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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Why even get cyberware?
Posted by: emo samurai Jan 17 2006, 03:03 AM
Bioware is so much cheaper essence-wise even than delta-grade, and it's on average about 5 times as cost-effective nuyen-wise compared to delta grade. Most of the time, its availability isn't even higher.
Posted by: Liper Jan 17 2006, 04:06 AM
money?
Posted by: Ancient History Jan 17 2006, 04:16 AM
Cyberware can do some things bioware cannot.
Posted by: emo samurai Jan 17 2006, 04:30 AM
True. Like store guns in your arms and stuff.
Posted by: Dale Jan 17 2006, 04:32 AM
Agreed.
Plus, Cyberware is shiny and cool. It's also about image.
Posted by: emo samurai Jan 17 2006, 05:06 AM
But bioware is always more efficient magic-point wise than even Adept powers; it's like they're encouraging burnout.
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 17 2006, 05:14 AM
Bioware had better be more efficient than getting Adept Powers on a magic-for-magic basis - it has additional costs. It costs Essence and 
in addition to just Magic, so if it cost the same or more in Magic it would be an insultingly shitty deal.
-Frank
Posted by: Glyph Jan 17 2006, 06:55 AM
Don't forget that when you calculate Essense loss for bioware and cyberware, you take the highest one, then half of the lowest one. So if you go mostly for bioware, what cyberware you do take will cost half of the normal Essense cost.
Posted by: Cynic project Jan 17 2006, 09:19 AM
Here it is. Bioware used to cost something called bio-index or something.having a high bio-index made it so you never healed.Or slowed you down so much that if it was a big as essence you would take a light wound and having it for week unless you were healed with magic.
In forth they got rid of that. They did not change the cost of a lot of cyberware. But they change what bioware cost your characters. I see this as one forth ed biggest flaw. The only cyberware you want is the thing that bio can't do. They need to rework the costs of cyberware. Sorry but wired reflexs need to cost way less money and essence. This is a legacy issue, and one that need to be fixed. I do not think bio or cyber should be hand down better than the other. I do not think that if given a resouce that the players can't refund that there should items that are provably better in every way. you have 6 point of essence and you don't get them back. I am just sorry if something bio or cyber and do the same thing they should both cost about the same in money and essence. I do not mind if bioware is basically higher grade.Hell you could make it even slightly less money, under the idea that you have to put some much just to get it or something. So if the cyberware cost 2 essence and 30K.. The bioware should cost no less than 1 essence, and something like 300K(maybe 280K). That would make them different enough that the poor man would get cyberware and the rich man would get bio. That would also make them balanced..As the man with cybware could get delta grade and bingo pay the price for his crome.
Posted by: Clyde Jan 17 2006, 02:45 PM
Bioware costs less essence, but some of the cyberware is an incredible steal in terms of the raw, "how tough can I make this character on 50 points of resources" power. Take muscle replacement - horrible deal on essence but it costs 5,000 and gives +1 to Agility AND Strength. 1 Build Point spent on Resources gets you 20 in Attributes!!! The Reaction Enhancer (in addition to costing so little essence it might as well *be* bioware) is almost as good - 2 build points to get you 10 points worth of stat. The fact that the stat in question is Reaction (useful for going first and not getting shot) and the essence hit is low make this item a must have. Hell, a decent car costs more.
Synaptic booster is 80,000 per level. That's 16 Build Points - more expensive than buying Reaction naturally! Muscle Augmentation and Muscle Toner are okay - the exchange ratio works out to something like 7 to 1 in each case - and the low essence hit is nice. The only bioware that's an actual steal, however, is the oft-maligned Adrenal Pump, which gets you 40 BP in temporary stat boost for every 6 BP you put in.
Finally, cyberware costs very, very little. The old (2nd Edition) Street Samurai archetype needed 400,000 (Resources B) to get his cyber - Wired II, Dermal Plating I, Muscle Replacement I, Retractable Spur, Cybereyes and Smartlink if I remember right. You can do the same build on less than 50,000 today. I.e. that's only 10 BP on resources - leaving you a lot more for contacts. Take the stuff as alphaware (saving at least a full point of essence) or sub in only the most attractive bioware, and you get a build that's just as powerful as an all bioware guy, but on only half the points.
Posted by: stevebugge Jan 17 2006, 03:47 PM
Why cyber? It's all about style and flavor! I'm sorry but Muscle augmenttation just doesn't have the eyepopping wow factor that a shiny chrome cyber arm has. If the only thing you look at when building a character is the power fot build points ratio, in my opinion you're missing a big part of the game.
Posted by: Grinder Jan 17 2006, 04:22 PM
I'll second stevenbugge. Chrome can help to intimidate people, bio, can't.
Posted by: Azralon Jan 17 2006, 04:40 PM
The social modifiers table even says so.
Are you a chromed monster? +2 to Intimidate!
Posted by: BlackHat Jan 17 2006, 04:42 PM
Plus, didn't this reasoning begin with comparing bioware to DELTA-grade Cyberware?
| QUOTE |
| (I)t's on average about 5 times as cost-effective nuyen-wise compared to delta grade |
A starting character can't very well get his hands on delta-grade stuff - and for most, down the road, it's unlikely that they'll get an appointment with one of the 10 (or so) delta-grade clinics in the world. When I make a character, I don't really think about the fact tha someday I might get Delta-grade stuff.
I think a comparison with normal or alpha grade cyberware would give a better answer to the question - but with similar results to what everyone (including Emo) said above.
At chargen, normal cyberware is sometimes cheaper nuyen-wise than bioware equivilents. Bioware means less of an essence-hit, though. Some characters care one way or another. Personally, I usually go the cyberware route - but I almost exclusivly play tech-heavy characters whose essense is shot anyways, and who need money for everything else.
Also, like everyone said, cyberware does different things. If I want a cranial commlink - bioware isn't going to do it.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 17 2006, 05:06 PM
| QUOTE (BlackHat) |
| and for most, down the road, it's unlikely that they'll get an appointment with one of the 10 (or so) delta-grade clinics in the world. |
Is this still true, or are we assuming?
Maybe delta grade 'ware isn't all that unobtainable anymore.
Of couse, soon they'll be coming out with Zeta-ware! (I know I'm skipping Epsilon-ware, but that sounds dumb. Plus, they skipped Gamma-ware.)
reference to those curious: greek alphabet:
alpha - a
beta - b
gamma - g
delta - d
epsilon - e
zeta - z
and so on...
Of course, they put their letters in a different order than we do, so depending on how you look at it, maybe they didn't skip gamma. Maybe that's next.
If my memory of the order of the greek alphabet is wrong, someone please correct me.
Posted by: mdynna Jan 17 2006, 06:25 PM
The other downside of Bioware is that it can't be turned off. You switch off your Wired Reflexes when you're not on a run but that Synaptic Accelerator and Adrenal Pump are there all the time. So, anything that gets you excited triggers that stuff! Going to that hot new Concrete Dreams concert?
"WhoaManThisIsReallyCoolILoveThisBandSoMuchICan'tWaitToHearMyFavouriteSong!ChummerTheyTotallyRockI'mGoing..." <BANG> 5 points of stun damage! "I have a headache, I'm going home..."
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 17 2006, 06:39 PM
While this may may be true for the Adrenal Pump, the only real disadvantage of having an Synaptic Accelerator is that you'll have a penalty while trying motion sensors really slooow.
Posted by: Azralon Jan 17 2006, 06:46 PM
Not per the RAW, Rotbart. That'd be strictly GM-induced flavor penalties.
Posted by: DireRadiant Jan 17 2006, 06:59 PM
| QUOTE (Azralon) |
| Not per the RAW, Rotbart. That'd be strictly GM-induced flavor penalties. |
P 254 Defeating motion sensors
"Characters amped
for speed may find it difficult to
maneuver in this way; apply a
negative dice pool modifi er equal
to their extra Initiative Passes."
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 17 2006, 07:05 PM
| QUOTE (Azralon) |
| That'd be strictly GM-induced flavor penalties. |
Yeah, sure... but that is such a delicate field - especially concerning overreaction (which would be more likely with wired reflexes turned on, as the user is not as used to it...)
Posted by: Azralon Jan 17 2006, 07:07 PM
Oh ho, DireRadiant FTW!
Posted by: DireRadiant Jan 17 2006, 08:25 PM
| QUOTE (Azralon) |
| Oh ho, DireRadiant FTW! |
It's just an example how the book has little tidbits buried in all sorts of places that make it impossible to know what modifiers might apply to various situations.
Ideally the GM screen, or somethign similar will have a handly dandy Sensor Test modifications chart.
Posted by: hobgoblin Jan 17 2006, 08:59 PM
well that one is under motion sensors, so idealy everything about motions sensors are under one topic 
or should that particular part be under the various reflex enhancers?
thats the great thing about a relational database, you can link everything left right and center...
Posted by: Azralon Jan 17 2006, 09:08 PM
| QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jan 17 2006, 04:59 PM) |
| thats the great thing about a relational database, you can link everything left right and center... |
Books make horrible relational databases. You've got your table of contents, and you've got your index, and you might even have a glossary... but too much cross-referencing can get in the way of the reading material itself.
The Shadowrun PDF isn't as easily plopped down on a gaming table as ye olde hardcopy, but having the thing in a laptop sure makes looking stuff up quicker. It kills the visceral experience of flipping directly to the right page for something, of course. I'm okay with that tradeoff.
Posted by: emo samurai Jan 17 2006, 10:29 PM
You can search in the PDF?
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 17 2006, 10:35 PM
Sure.
Posted by: Bearclaw Jan 18 2006, 01:38 AM
Yea, that's the advantage to having an official, company made .pdf instead of scanned and dumped on Kazaa.
You can search, copy, paste, add bookmarks, all kinds of cool stuff.
Posted by: BishopMcQ Jan 18 2006, 01:57 AM
Not to mention the kazaa version carries a prison sentence and up to $50,000 pricetag if you get caught...
Posted by: nick012000 Jan 18 2006, 02:03 AM
If you live in America. In Australia, it'll just get you sued unless you start trying to make money off of it.
Posted by: emo samurai Jan 18 2006, 02:04 AM
That's IF they catch you.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 18 2006, 02:42 AM
And if the copyright holder doesn't just have you killed as an example, which is cheaper than a trial anyway.
Posted by: Clyde Jan 18 2006, 02:31 PM
That's WotC.
Posted by: Kerberos Jan 18 2006, 02:36 PM
| QUOTE (McQuillan) |
| Not to mention the kazaa version carries a prison sentence and up to $50,000 pricetag if you get caught... |
Do you honestly mean to tell me that violating copyright on a product worth perhaps 30 dollars will get you a fine of 50.000 and a prison sentence? I find that hard to believe. I think you'd be closer to the mark if you removed 2 or 3 zeroes and the prison sentence.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 18 2006, 03:00 PM
Would it be legal to download the Kazaa version if you already owned the dead tree version? What if you had already purchased the .pdf. (I know you wouldn't, but it's just a legal question) I'm more interested in the first one. I own the dead tree version. Can I legally download it? I know I could legally scan and make my own .pdf, provided I don't distribute it, but that's a pain in the butt.
Posted by: PBTHHHHT Jan 18 2006, 03:03 PM
Depends if the judge really really wants to make an example of you... and if you piss him off in the courtroom. So be on your best behavior!
So just buy the darn book and don't illegally download, it's not worth it.
Posted by: Kerberos Jan 18 2006, 03:13 PM
| QUOTE (PBTHHHHT @ Jan 18 2006, 10:03 AM) |
| Depends if the judge really really wants to make an example of you... and if you piss him off in the courtroom. So be on your best behavior! So just buy the darn book and don't illegally download, it's not worth it. |
Why would I buy it if it's not worth it?
Wait that's not what you meant.
As it happens I did buy the book, the dead tree version, I much prefer the hardback to the PDF. The 50.000 dollar fine plus prison is way over the top however no matter how much you piss of the judge, not gonna happen, file piracy is at wordst the equivlant of shoplifting and they don't generally fine you 50.000 dollars for filching a candy bar.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 18 2006, 03:18 PM
But why is the .pdf version illegal if you've paid for the dead tree.
For example, I know it's legal for me to download an .mp3 of a song, provided I have the CD at home, because I have paid for the song. Therefore, I can have it in multiple forms without stealing.
It seems to me that downloading a .pdf while owning the dead tree is the same situation. The only reason I wonder is that in the second example I'm comparing a digital media to a physical one, and the first example is two digital. Of course, I can always legally make my own .pdf, so I really don't see how downloading it could be illegal; again, provided the downloader already owns the material in some form
Don't get me wrong, I won't do it if it's not legal; nobody better be stealing from Shadowrun, but it would be convenient to have both.
Posted by: Kerberos Jan 18 2006, 03:37 PM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| But why is the .pdf version illegal if you've paid for the dead tree. For example, I know it's legal for me to download an .mp3 of a song, provided I have the CD at home, because I have paid for the song. Therefore, I can have it in multiple forms without stealing. It seems to me that downloading a .pdf while owning the dead tree is the same situation. The only reason I wonder is that in the second example I'm comparing a digital media to a physical one, and the first example is two digital. Of course, I can always legally make my own .pdf, so I really don't see how downloading it could be illegal; again, provided the downloader already owns the material in some form Don't get me wrong, I won't do it if it's not legal; nobody better be stealing from Shadowrun, but it would be convenient to have both. |
Because they're considered seperate products. I digital mp3 on a CD is considered the same as a digital mp3 on a hard disc, while a printed book is not considered the same as a pdf digital copy. Kind of like how it's probably not legal for you to download a dvd-copy of a movie that you own on VHS.
Posted by: Azralon Jan 18 2006, 03:43 PM
The PDF version can do things the hardcopy version can't, and it also costs less money but more Essence.
Posted by: BishopMcQ Jan 18 2006, 03:51 PM
| QUOTE (US Copyright Office) |
| Uploading or downloading works protected by copyright without the authority of the copyright owner is an infringement of the copyright owner's exclusive rights of reproduction and/or distribution. Anyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150, 000 for each work infringed. In addition, an infringer of a work may also be liable for the attorney's fees incurred by the copyright owner to enforce his or her rights. Since the files distributed over peer-to-peer networks are primarily copyrighted works, there is a risk of liability for downloading material from these networks. To avoid these risks, there are currently many "authorized" services on the Internet that allow consumers to purchase copyrighted works online, whether music, ebooks, or motion pictures. By purchasing works through authorized services, consumers can avoid the risks of infringement liability and can limit their exposure to other potential risks, e.g., viruses, unexpected material, or spyware. |
More information can be found http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| But why is the .pdf version illegal if you've paid for the dead tree...<SNIP>Of course, I can always legally make my own .pdf, so I really don't see how downloading it could be illegal |
The main problem is that the copyright law as written says you are only allowed to create a digital back-up of certain materials for certain reasons such as legitimate back-up in case of damage to the original.
The copyright in the book CopyrightŠ 2005 WizKids Inc. All Rights Reserved. Shadowrun, Matrix, and WK Games are registered trademarks and/or trademarks of WizKids, Inc. in the United States and/or other countries. No part of this work may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, without the prior permission in writing of the Copyright Owner, nor be otherwise circulated in any form other than that in which it is published. lists exactly why it is illegal to download the PDF from any non-authorized provider.
I sadly have to explain this to people every day when they ask me to scan in and touch up professional photos. The law prohibits me from making a digital record of the photos because I am not the copyright holder.
--BACK ON TOPIC--
Emo--Buy Cyber because it's what your character wants and fits the concept...sometimes it will be the best way to meet a desired effect, other times it won't. But as many of the arguments here pointed out, it's a matter of style and personal choice.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jan 18 2006, 03:59 PM
Wow. Okay, I guess that answers my questions. So I can't even legally scan my dead tree and make my own .pdf? Bummer.
Thanks!
Posted by: zzimet Jan 18 2006, 05:58 PM
Well, I don't think the question should be: to cyber or not to cyber.
The question should be: how can I get the MOST cheese out of the things, and I think the answer to that is using BOTH cyber and bio.
That little rule that says that the lower of your cyber and bio essence costs is halved is very meaningful. (page 301, sidebar, section: "essence cost")
Wired reflexes is almost a no-brainer for anyone not magically active. It's just that simple. Once you have those, even if you get little other cyber, your bioware essence costs go down.
I think the two things are fairly well balanced. Sure, if you have endless money, bioware versions of cyber things are more essence-friendly, but they are often way more expensive.
And once you are out of character creation, adding cyber/bio means going under the knife of someone who is likely a criminal and likely someone you can't totally trust, not to mention mainly at GM discretion. Scary? Should be.
Zach
Posted by: Dale Jan 18 2006, 07:32 PM
my 2
Laws blow.
Posted by: Kerberos Jan 18 2006, 07:46 PM
| QUOTE (zzimet @ Jan 18 2006, 12:58 PM) |
| And once you are out of character creation, adding cyber/bio means going under the knife of someone who is likely a criminal and likely someone you can't totally trust, not to mention mainly at GM discretion. Scary? Should be. Zach |
That's why you should get yourself a street doc contact. Preferably one with a decent loyalty.
Posted by: nick012000 Jan 18 2006, 11:08 PM
| QUOTE (Kerberos) | ||
That's why you should get yourself a street doc contact. Preferably one with a decent loyalty. |
Or get yourself a license to get these things legally, and go under the knife of a doctor that you can sue for malpractice.
Posted by: Grinder Jan 18 2006, 11:26 PM
Never leave home without them - friends! Escpecially not when going under the knife of a street doc (who lives of his reputation and won't kill every customer/ patient he has, btw).
Posted by: Eyeless Blond Jan 19 2006, 11:29 PM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| But why is the .pdf version illegal if you've paid for the dead tree. For example, I know it's legal for me to download an .mp3 of a song, provided I have the CD at home, because I have paid for the song. Therefore, I can have it in multiple forms without stealing. |
By the by, this is actually illegal now, thanks to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act that got passed under Clinton while everyone was busy watching the Lewinsky trials*. What you describe used to be protected under the "Fair Use" clause, but not anymore.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember under the DMCA it's even illegal to allow other people to listen to a CD you bought. I'm honestly not sure about that though, but I do know that it's the music industry's practice of suing its customer base that's prompted me not to buy a single music CD in the past five years.
*Around the same time we also sent thousands of bombs into Iraq under Operation Desert Fox, predicated on the "fact" of Hussein's possession of weapons of mass destruction, that President Clinton broadcast to the American people. What, did you think Bush was the first president to make that claim, or use it to justify policy decisions?
Posted by: Space Ghost Jan 20 2006, 01:35 AM
i know that if you play music in a public place you have to pay fees. A lot of restaurants don't bother, since it's rarely enforced and the fine you would be forced to pay if caught is negligible.
Posted by: Galmorez Jan 20 2006, 11:45 PM
| QUOTE (zzimet) |
| Well, I don't think the question should be: to cyber or not to cyber. The question should be: how can I get the MOST cheese out of the things, and I think the answer to that is using BOTH cyber and bio. That little rule that says that the lower of your cyber and bio essence costs is halved is very meaningful. (page 301, sidebar, section: "essence cost") Wired reflexes is almost a no-brainer for anyone not magically active. It's just that simple. Once you have those, even if you get little other cyber, your bioware essence costs go down. I think the two things are fairly well balanced. Sure, if you have endless money, bioware versions of cyber things are more essence-friendly, but they are often way more expensive. And once you are out of character creation, adding cyber/bio means going under the knife of someone who is likely a criminal and likely someone you can't totally trust, not to mention mainly at GM discretion. Scary? Should be. Zach |
Bingo.
In SR3, if you were going for 'ware, it was best to strike a balance between your bio and cyber. They've kept that concept in SR4. If you're going to put character creation budget into borging-out, get a good mix.
Posted by: jago668 Jan 30 2006, 12:03 PM
Oh just so you know, wired reflexes comes with a trigger to turn it on and off. You would then pretty much have to assume that the synaptic booster bioware stuff would come with something similar. Just a thought, plus we have always let the physical adepts turn their initiative boosters on and off.
Though I do have to agree with the adrenal pump, I've never really found it worth it.
Posted by: Azralon Jan 30 2006, 03:55 PM
| QUOTE (jago668) |
| Oh just so you know, wired reflexes comes with a trigger to turn it on and off. You would then pretty much have to assume that the synaptic booster bioware stuff would come with something similar. Just a thought, plus we have always let the physical adepts turn their initiative boosters on and off. |
I know of no SR4 RAW reference to this on/off switch.
I do know that the book mentions that boosted people get a penalty to moving slowly while attempting to fool motion sensors. This penalty would be meaningless if you could just turn off the boosting at will.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 30 2006, 04:02 PM
It is there under the wired reflexes entry.
Posted by: Squinky Jan 30 2006, 04:06 PM
I've always assumed that switch was one of the benefits of having a cybernetic reflex system. Since the other ones are magical and organic in nature, I wouldn't think that you could send a mental message to your spine to start working slower....If that were the case then Adrenaline pumps would be actaully feasible....
Posted by: Azralon Jan 30 2006, 05:03 PM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jan 30 2006, 12:02 PM) |
| It is there under the wired reflexes entry. |
My bad; I was referring to the bioware switch. I suppose it'd apply to the adept power, too.
The existence of bioware "switches" is something that's already come up in my group. We have a faceman who, of course, has the pheromone mod. In some cases it's bad to go around with your super-stank turned on, but (like synaptic booster) we can't find anything that says it can be deactivated. The pain editor is bioware that has a trigger, so there's precedent there. Yet turning off scent glands isn't necessarily the same thing.
The way I'd prefer to declare it to work is that if the specific entry says it has a switch, then it does. If not, then it doesn't. I'd also be okay with saying that all cyber can be active or inactive (to give it a bit more value, even if the value is an off switch).
Posted by: Squinky Jan 30 2006, 05:08 PM
That makes good sense to me.
Posted by: Shrike30 Jan 30 2006, 08:52 PM
I believe one of the free actions listed involves activation or deactivation of cyberwear, although I'm at work and may be holding over from SR3.
I think the fact that Wired Reflexes specifically mention an on-off switch, while the bio equivalent does NOT specifically mention an on-off switch should indicate pretty clearly that the cyber version can be switched on and off, while the bio doesn't have that option. One of the perks to coughing up that much essence on a single piece of ware.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 30 2006, 09:18 PM
Player: I jump into the water and swim after him.
GM, checking the character sheet: Are you sure about that?
PLayer: Right. I turn off my metal bones then I jump in the water and swim after him.
GM: *Facefaults*
Be careful about what houserules you make concerning the deactivation of cyberware.
Posted by: Azralon Jan 30 2006, 09:35 PM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| PLayer: Right. I turn off my metal bones then I jump in the water and swim after him. |
Heh. Good catch on the overuse of the word "all."
But hey, I'd allow someone to turn off their bones. Once.
*SPLAT* slurp slurrp slurp slurrp *die*
OHHH, you meant the metal on the bones. Okay.
Posted by: emo samurai Jan 31 2006, 05:12 PM
Would bone density augmentation have the same effect?
Posted by: Azralon Jan 31 2006, 05:16 PM
I was joking, Emo.
Posted by: Chrome Shadow Jan 31 2006, 05:28 PM
Talking about the switches and adept powers... In the Shadowrun novels, physical adepts (for example, Ryan Mercury) had to call the magic to them, in effect, turning the magic on...
Posted by: Azralon Jan 31 2006, 05:42 PM
Invoking novels as canonical RAW is dangerous territory, Chrome. The writers aren't bound by the rulebooks as we are, and have been known to blatantly disregard them in the name of artistic license.
Posted by: Chrome Shadow Jan 31 2006, 05:52 PM
You are right Azralon; but it was just a way to present a possibility for the way the powers could work.
It'll be a drawback to have improved reflexes III on "all the time"...
It'll be an advantage to have mistic armor or direction sense on "all the time"...
Some times it makes sense, some times not...
Posted by: weblife Jan 31 2006, 09:34 PM
In SR3 cyberware had to have a DNI connection to a router to headware of some kind in order to be controlled intuitively, ie turned off. Otherwise it had to be a switch under the skin or similar.
I don't have the SR4 yet, but unless they simplified that part, its still the way it works.
For bioware I have always had the feeling that these function like normal organs, but better. In other words, if you can train yourself to slow down your heartrate or wiggle your ears, then with sufficient training and self-control, you should be able to naturally slow down even with speedboosting bioware.
Likewise with the pheromones, they could be hooked up, or probably is hooked up, to the pheromone glands you already have. As in, if you get scared you smell of fear, and if you get excited... you get the drift, ye? - We all have pheromone glands, we're just not very good at consciously controlling them or picking up their signals.
An implant would be like an extremely welltrained muscle that gets hooked up to nerves you just have to learn how to trigger to control.
As for Magic, I'd never let it be a detraction to have it. Full and complete control.
Posted by: FrankTrollman Jan 31 2006, 09:56 PM
| QUOTE |
| I don't have the SR4 yet, but unless they simplified that part, |
Oh hellz yes did they simplify that part. Now all cyberware comes standard with a router connection, a commlink hookup, and a wireless tranceiver. All cyberware. All the time. It's not a separate piece of ware you need to get, it's just how everything works.
-Frank
Posted by: emo samurai Feb 1 2006, 12:51 AM
| QUOTE |
| As for Magic, I'd never let it be a detraction to have it. Full and complete control. |
Even quickened improved reflexes spells?
Posted by: weblife Feb 1 2006, 09:13 AM
| QUOTE (emo samurai) | ||
Even quickened improved reflexes spells? |
Yes. I never agreed that the caster relinquishes control of a spell when he quickens it, or use a sustaining focus. He merely change the source of "fuel" for the spell.
As it still contains his unique astral signature, it is, to me, clear that it is still tied to him and thus under his continued influence.
Otherwise it'd be really unhandy to quicken a Levitate spell if all you'd accomplish was to move in some preprogrammed pattern without control...
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