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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Sensitive System
Posted by: Grinder Jan 22 2006, 10:44 PM
| QUOTE ( SR4 BBB page 83) |
| Sensitive System Bonus: 15 BP A character with the Sensitive System quality has immunosuppressive problems with impants. Double all Essence losses caused by cyberware implants. |
So back in SR3, mages only get a third of the points which a mundane got - when both took the flaw. For me, this is a seriuos mistake, but i couldn't find a correction in the errata.
I would give mages/adepts who take this negative quality only 5 BP and not the whole 15.
Posted by: Squinky Jan 22 2006, 11:19 PM
It seems like a good flaw for the magically inclined, but then again, when the flaw does rear its head up, it's gonna tottally screw that mage that thought he was getting free bp's.
The mage or adept that gets his arm blown off and needs a cyber replacement is gonna get 2 essence loss instead of one, I think the flaw is pretty bad for them.
Posted by: Jaid Jan 22 2006, 11:58 PM
not only that, but i would say that it is now a lot more tempting (IMO) to take a little cyber as a mage...
Posted by: Zen Shooter01 Jan 23 2006, 01:17 AM
Sensitive System is a steal for magicians. An unbalanced steal. Can't take any cyber? Oh well. Console yourself with five more spells, or another skill at 3. Or a whole other point of [/I]either[I] Magic or Edge, take your pick, with 5 bp change.
Posted by: DigitalSoul Jan 23 2006, 01:41 AM
| QUOTE (Squinky) |
| It seems like a good flaw for the magically inclined, but then again, when the flaw does rear its head up, it's gonna tottally screw that mage that thought he was getting free bp's. The mage or adept that gets his arm blown off and needs a cyber replacement is gonna get 2 essence loss instead of one, I think the flaw is pretty bad for them. |
Well there is also getting a cloned replacement but that means getting a good nest egg built up in case that happens. This is why you should get a super-platinum DocWagon subscription ASAP (clone parts maintained and waiting) or get on good terms with a Tanamous contact.
It's not going to screw them, but it might make them think twice about doing too much cash for karma.
Posted by: Angelstandings Jan 23 2006, 01:47 AM
I agree with Grinder. That flaw is a no brainer for magicians.
I can't imagine a magician using a cyberarm because one got blown off... Magicians are karma driven, not resource driven... They should have the cash for a cloned replacement. If not, it would still be better for them to do a run with only one arm to pay for it. 
Posted by: Squinky Jan 23 2006, 02:05 AM
Most Gm's I know make sure to apply penaltys for flaws, so a 15 point flaw would be enforced pretty heavily.
I think it balances out well, as magic folks have more to lose. Getting it for a cybered character would just be dumb...
Posted by: Space Ghost Jan 23 2006, 04:38 AM
Perhaps uncybered mages were meant to get bonuses like this. It could be deliberate game-balance to help with all the BP they have to sink into other things. Also, it doesn't seem odd to me that magical characters would develop a physical aversion to cyberware. We know that they don't mix well, and that screwing up your body messes with your magic. i'm not sure if deadly wounds still make you roll for magic loss like they did in SR3, but it does reinforce the idea. And then there was the fluff text about how drugs can lead to magic burnout. Roll it all together and it makes sense.
Posted by: Cold-Dragon Jan 23 2006, 04:44 AM
some are risky enough to combine cyber to their magical/technical characters, I suppose in a way it's a dare, or else it's more of a creative fluke for the non casters.
I won't object to lowering the bonus for the non-mundanes to it, maybe just 5, or else 10 points. depends how badly people risk burning out.
Posted by: Grinder Jan 23 2006, 05:18 AM
| QUOTE (Space Ghost) |
| Perhaps uncybered mages were meant to get bonuses like this. It could be deliberate game-balance to help with all the BP they have to sink into other things. Also, it doesn't seem odd to me that magical characters would develop a physical aversion to cyberware. |
I agree with you on the point that mages may have an aversion against cyber. But giving them 15 BP for a not-real-threatening flaw/ negative quality because they're hard on BP doesn't make much sense to me. There's no chance for a rigger to get more money for free at chargen - and he could use that!
In SR3 a mage who took this flaw would have get 5 BP instead of 15, just because they're unlikey to ever have cyber installed.
Posted by: Nidhogg Jan 23 2006, 05:35 AM
| QUOTE (Angelstandings) |
| I agree with Grinder. That flaw is a no brainer for magicians. I can't imagine a magician using a cyberarm because one got blown off... Magicians are karma driven, not resource driven... They should have the cash for a cloned replacement. If not, it would still be better for them to do a run with only one arm to pay for it. |
Which is why I let all my players know, very clearly, at the start of each campaign, that I have waved my magical GM's wand and removed all of this cloning-of-limbs foolishness. Organs are fair game, but having entire limbs replaced completly invalidates cyberlimbs from a practical point of view. If your mage's hand gets blown off, tough; take the penalty to essence, or live without a hand.
Posted by: nick012000 Jan 23 2006, 05:52 AM
| QUOTE (Nidhogg) | ||
Which is why I let all my players know, very clearly, at the start of each campaign, that I have waved my magical GM's wand and removed all of this cloning-of-limbs foolishness. Organs are fair game, but having entire limbs replaced completly invalidates cyberlimbs from a practical point of view. If your mage's hand gets blown off, tough; take the penalty to essence, or live without a hand. |
Or go to Tanamous and get a compatable hand, right off of some sod's arm.
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 23 2006, 06:16 AM
Erm, just grow a clone of yourself and lop its hand off. Considering all the biotech abilities of SR, getting a forced growth clone is easy.
Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 23 2006, 08:25 AM
In some ways, sensitive system really screws magicians over in the long term. In the short term, it seems like a great way to min-max character creation but there are simply some things that 'ware does better than magic. A synaptic accelerator can't be dispelled.
Lowered essence costs means that magicians can afford to get some heavy duty enhancments that they simply couldn't consider in SR3.
Posted by: Crusher Bob Jan 23 2006, 08:48 AM
hahaha, sensitive system does not effect the essence cost of synaptic accelerators, since they are bioware. Sensitive system does not effect the essence cost of bioware.
Posted by: Grinder Jan 23 2006, 09:36 AM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Lowered essence costs means that magicians can afford to get some heavy duty enhancments that they simply couldn't consider in SR3. |
Huh? Essence costs are the same to SR3, so of which enhancements are you speaking?
Posted by: Liper Jan 23 2006, 09:57 AM
Things like Str/agi/body don't cost essence to enchance now
it's just limited by having a torso or not.
Posted by: Grinder Jan 23 2006, 09:59 AM
Ok, my fault. But which mage is seriously interested in taking such heavy enhancements?
Posted by: hyzmarca Jan 23 2006, 10:42 AM
Starting with the bizzare chaos mage and ending with the dedicated minmaxer who sees that a synaptic accelerator rating 2 causes less dice pool penalties than sustaining increased reflexes and can't be destroyed as easily as a focus can, plenty.
For the more mundane mage, cybereyes are still the most reliable way to counteract vision modifiers when spellcasting in dangerous situations. Glasses don't cost essence but they also aren't anchored to your skull. This mage could then spend the leftover fractional essence on more useful 'ware, wuch as a skinlink or datajack or implanted comlink.
The part about not altering bioware costs does need to be erated, however.
Posted by: Oracle Jan 23 2006, 11:02 AM
Removing cybereyes from a mage isn't that much more difficult than removing his glasses. *evil*
Posted by: MrMiracle Jan 23 2006, 11:55 AM
When you consider that you have to pay for the Magic attribute, and how high the cost of that final 6th point is, it wouldn't surprise me to see more and more mage/shaman players taking a few handy cyber-toys.
Posted by: Nidhogg Jan 23 2006, 01:44 PM
| QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
| Erm, just grow a clone of yourself and lop its hand off. Considering all the biotech abilities of SR, getting a forced growth clone is easy. |
If I don't allow limb cloning, I sure as hell am not going to allow a full body clone.
Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Jan 23 2006, 01:49 PM
| QUOTE (Nidhogg) |
| If I don't allow limb cloning, I sure as hell am not going to allow a full body clone. |
Oh - that's just how bioware is created, too, since SR1.
Posted by: BlackHat Jan 23 2006, 01:53 PM
| QUOTE (MrMiracle) |
| When you consider that you have to pay for the Magic attribute, and how high the cost of that final 6th point is, it wouldn't surprise me to see more and more mage/shaman players taking a few handy cyber-toys. |
Wouldn't the 5th point be just as expensive if you took Cyberware, since you'd still be maxing your magic attribute out? Essense loss reduces the current and maximum ratings, right? Or is there even a maximum rating on magic?
Posted by: Nidhogg Jan 23 2006, 01:56 PM
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) | ||
Oh - that's just how bioware is created, too, since SR1. |
I allow organ cloning, just not limbs. I used to justify this with some pseudo-scientific spiel about how certain protiens an sinews degrade badly during the artificial aging process, but eventualy just started falling back the old "it just IS this way" excuse.
Posted by: Nidhogg Jan 23 2006, 01:58 PM
| QUOTE (BlackHat) | ||
Wouldn't the 5th point be just as expensive if you took Cyberware, since you'd still be maxing your magic attribute out? Essense loss reduces the current and maximum ratings, right? Or is there even a maximum rating on magic? |
Essence, rounded down, plus Initiate grades.
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