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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Mystic Adept and Drain

Posted by: Ghostfire Jan 22 2006, 09:06 PM

I wanted to gather some opinions from folks around here about how spell force, Magic, and the Mystic Adept interact. First, let me paste in the relevant section:

CODE

Some adepts choose to learn less than their maximum number
of adept powers, preserving some of their Power Points for
spellcasting or conjuring. Such magicians are still called adepts
by most magicians, though other adepts may refer to the character
as following the “Magician’s Way.” Characters who wish to
become mystic adepts have the option of splitting their Magic attribute
between spellcasting and conjuring or physical abilities.
For every point of Magic invested in physical abilities, the
character gets one Power Point that she can use to purchase
adept powers. Every point of Magic invested in mana-based
abilities grants the character one point to use with Magic-based
skills. For all other purposes, including the determination of
the maximum level for adept powers, the character’s full Magic
attribute is used. Such a character will not have as many adept
powers as most other adepts, nor will they be able to cast spells
with the same skill as true magicians. Mystic adepts may use
their adept powers normally.

So. What does that mean in real terms? My questions are as follows. Assume a Mystic Adept with 2 PP in adept abilities, and 2 magic devoted to casting. 4 Magic total.

1) What is the maximum Force spell the above character may cast, while overcasting? 4 or 8?

2) Are there any other limits besides the number of dice you add to a test involving Magic-linked skills?

Posted by: Darkness Jan 23 2006, 12:42 AM

He can cast a Force 8 Spell. But he can only roll 2 (non-power magic rating) + Skill dice for magical tests. Of course he can use foci and other modifiers normally.

[Edit]My spelling sucks[/edit]

Posted by: Cold-Dragon Jan 23 2006, 03:23 AM

Yeah, that's pretty much it. all the split really does is make any test using magic attribute use the splitted value, but for determining max potential, etc, you use the full value.

Posted by: Kanati Synge Jan 23 2006, 04:11 AM

QUOTE (Cold-Dragon @ Jan 22 2006, 10:23 PM)

Yeah, that's pretty much it. all the split really does is make any test using magic attribute use the splitted value, but for determining max potential, etc, you use the full value.

Exactly...split value for magic attribute related test, full value to deteremine potential payload.

Posted by: Abschalten Jan 26 2006, 02:18 AM

I have an email (passed along from a friend) where Rob Boyle himself said that the dice set aside for spellcasting also determines the max Force. In this case, the person would be able to cast at a max Force of 4, and anything over 2 would be overcasting.

I personally think that sucks and makes Mystic Adepts not worth playing, but to each his own.

Posted by: Rick Deckard Jan 26 2006, 02:59 AM

I think Abschalten is correct. Your max force is 2X the number of Magic points put toward Sorcery/Conjuring.

The major advantage to Mystic adepts is that they can use their adept powers to help alleviate some of the spell casting burden...

for example : if you have 5 magic: 2 in adept powers and 3 in spell/ conjuring.

your max force would be 6 for casting spells and summoning spirits (with overcasting).

you could use the 2 power points to on several things:

1. Improved reflexes power at rating 1.(+1 Reaction +1IP for 2 power points). So you don't have to sustain an increased reflexes spell. With 1 more Power point (Imp. Ref. rating 2)you would have 3 IPs and +2 reaction)

2. Any combination of Attribute boost powers ( NOT Improved Attribute) to help bolster the Mystic adepts usually lower Physical attributes. This helps with the spellcasting side too, in that you don't have to purchase increased attribute spells for phyisicals. Since the attribute boost powers are cheap, you have lots of points left for other powers too.

3. is your mystic adept also the face? Try Kinesics. Brilliant!

4. Ability Boosts. Increase your (non magical) combat abilities, or physical skills. You can raise a combat skill from 4 to 6 with 1 power point when it would cost you 22 Karma to do the same. Or, you could increase a physical skill from 4 to 8 with 1 power point, when you otherwise couldn't achieve a level higher than 6 (7 with aptitude)

just to name a few.

the trick is to use your power points to bolster your weaknesses. If you engineer your character correctly, you can do some incredible things.

RD

Posted by: ThreeGee Jan 26 2006, 07:21 PM

QUOTE (Abschalten)

So is there any reason for rules saying this?

QUOTE

Every point of Magic invested in mana-based abilities grants the character one point to use with Magic-based skills. For all other purposes, including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers, the character’s full Magic attribute is used.

The "For ALL other purposes" comment is quite emphatic.

Posted by: Jaid Jan 26 2006, 07:37 PM

so what you're saying is that you don't think spellcasting or conjuring spirits is a magic-based skill?

there has been some discussion on Rob's statement before, in any case. it was suggested that he may have been thinking of SR3 when he answered... but as that is pure speculation, it isn't really even remotely reliable.

Posted by: Brahm Jan 26 2006, 07:46 PM

QUOTE (ThreeGee @ Jan 26 2006, 02:21 PM)

QUOTE (Abschalten)

So is there any reason for rules saying this?

QUOTE

The "For ALL other purposes" comment is quite emphatic.

It is text that could be read either way.

Way to read it that results in smaller force

When you are using that Skill you use the smaller Magic number. When your are Spellcasting you are using a Skill. So when you are using the Skill you use the smaller Magic number to determine the maximum Force you can cast at.

This would also apply for Summoning since it is also a Skill use.

Posted by: Churl Beck Jan 26 2006, 10:46 PM

QUOTE (Abschalten)

I personally think that sucks and makes Mystic Adepts not worth playing, but to each his own.

There are strategies for making strong Mystic Adepts. One thing to try is to put 1 point in Magic and the rest in Power Points. Now one effectively has an Adept who can bond (non-weapon) foci. (And if one's GM is dumb enough to allow it, one could take incompetent in 2 or more Magic skills--and get paid to be an Adept.) With a level 2 Power Focus, one can (over)cast spells up to level 6, and use Attribute Boost (Body) to mitigate the Physical Drain. Or one could bond a Counterspelling Focus in place of Magic Resistance and use the extra Power Points for something else.

The opposite strategy also has some potential: buy 1 Power Point and spend the rest on mana Magic. The Improved Ability Power does not mention Magic skills (even though these would be available to Mystic Adepts), but if the GM were to interpret this Power as costing .5 per level for Magic skills, it would certainly be a cost-effective way of raising one's Spellcasting or Summoning skills. And again, there is the Body Boost to aid in overcasting.

Speaking of Attribute Boost, does anyone else see any potential imbalances? Unlike in previous editions, one's linked attributes now add directly into the skill roll. So an Adept with Magic 6 could, for instance, get Attribute Boost (Agility) 3 and roll (on average) 3 extra dice for all Firearms skills. (And the 3 extra dice make it a little more likely that the firefight will be over before the Boost expires

) And at any rate, if one times a Body Boost to activate after another Boost, the extra Body dice can then be used to resist the first Boost Drain.

Unfortunately, the Qualities/Edges & Flaws system undermines the uniqueness of Adepts, and makes such borderline-illegal strategies more desirable.

--CHuRL

Posted by: Abschalten Jan 27 2006, 02:24 AM

QUOTE (ThreeGee)

QUOTE (Abschalten)

So is there any reason for rules saying this?

QUOTE

The "For ALL other purposes" comment is quite emphatic.

Hey, I'm on your side. I'm torn between taking it as it is out of the book and listening to the lead Developer of the game. I personally like having a max Force of 2x the total Magic Rating.