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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Where Ghostwalker came from?

Posted by: mdynna Apr 26 2006, 09:35 PM

I just had this thought kind of randomly pop into my head (my subconscious must have made the connection). At the end of Steven Kenson's novel The Burning Time, the Mage in the story (forget his name) rescues his gay lover (Kenson's writing seems to have homosexuality as a theme a lot *shrug*) from an astral prison controlled by the fixer "Mama". Now, I thought that during the description of that rescue it mentioned there being many of these little "astral cells" and him (the mage) seeing a "big white dragon" escape from one of them. He also saw other strange spirits escape as well (Shedim?). I'm not sure about the dragon part (it was awhile ago that I read it, and my local library lists "Missing" as the location for the book), but one thing I am sure about: it took place at the proper time for Ghostwalker's appearance.

Someone on this forum (not sure who) also mentioned that there was an ED Horror that had captured a GD in an astral prison of some kind. I don't know if it was ever revealed in "canon" who/what "Mama" was, but in all of the books that described her they seemed to hint that she was very powerful, and very evil.

Can someone who owns or has access to The Burning Time please confirm or deny my random thought?

Posted by: Kanada Ten Apr 26 2006, 09:51 PM

That's been the general consensus. Making Shedim lost souls, thousands of years old.

Posted by: BookWyrm Apr 27 2006, 01:00 AM

I'll dig out my copy of The Burning Time a little later. But from what I remember, yes.

And I've met Steven Kenson. Nice guy. If he is gay, so what? Doesn't matter to me.

Posted by: Voran Apr 27 2006, 01:01 AM

Wow. No wonder he was so pissed off by the time he hit Denver. If he was freed from his astral cell due to ..in some ways...random chance, a sideeffect of another break out, I'd nuke the first stuff I saw when I came out too. I'd be pissed at my GD kin too that didn't yknow, help me out.

Posted by: Ancient History Apr 27 2006, 01:16 AM

QUOTE

Kenson's writing seems to have homosexuality as a theme a lot

Not really. The fact is that Talon is Kenson's alter ego, end they both happen to be gay. You wouldn't say that straight authors with heterosexual characters have heterosexuality as a theme a lot.

QUOTE

Someone on this forum (not sure who) also mentioned that there was an ED Horror that had captured a GD in an astral prison of some kind.

Not a great dragon, but Verjigorm, Slayer of Great Dragons, has captured adult dragons and encased them in astral cocoons in order to force a particular metamorphosis on them.

The exact circumstances of what Ghostwalker, or the Shedim, or any of the spirits (multiple types came through the Rift) that "broke out" were doing beforehand is strictly conjecture; for all we know Jase might have been perceiving an "echo" from some other location(s) in the metaplanes.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Apr 27 2006, 01:58 AM

Does any of this have to do with the mass killing of the dragon kin noted in Dragon's of the Sixth World. I took it to being an order of paladins but maybe I'm wrong and it is some horror instead.

Posted by: Kanada Ten Apr 27 2006, 02:13 AM

There might be a Horror somewhere about the group, or perhaps just Horror inspired, but I think the Hunters are independent in their own crazy way. There are plenty of groups that think [meta]humanity is better off without dragons around - from Immortal Elves to Alamo 20K not to mention a bunch of politicos in Denver. And even other dragons might support the slaughter, perhaps for revenge like the last Sea Dragon. These groups could all be feeding the same rabid beast and putting it to hunt.

Posted by: Aaron Apr 27 2006, 03:07 AM

QUOTE (Ancient History)

Not really. The fact is that Talon is Kenson's alter ego, end they both happen to be gay. You wouldn't say that straight authors with heterosexual characters have heterosexuality as a theme a lot.

I know this isn't exactly on topic, but ...

Well said.

Posted by: mdynna Apr 27 2006, 02:55 PM

QUOTE (BookWyrm)

I'll dig out my copy of The Burning Time a little later. But from what I remember, yes.

And I've met Steven Kenson. Nice guy. If he is gay, so what? Doesn't matter to me.

Good, post the quote when you've got it.

And I don't have a "problem" if he is gay, that was not my intention. I was just noting that it was a consistent element through all of his writings.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Apr 27 2006, 04:20 PM

Dragons (like anyone who has tons of power) have large amounts of enemies. But they also have powerful friends as well. Does anyone know more information about the Great Dragon of Managascar who has a dragon clutch right now?

Posted by: Glayvin34 Apr 27 2006, 05:02 PM

This is a little off-topic, but it does concern Ghostwalker.
I've been reading Year of the Comet, and I saw that passage from Rhonabwy, "I issue my condolences for his loss", that oft-quoted passage about Ghostwalker that leads most to assume that Dunklezahn was his brother.
But Hualpa says "Ghostwalker has been rash, but I admit to some admiration for his tactics. They are bold and unexpected, and display great cunning worthy of his respected sire." Who's that respected sire? It seems that Ghostwalker's sire is likely Dunklezahn, which would jive with the "loss" that Ghostwalker has suffered.

Has this been covered over and over again on some other post?

QUOTE (TBRMInsanity)

Great Dragon of Managascar

Did you mean Madagascar or do they call it Managascar now, which would make sense?

Posted by: Lagomorph Apr 27 2006, 05:20 PM

QUOTE (Glayvin34)

QUOTE (TBRMInsanity)

Great Dragon of Managascar

Did you mean Madagascar or do they call it Managascar now, which would make sense?

Read through this page here, it'll explain most of what you're looking for.

http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Immortals.htm

Posted by: Glayvin34 Apr 27 2006, 05:43 PM

Woah. Waitaminute, is this "Earthdawn" system a preprequel to Shadowrun with the Dragons and some of the elves as recurring characters?

Posted by: Lagomorph Apr 27 2006, 05:48 PM

Yep, thats the basics. Earthdawn was a fantasy game made by the team who made SR using similar mechanics. They started writing in cross over material at some point (possibly from the beginning). I haven't played ED my self, so my knowledge is basic at best. But Ancient History's site is awesome for learning about the connections.

Posted by: James McMurray Apr 27 2006, 05:59 PM

You pretty much covered, except that the mechanics are almost completely unrelated to one another.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Apr 28 2006, 03:28 AM

Since Earthdawn has been sold to Living Room Games the story line between the two RPGs have drifted apart. Soon Earthdawn will be a alternate reality past to Shadowrun.

Posted by: Adam Apr 28 2006, 05:04 AM

Earthdawn was not sold to Living Room Games; it was licensed to them by FASA, who still owns bits and bobs of IP. FASA has also licensed Earthdawn to Red Brick Games, who are doing their own version of Earthdawn. Red Brick also has the license to sell the old FASA books as ebooks

Posted by: Witness Apr 28 2006, 09:41 AM

QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Apr 27 2006, 10:28 PM)

Since Earthdawn has been sold to Living Room Games the story line between the two RPGs have drifted apart. Soon Earthdawn will be a alternate reality past to Shadowrun.

I hope this doesn't happen. I've come to rather like that connection and all those little secrets and ancient plots (Ancient History deserves a lot of credit for making all this stuff so accessible). GMs can ignore it if they want to, and there's probably no reason to refer to it in your typical street level game, but sometimes I enjoy a more historic level of campaign, so all that ancient history provides a rich playground. Shadowrun is almost two-games-in-one because of it.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Apr 28 2006, 01:37 PM

WizKids/Fanpro should almost buy up the rights to Earthdawn so they can further develope both games together. It might help solve what happened to Ghostwalker and how he got stuck in the Astral Plane.

Posted by: Witness Apr 28 2006, 02:49 PM

As has been noted elsewhere, a lot of the fans of one game end up investigating the other so they can try and get 'the big picture'. Seems like a pretty good mutually beneficial arrangement to me. Reason enough for Fanpro and Red Brick to talk to each other now and then, I'd have thought.

Posted by: Shrike30 Apr 28 2006, 06:17 PM

I may be completely wrong in this, but my impression of Earthdawn was that it was essentially a dead line. While having SR continue to sync up with ED's established history is great for the amusement of well-informed players, I'm not sure it's really cost effective to put a lot of effort into reviving ED with a primary goal being to bolster SR sales.

Posted by: Witness Apr 28 2006, 06:25 PM

http://www.earthdawn-classic.com/
I feel rumours of its demise might be a little exaggerated. Though I have no idea if it's proving popular.

Posted by: Ancient History Apr 28 2006, 06:26 PM

http://lrgames.com

Not dead, no. A house divided, however.

Posted by: Valentinew Apr 28 2006, 07:32 PM

I spoke to reps for FanPro AND Living Room Games at GenCon 2005. Both said they continue to communicate with each other to keep things as consistent as they can manage....

Posted by: mdynna Apr 28 2006, 08:16 PM

Laff... "as they can manage" can vary quite widely depending on how much they like each other...

Posted by: Adam Apr 28 2006, 09:03 PM

I'm not sure how LRG and Red Brick get along with each other, but FanPro/LRG and FanPro/Red Brick get along just fine. Most publishers -- even of competing products -- get along pretty well and are open to helping out each other when possible.

Posted by: Dammi May 1 2006, 01:47 PM

Hiya!

LRG and RedBrick keep good relations as well. Our relations to Fanpro are also pretty good (as Adam pointed out). We care a lot about consistency and wouldn't write something that contradicts established facts outright. Inconsistencies in the not-so-important details could accidentally happen, of course (we're just humans).

Best,

Dammi
RedBrick Limited

Posted by: Dakhran the Dark May 1 2006, 09:20 PM

To answer another question from the OP, I believe they revealed that the Boston fixer Mama's full name was Mama Iaga. Quite similar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Yaga, doncha think? Considering that "baba" was a title meaning "grandmother"...

I'm just disappointed that she didn't have a hut with chicken legs.

Posted by: mdynna May 1 2006, 09:39 PM

Ok, that makes sense. Can someone who owns "The Burning Time" please look up and quote the part at the end of the book where all of the Astral Captives are being freed? I thought I remembered something in that part about a "huge white dragon."