Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Over Powered Characters
Posted by: wolfshui Mar 12 2006, 09:37 AM
Have you run in to any overpowered characters at creation? i have a friend that has designed an 80m/h troll, and i have created a dwarf that can walk right up behind you and kill with one hit without you knowing he is there. now i admit i am not great at character creating, i am still perfecting the dwarf, but its still an overpowerd character in my opinion.
Posted by: eralston Mar 12 2006, 10:39 AM
Hmmm, lemme think...
In 2nd ed:
Adept sniper with strategic cyberware could throw 25 dice as a single shot
2nd ed memories mostly repressed...
In 3rd ed:
Medium anthroforms in general are crazy (they get to go full move w/o accelerating, carry vehicle armor, get enhanced rigger reactions)
Creating super-sonic motorbikes then using them as offensive weaponry (the chain of upgrades is too elaborate to really detail here, just know it's possible)
Ghouls with movements increases that stack with their increased move is crazy (espicially with the adept handybook legs of the wind, we made a guy who totally could have liquifide his own innards)
Shapeshifters in general. Especially eagle magicians and tiger adepts.
dryad+exceptional attribute(cha)+beautiful and knows it+sexy voices (sex in the shadows)+tailored pheremones+cosmetic mod surgery+psychology skill= social awesomeness
gnome+albino+exceptional attribute (will) = willpower 10, spell pool 7 to start (AKA super-gnome)
super-gnome+shaman+ 5 sorcery:7 spellcasting sorcery skill= 16 die fireballs, manaballs, or other spells
boosted reflexes+reaction enhancers+cerebral booster+ lightning reflexes = 22+5d6 initiative
Ambidexterity 6 or 8+increased skill 6 (adept power)+skilled weapon in both hands = beaucoup dice (18+combat pool if memory serves)
Using the spell design rules, create a sustained damaging spell (ex: fireball with the sustained modifier) is pretty crazy. One could also create an elemental manip with more than one element type (an acid, fire, ice ball), though it would be highly draining.
4th edition...
Who cares about 4th edition? I already play a white wolf game
Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Mar 12 2006, 10:48 AM
3rd edition didn't allow for sustaining damage spells. Second did though. Mana cloud was one of my favorites.
A street sam named Johnny Hardcore was probably the scariest I've seen at char gen. He was completely cyber, and survived a car wreck at high speeds, when he was on top of the car that wrecked. That's just not right.
There was that one attempt that the same player made at making an albino gnome otaku, but I declared him still born and that was that.
Posted by: mfb Mar 12 2006, 12:06 PM
off the top of my head... almost all of my characters. i haven't made the worst one, though: a max Str cyclops adept with dual hand razors, imp ability: implant weapons, and muscle aug 4 (houseruled so that bioware advances the natural limit rather than being capped by it). 13 dice before CP on a 23L attack.
| QUOTE (fistandantilus 3.0) |
| and survived a car wreck at high speeds, when he was on top of the car that wrecked. That's just not right. |
hee hee! i've http://www.shadowland.org/Shadowland/Private%20Campaigns/objects/page8852.html. it's a good feeling.
Posted by: SL James Mar 12 2006, 01:36 PM
23L? You mean 23LN, right?
And that was hardly a high-speed crash, though only because the crazy elf mage pulled a Morpheus in Matrix Reloaded and tried to slice the fucking thing in half (and halfway succeeded, so he kind of quartered it, I guess).
Damn S and his "I'm not in the mood to game" stuff. Right in the middle of an ass-kicking, too.
Posted by: Ankle Biter Mar 12 2006, 01:55 PM
| QUOTE (mfb) | ||
off the top of my head... almost all of my characters. i haven't made the worst one, though: a max Str cyclops adept with dual hand razors, imp ability: implant weapons, and muscle aug 4 (houseruled so that bioware advances the natural limit rather than being capped by it). 13 dice before CP on a 23L attack.
hee hee! i've http://www.shadowland.org/Shadowland/Private%20Campaigns/objects/page8852.html. it's a good feeling. |
Why did you not Dikote the hand razors?
Here's the 3rd ed I would do... Cyclops ghoul Phys ad, maxed strength bioware (note that Bioware reduces effective max magic rating, not magic rating, you can still get skills but their max level is limited)... As many points of phys ad strength as bioware allows, that barrier breaking blow, delayed blow, touch version, perfect time, some unarmed combat buffs, demolitions skill, and unarmed combart skill. if you can blag it natural ability at unarmed versus buildings, and focused concentration...
I will walk around this skyscraper, tap the support pillars once each at carefully determined places, I walk out of the building and 5 minutes later it collapeses.
The numbers...
Highest barrier rating in the game, 46 for a MILITARY REENFORCED BUNKER.
Highest strength a cyclops can easily reach at start up 21
the destroy barrier skill says compare str + unarmed combat successes to half barrier rating to see barrier effect. Barrier effect table says if you beat 1/2 (reduced) barrier rating, the barrier rating is reduced by 1. If you get 2 successes on unarmed combat, bringing total to 23 then you knock a 1 meter hole in the barrier.
I can knock down a presidential nuclear bunker with 5 minutes work. by brushing against it.
Posted by: hyzmarca Mar 12 2006, 06:03 PM
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=2433&hl=wallhacker
That's right folks, 48S in melee.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=3672&hl=wallhacker. If you ever need a cheap tank killer dikoted cyberspirs on a vehicle is the way to go.
Posted by: Wounded Ronin Mar 12 2006, 09:15 PM
Well, my favorite over the top character was a troll physad with a dikoted rating 6 weapon focus claymore with Improved Ability: Edged Weapons. Even though you can't bond the focus at chargen as soon as it activates in play you'd be playing with 18 dice base with a huge TN bonus.
Of course, I always want to have a challenge when I'm playing and I don't want my characters to be too powerful. So, for that adept, I made him only wear Conan leather underwear, ever, so that he never had any armor. This made him a lot more vulnerable than he could have been to ranged attacks which in turn forced me to play him more strategically.
Posted by: Glyph Mar 13 2006, 06:15 AM
Well, to add an SR4 character, there's always my Pornomancer Adept from http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=11911&st=25&hl= thread.
Posted by: Sahandrian Mar 13 2006, 08:15 AM
There was this one time we allowed flechette ammo to be dikoted, and I made a pistol adept with an AVS...
But let's not talk about that.
Posted by: Foreigner Mar 13 2006, 01:55 PM
| QUOTE (Sahandrian) |
| There was this one time we allowed flechette ammo to be dikoted, and I made a pistol adept with an AVS... But let's not talk about that. |
Sahandrian:
Awww, why not? <pouts>
--Foreigner
Posted by: Birdy Mar 13 2006, 02:55 PM
Overpowered Characters in SR3: That is easy, look for a Magic Attribute > 0
Posted by: Lindt Mar 13 2006, 08:21 PM
| QUOTE (Ankle Biter) |
| ... Cyclops ghoul Phys ad, maxed strength bioware |
I assume this was post change surgery?
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Mar 13 2006, 09:41 PM
Yes indeed, many times over. One of the more annoying ones was an elf Sam with a Reaction of 19. Basically, there was little point in even bothering with surprise situations. Couldn't realistically justify the Russian & Serbian Military spending that much to chrome up their personnel.
Finally took designing a couple of elite "Soldier-X" Cyberzombies to beat him.
Posted by: brennanhawkwood Mar 13 2006, 09:44 PM
One the nastiest ones I can remember the details of was a 2nd or 3ed troll with maxed out strength and the fancy bow (ranger-x?)...did obscene damage opposed by impact armor and could hit a target almost a klick away (with fair reliability if conditions weren't too heavily stacked against him).
Posted by: Ophis Mar 14 2006, 12:40 AM
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| Yes indeed, many times over. One of the more annoying ones was an elf Sam with a Reaction of 19. Basically, there was little point in even bothering with surprise situations. Couldn't realistically justify the Russian & Serbian Military spending that much to chrome up their personnel. Finally took designing a couple of elite "Soldier-X" Cyberzombies to beat him. |
19! is that it? I have run several campaigns with every thug having reactions over 19!
Though wireds and reflex enhancers will do that.
Try surprising some one with 24 reactions!
Sorry I appear to have gone into rant mode...
Posted by: Fix-it Mar 14 2006, 12:50 AM
Riggers.
End of Thread.
Posted by: Platinum Mar 14 2006, 01:22 AM
| QUOTE (Ophis @ Mar 13 2006, 08:40 PM) | ||
19! is that it? I have run several campaigns with every thug having reactions over 19! Though wireds and reflex enhancers will do that. Try surprising some one with 24 reactions! Sorry I appear to have gone into rant mode... |
not when you are starting I started with 4d6+17,(back in sr2, before flaws and no more metahuman rule) then worked up from there. Admittedly I had after a year I had 4d6+27 with him, which sometimes caused problems for the group, because I was so quick. Sometimes I would come against a cyberzombie or a group of gangers jazzed up on drugs and with boosted reflexes. Friends in combat mods made things difficult for me.
Posted by: Ankle Biter Mar 30 2006, 10:03 PM
| QUOTE (Fix-it) |
| Riggers. End of Thread. |
"Zapper" static discharge rocket. Thread re-opened. Man that thing made taking over rigged buildings easy.
step one jack into building
step two trigger alert and get the rigger and his buddies jack in,
step three jack out as your buddy fires the zapper at a nearby camera.
step four jack in again and laugh at your opposition's smouldering corpses.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Mar 30 2006, 10:22 PM
| QUOTE (Ankle Biter) | ||
"Zapper" static discharge rocket. Thread re-opened. |
Vehicle dodge rules. Thread re-closed.
~J
Posted by: nezumi Mar 30 2006, 10:39 PM
I found one of my old character sheets. A shifter with 18+6d6 initiative. I know someone asked me about it before, I can bring it to work and transcribe it now, if people are curious.
3rd edition shifter anything is overpowered.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Mar 31 2006, 12:38 AM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| 3rd edition shifter anything is overpowered. |
Not really. Is that init score in human form? How many skills does this guy have? Awakened or does he just have a massive "dual-natured and can't do squat about it" flaw for free?
Shifters get the shaft, though Mages and Adepts can make up for it somewhat.
~J
Posted by: hyzmarca Mar 31 2006, 12:55 AM
Shifters only get the shaft if your GM doesn't allow PCs to take Sacrificing. If you can get that metamagic an approperatly minmaxed Shifter magician can tear through most opposition without breaking a sweat.
Posted by: Lindt Mar 31 2006, 01:06 AM
You mean that metamagic that its not recommended PCs have acess to?
Shifters DO get the shaft in most cases. Unless they are adepts.
Well I DO remember this one charcter (a shamen) who would invis himself, poison his blade, and use it in conjunction with death touch to deal 2 deadlys and a serious all to one target in one attack. I didnt like that guy.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Mar 31 2006, 01:11 AM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Shifters only get the shaft if your GM doesn't allow PCs to take Sacrificing. If you can get that metamagic an approperatly minmaxed Shifter magician can tear through most opposition without breaking a sweat. |
And if you allow the Path of the Righ, an appropriately minmaxed Full Mage can tear through most opposition. Likewise for PCs with Potency.
You get the idea.
~J
Posted by: Taran Mar 31 2006, 01:38 AM
Aw, come on, Shifter + Sacrificing is a nifty trick. Gives me a nice idea for an NPC.
Anyway, I had a shifter PC in my game. I even let him cheat on attributes some. While he did some cool things, he was pretty drastically under-skilled for a character without equipment or magic.
Posted by: Glyph Mar 31 2006, 03:51 AM
Shifters were hardly a min-maxers choice, although the powerful (but overrated) ability of regeneration probably made them attractive to munchkins.
When you pay 25 points on top of paying for being awakened (and mundane shifters are really hosed), then have to buy 9, rather than 6, Attributes... well, the result is usually something other than "overpowered".
The only really decent build is a fox shifter full shaman. You can max out the mental Attributes, low physical Attributes in both forms are actually plausible, and you can start out with a character who is all-around good at magic and has regeneration. Plus, the fox form is small and has an initiative boost. My favorite magic builds are still the elven shaman and the Priority: A resources dwarven sorcerer, but fox shifter shamans aren't that bad.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Mar 31 2006, 04:00 AM
They get shafted by the fact that despite being foxes who can take human form, only the human form can use magic.
~J
Posted by: Straw Man Mar 31 2006, 04:04 AM
Brightlights+Dikote Hand Razors+VenomSacks+Bliss+hyper combo: soak 3 seperate damage codes after the cyber-implant resolves, and take all subsequent actions at anywhere from +5-+10 TN. (Brightlights, Stun damage mod, phys damage mod, bliss effect, hyper effect)
Yes, I'm a bad person. But at least I'm not breaking out the 19+1d6 Ambidextrous Skillwires 6/36MP monstrosity. That guy gets ugly when he's on combat drugs.
Posted by: hyzmarca Mar 31 2006, 04:10 AM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| They get shafted by the fact that despite being foxes who can take human form, only the human form can use magic. ~J |
Shapeshifter magicians can use all of their abilities in either form, unless they take a gesture or incantation geas that their animal form cannot fullfill. . It is Shapeshifter Adepts whose powers are limited to human form.
Posted by: Lindt Mar 31 2006, 04:30 AM
HA! All I can invision is the little red fox sitting on the chair summoning a high force nature spirit...
So I take my comment about shifter-adepts back. They get pooched.
Posted by: Kagetenshi Mar 31 2006, 04:34 AM
Gah, you're right. My error.
~J
Posted by: Foreigner Mar 31 2006, 01:52 PM
| QUOTE (Lindt) |
| HA! All I can invision is the little red fox sitting on the chair summoning a high force nature spirit... So I take my comment about shifter-adepts back. They get pooched. |
Lindt:
Very punny! Very punny!
Or was that bit ("fox {shifters}....get pooched.") unintentional?
BTW: It's "ENvision", not "INvision".
ACK! Proofreader training again.
--Foreigner
Posted by: Lindt Mar 31 2006, 02:29 PM
Envision... envision... I am why the grammer checkers was invented.
Posted by: nezumi Mar 31 2006, 02:47 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Not really. Is that init score in human form? How many skills does this guy have? Awakened or does he just have a massive "dual-natured and can't do squat about it" flaw for free? |
An adept. That was in animal form (the GM agreed that since the animal form is the NATURAL form, adept powers should apply to that form. So at that point I realize the character isn't strictly canon.)
I also noted the character had the 'lightning reflexes' edge. This is SR2 so I don't remember if that would have added to the initiative or not. By SR3, it wouldn't work any more.
Posted by: nick012000 Mar 31 2006, 02:50 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 30 2006, 08:11 PM) | ||
And if you allow the Path of the Righ, an appropriately minmaxed Full Mage can tear through most opposition. Likewise for PCs with Potency. You get the idea. ~J |
Well, if you make the player buy the Potency with Karma at the same cost as Initiation, it'll work out to about the same thing. You get the +1 Magic just the same, a bonus die in your Potency pool instead of your Astral pool, and a social stigma from the acts you've performed (and possibly a bounty on your head, depending on the type of Threat you are).
Just replace the ordeals and metamagic groups with appropriate Potency-increasing acts.
Posted by: toturi Mar 31 2006, 02:59 PM
Dude, don't make shapeshifters if you want to min-max. Get yourself a free spirit with low Spirit Energy Hidden Essense instead.
Of course, there's always the Background 10 virtuso initiated adept. Not to mention the Background 10 virtuso initiated magician adept. Now that's min-maxing.
Posted by: Bodak Apr 24 2006, 09:16 AM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) | ||
Shapeshifter magicians can use all of their abilities in either form, unless they take a gesture or incantation geas that their animal form cannot fullfill. . It is Shapeshifter Adepts whose powers are limited to human form. |
Shapeshifter full magicians cannot Astrally Project while in animal form; only in human form.
Posted by: De Badd Ass Apr 24 2006, 09:32 AM
It's impossible for EVERY character to be overpowered. That's implied by the prefix OVER. Maybe we should put all these characters in a ring, and crown the one that survives.
Nevermind. FASA tried that already. It's called BattleTech. Anybody see the movie Robot Jox? That one wins the prize for worst movie derived from a game or comic book.
EDIT: I stand corrected. They made a sequel. As I didn't see it (and never will, cause I didn't get my money back from the first one) I have no idea if this one resembles BattleTech at all.
Posted by: SL James Apr 24 2006, 10:27 AM
You obviously haven't seen the Hasselhoff made-for-tv Nick Fury movie.
Compared to that, Robot Jox is Lawrence of Arabia.
Posted by: hyzmarca Apr 24 2006, 12:36 PM
| QUOTE (Bodak) | ||||
Shapeshifter full magicians cannot Astrally Project while in animal form; only in human form. |
Which makes no sense. Of course, this limitation is explicitly limitd to full magicians which means that shapeshifters who want to project in animal form should just be aspected magicians instead and save a few BP.
And yes, a certain interpertation of the rules allows aspected Shapeshifters to project. According to Critters any dual natured critter with magic skills can astrally project. Sahpeshifters are critters.
Posted by: Bodak Apr 24 2006, 01:31 PM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Of course, this limitation is explicitly limitd to full magicians which means that shapeshifters who want to project in animal form should just be aspected magicians instead and save a few BP. |
Aspected magicians / shamen cannot project, only perceive.
Posted by: hyzmarca Apr 24 2006, 02:27 PM
| QUOTE (Critters p.5) |
| Dual beings with magical skills are capable of astral projection. |
The rule doesn't differentiate between aspected and full magicians. All dual beings with any magical skills are capable of astral projection by default. Shapeshifters are dual beings.
Posted by: Platinum Apr 24 2006, 02:33 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) | ||
An adept. That was in animal form (the GM agreed that since the animal form is the NATURAL form, adept powers should apply to that form. So at that point I realize the character isn't strictly canon.) I also noted the character had the 'lightning reflexes' edge. This is SR2 so I don't remember if that would have added to the initiative or not. By SR3, it wouldn't work any more. |
Nezumi, did you have a chance to transcribe this beast yet? I am guessing that this char is not cannon. Lightning reflexes doesn't add dice, and the reaction bonus doesn't add to initiative.
In SR2 if you used the priorites system shifters were tough. Paying for attributes twice is one of the stupidest rules I have seen and I just disregarded it, it should be simple. you have your attribs, and you gain modifiers in shifted form.
How long till they just give physads get the regen power? 6 magic points for regen.
Posted by: nezumi Apr 24 2006, 02:42 PM
| QUOTE (Platinum) |
| In SR2 if you used the priorites system shifters were tough. Paying for attributes twice is one of the stupidest rules I have seen and I just disregarded it, it should be simple. you have your attribs, and you gain modifiers in shifted form. |
Since you've asked, I will go ahead and do it (now that I know where the sheet is).
The paying for physical attributes twice is an SR3, not SR2 rule. In SR2 you only paid for them once, however you didn't get regeneration in human form and it was slower.
Posted by: Trax Apr 24 2006, 08:56 PM
My GM once told me of a party member who's Ork starting character had a body of 20.
Posted by: Foreigner Apr 24 2006, 11:44 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| And if you allow the Path of the Righ, an appropriately minmaxed Full Mage can tear through most opposition. Likewise for PCs with Potency. You get the idea. ~J |
Kagetenshi:
I read through that part of MITS earlier--mainly because I couldn't remember what the "Path of the Righ" was--and the book said that it was intended for NPCs only.
Not that I'm arguing, mind you. GM's discretion, and all that.
Hmm. I wonder if an assassin PC could follow that Path?
--Foreigner
Posted by: Kagetenshi Apr 24 2006, 11:58 PM
| QUOTE (Foreigner) |
| Kagetenshi: I read through that part of MITS earlier--mainly because I couldn't remember what the "Path of the Righ" was--and the book said that it was intended for NPCs only. |
You have discovered my point.
~J
Posted by: Foreigner Apr 25 2006, 12:41 AM
Kagetenshi:
OUCH!
So *that's* what was poking me--I thought that one of my cats was trying to get my attention.... Feeding time again, or something.
--Foreigner
Posted by: Bodak May 3 2006, 04:12 AM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) | ||
The rule doesn't differentiate between aspected and full magicians. All dual beings with any magical skills are capable of astral projection by default. Shapeshifters are dual beings. |
But much like how the PC ghoul type is a nerfed version of the NPC Critter, PC shapeshifters differ from the Critter shapeshifters. Quoting from Critters is perfectly appropriate when discussing a Critter. But when debating a PC ghoul or shifter, MitS's ruling does differentiate between aspected and full magicians.
| QUOTE (MitS p36) |
| Shapeshifter full magicians can only use astral projection when in human form. Their statistics while astrally projecting are equal to their human Mental Attributes, as normal. |
You cannot seriously rule that a Magic:E combat shapeshifter with 1 rank in Aura Reading can astrally project at any time in either form whereas a Magic:A full mage with Sorcery6 and Conjuring6 is restricted to only projecting when in human form? Clearly PC shapeshifters are different to NPC Critters. The Critter is a creature with its attributes and monster stats and class abilities and everything all rolled into one, and as such the package-deal includes projection. A PC gets to choose its stats, and takes on a class profile and decide how magically active the character will be. If they choose a class incapable of projection, then they have a shapeshifter incapable of projection.
Posted by: hyzmarca May 3 2006, 06:18 AM
| QUOTE (Bodak) |
| You cannot seriously rule that a Magic:E combat shapeshifter with 1 rank in Aura Reading can astrally project at any time in either form whereas a Magic:A full mage with Sorcery6 and Conjuring6 is restricted to only projecting when in human form? |
Surely I can. That is what the relevant rules suggest when taken as written.
Posted by: Kagetenshi May 3 2006, 06:36 AM
That is incorrect.
| QUOTE (Critters page 5) |
| Keep in mind that, unlike characters, critters |
Characters are not Critters, Critters are not Characters. End of story.
~J
Posted by: HMHVV Hunter May 3 2006, 07:18 PM
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||
That is incorrect.
Characters are not Critters, Critters are not Characters. End of story. ~J |
Then how come both shapeshifters and ghouls can be PCs? Both of them are listed as critters.
Posted by: James McMurray May 3 2006, 07:20 PM
Both of them have different rules and stats when used as PCs.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)