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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ SR4 on a battlemap
Posted by: masterpenguin Apr 24 2006, 03:13 PM
If this is a reposted question, then please just link me, however I did search for it, and couldn't find anyone who posted about this.
I'm looking for examples of how to run battles on a battlemap (either hex or square), as the book doesn't seem to touch on it at all. Any suggestions or pointers?
I'd hate to come up with my own system because I'll feel like I'm reinventing the wheel.
Posted by: the_dunner Apr 24 2006, 03:30 PM
Not to be snide, and perhaps I'm being naive, but ... Movement rates are SR4 p.138. Ranges are p. 139. Cover modifiers are p.140. What are you looking for beyond that?
Posted by: dcpirahna Apr 24 2006, 03:30 PM
We use squares and just kind of assume that every square equal X meters, depending on your environment. For most situations we use an X=3.
Posted by: Ki Ryn Apr 24 2006, 03:37 PM
We use a hex mat and call the hexes 2m each. Unlike some other games, SR4 is married to any particular mat layout.
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 24 2006, 03:39 PM
We use squares and every square is equal to 1 or 2 meters depending on the environment. We haven't had a fight spread out far enough to need more than that yet, but we've also only played three sessions.
Posted by: masterpenguin Apr 24 2006, 03:39 PM
| QUOTE |
| Not to be snide, and perhaps I'm being naive, but ... Movement rates are SR4 p.138. Ranges are p. 139. Cover modifiers are p.140. What are you looking for beyond that? |
well sure the rates are there, however, they aren't in any easly divisable number IE: walking rates for dwarfs vs trolls is 8 and 15. A running characters speed is also modified by a dice pool. Unless I was to make every square 1m (Which I think would be too small for most combat situations) there doesn't seem to be a good way to standardize the map.
Posted by: Dissonance Apr 24 2006, 03:51 PM
You could always just round up to an even number after all the modifiers are in place.
Posted by: NightHaunter Apr 24 2006, 04:18 PM
| QUOTE (dcpirahna) |
| We use squares and just kind of assume that every square equal X meters, depending on your environment. For most situations we use an X=3. |
Thats about it really.
You don't need anything else, but the rule book and some models.
Posted by: Waltermandias Apr 24 2006, 04:23 PM
We have done 1m squares, but that is definately too small. I would recommend two or three and just round. A square here or there doesn't make too much difference. If it really comes down to it just roll a die (4-6 in favor of players, 1-3 otherwise.)
Posted by: coolgrafix Apr 24 2006, 04:56 PM
The SR miniature movement system is more akin to other non-gridded systems like Battletech, Warhammer 40k, and the more recent MechWarrior and the other WizKids clickable games. There are no grids, just a scale (1" = x meters). If your miniature is supposed to move 7 meters in one turn then on a 1 inch scale surface he moves 7 inches. If he moves some oddball fraction because of multiple actions, then he just moves some oddball fraction (e.g. 7 inches over 3 actions = 2 2/3 inches per action). Measuring tape makes this all possible and it's been done since long before gridded mats were even available. =)
As others have pointed out above, this can be roughly adapted to a gridded surface.
In our game, we use the gridded surface mainly for scale and as a guide for drawing building walls along straight lines. =)
Posted by: GrinderTheTroll Apr 24 2006, 05:33 PM
| QUOTE (masterpenguin @ Apr 24 2006, 08:39 AM) | ||
well sure the rates are there, however, they aren't in any easly divisable number IE: walking rates for dwarfs vs trolls is 8 and 15. A running characters speed is also modified by a dice pool. Unless I was to make every square 1m (Which I think would be too small for most combat situations) there doesn't seem to be a good way to standardize the map. |
We use a large map all the time. The scale varies depending on what it represents but when it's go-time, 1 square (or hex) = 1 meter. Since movement is m/turn we use 1:1 most often.
Rather divide your movement by the number of passes per round, it's a whole lot easier to just always assume 4 passes per Combat Turn and divide that way. Everyone will know how far they can walk or run unless they choose to Sprint.
Just like regular combat, you can always move, but can only act if you have the IP to do so:
SR4.138 : Movement Rate Table becomes:
Humans, elves, orks: 10/25 (3,3,2,2 / 7,6,6,6)
Dwarfs: 8/20 (2,2,2,2 / 5,5,5,5)
Trolls: 15/35 (4,4,4,3 / 9,9,9,8)
Posted by: coolgrafix Apr 24 2006, 05:44 PM
[insert discussion of how moving diagonally on a square grid quickly throws movement rates way, way the hell off]
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 24 2006, 06:21 PM
Just count double for each odd square. Not exactly pythagorean, but close enough for government work.
Posted by: GrinderTheTroll Apr 24 2006, 06:46 PM
Meh, its close enough for game purposes since everyone's bound by the sames rules but you're right, hexes are better.
Edit - With a nice large map, you could just measure out distances with a paper tapemeasure and avoid the hexes or squares all together. Just have a compass, ruler and tape handy.
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 24 2006, 06:58 PM
The problem we've had with hexes is that they work very poorly when it comes time to start drawing walls because you have to cut hexes in half.
Posted by: GrinderTheTroll Apr 24 2006, 07:15 PM
| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
| The problem we've had with hexes is that they work very poorly when it comes time to start drawing walls because you have to cut hexes in half. |
Yeah James its a dual-edge sword it is. I think the easability of drawing is why my group gravitates towards squares more often than not.
Posted by: Ki Ryn Apr 24 2006, 07:29 PM
There's actually no reason to round movement just because you are on a grid. If you start in a 2m square and move 5 meters, you just end up standing on a line.
This isn't D&D. There's no "1 character per square" rule or even a rule that says you have to be in a square (or hex). Live life on the edge!
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 24 2006, 07:36 PM
There are no "one character per square" rules because there are no square rules at all. If using 1m squares there's probably no way for two people to occupy the same square without some penalties or grappling.
And if you're just going to ignore the squares, why use them at all? Use a tape measure instead.
Posted by: GrinderTheTroll Apr 24 2006, 07:41 PM
Digital vs. Analog, you make the call!
Posted by: mdynna Apr 24 2006, 09:38 PM
The bottom line: unlike D&D where every combat seems to operate on a "virtual grid", SR is not bound to such a system.
Come up with whatever rules you and your group thinks is fair and go with that. I have only used a battlemap in SR in very rare, large-combat sequences. Even then, everyone knew it wasn't an "exact scale" sort of thing. It was there for general, relative positioning purposes. My players will still ask me, "How far am I from this guy?" and I would just wing it with a "Ehhhh... (blah) metres." My opinion is: if you want something more exact, play a minitures game.
Posted by: James McMurray Apr 24 2006, 09:44 PM
SR can be a miniatures game if that's what works for the group. you don't really need anything more than some squares/hexes and a size for each of them.
Posted by: Shrike30 Apr 24 2006, 11:58 PM
Having played both hex-based and tape-based (no grid of any kind, you simply use a tape measure or ruler) miniature games, I vastly prefer tape-based. Makes it easy to figure out stuff like going around corners, zig-zagging down a hall, that kind of thing... and it prevents the guy making the map from trying to force it to conform to the lines on the paper. Diagonal hallways, round rooms, that kind of thing all become relatively easy to do.
And it's more conducive to making terrain that players can look at and go "OOooo..."
Posted by: TBRMInsanity Apr 25 2006, 01:27 PM
Any time I have to use a map I have a squared map board. Normally I would say you should use a no grid board as it is more accurate to the fluid nature of the SR system. The rules cover movement in the SR 4 book on page 138.
Posted by: Pyrius Apr 25 2006, 08:43 PM
Probably you might find something of interest in http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=10281&hl= older DS thread.
Unfortunately the link to the pdf file doesn´t work anymore. Maybe Veggiesama (who originally posted the pdf) can fix it.
Posted by: CONAN9845 Apr 26 2006, 05:51 AM
I bought two 34.5" by 48" mats that has 1" squares subdivided into 1/4" squares. I then bought two pieces of clear vinyl to put over them to use the dry erase markers on to protect the mats. This covers my entire, rather large, table. Then we use 1" = 1m for most times, and if we need a larger environment, we use smaller marker die, where 1/4" = 1m. We also keep a tape measure and ruler around for quick measurements. It helps to save time instead of counting boxes. We haven't had any problems yet.
Posted by: ronin3338 Apr 27 2006, 12:00 AM
Or you could get Shadowrun DMZ 
I have it, and it's handy. They didn't have squares or hexes, there were *s spaced across the map, and the scale was 2m between them, so you just moved from * to *
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