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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Ally Spirits
Posted by: TimeKeeper Oct 9 2003, 10:18 AM
:walks into forum. Pulls out a can that doesn't have a lable:
So I'm writin' this story... It's on Strobe's site but I won't advertise where that is...
:Pulls out a can opener:
Anyway, I did a search on Alley Spirits and found something...
:Starts opening can. Slowly. All the while pacing the room:
Or rather, didn't find something.
See, on the old forums, a bunch of us had this disscustion about just what a mage (or shaman) can and can't do with his/her ally spirit.
Eventually (or maybe it was even the original question posted) but it came about to sex.
:TK trips, spilling the contents of the can. Worms fly everywhere.:
Anyway, one of the characters has an ally spirit that he has a very close relationship with. He wants her to be human and he even plans on setting her free. I know that there is a canon source that a free spirit has fallen in love with a human, but what about in this case?
If this sound muddled, let me know, I'll try and clear it up some.
Posted by: Munchkinslayer Oct 9 2003, 10:22 AM
Didn't the first Shadowrun novel (can't remember the name, it was a trilogy) briefly have a fella with a familiar "girlfriend"? Anybody? Or should I lay down the crack pipe?
Posted by: TimeKeeper Oct 9 2003, 10:40 AM
Nahhh... just pass it over here for a bit.
Recall what the triliogy was named?
Posted by: Munchkinslayer Oct 9 2003, 11:19 AM
Written by Robert Charrette. I think one of the books is called "find your own truth" and another is called "never trust an elf."
Posted by: Abstruse Oct 9 2003, 12:06 PM
The Secrets of Power trilogy, "Never Deal with a Dragon", "Choose Your Enemies Carefully", and "Find Your Own Truth". I can't remember much about Secrets of Power, but one of the adventures (I think it was an adventure in one of the "compilation" adventures like Shadows of the Underworld) has a free spirit that falls in love with the mage who summoned him.
The Abstruse One
Posted by: Cain Oct 9 2003, 07:40 PM
I remember the book, but the title eludes me at present. However, it wasn't an ally, it was a Free spirit Anima who had developed an affection for a mage.
Posted by: Mr. Unpronounceable Oct 9 2003, 09:00 PM
2XS
If the one you're thinking of got flattened by a couple of bug spirits, anyway.
Posted by: TimeKeeper Oct 9 2003, 09:01 PM
Yes, that was the canon source I reffered too.
Before I go any further, how do I do that little spoiler thingy?
Posted by: Mr. Unpronounceable Oct 9 2003, 09:08 PM
Posted by: Kanada Ten Oct 9 2003, 10:14 PM
| QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable) |
| 2XS If the one you're thinking of got flattened by a couple of bug spirits, anyway. |
Speaking of bugs, Bug City mentions a Mantis Mother that falls in love with a human.
Silly Mantis, humans are for dinner. @,@
Posted by: Fygg Nuuton Oct 9 2003, 10:43 PM
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) |
| Silly Mantis, humans are for dinner. @,@ |
HA!
Posted by: ialdabaoth Oct 9 2003, 10:47 PM
An interesting bit of munchkinism to watch out for:
A free Ally Spirit is a MUCH more powerful being than a bound Ally spirit. One, it gets Spirit Energy. Two, it gets access to new powers that it normally wouldn't. Three, it can cast Sorcery with NO DRAIN.
Think about all that for a moment.
Posted by: Senchae Oct 9 2003, 11:22 PM
But it's really only munchkinny if the GM allows it to be. The ally doesn't have to stay with the magician once freed.
Posted by: Friggas Ring Oct 10 2003, 02:08 AM
Y'know, I've heard several stories about a magician dating a free spirit, but I've never heard of a magician breaking up with a free spirit. *grin*
Posted by: TimeKeeper Oct 10 2003, 07:22 AM
Yeah, well Johnner's kinda dense so you might see it happen in my universe (not this story but perhaps later on in another story.)
Basicly the Spirit cares for Johnner deeply. But I'm try to get the main character (Drake)'s point of view across.
It's something like Incest/Masterbation/something else rolled into one.
I mean the spirit's born from you an a sense (that magic point) but it's also an extention of yourself (why the mental stats are the same as the mage). What are other people's views on this?
Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Oct 10 2003, 07:59 AM
| QUOTE (TimeKeeper) |
| What are other people's views on this? |
By UCAS law, none of those matter. They defined marriage as yet another social contract, so as long as both parties meet the legal requirements to be an adult of their species, it is acceptable. At least as far as the law is concerned. As for that guy on the corner, you're probably better off just killing him before he starts talking.
Posted by: rlemansky Oct 10 2003, 11:01 AM
Greetings.
Relationships with spirits can be...complex.
The first issue is the very nature of spirits. Are they independent entities? If so, then the relationships are pretty much the same as with other lifeforms-maybe a bit better. A girl who could take any shape, maybe even change shape, appear and disappear at will-non too shabby. But, if she has a telepathic link to ALL of your thoughts, watch out.
If spirits are bits of the Ether imbued with a fragment of the mage's will/personality, then one has to consider the nature of normal relationships before bashing spirit-ual ones. How often do we project qualities on our partner-at-the-time? How often are those qualities actually possessed, as opposed to ferevntly hoped for by us? Don't we often look for partners who are much like us, or ones who are not our opposities but complements?
One of the 'Laws of Magik' is (paraphrased): 'Any complex pattern of energy can be considered to be a Person, and should be treated as a Person.' We corporeal beings ARE merely complex patterns of energy (there's really no such thing as 'solid matter', merely virtual particles popping into and out of exsistence in a somewhat stable pattern-look up 'tunneling', it'll blow your mind), and much of our personality (person-hood?) comes from our folks (genetics) and our social interactions and situations (environment). This set-up allows for some crazy, unstable mixes (and people). Do we intentionally pick a partner from a specific social group or with a particualr form, or is it random, catch as catch can? Why not 'make one to order' as with Ally spirits.
There are a few groups out there, in RL that actually deal with these issues. And, if you've never been with a succubus, your loss. It's a simple ritual, really...
My two nuyen.
Posted by: TimeKeeper Oct 10 2003, 11:21 AM
| QUOTE |
| There are a few groups out there, in RL that actually deal with these issues. And, if you've never been with a succubus, your loss. It's a simple ritual, really... |
Ok, 1) That scares me. The groups not the Succubus.
and 2) I don't thing I'd want to be with a succubus. I've already been down that road. I couldn't truely enjoy her company because I'd be constantly asking myself "What does this 12 or a 10 scale want with ME?"
also 3) I'd like to keep my soul/emotions for as long as possible. And when I do give it up I'd like to get the best price available.
I guess I'll just contine protrating Ruby (the spirit) as The Fifth Element (as in the character) and Johnner less then receptive towards her feelings. (Does he just not care or does he just not see it?)
Posted by: Stormdrake Oct 10 2003, 03:03 PM
Not sure if this fits with the heading ally spirit but here it goes. True drakes are created in much the same way as an Ally spirit including the sacrifice of a magic point. So what happens when one of them goes free? Are they considered to be living beings and there fore can acquire karma on their own or are they treated like free spirits and must receive donations? If they are treated like free spirits would they have some thing similar to spirit energy? As Big D probably had at least one true drake that he created the possibility does exsist.
Posted by: BitBasher Oct 10 2003, 03:43 PM
| QUOTE |
| True drakes are created in much the same way as an Ally spirit including the sacrifice of a magic point. |
Posted by: Stormdrake Oct 10 2003, 04:14 PM
The rules for creating PC Drakes are in DOT6W. However PC Drakes are considered to be Breed Drakes (aka racial). True Drakes are created like a Ally Spirit by the Dragon. True Drakes are the Dragons alternate to an Ally Spirit. DOT6W suggests that ST only allow PC to play the weaker (Breeding) type.
Posted by: locomotiveman Oct 10 2003, 09:39 PM
TimeKeeper, how large a RPG community is there on Guam?
Posted by: Munchkinslayer Oct 11 2003, 11:44 AM
| QUOTE (locomotiveman) |
| TimeKeeper, how large a RPG community is there on Guam? |
I think you're talkin' to it.
Posted by: Stormdrake Oct 11 2003, 05:44 PM
Guess I will have to make a house ruling for my game and declare "true" drakes to be the same as manifested free spirits. It will increase their nastiness factor by allowing them spirit energy but limit them by forcing them to get karma as gifts. As the only sources were such free true drakes could originate would be Big D or the Great Dragon that died in Germany it narrows down the number and personalities.
Posted by: TimeKeeper Oct 11 2003, 09:54 PM
Yeah, A 24-hour nap really does wonders for the system.
As far as I can tell I AM the entire roleplaying community here on guam.
(As someone stated.)
Although there is a rather large Paintball community (I'll get into that) and there are a couple of hobby stores I have yet to check out.
Posted by: Pelaka Jul 18 2004, 08:22 PM
Sorry to rez this old topic, but it really got me thinking. OK, some 16 year old prepubecent wiz kid makes an ally spirit girlfriend. Now, the $1000 question... is does the ally without cloths count as a different "form" then the ally with cloths? 
Pel
Posted by: The Question Man Jul 18 2004, 08:40 PM
Hoi Chummer, check out Steve Kenson's Talon Studio's Articals here http://members.aol.com/talonmail/familiar.html
Cheers 
QM
Posted by: BitBasher Jul 18 2004, 09:58 PM
| QUOTE (Pelaka) |
| Sorry to rez this old topic, but it really got me thinking. OK, some 16 year old prepubecent wiz kid makes an ally spirit girlfriend. Now, the $1000 question... is does the ally without cloths count as a different "form" then the ally with cloths? Pel |
Aside from the link posted above, I would say yes. It does. Those are two different visual forms.
Posted by: Aesir Jul 18 2004, 11:15 PM
Id give the spirit some leeway to change its appearance by will without it counting as a new form. For example clothes to no clothes, or minor changes to colour/length of hair and different clothes. It just makes sense to me that the appearance of a spirit is less a given thing than with a physical being. I dont let this become to much of an advantage though. If the player thinks it would be a good idea for the spirit to have a lone star uniform, or anything as specific as that, that would have to be a new form.
Blackwood Farm by Anne Rice is a book you should read if your interested in spirit/human love affairs. Its about a young man and his familiar. Its deeply erotic and written in that oldtime shellyish-gothic-romantic style I so like about Anne Rice. It shows a perfect example of what could happen when the relationship goes bad between a mage and his/her ally. Something that couldnīt be to uncommon judging from human relationships. Scary stuff. Homofobes be warned though.
Posted by: Bigity Jul 18 2004, 11:34 PM
| QUOTE (ialdabaoth) |
| An interesting bit of munchkinism to watch out for: A free Ally Spirit is a MUCH more powerful being than a bound Ally spirit. One, it gets Spirit Energy. Two, it gets access to new powers that it normally wouldn't. Three, it can cast Sorcery with NO DRAIN. Think about all that for a moment. |
Free spirits take no drain from spellcasting? Reference please...I've been ripping off free spirits I think
Posted by: Necrotic Monkey Jul 19 2004, 01:20 AM
Magic in the Shadows, p. 118, "Sorcery."
Posted by: Apathy Jul 19 2004, 04:48 AM
| QUOTE |
| Free spirits take no drain from spellcasting? |
Is it restricted to only free spirits? I had thought it was all spirits that had sorcery (i.e. including allies).
[edit] My bad...I just looked it up:
| QUOTE |
| Allies are subject to the normal rules for Sorcery, including Drain. An ally that suffers Deadly Stun damage is disrupted. If Drain causes Deadly Physical damage, the ally is destroyed. |
Guess I need to pay more attention next time...
Posted by: OurTeam Jul 19 2004, 07:43 AM
| QUOTE (Pelaka @ Jul 18 2004, 01:22 PM) |
| does the ally without cloths count as a different "form" then the ally with cloths? |
Posted by: tisoz Jul 19 2004, 12:20 PM
So if the ally has a clothed form, what happens to the clothes when it removes them?
1) Can not be removed.
2) They evaporate into the astral.
3) They lie in a pile on the floor.
Posted by: toturi Jul 19 2004, 12:42 PM
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| 3) They lie in a pile on the floor. |
If it is a materialised spirit, does its clothes get Immuity to Normal Weapons too? And can I wear them?
Posted by: BitBasher Jul 19 2004, 03:39 PM
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| So if the ally has a clothed form, what happens to the clothes when it removes them? 1) Can not be removed. 2) They evaporate into the astral. 3) They lie in a pile on the floor. |
4) It cannot remove them
The clothes are integral to it's form, just like you trying to remove your skin. They look like clothes but in reality they are literally the spirit. The clothes are not separate entities. One way around this is to carry basic slothes for your ally to wear if they are to manifest for long periods.
Posted by: Necrotic Monkey Jul 19 2004, 03:48 PM
5) It doesn't remove them at all, it just wills them away. Much like how a projecting magician can will their clothing into anything they like, including nothing at all, when they astrally project. An ally spirit is doing the same thing just in reverse.
Posted by: Zazen Jul 19 2004, 05:45 PM
| QUOTE (BitBasher) | ||
4) It cannot remove them |
Don't make us waste numbers
Posted by: BitBasher Jul 19 2004, 07:40 PM
| QUOTE (Zazen) | ||||
Don't make us waste numbers |
I wanted an extra thing though!
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