Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Assorted b00b questions

Posted by: Mauler Jan 2 2006, 04:03 PM

Hi there, I'm the new guy.

I got SR4 for Xmas and spent the last days reading. Now I have some questions... maybe you veterans can help me?

First question: A shotgun's range is almost halved when loading Flechette Ammo. Sounds reasonable enough, but what happens to other firearms using Flechette Ammo? Is their range reduced as well?

Edit: The title should read 'n00b' not 'b00b', sorry...

Posted by: Jaid Jan 2 2006, 04:28 PM

heh, was wondering about the title

anyways, as far as i can tell, flechette has no drawbacks for any other guns. so don't ever use regular ammo unless you're fighting someone who's not worth the money for something better.

Posted by: JongWK Jan 2 2006, 08:54 PM

Dammit, I was lured by the title.

Posted by: Bullet Raven Jan 2 2006, 09:44 PM

QUOTE (JongWK)

Dammit, I was lured by the title.

this

Posted by: Dale Jan 2 2006, 10:16 PM

Where the hell's the boob question?

Posted by: Bullet Raven Jan 2 2006, 11:02 PM

Cyber boobs!

Posted by: Jaid Jan 2 2006, 11:19 PM

actually, i think there was a post about cyber boobs a while back.

specifically, i think it was talking about how IRL someone got a mp3 player or something in an implant

Posted by: Tsuul Jan 3 2006, 01:14 AM

With organ cloning and mass production advances wouldn't having a boob job to have So-and-so's boobs take on a whole new level.

As for the guns, I don't think flichete reduces the range in non-shotguns. But why are we talking about guns in a boob thread. ... Unless we are realy talking about Fem-bots. The only soft and cuddly cyberzombies.

Posted by: Cold-Dragon Jan 3 2006, 01:17 AM

would that be considered a cybergun? heheh...

Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 3 2006, 01:42 AM

You don't need to be a cyberzombie to fit a shotgun in a breast you just need a creative surgeon. Certainly, it would be a surprise to gropers.

Posted by: Cold-Dragon Jan 3 2006, 01:53 AM

"Hey baby, how are you *BANG!* Aouuu God my hand! You SHOT my *bleep*in hand off! What the *bleep*! *several more bleeps spread out randomly* My hand *and some more bleeps*

Posted by: Ryu Jan 3 2006, 09:37 AM

Austin Powers-style boob guns loaded with flechette? Range won´t matter, the opponents are lured closer first... like all of us into this thread...

*thinksaboutitandducksbehindcover*

Posted by: Ed_209a Jan 3 2006, 02:40 PM

*thinks about supercolliginated skingrafts and an internal neosilicone pump inside the chest leading to the smart polymer implants*

Any size, any shape, any texture, any time...

Man I need a GF...

Posted by: Mauler Jan 3 2006, 05:29 PM

Lol, such a small typo...
Sorry again guys.
Ok, here is another question: Since a gas mask grants immunity to inhalation toxins, why would I buy a more expensive Respirator that just adds dice to the test? Did I miss something?

Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 3 2006, 06:18 PM

The gas mask has an air resevoire and has a limited duration. Also it is bulkier and heavier. A human operating at high exertion is running through about 6 grams of Oxygen a minute, and that adds up really fast if it is your intent to keep all of it inside an enviro-sealed suit that you carry around with you. Humans don't absorb nearly 100% of the Oxygen they breathe in, so anything capable of keeping you going for even an hour of heavy activity is going to be quite heavy. And at that point, "heavy activity" might include "carrying the heavy Oxygen resevoire."

-Frank

Posted by: Bullet Raven Jan 3 2006, 06:25 PM

nevermind

Posted by: Jaid Jan 3 2006, 11:20 PM

also, in some places it's actually common to wear a respirator in public.

it's probably a lot less common to wear a gas mask everywhere you go.

plus gas masks are unpleasant to wear, or such is my understanding (having never actually worn one to be honest).

Posted by: warrior_allanon Jan 4 2006, 01:06 AM

gas masks are not all that bad to wear, (from experience), its a lot better than say puking your guts up, literally. the only suggestion i would give would be to not try and fire anything that you have to pull close to aim. their a real pain then. spray and pray weapons, pistols and shotguns are fine, but something like an XM-30 or a Barret would be a pain.

Posted by: Mauler Jan 4 2006, 01:20 AM

Thanks for all the help.
I especially like the thought that Gas Masks interfere with sight while Respirators do not... some food for thought there...
Here is another:
What happens if someone gets affected by the same toxin more than once in short succession? For example someone is hit twice by a Squirt Gun loaded with Narcoject that was fired in SA mode... What happens when the turn ends? Some kind of overdose effect? Or is affected just affected and that's it? How long until he can be affected again? Just asking for your input here...

Posted by: mfb Jan 4 2006, 01:23 AM

bleagh, gas masks suck, especially if they're old. there are internal leaks, so your lenses are constantly fogging up; your face sweats and creates pools wherever the mask clamps against your skin; you can't breathe as easily; old straps lose their elasticity, so you have to draw the damn mask painfully tight just to make sure there aren't external leaks; trying to get a drink requires a special attachment, the mouthpiece of which is constantly poking into your lip... i could go on, but suffice to say that i strongly disagree with warrior_allanon's assessment.

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jan 4 2006, 01:31 AM

I have to agree with mfb on the comfortability of gas masks, but I also agree with warrior_allanon in that it's better than puking your guts out.

Posted by: Darkness Jan 4 2006, 02:21 AM

QUOTE (Mauler)

What happens if someone gets affected by the same toxin more than once in short succession? For example someone is hit twice by a Squirt Gun loaded with Narcoject that was fired in SA mode... What happens when the turn ends? Some kind of overdose effect? Or is affected just affected and that's it? How long until he can be affected again? Just asking for your input here...

Well, on page 245 (Concentration), it is suggested to "increase the Power of the toxin as [the gamemaster] feels appropriate, as well as increasing the damage it causes, or its other effects by an appropriate amount".
Now what is an "appropriate amount"?

Damage-wise i would simply increase the Power of the toxin by 1 per extra dose taken after the first in the same Combat Round.

Posted by: mfb Jan 4 2006, 04:08 AM

when going on our final exercize in basic, i opted to just suck up (literally) the tear gas rather than bother with the damn mask.

Posted by: Jaid Jan 4 2006, 04:15 AM

for the record, when i said it was uncomfortable, i wasn't suggesting a reason someone wouldn't use one if they knew they were going to be facing some kind of unpleasant inhalation gas.

i was more pointing out why someone might prefer a respirator instead. simply put, you can be always wearing a respirator, and people might think it's a little odd, but probably won't think you're a terrorist about to gas bomb everything around you. people wear them to protect from pollution, for example.

Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 4 2006, 05:12 AM

Well, it depends on how old your respirator is, as well. A brand spanking new one might not attract too much attention, a smelly duck from WWI, on the other hand, would ruin social rolls.

Posted by: RunnerPaul Jan 4 2006, 07:45 AM

Which reminds me of a NSFW-ish website called http://www.ratemygasmask.com. Because some gas masks just look better than others.

Posted by: mfb Jan 4 2006, 07:49 AM

finally, an on-topic post!

Posted by: mintcar Jan 4 2006, 05:07 PM

Haha. It was on both topics I guess. Concidering the "contains nudity" warning.

mfb:

QUOTE

duh!

Posted by: Mauler Jan 10 2006, 09:42 AM

Platelet Factories do not reduce Stun Damage, right?

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 10 2006, 09:54 AM

That is not certain to say.

Posted by: Mauler Jan 10 2006, 01:04 PM

Hm...

What is the AP value of a Sniper Rifle loaded with APDS rounds? -4 or -7?

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 10 2006, 01:41 PM

The latter.

Posted by: Mauler Jan 10 2006, 02:11 PM

I see. Thanks. I just thought because in all the examples where flechette rules are applied (shotguns, fragmentation grenades etc.) the AP is replaced by +2 instead of added, it might work the same way with other ammo types. The difference might be the switch to a different armor type used to resist flechette and gel... or am I wrong there again?

Posted by: Azralon Jan 10 2006, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (Mauler)

Platelet Factories do not reduce Stun Damage, right?

Prior to SR4, only Physical.

In SR4:

"Platelet factories increase the body’s ability to handle damage by accelerating the production of platelets within bone marrow, thus lessening the trauma from large wounds and quickly stopping bleeding. Any time the user suffers 2 or more points of damage, the damage is instantly reduced by one point."

.... It just says "damage." This implies both Physical and Stun.

Also, depending upon your GM, it may or may not apply to drain and/or fading. Personally I regard damage, drain, and fading to be different animals that all have the same net result (filled in condition monitor boxes); otherwise the Bear and Dark King mentor spirits become a little too dramatic.

Posted by: Kerberos Jan 10 2006, 03:34 PM

On the other hand it says "wounds" and "bleeding" which IMO implies physical damage only.

Posted by: Darkness Jan 10 2006, 05:27 PM

If you have a hematoma you are practically bleeding, but you have no open wound. You may get those from a "treatment" with a blunt weapon.
Is it physical or Stun damage?

Posted by: Kerberos Jan 10 2006, 05:50 PM

QUOTE (Darkness)

If you have a hematoma you are practically bleeding, but you have no open wound. You may get those from a "treatment" with a blunt weapon.
Is it physical or Stun damage?

I had to look up hematoma, but as I understanf the definition I'd call that physical damage. Stun would be more along the lines of bruises.

Posted by: Azralon Jan 10 2006, 06:06 PM

You unfortunately can't really restrict all Stun damage to blunt trauma and all Physical to lacerations, but those remain good guidelines. For example, I've taken a punch (Stun?) or two before that resulted in a good deal of bleeding (Physical?). Broken bones from unarmed combat are much the same thing.

For a long-and-ultimately-fruitless debate over which real world injuries would be Stun and which would be Physical, search these forums for stuff about the Lightning Bolt spell.

So, in the spirit of abstract rules for sake of simplicity, they probably just said "Eh, platelet factory can apply to all damage."

Posted by: Space Ghost Jan 11 2006, 01:05 AM

i think most blunt weapons do physical now. Just the sap and punches do stun.

Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 11 2006, 06:43 AM

I'd going to go out on a limb and say that if Platelet factories reduce damage caused by a manabolt then they'll also reduce damage caused by drain. Of course, I interperate drain not as condition mointer boxes filled for no apparent reason but as raw mana ripping your body apart from the inside as you struggle to channel it into a useful spell. Stun drain may cause bruises, headaches, bleeding from eyes, nose, and mouth, ect. Physical drain causes important organs to tear and rupture, among other things. Basicly, I interperate it to be like stigmata, real wounds caused by magic. Actual cases of sitgmata and similar phenomona are probably early magicians who dont know how to handle drain.

Posted by: Liper Jan 11 2006, 09:33 AM

I always view platel factories as only healing physical damage.

Posted by: nick012000 Jan 11 2006, 11:29 AM

QUOTE (hyzmarca)

I know in one of the novels there was a Catholic preist who didn't know he was awakened, and sacrificed himself in order to summon an uber blood spirit that took the form of Jesus in the second coming. He spontaneously manifested stigmata, which were radiating lots of heat (and, presumably, magic).

It then proceeded to beat up the Azzie blood spirit that was threatening said preist and his Yucatan rebel allies in a very spectacular fashion.

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 11 2006, 04:57 PM

Sometimes, I wonder what exactly some of the fiction writers smoke.

Posted by: ogbendog Jan 11 2006, 05:46 PM

QUOTE (Mauler)

man, I had no idea they changed that in the errats.

But here's a qustion, every inhalation gas (except nause) is also contact. So all a gas mask gives you is immunity to nausea gas. I assume you are fully effected by the other gases?

for that matter, do you still get the dice from a respirator against CS? I know from my real world experience, CS does effect on contact, but the effects are much, much stronger if it gets in your lungs, nose, eyes, etc.

I'd be temped to say for dual vector cases, that the Power of the gas is 1/2ed if you have a gas mask (you are immune to the inhalation 1/2 of the attack) and with a respirator, the extra dice from it can only reduce the power by up to 1/2

Posted by: Magus Jan 11 2006, 06:13 PM

All that CS gas does on the skin is tingle, it will burn a little if you are sweating, but it is nothing like when it hits your eyes,nose.throat or lungs, I have hardly even slowed down running through a CS field with my P-Mask on in Ft. Bragg. Plus if you have any type of armor clothing on as well as a P-mask CS gas will not even effect you at all. Nerve agent is another matter if the gas gets through your mask you are screwed. Liguid agent on your skin is bad, but gaseous nerve agent I do not believe can effect you via the contact vector.

Posted by: ogbendog Jan 11 2006, 07:25 PM

maybe by 2070 the tear gas is better?

in any case, the books lists both vectrors, but doesn't address what happnes if you protect only one.

Posted by: Darkness Jan 11 2006, 08:46 PM

If it can get you by both vectors, and you protect only one, the other one is more than enough that you are affected.

Posted by: mfb Jan 11 2006, 09:16 PM

there's a pretty big difference beween something that feels like a sunburn and something that makes you cough until you puke.

Posted by: Darkness Jan 11 2006, 09:36 PM

QUOTE (mfb @ Jan 11 2006, 11:16 PM)

there's a pretty big difference beween something that feels like a sunburn and something that makes you cough until you puke.

While that may be true for RL CS gas, SR4 CS gas does this to you:

QUOTE (SR4 @ p.246, CS/Tear Gas)

It also stimulates a physiological panic response: increased heart rate, shortness of breath, and so forth. Washing thoroughly with soap and water can remove CS from the victim’s skin, thus ending the duration of the nausea
prematurely.

And that no matter the vector used. That's fine enough for me.

Posted by: Fix-it Jan 11 2006, 09:42 PM

you could do that with tailored pheromones easily enough. panic spreads from person to person that way.

Posted by: Magus Jan 11 2006, 09:51 PM

CS gas is the hyped version of tear gas. I have had both and believe Tear gas is nothing. CS makes your skin have a cold tingling burn Yes it will make you choke and have nasuea IF YOU CAN SMELL OR TASTE it. So if you are wearing a P-mask CS gas will only tingle and burn like an overdose of Icy Hot rub. Now if you do not wash it off and take off your mask don't rub your eyes or take a piss. Ouch!! But a long sleeve shirt will block all contact form of CS as well so the runners underwear will protect your skin from CS exposure but you still have to wash it.

Posted by: ogbendog Jan 11 2006, 10:24 PM

QUOTE (Darkness)

If it can get you by both vectors, and you protect only one, the other one is more than enough that you are affected.

but what if you have a bonus with one vector, like a respirator, or the chemical protection?

is your bonus basically the weaker of the two?

Posted by: Darkness Jan 11 2006, 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Magus @ Jan 11 2006, 11:51 PM)

Again, i agree for RL CS gas. In SR4 CS gas seems to be stronger.

QUOTE (ogbendog)

but what if you have a bonus with one vector, like a respirator, or the chemical protection?

is your bonus basically the weaker of the two?

I assume, yes. Normaly that's the way such things are handled.

Posted by: Mauler Jan 16 2006, 12:48 PM

Some more quick ones... Which weapons use the Carbine specialization? The XM30 Carbine configuration I would think... what about the AK-97 Carbine... it is listed under SMGs, which is a different specialization...
Also, does the High Pain Tolerance quality let you ignore one box or two boxes per Rating? The description is a bit confusing...

Posted by: Darkness Jan 16 2006, 02:09 PM

For the High Pain Tolerance:
It's one box / Rating.
To put the example in the description in a brighter light: Normally a character takes a -1 Dice Pool Modifier /3 boxes of damage. With a Rating of 2, he would take the first -1 at (3+2=)5 boxes. Thus, he has no modifier if he takes "only" 4 boxes of damage.

Posted by: Mauler Jan 16 2006, 02:30 PM

Thanks for clearing that up.
While I'm at it, what's the range of a Fichetti Pain Inducer?

Posted by: Mauler Jan 18 2006, 10:11 PM

Something else just came up... maybe you guys can help me out.
Some Negative Qualities grant extra bonus points if the character in question is a Technomancer or Hacker... Now, determining if a character is a Technomancer is easy enough, but a Hacker...
Since everyone can learn the Cracking Skills and buy the appropriate equipment, where do you draw the line? How specialized do you have to be to count as a Hacker?
I would love to have some input on this one, because winging it everytime a new character is generated might produce some unfair results in the long run.
I was thinking maybe the Cracking Group at 3 or better or any single Cracking Group Skill at 4 or better might be qualification enough?
What do you think?

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 18 2006, 10:13 PM

That sounds like a pretty good rule to me.
And I have no idea what the range on the pain inducer is.

Posted by: Azralon Jan 18 2006, 10:30 PM

QUOTE (Mauler)

Now, determining if a character is a Technomancer is easy enough, but a Hacker...

This one's been around since the game was released, and so far there's no official clarification (that I'm aware of).

My group simplified the matter by dropping the "if you're a hacker" version altogether. Everyone has the flat non-hacker cost.