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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ 4th to 6th world

Posted by: Crimson Jack Oct 2 2003, 10:46 PM

This may be a basic question, but I don't know the answer to it. How much time has passed since the end of the 4th world and the beginning of the 6th (which we love so much)? I have no clue. Did the 4th world end before the beginning of our known history or what? Any help will help me out with some game details I'm working out right now. Thanks!

Posted by: danbot37 Oct 2 2003, 10:51 PM

yeah, and does a fifth world fit it anywhere? (excuse my ignorance if this seems like a dumb question)

Posted by: Ancient History Oct 2 2003, 10:52 PM

The Fourth World ended...lesse now...about 3,000 BC.

[/edit] The Timeline...

**/* Age of the Dark One
**)* Age of Dragons
*(** Dark Age (downcycle)
**)* Age of Legend [Earthdawn, 4th World]
*(** Fifth World (downcycle)
**)* Sixth World [SR]

Posted by: Large Mike Oct 2 2003, 10:55 PM

Before the beginning of known history. Long, long ago. So long ago the pizza would definatly be free.

And the Fifth World is out current, out of game, mundane world.

Posted by: danbot37 Oct 2 2003, 10:58 PM

kinda figured... but whats the "dark one"

Posted by: Arcanum V Oct 2 2003, 10:58 PM

To whatever extent the Mayan Long Count factors into this. . .

23,618 B.C. — Mayan First World begins.
18,492 B.C. — Mayan Second World begins.
13,366 B.C. — Mayan Third World begins.
8240 B.C. — Mayan Fourth World begins.
August 11, 3114 B.C. — Mayan Long Count begins a new 5,126 year (1,872,000 days) cycle, the Fifth World.
December 24, 2012 — Mayan Sixth World begins.

Posted by: Ancient History Oct 2 2003, 10:59 PM

You see what I have to compete with!?

Posted by: Kanada Ten Oct 2 2003, 11:01 PM

The Mayan calender says that the Great Cycle -lasting 1,872,000 days- is equivalent to 5,125.36 years.

This is the length of the fifth world, IMO & IIRC. The fifth world (today IRL) is the period where the mana or magic levels are at there lowest -the negative portion of a http://www.physik.rwth-aachen.de/~hebbeker/lectures/ph1_0102/wave.gif if you will. The Foruth world ended aparently before the fall of magic because of Threarn (the Evil Empire) invervention. But who knows. Just say 3112 BC to 2012 AD.

Posted by: Crimson Jack Oct 2 2003, 11:06 PM

Thanks. This information helps tremendously!!

Posted by: Kanada Ten Oct 2 2003, 11:25 PM

QUOTE (danbot37)

kinda figured... but whats the "dark one"

According to dragon myth, the creator of all things, the maker of the first dragon, the dark one... the Enemy, the Horror: http://www.netherworlds.de/pix/edoriginal/verjigorm.jpg.

I just call him granddaddy or pappy.

Posted by: Arcanum V Oct 2 2003, 11:27 PM

QUOTE (Ancient History @ Oct 2 2003, 05:59 PM)

You see what I have to compete with!?

If it makes you feel better, the first place I looked for an answer was your site. I expected to find a comprehensive Earthdawn-Shadowrun timeline.

As a footnote to that, "Prehistory Arcanum" should be "Arcana." You have several facts listed there, so it needs to be plural.

Posted by: Ancient History Oct 2 2003, 11:29 PM

awww....
I've yet to attempt that. Murky waters.

[/edit] Y'see, the times of the Ages does not quite correspond tae the datum given. I think there were more than six Ages, and that perhaps some have been lost to history and myth.

Posted by: Abstruse Oct 3 2003, 12:03 AM

And BTW, the date of the Awakening was Decenber 24, 2011...not 2012. Marked by the date Ryomyo popped out of Mt. Fuji. Don't know which is wrong though -- Arcanum or FASA's versions of the long count -- but that's when it was.

BTW, there's a typo in one of the sidebars in Dot6W that says some dragon woke up in September of 2011 when it says in the text that he woke up in 2012.

The Abstruse One

Posted by: Arcanum V Oct 3 2003, 12:21 AM

QUOTE (Ancient History)

[/edit] Y'see, the times of the Ages does not quite correspond tae the datum given. I think there were more than six Ages, and that perhaps some have been lost to history and myth.

Were I to follow Shadowrun's canon with any devotion, this is where I'd lean too. Despite being more faithful to the Mayan Long Count math, ending the Fourth World in 3114 B.C. creates a number of problems with integrating the fictional archaelogical world of Earthdawn with the real archaeological data about the fourth millenium B.C. To allow for more time for loss and a further removal from reality, I'd set the Earthdawn world at least before 9550 B.C. (Plato's date for the destruction of Atlantis), and probably even further back.

I'd probably set the end of the Fourth World around 30,000 B.C. The end of the Fourth World would be a kind of "reset" button on cultural development, and it's at about that time that human cultural development (as we know it now nonfictionally) starts to develop among anatomically modern humans. The ice age could explain the lack of Earthdawn-era artifacts, and humanity would essentially start from scratch in a magic-free world.

Posted by: Arcanum V Oct 3 2003, 12:26 AM

QUOTE (Abstruse @ Oct 2 2003, 07:03 PM)

According to every non-Shadowrun, nonfictional account of the real world Mayan system that I've ever seen, the Mayan Long Count ends in 2012. If measured against the real world, Shadowrun is wrong. In my own very non-canonical game, I just moved the Awakening one year to synchronize the two dates.

However, since Shadowrun is not our world, the possibility exists that the Maya of Shadowrun have a different Long Count that actually ends in 2011 and correctly measures some aspect of the mana cycle.

Posted by: Raén Oct 3 2003, 10:40 AM

4th World ends the August 12, 3113 BC. If I remember correctly, the info comes from Ehran the Scribe. So, if we consider every cycle has the same length, we could say the last scourge begins in 6059 BC and ends in 5647 BC.

Posted by: Raén Oct 3 2003, 10:45 AM

For the dates, you see Mayan calendar is wrong for 1 year, for the end of the 4th World like for the beginning of the Sixth. And, in Tir Tairngire, Dunkelzahn said the mayan was more accurate than many others, but not perfect.

Posted by: Ancient History Oct 3 2003, 01:24 PM

Raen, I think your math is off a bit...

If the 4th world ended in 3110 BC or so, that would make the end of the Scourge about...5410 BC, and the beginning of the Scourge 6000 BC or so, and the beginning of the Upcycle would have been 8110 BC, give or take however many centuries the Theran EMpire may have lasted.

Posted by: Raén Oct 4 2003, 11:21 AM

For the end of the 4th world, the info is in "Humans and the cycle of magic": Atlantis (Thera) sank on August 12, 3113BC.

For the scourge dates, I've found them some years ago, so I don't remember exactly how I found them, but I'll look at it. You're right, it's not by using the same length...
We know for sure the Scourge lasted 412 years.