?
I guess what it boils down to is what you consider alive. Can we get so advanced at mapping how humans make choices and live there lives that we can transfer their "soul" as it were to the net? Or is it just a complex AI that only seems real to others, but is lifeless?
If CC is brought back, I just hope they do a good job. Nothing halfway. Otherwise, let him die.
Posted by: Liper Dec 22 2005, 08:18 AM
yeah, they killed the big D, they kill CC, hell they'll kill anyone, lives are a dime a dozen and you need to tread carefully....
I love shadowrun.
Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Dec 22 2005, 08:43 AM
I dunno. Killing the 'cap seems wrong. Moving him behind the scenes, maybe he decides to retire to some UV Paradise, but KILLING the 'cap? Just whacking him, blam?...
So wrong. People as important as the 'cap do not go down with a Delete? y/n command. They go down in a hail of bullets, or under a major ass-whupping in cybercombat, or explode in mysterious circumstances. They don't just get shift-del'd.
Posted by: Liper Dec 22 2005, 08:49 AM
He did die in a giant fight, he got saved somewhat then died truely.
Posted by: Shanshu Freeman Dec 22 2005, 08:57 AM
| QUOTE (tanka @ Dec 21 2005, 01:52 AM) |
| I actually entered around SR3, but my group plays SR2, so I picked up all the old books. And, yes, my style is a bit harsh at times. If you get offended, well... I suppose that's that. |
lol, gotta love honesty
| QUOTE (Lazarus) |
| What Captain Chaos could do is like form some sort AI Voltron with Deus, Megera, Mirage, and the Smiling Bandit. They could defend Deep Resonance against the evil forces of... whoever... Fastjack could be the guy who gives them all their missions sort like a hippie King Alfor. |
I kinda envisioned it like Charlie's Angels
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) | ||
the written medium is realy a limited one when it comes to some styles of communication. i have seen several attempts at irony and sarcasm spark gigantic flamewars, both in this page and others. |
merely several? Seems like there's at least one per thread, usually more, lolIt's to be expected when you put a bunch of gamers in one place, though. (Not that I'm any different.)
Seems like so often the problem is people are quick to take offense, looking for a reason to get indignant. People act as if they have the right not to be offended... if we were less quick to offense, and quicker to forgive and laugh about it, it would certainly smooth things out.
Seems like a lotta folks got a lotta sand where it doesn't belong.
Posted by: mfb Dec 22 2005, 09:29 AM
| QUOTE (Wiz in Red) |
| "Back in my day, Captain Chaos was the one who kept people in the know. Now we got us some young pup..." |
that Fastjack whippersnapper sure is a firecracker, though.
Posted by: RunnerPaul Dec 22 2005, 01:03 PM
| QUOTE (mfb) | ||
that Fastjack whippersnapper sure is a firecracker, though. |
You owe me a replacement soda and a replacement keyboard.
Posted by: littlesean Dec 22 2005, 01:18 PM
| QUOTE |
| I am not the real Captain Chaos. The real Captain Chaos retired years ago and is living like a king in Patagonia. |
that is how I see it anyway.
Posted by: Dale Dec 22 2005, 08:51 PM
Aw, this thread made me think of mortality. I just realized that 15 or so years have flown by since Shadowrun entered my life, and 20 years in-game,and also that all my favourite people who aren't elves are freaking OLD. Like in their 60's. Or dead.
Wolfgang Keis - dead or my dad's age,
Sally Tsung,
Ghost-Who-Walks,
Zig and Zag,
Tiki (Striper),
Sam Verner,
etc...
Frag.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 22 2005, 10:24 PM
thats SOTA for you...
Posted by: nick012000 Dec 22 2005, 10:29 PM
What's the lifespan of shifters like? You'd think that the regeneration would probably be rather lifespan-enhancing, so Striper's probably like Wolverine- forever stuck in her 20s.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 22 2005, 10:32 PM
that realy depends. are we talking adamantium-enhanced wolverine or the non-enhanced version. the regeneration is in fact even more crasy on the non-enhanced version 
Posted by: Setthoth Dec 24 2005, 02:29 AM
Cap is dead. In honor of his memory may I present Cap 2.0. This SK based on the beloved personality of Captain Chaos will act as IC and help function here at the Haven....
Posted by: Calvin Hobbes Dec 24 2005, 05:40 AM
Hobgoblin: Who cares?
Nick: I think shifters age as normal, since they're assumed to be representational of their age physically.
Posted by: BookWyrm Dec 24 2005, 06:44 AM
| QUOTE (JongWK) | ||
SURGE, anyone? |
I can just hear it now.....
"I swear, man, if you call me "Panthro" just one more time....."
:lol:
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 24 2005, 01:04 PM
| QUOTE (Calvin Hobbes) |
| Hobgoblin: Who cares? |
just a brain-fart more or less. i was bored...
Posted by: Dog Dec 24 2005, 11:36 PM
CH: going back to your spoiler on page 1, was that an opinion, an interpretation, or something you read? Inquiring minds wanna know.
Posted by: Hoondatha Dec 25 2005, 02:55 AM
It's never actually stated whether or not CC is deleted. The text ends just as the program has reached the decision.
So it's possible JackBNimble decided to save CC anyway. It's equally likely that it just hit delete. But we don't know.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 25 2005, 03:40 AM
this allows GMs to go their own way.
and i hope that the writers of future products have the good sense of leaving it that way!
Posted by: Calvin Hobbes Dec 25 2005, 04:52 AM
Now that's not to say that CC *is* gone by the end of the story; JackBNimble indicates that he will be deleted but doesn't do it explicitly.
However: it is then stated in the paragraph immediately following Last Man Standing that:
| QUOTE |
| As a consequence of the events, several nodes will go up in flame, leading to the death of system operators and drones, the most prominent of which is Captain Chaos himself, who spearheaded Shadowland Seattle for more than fifteen years. |
Since this is metatext, not flavor text, it's not as open to interpretation.
Posted by: nick012000 Dec 25 2005, 01:52 PM
Of course, the metatext still refers to the Big D's death as an assassination rather than the suicide it was, so...
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 25 2005, 03:53 PM
a dead body does not mean that the "ghost" is deleted
ok, so he have not shown up after the crash. and hopefully he will never officialy do.
however i dont see the metatext eliminating the posibility that his ghost may well be floating around out there...
Posted by: Calvin Hobbes Dec 25 2005, 04:51 PM
Which is the crux of a black swan argument I'm not going to involve myself in. Until I see metatext declaring his triumphant return, though (and don't get me wrong, I agree it'll probably happen,) I will assume he's dead until it's been declared otherwise. And although White Wolf's buying into a world without metaplot, I'm pretty sure FanPro isn't... though wouldn't that be cool if they were? If you could run games without being contradicted by later releases?
Restoring someone to life after their sacrifice cheapens it. Jesus got a by, no one else should be trying to upstage Jesus, dragon or no.
Posted by: Dale Dec 26 2005, 04:18 AM
Actually Jesus upstaged a lot of people that came before him...
And I LOVE Metaplot.
Posted by: Liper Dec 26 2005, 07:03 AM
in RL, only if you buy several religions are valid theory, no one upstaged jesus unless you're a heratic.
Posted by: Ancient History Dec 26 2005, 07:12 AM
Liper: Check out the history of Simon Magus and John the Baptist. Jesus did upstage a lot of people. Whether anyone has ever upstaged Jesus...well, that's a personal opinion. The prophet Muhammed certainly accomplished a great deal, but I don't think it was ever his intention to upstage Jesus.
[/edit] And it is heretic.
Posted by: Liper Dec 26 2005, 07:51 AM
| QUOTE |
| Check out the history of Simon Magus and John the Baptist. Jesus did upstage a lot of people. Whether anyone has ever upstaged Jesus...well, that's a personal opinion. |
great, john the baptist is relevant to jesus not bieng upstaged how? oh it's not, moot point =p
Muhhamed isn't recognized by the bible (since it's after the bible) and isn't really recognized by mainstream christanity, as for spelling, obviously you figured out what I meant
Posted by: Dog Dec 26 2005, 03:39 PM
Best hijack ever!
Posted by: FrankTrollman Dec 26 2005, 06:46 PM
Look, even if you're a total Christian, you have to admit that Jesus was upstaged by Barabbas. It's right there in the Christian Testament.
-Frank
Posted by: JongWK Dec 26 2005, 07:26 PM
Longinus to another legionnaire: "So, uh, how many Xp do I get for killing him?"
Posted by: otaku mike Dec 27 2005, 01:53 AM
I'm confused now... No one told me that Captain Chaos was Jesus... Damn freelancer crack, it affects memory too apparently.
Posted by: Tanka Dec 27 2005, 02:53 AM
"It's worse than that; he's dead, Jim!"
Posted by: Trax Dec 27 2005, 03:08 AM
| QUOTE (nick012000) |
| Of course, the metatext still refers to the Big D's death as an assassination rather than the suicide it was, so... |
Where does it say that he killed himself?
Posted by: Tanka Dec 27 2005, 03:15 AM
A few of the novels. The Dragonheart Trilogy, especially.
Posted by: Trax Dec 27 2005, 03:42 AM
That would explain it I guess, I've never read any of the Shadowrun novels. Looking at Amazon, it looks like I'll be able to remedy that fairly soon.
Posted by: emo samurai Dec 27 2005, 04:39 AM
| QUOTE |
| Longinus to another legionnaire: "So, uh, how many Xp do I get for killing him?" |
The XP is spread amongst the entire Roman empire. It's still infinite XP, though, so he probably levels up a bit.
Posted by: Ancient History Dec 27 2005, 04:55 AM
| QUOTE (emo samurai) | ||
The XP is spread amongst the entire Roman empire. It's still infinite XP, though, so he probably levels up a bit. |
Rigger, please. Don't you read Barry Sadler? Casca gains so much XP he leveled up into a class that made him semi-immortal.
Posted by: Mr.Platinum Dec 27 2005, 01:43 PM
I kinda thought the Cpt Chaos upstaged those religious icons, cause i read his good books more than the other good books.
Posted by: Vagabond Dec 27 2005, 11:40 PM
I just don't understand why the writers apparently feel obligated to kill off a major character at the dawn of every edition or major release. They are getting worse than a soap opera.
Posted by: Tanka Dec 27 2005, 11:41 PM
Next up, Harlequin!
Waitaminute...
Posted by: emo samurai Dec 28 2005, 12:46 AM
Captain Chaos dying was just random. I remember Dunkelzahn dying in a car bomb. Who else died to herald a new edition? And where is there a program called JackBNimble?
Posted by: mfb Dec 28 2005, 12:55 AM
nahh. Alice dying? that was random. Cap was a story element.
JackBNimble was willed to Cap by Dunk, after Dunk died in that car bomb you referenced.
Posted by: emo samurai Dec 28 2005, 12:59 AM
| QUOTE |
| Next up, Harlequin! |
Did Harlequin die or something?
Posted by: SL James Dec 28 2005, 01:27 AM
| QUOTE (Vagabond) |
| I just don't understand why the writers apparently feel obligated to kill off a major character at the dawn of every edition or major release. They are getting worse than a soap opera. |
I could go on and on about Matador's death.
Posted by: Ancient History Dec 28 2005, 02:21 AM
| QUOTE (SL James) | ||
I could go on and on about Matador's death. |
You'll know that SR4 has jumped the shark when Picador dies and they replace her with Femtador. </nerd humor>
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 28 2005, 03:13 AM
this is the shadows we are talking about. if people dont die it would surprise me...
Posted by: Tanka Dec 28 2005, 03:30 AM
| QUOTE (emo samurai @ Dec 27 2005, 08:59 PM) | ||
Did Harlequin die or something? |
No. I was being facetious.
Dunk died to "herald in" SR3. Cap died to "herald in" SR4. I'm joking around, saying that Harlequin will die to "herald in" SR5.
(Yes, I "like" to use the "quote" character. It makes my "posts" look more "important".)
Posted by: Dale Dec 28 2005, 05:42 AM
"It works"
Posted by: Vagabond Dec 28 2005, 06:09 AM
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| this is the shadows we are talking about. if people dont die it would surprise me... |
The Shadows? Being the President of the UCAS is hardly a Shadowjob.
Posted by: Deamon_Knight Dec 28 2005, 06:43 AM
Really? Just how sure of that are you?
Posted by: Fix-it Dec 28 2005, 06:55 AM
Are you kidding???
there's TONS of stuff that goes on in the oval office that no one knows about.
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Dec 28 2005, 06:56 AM
"pretty" sure.
I actually like the mortality of important PC's. Gives a stronger sense to the game that yes, you too will die. Really, how long has friggin' Mordenkainen been around!? It jsut sets the status quo and limits the ability for others to move up and take the place of the old guard. Makes the world to static. my 2 
Posted by: Liper Dec 28 2005, 06:59 AM
People don't like change, but to keep a game interesting and fresh, things have to change.
(to borrow lessons from magicthegathering.com's recent article)
Posted by: Grinder Dec 28 2005, 02:52 PM
But change doesn't need to be the same like death.
Posted by: Sicarius Dec 28 2005, 03:58 PM
While I agree with FD3 about showing the mortality of the game world. The problem with Cap's death, (IMHO) is not that he died, but that he died "on cue."
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 28 2005, 04:28 PM
on cue?
you may well say that any metacharater that have ever died, have died on cue...
Posted by: Sicarius Dec 28 2005, 04:42 PM
well, in the sense that they are characters of course.
What I meant, was that the impetus to have them die came not from the plot itself, but from considerations in the real world, like a soap opera character who is killed because their actors' contract expired and they didnt' want to pay him more money.
Posted by: hobgoblin Dec 28 2005, 04:45 PM
hmm, maybe so...
Posted by: mintcar Dec 28 2005, 05:21 PM
That may be true. That has more to do with what you think of System Failure and SR4 than it has to do with what you think of Cap´s death, though
That he is percieved as having died "on cue" has to do with how sudden this matrix crash thing was introduced, I think. If that had been implied with a bit of tragic irony in a few more of the suplements leading up to the new edition, it wouldn´t have been cheezy at all, and Cap dying would have been part of the inevitable tragic end.
All other things aside, it would be more relevant to ask yourself if Cap´s death filled a purpous in SF. If it made that storyline better or worse. I personaly think they made the most of it.
To truely give the story all the litterary quality it could have had, they would have needed to plan for the death of the matrix several years earlier than they did. But they couldn´t do that because it was prompted by changes and technological advancements in the real world.
Posted by: Sicarius Dec 28 2005, 07:20 PM
Well, I'll own up to being an SR3 holdout, which explains part of my feeling of Chaos' demise seeming somewhat staged. And while references were made to Wireless Matrix issues, and some of the new players in SR in books like Shadows of Europe, and perhaps even more so in Shadows of Asia, the fact that books were coming out after SR4's change was already announced gave of the feeling (to me,) that the metaplot was being shaped to meet the rules, rather than the rules being shaped to meet the game world.
BUT That is a different kettle of fish, I only point it out to agree with Mint, that one's feeling about the timing Cap's death may say more about one's thoughts on the SR4 than the plot itself. (I know it does mine.)
Posted by: JongWK Dec 28 2005, 07:52 PM
| QUOTE (Ancient History) | ||||
You'll know that SR4 has jumped the shark when Picador dies and they replace her with Femtador. </nerd humor> |
I've always found amusing that a female literature student would use a male nickname.
Posted by: FrankTrollman Dec 28 2005, 09:20 PM
| QUOTE (Sicarius) |
| Well, I'll own up to being an SR3 holdout, which explains part of my feeling of Chaos' demise seeming somewhat staged. And while references were made to Wireless Matrix issues, and some of the new players in SR in books like Shadows of Europe, and perhaps even more so in Shadows of Asia, the fact that books were coming out after SR4's change was already announced gave of the feeling (to me,) that the metaplot was being shaped to meet the rules, rather than the rules being shaped to meet the game world. BUT That is a different kettle of fish, I only point it out to agree with Mint, that one's feeling about the timing Cap's death may say more about one's thoughts on the SR4 than the plot itself. (I know it does mine.) |
Just wanted to point out that both Shadows of Europe and Shadows of North America predated the SR4 push, and that both those books had Wireless Matrix teasers in them.
If SR3 had gone on, it would have had a wireless matrix by 2070. The shift wasn't sudden, it just feels sudden because the wireless parts of the Matrix were always clumsily ad hocced under the SR3 rules - and the four year time jump coincided with the transition period to complete wireless dominance.
-Frank
Posted by: Sicarius Dec 29 2005, 11:20 AM
I know that you are right Frank. No doubt the feeling has large part to do with the human attempt to find causality in correlation.
Cap died as SR4 came out, therefore Cap died BECAUSE it came out.
It's not rational. But since when were people rational about beloved figures?
Posted by: otaku mike Dec 29 2005, 04:48 PM
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| Just wanted to point out that both Shadows of Europe and Shadows of North America predated the SR4 push, and that both those books had Wireless Matrix teasers in them. |
Even more interesting is the fact that none of the writers for SoE, and almost none of the writers for SoA knew that SR4 was in the making at the time we were writing the book. From memory alone, I believe only Jon Szeto (who wrote Russia and China in SoA) knew about SR4. The part that pushed forward the wireless Matrix was in the Japan chapter, and its author didn't know about SR4.
So, this move toward a wireless Matrix was not motivated by a need to accomodate SR4. It was rather a will to move SR farther on the tech curve, as real life and its wireless technologies were gaining fast on SR. This was a necessary move to keep the futuristic feel in SR. And its something all freelancers agreed about, even without knowing about SR4 development.
Mike
Posted by: Mr.Platinum Dec 29 2005, 10:55 PM
The Captain may of dies but it does'nt really effeft anything in my game i always wondered what JackBNimble was.
Posted by: Cynic project Dec 30 2005, 09:03 PM
His death made him a more human charatcer and a batter character. I loved him, and thought he was a good character but the fact that he died showed us that he was not some UBER IE..Fuck I think ti s kinda of silly to have things liek IEs in shadowrun book.I don't mean to say remove them but whyt he fuck woudl they post on shadowrun forums?
Posted by: SL James Dec 30 2005, 09:17 PM
I treat it two ways: OOC, I read them and treat them as what they are, which is metatext. IC, I treat them like everyone did in the Madagascar chapter of Cyberpirates!, and I ignore them. Probably one of the more egregious examples of adding text after the fact, there are clearly two distinct conversations going on, one IC and one OOC.
But I see I failed to answer your question, which is, because due to a fluke in the reality distortion field Shadowland is probably (or is treated as if it is probably) the most accurate source of information anywhere in the Sixth World - a Wiki on steroids - and even IEs and GDs probably see the utility in reading it, and given the ego one would assume of a 5,000-10,000 year old sentient, sometimes they feel the need to post either directly (like Hestaby did in her chapter Dragons of the Sixth World) or post teaser and/or smartass comments, which isn't exactly uncommon for people to do on the Internet now, so why would it change in 60 years?
Posted by: tisoz Dec 31 2005, 01:11 AM
I see your point, but put some scale and context to it. Do the truly rich and powerful of today post to internet chat rooms? Anyone remotely to the scale of those of SR? I don't think so.
Posted by: RunnerPaul Dec 31 2005, 01:42 AM
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| Do the truly rich and powerful of today post to internet chat rooms? |
Comedian Robin Williams likes to play a sniper on the Battlefield 2 servers.
Posted by: emo samurai Dec 31 2005, 01:45 AM
| QUOTE |
| Do the truly rich and powerful of today post to internet chat rooms? Anyone remotely to the scale of those of SR? |
They would, if forums offered as much controlled intel as they do in SR.
Posted by: nick012000 Dec 31 2005, 07:43 AM
| QUOTE (RunnerPaul) | ||
Comedian Robin Williams likes to play a sniper on the Battlefield 2 servers. |
I'll bet that gives him a lot of material to work with.
Posted by: Liper Dec 31 2005, 08:34 AM
opie and anthony, one of them plays everquest, also ben stien's son plays everquest, there are a couple celebs that play socom, and hell, look at half of the musicians that you see on mtv when they are in thier trailers or what not, they have games and play it, it's reasonable to assume they play online also, or at least some of the time.
Posted by: JongWK Dec 31 2005, 04:16 PM
The rich and famous have their own boards, see http://www.asmallworld.org/.
Posted by: Grinder Dec 31 2005, 04:22 PM
| QUOTE (Liper @ Dec 31 2005, 09:34 AM) |
| opie and anthony, one of them plays everquest, also ben stien's son plays everquest, there are a couple celebs that play socom, and hell, look at half of the musicians that you see on mtv when they are in thier trailers or what not, they have games and play it, it's reasonable to assume they play online also, or at least some of the time. |
I heard rumours that musicians and even actors are normal people and so maybe interested in video games, chatting and similar stuff...
Besides: do you know how boring life on tour can become? Every musician welcomes a video game with open arms, since it let pass some oterhwise long'n'boring hours quickly.
Posted by: tisoz Jan 1 2006, 02:39 AM
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| ...put some scale and context to it. Do the truly rich and powerful of today post to internet chat rooms? Anyone remotely to the scale of those of SR? I don't think so. |
Like world leaders or multi billionaires. Not some simstar of the month.
Posted by: Mr.Platinum Jan 1 2006, 03:22 AM
Well i guess there people to.
Posted by: hobgoblin Jan 1 2006, 04:34 AM
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| But I see I failed to answer your question, which is, because due to a fluke in the reality distortion field Shadowland is probably (or is treated as if it is probably) the most accurate source of information anywhere in the Sixth World - a Wiki on steroids - and even IEs and GDs probably see the utility in reading it, and given the ego one would assume of a 5,000-10,000 year old sentient, sometimes they feel the need to post either directly (like Hestaby did in her chapter Dragons of the Sixth World) or post teaser and/or smartass comments, which isn't exactly uncommon for people to do on the Internet now, so why would it change in 60 years? |
maybe so, but accuracy alone cant help when you have to know how to find it. kinda like hiding the wiki under a pure ip address or something and making it totaly ignored by google and others.
basicly, you have to know its there.
allso, its a nonverifiable source. if shadowland says one thing, and 3-4 news sites says a diffrent thing, what do joe wageslave belive?
only people that allready know that something strange is going on (like say experienced shadowrunners, or beings that have other information channels that verify what shadowland posts) will be likely to "trust" a source like shadowland.
and its kinda funny that you compare it to a wiki as recently the accurasy of wikipedia have been questioned. this after someone edited the profile on a person as a practical joke aimed at a friend.
basicly, information from a single, unverifiable, source is at best a rumor. at worst, outright lies.
thing is that the diffrent sourcebooks have to present stuff as facts. to try and use that info to say how good a source is in the eyes of the people inside the shadowrun world is flawed. its basicly metagaming at its finest. the player knows whats going on, but the character do not.
its kinda like trying to calculate how many shadowrunners there is in the shadowrun world, based on the number of people that play the game, as if they where all playing inside the same dimension. at best they are playing in paralell dimensions, or alternate realitys if you like.
so for the dragons and others that post on shadowland, the place is only one more source that can be used to verify the info that they allready is getting from their networks of spies, contacts, and in the case of atleast lofwyr, traffic sniffs from the matrix.
shadowland alone isnt a good source of info. but if you can find the same info there as you can find elsewhere, the chance that the info is correct increase.
Posted by: Talain Jan 9 2006, 09:29 PM
To be fair, the Cap went down to Jormungandr in what amounted to a mutual death, as the fight stopped it from destroying everything.
That's what Thor did! That's a damn fine way to go out, the whole JackBNimble thing was after that.
The Captain went down fighting, he just lived a bit past the battle.
Posted by: Lindt Jan 10 2006, 08:53 PM
Umm... sadly he didnt stop a damm thing. A massive chuck of the Denver hub went down with him.
Lets face it, he got lit the Eff up by a cascading worm. I for one morn his literary passing.
Posted by: Synner Jan 10 2006, 11:25 PM
| QUOTE (Lindt) |
| Umm... sadly he didnt stop a damm thing. |
Well, not directly no, but then again Thor didn't kill Jormungand in time to stop it from poisoning the world either. However, without the good Captain and Shadowland's sacrifice word of the code eggs would never have gotten out and no one outside the Big Ten would know how to take down the worm - consider the consequences of that information left solely in their hands. Nah, the Captain went down doing what he did best, getting the word out, like someone says: "Cap, if you pull this off, everybody’s going to owe you.”
Posted by: Snow_Fox Jan 11 2006, 01:22 AM
what better way, for man to die
than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods?
Posted by: Ancient History Jan 11 2006, 01:36 AM
Some lead a life of mild content:
Content may fall, as well as pride.
The Frog who hugged his lowly ditch
Was much disgruntled when it dried.
-Saki
Posted by: TiverSR1 Jan 27 2006, 12:23 AM
| QUOTE |
| As a consequence of the events, several nodes will go up in flame, leading to the death of system operators and drones, the most prominent of which is Captain Chaos himself, who spearheaded Shadowland Seattle for more than fifteen years. |
Since this is metatext, not flavor text, it's not as open to interpretation [END QUOTE]
Hrmm, Ive read through this section several times and all I got from the section was that Cap's physical body died. As did many other people who were jacked in at the time. More interesting is the next part of the text Down the Rabbit Hole which talks about how many of them became ghosts in the machine. Perhaps not uber AIs, or uber anything just a kind of spirit in the matrix. And I strongly got the impression that Cap was one of those new spirits.
Who better to act as a conscience of the matrix that Cap Chaos?
Im still curious though what JackBNimble was, I used to think it was from "another world" as in another solar system, but perhaps the Big D meant another realm of reality, ie the matrix. It seemed to me that Jack was in many ways kindof a Cheron like entity, a gatekeeper to the nether realm of a matrix styled afterlife.
Just some thoughts, peace now
Posted by: September Jan 27 2006, 02:47 AM
| QUOTE |
| Next up, Harlequin! |
You're so missing it. In logically progression, the next one to die is Lofwyr. Now that we're all set up to dislike him, he goes and, oh, I dunno, throws himself into a comet our something, just to save the earth.
Posted by: eidolon Jan 27 2006, 03:24 AM
| QUOTE (otaku mike) |
| So, this move toward a wireless Matrix was not motivated by a need to accomodate SR4. It was rather a will to move SR farther on the tech curve, as real life and its wireless technologies were gaining fast on SR. This was a necessary move to keep the futuristic feel in SR. |
That's another issue I have with SR4. It's a response to real world tech advancement. That might be fine and dandy if you tend to look at the SR world as a furthering of our own.
I don't though. In my mind, the SR world has nothing to do with our own from about the first page on. It's the SR world. So you want to move the world toward having a wireless matrix? Okay, so introduce it over a couple of kick ass books, and have it phased in. What happens to old tech when new tech comes in? It gets cheap, and readily available. It doesn't just dissapear (SR4). Because of things like this, SR4 comes off as hackneyed, since it makes next to no effort to logically follow SR3.
That, combined with not liking the mechanics as much...but that's been done to death.
<<edit>>meh, just ignore me. Didn't mean to try to hijack.
Posted by: nick012000 Jan 27 2006, 04:52 AM
| QUOTE (JongWK) |
| The rich and famous have their own boards, see http://www.asmallworld.org/. |
...
How long until they get either
A. Hacked by someone who doesn't like the elitism
or
B. invaded by spambots,
I wonder?
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