Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 13 2006, 02:45 AM

This first one isn't an idea for a campaign so much as one for a side quest. It'll be two-parted. It'll be pretty much offhand; your fixer will tell you that there's a bounty out for people with bioware implants.

One of the types will be anyone with specific cosmetic implants, such as metabolism boosters (stay thin forever), elastin-producing glands, and vat-grown elf ears. Stuff like that. The employer will say nothing of who has these; the runners will have to do legwork. Since this is an optional, repeatable run, other runners will be going after the bounty. Some of them will succeed and the bounty will decrease gradually into nothing. I'll roll dice every week and count the number of successes; the underworld dice pool increases every week. With each success, there'll be a vain rich person caught and guinea-pigged. Also, if the runners get the paydata on how these processes actually work, they'll be paid more than if they caught 50 of these people. It'll be pretty hard to get into the hospital for that, though.

The other type will be people who were vatgrown from birth with inborn bioware that never lost essence for their bioware, with things such as synaptic accelerators and cat eyes. The employer will name one specific person, a simsense star for Renraku who's also probably the most capable Red Samurai in existence. He's more valuable to them as a simsense star than as a tactician, since being able to feel the rush of being 50 stronger than you actually are and being able to see and smell things you couldn't is big business, and they already have a dearth of guards. He's actually 5 years old and was born physically mature. The show will be Champion of Japanese Economic Superiority, or "Supeliolity."

As it turns out, the Red Samurai wants out of Renraku and has cut a deal with the runners' employers to give them the source data for the super-soldier project in return for what really amounts to a high-level extraction. He'll be paid much more than the runners for the paydata, which is fair, since they don't have to reverse-engineer paydata, and it's pretty much impossible to reverse-engineer someone's birthing process from his living body.

Note: I'm not making fun of the Japanese with that "supeliolity;" the announcer's accent will be just for show. His real English will be perfect, which will be evident when they make it to the actual set.

Posted by: Ragna Jan 13 2006, 03:54 AM

I dont know what to say, seriously....

Posted by: Gothic Rose Jan 13 2006, 04:26 AM

...I'm almost afraid to ask, but why would a Johnson put a bounty out on people with elf ears? What possible economic gain could this have for his company?

And if it's not a Johnson, then who/why/how? I mean, who's going to finance such a bounty.

And why?

It...um...I'm just trying to understand.

The Renraku Super Soldier idea isn't bad, although you should have the person be older than that - and have magic been involved in the process of creating him.

Posted by: Critias Jan 13 2006, 04:41 AM

Whew. I'm bitin' my tongue. Somehow.

Posted by: Cynic project Jan 13 2006, 05:49 AM

At least he isn't as bad as Blackie.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 13 2006, 02:43 PM

At least there are two ideas in one thread.
So Emo. As for idea 1, we're all wondering why. It's a good idea, if it makes sense. Without a justification and a reasonable explanation, you lose the verissimilitude of reality and that hurts your players immersion into the campaign.

As for the second one, it sounds like a pretty cool idea. I think that giving the super-soldier reduced essence loss as opposed to no essence loss for their "inherent" bioware is slightly more in line with SR canon. SOTA '63 had some guidelines for genetech enhancements like that. Basically, they suggested that pre-birth stuff was cheaper, financially. IIRC, of course. You could also have it all be "deltaware" in terms of essence loss.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 13 2006, 04:40 PM

Both bounties will be made by the independent Deltaware clinic in the Pueblo Corporate Council and the first part will be because they want to get into bleeding-edge cosmetic surgery. Elf ears for humans will be the least of it. There'll also be testosterone glands for males and augmented mammaries for women. Silicon is obsolete for almost all purposes of cosmetics. They figure they can reverse engineer that stuff from live bodies easily enough.

The second part will be impossible to reverse-engineer, since that bioware's pre-birth and it's much more complicated. They cut a deal with the super-soldier bioware-enhanced phys-adept who'll help you in his own extraction. The deltaware clinic has an agreement with him to pay for an extraction, the "bounty" on his head, if he hacks the databases and gives them the actual formulas. His keeper will be an insane toxic shaman who views his keeper-keepie relationship as a personal obession. That means he won't call for backup, but he'll also summon a force 10 toxic spirit. Also, there'll be a drone power suit that Renraku will call to take down the runners. It'll have a Battle Angel Alita-esque power fist that'll take a minute and the entire suit's power systems to charge up and cool down from fully. It'll be awesome, and if there was ever a time to play "Exile" by Chemlab, that was it.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 13 2006, 04:46 PM

Eh, okay. So they're trying to capture people that have deltaware cosmetic surgery, in order to figure out how to do delta grade cosmetic surgery themselves.
1) You're going to be dealing with a VERY rich crowd, here. If someone's paying for a delta-grade boob-job, they're probably pretty rich, powerful, and famous.
2) If there's a blanket bounty out for people with cosmetic surgery, you'd better believe the news is going to be all over that. One job for one group of runners can be kept secret, but a city-wide bounty? Word is going to get out. And it's not like it's a bounty on devil rats, or even ghouls. It's rich people! Media frenzy. (hmmm, I like that idea)

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 13 2006, 04:49 PM

They'll work through the BEST fixers. Remember that fixers can sell anonymity as well as connection.

Posted by: nezumi Jan 13 2006, 04:50 PM

So for the first one, there's a black delta ware clinic running, and they are reusing bioware? You know that used bioware is never cultured and used cyberware is never above alpha-grade, so there's no reason for it to be a delta clinic.

I like the idea behind the second one (well, the basic plot). I'm hesitant to make him the 'best' simsense star, just for fear of making another Ryan Mercury, but the extraction part makes sense. The guy is part of a new wave of vatgrown people, which opens up a whole new chapter in Shadowrun (remember, no one else has managed to grow someone to adulthood in a vat like that, that I'm aware of). There's no question that a man who had no child-hood, no parents, really no background, might feel he needs to be free and discover himself. I also would expect he'd prefer someone else take the responsibility so if the extraction fails, it doesn't come down on HIS head, he'd still have a chance for a second escape.

Selling himself to another company that wants to find out how he works might be a little naive, but the guy never really 'grew up'. Maybe he is naive.

I'd recommend thinking longer about the management decisions behind his creation. This is a completely new technology to make a brand of super soldiers the world has never seen before. Who would you make them for? Where would you let them go? Would it be wise to make one into a simsense star? Wouldn't that attract unwanted attention? Would it be wise to even give them any freedom at all, when you aren't sure how mentally stable they are (and they are super soldiers, after all).

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 13 2006, 04:53 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 13 2006, 05:00 PM

He's the result of maybe 1000 trial runs. He's the only survivor, and remember, Renraku is both a media whore and an arms manufacturer. They want tol draw attention to him, and he's pretty much most valuable to them as a simsense star and a living showcase of SOTA arms. His show is popular because all the weapons in it are real. When the autosoft power armor comes in to take him and the runners down, he'll turn to you and say, "Aww... I was going to pilot that next episode!"

And he's not selling himself; he has a portable hard drive that has the formulas on it. He himself is useless to the clinic, since his bioware is pretty much impossible to reverse-engineer.

As for the Ryan Mercury part, he'll basically be a powerful street sam/phys adept. He's smart and better trained than any three Tir Ghosts put together, but he won't know or be able to do everything. If the street sam/gunslinger adept and party mage were to try to kill him, he'd die very quickly. Remember, skill and stat caps.

Also, they're not reusing bioware; they're reverse-engineering it, figuring out from residual DNA and other such stuff how to actually make it themselves. That's why having the specs on the equipment will negate the per-human bounty.

Posted by: Azralon Jan 13 2006, 05:13 PM

Emo, I appreciate that you're dedicating a singular thread to your campaign ideas.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 13 2006, 05:34 PM

Instead of spreading it around, like, 5 or more other threads? Also, I'm hoping that the runners won't go after more than 2 people before they claim the paydata.

Posted by: nezumi Jan 13 2006, 06:50 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 13 2006, 07:30 PM

He'll have wired his portable hard drive to a biomonitor; he goes kaput, hard drive goes boom. The data is in an off-line server, so only he has had enough access to his past. He's not filming simsense all the time; he's also training and researching military theory constantly, running transmutations and the like. Renraku also considers it necessary that he knows his own biology well enough to use his abilities to the fullest.

He's also being paid about 5 times what the runners are being paid for their extraction, since he's giving the actual data. The runners can negotiate as much as they want, but the Genewar Samurai isn't stupid, and will point out repeatedly that they won't get paid even for their extraction run if he calls their bluff and they do whatever they threaten to do for a bigger cut.

His physical-adept powers will be pure chance, and he'll be the only one who knows about them, besides his keeper, who knows full well that his keepie has seen him astrally projecting from time to time.

As for making a production run of people like him, Renraku isn't exactly flush with cash after losing its munchkined-out Immortal Elf technology, the Arcology, and lots of company funds during the Novatech IPO. He cost about 50 million nuyen, not counting billions in research and development, so their private clone army is now only a pipe dream. His only real cost-effective use on the battlefield for customers is as a general, with his augmented intelligence and fast response, and, well, as a simsense star. There aren't enough customers to have a production run of his kind even for client work. Like with the Arcology, his very existence has turned out to be a PR blitz, not something that actually helps productivity.

And yes, Renraku WILL look for him, which is why he's willing to risk it with the world's premier cyberware clinic and soon-to-be premier bioware clinic owing him a favor. He's counting on their being able to make him look completely different from what he did before, which they will manage easily. The Pueblo Corporate Council probably won't tolerate a Renraku military intrusion on their borders, and they probably aren't concerned enough about their relationship to Renraku to make a potentially difficult arrest or to piss off one of their most high-profile businesses.

Building people out of embryos will be out of the question, since someone built from scratch our little Genwar Samurai will be continue to be costly. Their real payoff will come from using that technology to make super-cultured bioware that will have half the essence cost of cultured bioware. The deltaware clinic will try to reverse-engineer a way to build a sort of delta-cultured bioware, which will be insanely awesome. The runners can expect that to go on the market within a year. That's IF they're ever able to afford it.

As for the cultured cosmetic bioware, the people will normally be very well guarded, but the runners will be relying on the fact that the human element in every defense is always the weakest. The bored socialite will do her best to avoid the bodyguards/private prison wardens that her husband has watching over her. The corporate executive will try to avoid being seen by anyone on the way to his mistress, and he rightfully doesn't trust his bodyguards not to be bribed into opening up. Etc. etc.

The cosmetic bioware clinic, of course, will be really well guarded, which is why a data run will be very well compensated.

Posted by: stevebugge Jan 13 2006, 07:50 PM

I think on the first one that before you run it you should take the time to read about the Lindberg Kidnapping, just to get an idea of the sort of media frenzy it caused. And that was in the early 20th century before instant communication. Kidnapping the rich and famous in 2070 without it being noticed within a few microseconds is going to be extremely difficult at best. If word got out there was a bounty on highend cosmetic jobs then a number of things will happen. The rich will higher a lot of extra security (I'd love to be a bodyguard in your city, I could name my price and get it) they will demand a massive investigation by whatever corp holds the law enforcement contract, and finally they may have the clout to take their case to the Corporate Court as well, especially once all of the well paid investigators start turning up evidence (which is a case of when not if, no matter how good the fixers are)

Posted by: nezumi Jan 13 2006, 08:21 PM

Posted by: mfb Jan 13 2006, 08:28 PM

the deltaware clinic thing just plain doesn't work. at the deltaware level, churning out elf ears and bigger tits isn't even on the menu you hand your clientele--that's betaware clinic stuff, at best. moreover, there's no way a deltaware clinic--or anybody without some horrible sociopathic agenda--is going to pay for chopped-off ears instead of paying for a datasteal. the datasteal might be slightly more expensive in the short term, but in the long term, you won't have thousands of bereaved friends and relatives howling for your blood. that sort of thing creates publicity, and publicity is something deltaware clinics want to avoid. after all, there are only a handful of deltaware clinics in the entire word, each one in cutthroat competition with the rest. you think one corp won't blow the hell out of another corp's deltaware clinic, given half a chance? especially if it's easy to find?

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 13 2006, 10:32 PM

Maybe change it from cosmetic deltaware to delta grade brainware. You're still going to be targeting the rich and powerful, but it makes more sense. Also, yeah, have the media go crazy. Have Lone Star go nuts cracking down on the whole city. Make it a secondary focus of the entire campaign. THAT would be cool.

As for superdude, I have also seen campaigns where the GM has a superdude. It's fun for the GM. Not for anybody else. I'm sure you're not planning to do that. I'm sure you're planning to give the characters a chance to do stuff, too, but can you be positive your characters will see things the way you do? How 'bout this for an inspiration: Ever see the TV show Firefly, or the movie Serenity? There's this character, a girl named River. She's sort of a superdudette. Awesome martial arts, amazing markswoman, mental powers, she's awesome. The reason she doesn't outshine the rest of the cast is that she's nuttier than a fruitcake. The evil government cut into her mind so many times in creating her that she's severely insane. Most of the time she's just muttering cryptic phrases to herself and peeling the labels off cans, and even though she has super abilities and everyone wants her, she doesn't contribute a whole lot to the things they do most of the time, so the rest of the cast isn't outshined. Now take this 5 year old super soldier sim star. Holy crap, if that isn't a recipie for severe emotional problems, I don't know what is. He's a child diva in the body of a tank. Sure, sometimes he kicks ass, like maybe when he gets his special drugs, or maybe just whenever, but the rest of the time he's watching TV, or crying because he has no parents, or just off getting himself into trouble. What I'm saying is, there are ways to make him be dangerous and sought by corps without making him better than the PCs. Sure they could kill him if they ganged up on him, that's not the point, as it is he's still better and cooler than any of them, and that's not good.
As always, YMMV.

Posted by: nick012000 Jan 14 2006, 06:14 AM

Also, cosmetic surgery costs no Essence, so Deltaware cosmetics are redundant- a severe waste of money for all concerned.

Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 14 2006, 09:00 AM

Deltaware does have the advantage of being much more difficult to detect, a pluss for cosmetic surgery. The last a wealthy socialite wants is to have everyone talk about her 5 stuffer shack tits behind her back. Likewise, when leonization fails to restore Bill Gates's hair he doesn't want a transplant that looks like someone grabbed a badger by the tail, beat it to death, and sewed it onto his scalp.

No, the rich want to look as natural as possible except for their shiny orihalcum-plated jewel-encrusted datajacks.

Posted by: Kerberos Jan 14 2006, 09:21 AM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 14 2006, 10:11 AM

I won't make him THAT much more powerful than the PC's. I'm assuming he's got a specialization in, like, 2-3 skills, which won't be that much higher than the PC's, assuming they haven't maxed out most of the skills he's got maxed out. The skill and stats caps, remember, aren't that high. He'll have been made before the Matrix Crash 2.0.

The Arcology shutdown really wasn't that big of a deal for the company as a whole; losing lots of its senior management and company money on a badly timed stock sale is. They envisioned a genome army, and they would have had it, if they kept their shit together. No one without an insane cross-culture social engineering agenda would pay for that crap. The Champion of Japanese Economic Supeliolity will be a successful prototype of a failed product line, useful now primarily as a simsense star.

You have to realize how I'm playing Renraku in my game; it'll be the mad scientist corp. It has Red Samurai and an arcology where it's completely redundant to have one. They're the insane social engineers of the world, and everything they do for business is a lead up to that. None of the other companies seems to be that way, besides maybe Yamatetsu, which is more open about their transhumanist agenda and doesn't seem to want to own the world that badly. Renraku's media whoredom is a symptom of a deeper need to force their ideology on their world.

As for how he'll guarantee his own safety from the runners and the securing of the paydata, I've got to think on that.

Posted by: Critias Jan 14 2006, 11:38 AM

If you've already got your madcap mind made up, why are you asking for opinions/advice? Play your super dude, and be happy.

Posted by: PlatonicPimp Jan 14 2006, 04:18 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 14 2006, 07:53 PM

Hmmm... But the elf-ears aren't real elf ears, they were just an example of cosmetic bioware. They're just cloned ears manipulated to become elf ear-ish. There are even cloned metahuman eyes that can see in the dark. The deltaware wants to learn to make that. And I'm referring to the deltaware clinic set up by Fuchi, on of the two that it had, that went independent in the Pueblo Corporate Council and services everyone with enough money. This can be found on page 33-34 in System Failure. It's independent, and wants to expand into a new market, and this seems the most efficient way of bypassing years of R&D without having the specs, which are much harder to get and much more valuable. They of course will pay much money for them.

As for the genewar soldier, he's born out of a normal zygote. He just hasn't been conscious until about 5-6 years ago. His basic genotype was heavily modified, and most of his implants are from stem cells from brother/sister embryos that were themselves modified for the task. This means that you could take a spinal tap and a blood sample and get two completely different genomes. So he still has essence and his body functions together, since even thought he genes are modified to fit different functions, they're still from his own flesh and blood, so to speak.

Posted by: mfb Jan 14 2006, 08:05 PM

dude, no deltaware clinic needs to steal designs for something that is already on the market. and even if they did, it would be cheaper to just send someone in to get elf ears, cat's eyes, and whatever else they want, and reverse-engineer it from there. it would be completely insane for a freakin' delta clinic to engage in serial murder.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 14 2006, 08:07 PM

Posted by: Mr.Platinum Jan 14 2006, 08:42 PM

getting parts to reverse engineer! just go to the Tomanous Mang!


Why is it i visulalize all Tamanous as mexican/latin gangesters?

Posted by: Mr.Platinum Jan 14 2006, 08:43 PM

and why is i have 3 spellings of Tamanous?

Posted by: PlatonicPimp Jan 14 2006, 09:08 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 14 2006, 11:53 PM

But if he has no soul, how can he want freedom?

Posted by: nick012000 Jan 15 2006, 04:49 AM

Just because he has no sould doesn't mean he isn't sentient. It just means magic doesn't work all that well on him.

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Jan 15 2006, 05:30 AM

Posted by: nick012000 Jan 15 2006, 05:53 AM

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Jan 15 2006, 06:04 AM

I have a theroy on that one:

According to some of the SB's , there were some strange and gruesome murders that took place in that area up until '56 for a little over a year. Then they jsut stopped. At about the same time, the Tir military sealed off the lake. For a while, the area was a high magic area, then became a mana ebb some time around 63.

Now 56 IIRC was when Aina used blood magic over Crater lake to destroy the horror Ysgrathe. He let himself be destroyed, because he wanted her to use heavy blood magic to do it, to make another mana spike in a high mana area.

My theory is that there was a horror operation in the area until that blood magic went off. There's a locus in the lake there, and I think that spell activated it somehow. WHat I think is happening is that it's now draining the ambient magic in the area, like a massive battery charging up. That would explain why the horror left too, assuming there was one and it wasn't something completely unrelated. The lower mana wasn't enough to sustain it.

I've also been wondering why the loci so far have all been found in lakes. There one in San Antonio area (The Dragon Heart Trilogy) was in a lake. I believe there's one in Lake Baykal, which, apparently according to some sourcebook , syas that it's directly opposie creater lake on the globe. And of course the one in Crater lake it's self. Interesting I think. Coincidence? who knows *cue mysterious music*

Posted by: nick012000 Jan 15 2006, 08:16 AM

From what I can tell from Google Earth, directly opposite Lake Baikal is a random point in the South Pacific.

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Jan 15 2006, 10:40 AM

I'll see if I can find my source on that then. I'd thought I had seen it in SoA, but I guess that can be wrong of course.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 15 2006, 08:34 PM

There's no way Lake Baikal is opposite Crater Lake; they're both in the Northern Hemisphere!

Posted by: Mr.Platinum Jan 15 2006, 08:42 PM

I have to sit down and read this whole thread and see what unbeleivable idea Emo came up with.

Posted by: Azralon Jan 16 2006, 05:17 PM

Posted by: Grinder Jan 16 2006, 06:01 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 17 2006, 05:19 PM

I've also got another idea for a campaign. My college is hosting a set of one-shot RPG campaigns, and I'm having one where the players don't know each other beforehand. They live in the same slum apartment block. It's run by a local gang, which, for the most part, lives in the basement, except for the leaders, who live higher up. It gets attacked at the beginning of the game by a rival gang. There's a lot of shooting, some of it hopefully by the runner team. It ends when a really nice car drives away and the gang leader tells his people to stop shooting, or they'll hit the car.

The resident leader notices that the runners, of all the people on his side shooting, either shot best or didn't run away. Which, of course, is a plus. He wants to hire them to recover the car; his older brother, a huge-ass troll, is the actual gang leader, and he's meeting with Yakuza to secure long term employment for his gang as hit men, "protection," and the like. He'll be back in a few days, and in a week is the big unofficial street race, which his gang would have won if it didn't have its car stolen. A Yakuza representative will be watching the race, and if his older brother finds the car stolen on his little brother's watch, facial mutilation is the best that the younger brother could hope for. He's willing to give the runner team his share of the next month's BTL profits in exchange for their help in the matter. It also helps that the runners can hold him to his promise by threatening to tell the older brother. Who, I might remind you, is a big-ass troll.

When they bypass security and get the actual car, they find that the rival gang is run by a female free mantis spirit. She's VERY powerful. About force 9. One of the pre-made characters will actually have "piss off insect spirits" as a flaw and as a result will specialize in banishing them.

Question: Would she be way too powerful for 400 BP characters? Would they be able to even hurt her?

Also, I have a character idea. His "name" will be Agira Tetsumi. He's a former ninja who was kicked out of his clan, or at least convinced to leave, by jealous peers who cited his usage of pistols as evidence of his dishonor. He's a master of disguise and wears a different one every time he meets a Johnson. He maxed out his stealth and social skill groups and is adept at dual-wielding pistols and the katana. He's also an adept with two levels in improved reflexes, two in combat sense, and two in kinesics. He'll be the party's face and Solid Snake. He knows a Yakuza oyabun like a friend and gets his equipment from a resigned Red Samurai.

His particular quirk will be that he doesn't feel much of anything. When asked about fear, he would say, "Not much of anything scares me. Or, for that matter, elicits an emotional response. That bothers me. Sometimes, at least, like when a puppy dies in front of my eyes or something."

What do you think of him?

Posted by: Critias Jan 17 2006, 06:30 PM

Watch a lot of action flicks, don'tcha?

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 17 2006, 07:00 PM

Posted by: stevebugge Jan 17 2006, 07:02 PM

Posted by: Kleaner Jan 17 2006, 07:03 PM

400 BP characters don't usually live in slums. If you want to do a street campaign, you might want to consider lowering your starting BP, and what your gear your players will have access to.

Posted by: Azralon Jan 17 2006, 07:06 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 17 2006, 07:10 PM

Oh... that makes sense... Well, his rivals won't be quite as good as he is, but the pretend-senile sensei is, like, omnipotent. The only reason that the rivals stopped short of trying to be sensei is because they're too self-serving and frightened to challenge him. And his contacts outside of the dojo could care less about his dishonour; he gets the job done. The whole "kicked out of the dojo" thing was an excuse for him to go shadowrunning. And are 400 BP characters powerful enough to take on free mantids?

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 17 2006, 07:15 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 18 2006, 01:42 AM

How do I make Agira Tetsumi less action-movie? And do you have any suggestions for names that aren't taken from the Sega Shadowrun game?

How do you say "Shadow of many faces" in Japanese? I have lots of Japanese majors as friends, but I'm lazy. I was thinking of adding "Kage" on the end of the first syllable of "Bunryaku," since his faces are like, I don't know, puppets, but then that woulud be "Bukage," and we all know what that sounds like.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 18 2006, 05:54 AM

REAL ULTIMATE BUMP!!!!

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Jan 18 2006, 07:51 AM

Posted by: BlackHat Jan 18 2006, 01:55 PM

Posted by: BlackHat Jan 18 2006, 01:58 PM

Lol, acutally, a quick search showed that "bu" can mean "to dispise, or make light of"... so maybe the name could mean "He who dispises the darkness" or "one who makes light of shadow." Kinda cool, but maybe not what you were going for... plus it rhymes with a sperm-shower, which your players will pick up on immediatly.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 18 2006, 03:28 PM

He does have high enough stats, and he's 400 BP. I'm having him be a player character in the one-shot.

Posted by: BlackHat Jan 18 2006, 03:35 PM

Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 18 2006, 03:50 PM

Posted by: Azralon Jan 18 2006, 04:32 PM

Aiee!

Posted by: blakkie Jan 18 2006, 06:32 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 18 2006, 08:34 PM

I want to play SR4, but no one's running a game. I'm thinking of having one of the players run a game every third or fourth week and playing Bukage.

Posted by: nezumi Jan 18 2006, 09:14 PM

Posted by: BlackHat Jan 18 2006, 09:17 PM

yes, please do name him that. The look on your fellow players faces would be priceless. PLus, your GM might give yo ua free point of notoriety for being the shadowrunner going by the handle 'Bukage'.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 18 2006, 10:46 PM

That would be AWESOME in a horrible way. I'll make it so that he didn't get the name himself. One of his unwanted groupies from the ninja clan will have spent much of his time and money secretly spreading the rumors of a legendary ninja named Bukage out of a misguided sense of dog-like loyalty. The ninja nominally named Bukage will be quite pissed at this, since even though he doesn't like this "subordinate," he understands all too well that this is the kind of thing he does. His personal mission, on top of killing people for money and negotiating brilliantly for it, will be to kill this man out of sheer ire and embarrassment.

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 18 2006, 10:47 PM

Oh, sweet innocence.

Posted by: Grinder Jan 18 2006, 11:32 PM

I can only repeat my mantra: he's learning, he's learning, he's learning.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 12:30 AM

What am I supposed to be learning? This seems like a fun idea.

Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 19 2006, 02:35 AM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 03:02 AM

I've been thinking of that, too. The rigger/hacker would be useless. I was thinking of having the mantid catch them and give them a counter-offer to give back the car but assassinate the Yakuza oyabun for, like, 5 times the money. There will be a few token bullet holes to make it look like something other than a setup, but it'll be good to go once the race starts. Getting into the garage won't be much of a problem, either. And being the honorable people they are, they'll probably take up the offer.

Also, what does a technomancer/rigger use Resonance for, besides sprites and increasing the cap on his complex forms?

Posted by: Critias Jan 19 2006, 04:34 AM

Posted by: nick012000 Jan 19 2006, 05:57 AM

Now, now, boys. Play nice.

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Jan 19 2006, 06:17 AM

Emo: sometimes it is ok to have groups go up against something that not everyone can effect. For one simple reason:life isn't fair. Don't do it often, and don't do it right away (like, say, the first run for a new group IMO), and don't make it some thing that you'll need the whole group to take (for example, a force 9 Mantid). It can be interesting just to remind people why a team is built of different skill groups, and not all one type. Also, I'd suggest taht if you do it, don't make it something only the mage can effect. Most people hate that.

That being said, I'd go ahead w/ the Mantid, but with a few changes.

1- lower the force to 4, 5or 6 if oyu want it to be recurring and not something they're going to figh. Higher if it will be a major plot character.

2- don't have it pay them. Not with moeny at least. Pay them by letting them live. also, remember that classic line "what's my motivation?" WHY is the Mantid doing all this? What does it have to gain? Even if the PC's never find out, having it's motives in mind gives it much more character and depth.

As for the ninja, my continuing problem with him is the groupie/hero worship. The idea, at least in my mind, that a ninja would basically worship another enough to spread his name in another country (or even their own dojo for that matter) as a 'legendary ninja' just seems ludricrous to me. Keep the character concept, keep the abilities, just drop the "everyone loves him, everyone wants to be him" mentality. I have characters that would kill him just for that. Hell, I'd bitch slap him myself (assuming I could bitch slap a "legendary ninja" that is).

Posted by: BlackHat Jan 19 2006, 12:49 PM

Posted by: Mr.Platinum Jan 19 2006, 02:19 PM

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 03:41 PM

Posted by: Mr.Platinum Jan 19 2006, 04:52 PM

Posted by: Azralon Jan 19 2006, 04:59 PM

It's the predictability of these events that bothers me.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 05:02 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Emoticon for rabid wolfman transformation*

*back to normal*

What do technomancers use resonance for? Is it only for upping the ceiling on their complex forms and compiling and decompiling sprites?

Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 19 2006, 05:04 PM

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 05:05 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 05:08 PM

Do they use it for computer and hacking?

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 05:08 PM

Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 19 2006, 05:15 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 05:19 PM

Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 19 2006, 05:21 PM

Scout song, maybe also sung by Barney?

ermm something like:

in hole is dirt, in dirt is seed, tree grow out of seed?

Posted by: Critias Jan 19 2006, 05:22 PM

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 05:22 PM

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 05:23 PM

It's getting to be a mighty big puddle this time. Looks like he Critias has lost bowl control too.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 05:25 PM

I wish we could ban people from posting on our threads. Goddammit.

Posted by: Critias Jan 19 2006, 05:25 PM

What's wrong with you, blakkie? Seriously? Why can't you just drop shit, and leave it alone? Honestly?

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 05:28 PM

He is the death in the night. He is vengeance itself. He is... SAMURAI/NINJA!!!

That, or he's very emotionally invested in Shadowrun. Which is good, up to a point, which is the point at which you start holding grudges over forum posts.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 05:28 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 05:29 PM

Do... not... get... my... fucking... thread... CLOSED DOWN!!!! *Rabid Wolf-Man Transformation*

Posted by: mfb Jan 19 2006, 05:30 PM

wow. from inane-but-basically-harmless to all-out flamefest in one post. nice, blakkie. i guess all that crap about you changing your ways and trying to do less flaming--that was all bullshit, huh? back to the old blakkie, who never met a thread he didn't want to shit on?

Posted by: Critias Jan 19 2006, 05:31 PM

Blakkie, I'm asking you, one supposed adult to another supposed adult -- just stop talking to and about me. That's it. Just stop. You started (came in out of nowhere, started insulting me far, far, more harshly than I've ever "insulted" Emo), so stop.

That's it.

Just...stop. So people can stop fucking reading this, I'm asking you to just shut up. Period. You come in, start beating a dead horse, and then claim to be blameless as to what comes next? Just stop talking to and about me. That's all I'm saying, dude. Shit. It's not a difficult concept.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2006, 05:34 PM

So, Emo.
I think we've sort of lost our collective train of thought, here.
Is there something else we can help you with?

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 05:35 PM

Posted by: Critias Jan 19 2006, 05:39 PM

This is fucking stupid. Blakkie, you're a ridiculous excuse for a human being. You can't let shit lie, you gotta come in and kick it around the room, wrecking a conversation. It's fucking sad, is all it is.

Someone asks you, person to person, to just shut up and stop talking to and about them, and you can't fucking help yourself. It's sad.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 05:40 PM

Posted by: BlackHat Jan 19 2006, 05:41 PM

Both of you are being retards.

Critas: You cannot just randomly insult someone else in a thread and then act all surprised when they show up and call you out on being an asshole. Its retarded to expect people to just ignore you while you insult them. Saying "Just ignore me" when you're the one that started it is just dumb.

Blakkie: You're just provoking Critas.

Now, both of you, hold hands and make up or I'll make Dad slap your heads together.

Posted by: mfb Jan 19 2006, 05:42 PM

wow. y'know, they gave SL James a time-out, and at least his massive flaming rampages were on-topic.

i'm going to make a valiant effort, here, and post on-topic. FrankTrollman had this to say about high-force spirit threats:

Posted by: BlackHat Jan 19 2006, 05:45 PM

Posted by: Critias Jan 19 2006, 05:46 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 05:49 PM

I was thinking of running with 450 BP characters because of the mantis spirit at the end. But then I thought of making a free mantis spirit a long-running PC, so I didn't want her to be killed at the end.

So I thought up the idea of her trying to get Yakuza backing so that she could cement her hold over the Barrens and let the roach spirit colony in her basement that she feeds on spread to other apartment blocks. It'll be like Bug City 2.0, except with 5 times the subtlety and hopefully no megacorp attention. Which rules out attacking the gangs directly with her spirits. When the runners manage to track the car, she figures that the best way to wipe out the other gangs is to kill the oyabun and make it look like the other gangs did it. The roach infestation could spread in the ensuing chaos. She's pretty much an unknown in the area and the building she inhabits has been owned by ghouls for years until she wiped them out, so no one knows about her or really wants to check. No one goes near her building or gives it a second thought, and the yakuza won't really bother to suspect that a bunch of (nonexistent) blind HMVV sufferers are the ones to snipe the oyabun. Instead, it'll be a bunch of runners.

The problem: how do I make an assassination on a jury-rigged race track difficult for 450 BP characters? I matched up my characters to the NPC's in the book, and they're better than Red Samurai.

Posted by: Critias Jan 19 2006, 05:52 PM

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2006, 05:54 PM

I agree. Goons are a classic way to give everyone something to do while one person takes on the enemy that only they can. The goons could even be low-force male mantid spirits, or something the others can actually damage.

As for the roach colony thing, maybe it's just me, but a mantis spirit "farming" other spirits seems out of character. There could well be roach spirits that she eats, but maybe they shouldn't be under her control; she's fighting them. Add another villain. A little more complexity might give longevity to the idea. (as opposed to one, singular enemy who, if the PCs kill, ends the campaign)

As for making the assasination difficult, well, be smart about the defense, and add one little detail that the PCs didn't know about ahead of time. One little hitch can turn a milk run into a disaster. Maybe the target of the assasination has been replaced by a flesh form bug?

Posted by: mfb Jan 19 2006, 05:54 PM

"i know what you're doing! you're using wiles on me!"

farming bugs isn't in a mantid spirit's basic nature. you could have a deviant mantid spirit doing this, maybe, which might pave the way for some really wacky alliances--runners teaming up with other mantid spirits to take out the deviant freak, etcetera.

Posted by: Critias Jan 19 2006, 05:58 PM

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2006, 05:58 PM

Posted by: mfb Jan 19 2006, 05:59 PM

well, because they're so tast--er, capable.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2006, 06:00 PM

Posted by: BlackHat Jan 19 2006, 06:02 PM

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 08:34 PM

Posted by: mfb Jan 19 2006, 08:37 PM

you are completely useless. and a liar.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 08:41 PM

Posted by: mfb Jan 19 2006, 08:43 PM

the PMs you sent me about a month back, wherein you stated you were trying to change and not be so much of a flaming asshole--where, specifically, you said you were going to try "to play nice with you, Critias, and James." looking at this thread, i think calling you a liar is pretty understated.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 08:54 PM

Posted by: mfb Jan 19 2006, 09:00 PM

right. emo samurai, i'm sorry about your thread. it was whimsical while it lasted.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2006, 09:10 PM

I feel bad for Emo. He made a hojillion threads a day, and we yelled at him, and so he made a dedicated idea page and has been looking up more answers to questions before he asks them. He's done everything we've asked. Sure, his ideas make some of us cringe sometimes (you have to admit, Emo, some of your ideas have been pretty out-there), but he's creative, and he submits his ideas for feedback with better than average grammar, he's understandable, and he doesn't flame. And what do we do? We poop all over his thread.
I'm sorry, Emo.

Posted by: Azralon Jan 19 2006, 09:10 PM

I just know that enough gasoline will eventually smother this fire.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2006, 09:17 PM

Was that pointed at me? I hope my post wasn't inflammatory. When I said 'we', I was referring to the dumpshock community as a whole, so as not to point any fingers or be inflammatory in any way.
Please, no one be offended by my post. I didn't mean it to be.
edit: I probably should've put my previous post in a PM to Emo, though.
Sorry everybody.
Let's talk about Emo's campaign ideas more.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 09:23 PM

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 19 2006, 09:26 PM

I think that the spirit should go free in the first encounter with it. They gun down the insect shaman, then the spirit goes free. Or if not in the first encounter, at some point along the way. I just think this develops the villain more, and would be fun.

Posted by: Azralon Jan 19 2006, 09:59 PM

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 10:00 PM

Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 19 2006, 10:00 PM

Mantis spirits have two main ways they can show up: True Form and Flesh Form. The flesh form is going to be seven kinds of complicated, because the rules for possession haven't been published. At its core, the spirit is going to have physical attributes of the host's plus the force of the spirit, and then have whatever modifiers on top of that the writers of the spirits and threats section of Street Magic agree upon. I don't know what those will be, so I'd suggest not doing that.

The true form on the other hand, works just like a normal spirit once it's been conjured. The conjuring itself is a weird blood ritual which requires the sacrifice of one living creature and some of the spirit energy gained from killing another spirit that itself required the sacrifice of a living creature to bring into the world, and the rules for that whole thing haven't been written for SR4. Again, I don't know what they'll look like in Street Magic (honestly I wish I did, it would make my life easier). But since this spirit has already been conjured, you don't have to care. That all happened off camera before the spirit even entered stage left, so it's not important.

True form is definately the way you want to go if you want to stay within the rules as much as possible. In previous editions, all male mantids were true form and all female mantids were flesh form, so you might want to make this a cockroach spirit or fly spirit instead if you want to put it in a position of major antagonist. Mantids aren't particularly human-friendly, so really any free solitary insect spirit can perform the kinds of plot hooks you seem to want.

A true form solitary insect spirit is (hopefully) just a beast spirit. Optional powers can be Natural Weapon and Venom.

---

If you really want the whole "hot chick who is really a mantis spirit" thing going... I suggest the following ad hoc house conversion for one:

Take a basic human profile (3s in every physical stat or there abouts. Maybe give her an agility of 4 and strength of 2 to drive home that she is little and hot and maybe Asian).

Add the spirit's force to all her physical stats.

Replace all the mental and special attributes with the spirit's force.

Give her all the spirit powers of a spirit of beasts except materialization and astral form.

Make her dual natured and give her immunity to normal weapons.

Give her the initiate power of Masking, with an effective grade of her Force (which is to say: "good luck on seeing through that, biatch!"). Allow her masking to cover up her continual spirit powers even though it normally doesn't.

That should do. Free Spirits used to have all kinds of extra crazy rules involved, such as Spirit Energy and bonus powers and such, but you don't really have to worry about all that.

-Frank

Posted by: boskop-albatros Jan 19 2006, 10:11 PM

yes it is me

I'm not into bugs too much....so what if you get a shaman who has an anti-insect spirit totem/metor spirit to come around?

racoon could be slightly anti-bug but the main ones would be

Armadillo
possum
ant eater(s) [more then one type]
skunks(s) [all kinds]
shrikes [it's a perching bird that eats lizards and bugs]
chameleon
gecko
sherews

Just to give your campaign some ideas

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 10:40 PM

I agree with Frank that true form is going to be easier. But his fleshform suggestions make sense too given SR3 rules. You might consider imposing the Modified Attribute cap for the physical stats if you want to tone it down a smidgen. But then again these are normally NPCs so it is quite possible that won't happen with the canon Street Magic rules.

Still a few tweaks from the SR3 rules that you may or may not want to bring forward. For example the part about only insect spirits with wings can fly doesn't really make sense since under SR4 rules generally all the spirits can "fly".

Also there is the SR3 rule that when Banishing a trueform the spirit is treated as having double the Force. Given how SR4 rules work that would make any attempt to Banish a Force 9 insect spirit foolhardy since the spirit would roll 18 dice and the Drain on that is 2*hits DV. Average 12P drain before the spirit uses Edge? Ya, scatch foolhardy and replace that with suicidal.

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 10:52 PM

Hmmm... when she goes free, is she cut off from the insect metaplane? If she is, does she have a greater degree of free will?

Oh, and we should totally have a Desert Flame Wars thread that just has Critias, Blakkie, and everyone else who wants to be involved just hurling insults at each other. It would be funny, and I wouldn't have to deal with it.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 11:01 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 11:20 PM

Do insect spirits need human hosts for new insect spirits after they become free?

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 11:31 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 19 2006, 11:39 PM

So she should have no problem fitting in. Except for the eating roaches part.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 19 2006, 11:49 PM

Perhaps the wetwork target is a weaker male mantis. The gang leader's "groupie" in the background is the real master, being the Mother. Ganking the male is going to piss off the female because you just killed Mommie's lunch. Female mantis do something akin to Essense Drain (to death) of the males they summon so that they can gain the strength to summon more mantis spirits (both male and female). The Mother can only summon more spirits after they consume a male in this way!

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Jan 20 2006, 06:43 AM

Back to something mentioned before by mfb, it's unlikely that a mantis spirit would actively get another insect groups hive to grow. For one, that's not how a normal mantis would work, and they do have an underlying insect mentality. But most importantly, the roach's are going to know that the mantis is trying to bug-farm them , and they do have the ability to fight back. One Mantis against a hive is a bad idea, even with 'goons'..

boskop: anti-bug? that's what mantis spirits basically are. The anti-bug bug. They're the bug anti-christ.

back to emo: if you want to really mess with their heads, make the mantid have ties to the Mothers of Metahumans policlub.You can make a full campaign of them with factions of MOM running against them! Imagine their suprise when they find the deepest entrenched bug of them all, Anne Penchyk! Then watch them squirm while they try to expose "the horror of her true self" to the media. Good times. Good times.

Posted by: Azralon Jan 20 2006, 03:01 PM

Posted by: Critias Jan 20 2006, 03:44 PM

Don't bother. I'm finished, and hopefully so is he. Apologies for the disruption -- there was an attempt to take it to PMs, initially, but then I decided "fuck it" and just stopped talking to him entirely. Sorry for derailing.

Are you getting a few more concrete ideas out of the (on topic) parts, Emo? It sounds like the campaign idea/arch-villian part is progressing nicely, at least.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 20 2006, 04:34 PM

Posted by: emo samurai Jan 20 2006, 05:01 PM

SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!1!!!11!!!!

There. And how is asking for a Desert Flame Wars thread more wise than having a mystical ninja poser in a dank and gritty world like SR4?

Posted by: Azralon Jan 20 2006, 05:42 PM

Now, see, I told you it was a wise thing to say but never said it was a wise thing to do.

Posted by: blakkie Jan 20 2006, 05:57 PM

Posted by: Adam Jan 20 2006, 06:36 PM

I don't think there's anything to be gained by keeping this open. Emo, if you want, start a new thread for your campaign ideas.