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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Speed dating: A corp manager's dream

Posted by: JongWK Apr 27 2006, 08:30 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4903522.stm

QUOTE (BBC)

Alternatively, company bosses used to take on the role of matchmaker for their staff, although this is rare now.

Possibilities, possibilities...

Posted by: emo samurai Apr 27 2006, 08:46 PM

Shrinking population? Haven't they ever heard of immigration? And why is Japan becoming less overcrowded a bad thing?

Posted by: Daddy's Little Ninja Apr 27 2006, 08:50 PM

Because Japan is incredibly racist and xenophobic and the idea of letting in non-japanese gives them the heebie jeebies.

And if anyone thinks my comments are racist. I am Japanese-american, my parents are Japanese and I have seen enough of the old school type to have soem real experience. Never mnid blacks and whites. there are some in japan who curl up their little toes at the thought of Chinese of Korean's moving in!

Posted by: Kagetenshi Apr 27 2006, 08:50 PM

Because on the path to becoming less overcrowded is a period of time where the majority of the population is elderly?

~J

Posted by: Daddy's Little Ninja Apr 27 2006, 08:57 PM

Right, there is a growing lack of aid workers to take care of the elderly.

Posted by: Kanada Ten Apr 27 2006, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Apr 27 2006, 03:50 PM)

Because on the path to becoming less overcrowded is a period of time where the majority of the population is elderly?

There's a really horrible anime/movie that deals with this theme, by creating the perfect bed nurse or bed that's a nurse - whatever. It's designed to fulfill the needs of the patient in the most efficient way possible, including simsense. But, naturally, a group of geriatric hackers break the system, unleash the military based AI within, and the bed goes bonkers.

Posted by: Voorhees Apr 27 2006, 09:15 PM

I think I saw that on the Scifi channel one very sleepless night a few years ago.

Posted by: ronin3338 Apr 27 2006, 09:36 PM

QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)

I'm a mixed breed also, and my mom grew up in Japan during WW2. It's amazing how resistant she's been to change over the years.

It's amazing how much Western culture they've absorbed, yet still remain vastly racist. In recent years it seems that they've accepted Westerners more, but are still very against non-Japanese Asians.

All in all, it makes me chuckle when I see how badly Japanese culture is misrepresented in most media.

Posted by: emo samurai Apr 27 2006, 10:12 PM

The movie's Roujin Z, and it's made by Katsuhiro Otomo, the dude who made Akira.

And what do you mean by Japanese culture being misrepresented in media? I have no idea on this subject, so please don't construe that as bigoted in any way.

Posted by: PBTHHHHT Apr 27 2006, 10:15 PM

All cultures are misrepresented by the media. Have you ever talked to someone in another country and gotten their impression of what they think of how the US is like, or watch their shows in how they envision the US? Likewise, we also have different representations on other cultures of the world and it just happens because everyone has their own view of what they've seen, read, experienced, though some of it might be stereotype and such and they go on to write/report/film in that light.

Posted by: James McMurray Apr 27 2006, 10:21 PM

You mean we're not all money grubbing redneck warmongers bent on world domination?

Posted by: PBTHHHHT Apr 27 2006, 10:21 PM

sssshhhh, I'm trying to put them offguard so we can hit them in a surpirse strike.

Posted by: Kanada Ten Apr 27 2006, 11:04 PM

[Speed dating] was mentioned in a Dead Like Me episode. Seems like a nightmare, almost like a non-virtual chatroom.

Posted by: eralston Apr 27 2006, 11:05 PM

If all the half-breeds are showing up to this forum, I feel compelled to join in.

I am half-Turkish and half-American. Most of my life I spent as a nerd because of race-based alienation, that's just background for this...

In 1996 I went to Turkey and was treated like some sort of demi-god for being american. Despite being very very very very young, young girls would ask me if I have a girlfriend and if my parents were thinking of "Arranging my marriage" (undoubtedly to them so I could take them away [to play with my legos I was so young!]).

However, my mother currently lives in Turkey and when she says she lived moved from America in 2004, most people say "they understand why she left such a bad place".

So, what's the point?

"Racism" is tied much more to "nationalism" which moves with the times (especially in the case of Japan). Ten years ago, America was a great place. Now, not so much in the eyes of the turks (and the middle east at large). BUT the things is, they actually have MORE AMERICAN MEDIA in Turkey now than they did ten years ago.

So is it the media that causes racial confusion? Perhaps, but the greatest influence on international opinion is the actions of your country and your portrayal in something more meaningful than Survivor 94: Mars.

How does this relate to Japan? That's for the next person, this post is too long already

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Apr 27 2006, 11:12 PM

QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)

Rock, I'm also half Japanese. And, yeah, I basically agree with you.

It's kind of funny because for me the idea of Japanese managers playing matchmaker was just something I took for granted. It took me a moment to realize that something like that could sound really twisted if someone hadn't heard about it before.

Posted by: Fix-it Apr 27 2006, 11:19 PM

QUOTE

It's amazing how much Western culture they've absorbed, yet still remain vastly racist. In recent years it seems that they've accepted Westerners more, but are still very against non-Japanese Asians.

that would be because all the other asian races hate them back. nan king come to mind?

occupation of korea?

Posted by: FanGirl Apr 27 2006, 11:23 PM

QUOTE (PBTHHHHT)

Hee, one time a French person asked me (I'm American) if I ate buffalo very often. As an aside, I'm a vegetarian, so I still would not eat buffalo even if it were plentiful in this country.

But back to the speed dating: I can definitely see corps arranging for their employees to marry and have children with other employees. Perhaps they'll even offer salary hikes and other bonuses for each child born into an employee family, as well as "legacy benefits" to encourage second-generation workers. The Nazis offered "racially pure" people all kinds of incentives to have children, such as http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/medals-german/mums-crosses.jpg to women with 4 or more kids, so why wouldn't corps offer similar incentives to their employees?

Posted by: ronin3338 Apr 27 2006, 11:28 PM

Quote added so this will make sense (Wounded Ronin):
It's kind of funny because for me the idea of Japanese managers playing matchmaker was just something I took for granted. It took me a moment to realize that something like that could sound really twisted if someone hadn't heard about it before.

Yeah, and there's lots of those aspects in Japanese culture...

... amend that. I guess most cultures have those, even America. I know that my foreign friends/relations look at me funny sometimes too...

Posted by: hyzmarca Apr 28 2006, 12:02 AM

Speed dating isn't unique to Japan. I didn even think it originated in Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_dating

It is, in general, an ill-concieved idea compared to classical arranged marriages.
The biggest factor in divorce today is the unwillingness of people to actually put work into a relationship because they believe in romantic nonsense including 'love at first sight'. Once the initial chemical rush wears off the parties find themselves unfullfilled and break up so that they can get that rush again. By contrast, traditional arranged marriages encourage both parties to make an effort to have a real relationship.

If SR megacorps want more babies I can see them actually paying people with qualified genomes to do nothing other than repeatedly have children, either through artificial means or the natrual way. You don't even need to get people to date. You just need a plastic cup and a turkey baster. Childrearing can be accomplished by paid professionals and the baby-factories don't need any contact with their offspring, which greatly reduces the time between pregnancies.

Posted by: emo samurai Apr 28 2006, 12:07 AM

But marriage really shouldn't be a constant struggle to not resent somebody; although arranged marriages would give a general assumption of work, you would probably need to work harder not to stab them in the eye with a fork for the simple fact you never chose them to begin with.

Posted by: hyzmarca Apr 28 2006, 12:15 AM

Not really. In general, having disinterested third parties make the match greatly increases the chance of overall compatibility since a dispassionant observer can more easily see the negative qualities of both parties. Love and lust ultimatly clout one's judgement and are no different from a drug addiction.

Posted by: Kanada Ten Apr 28 2006, 12:17 AM

QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Apr 27 2006, 07:02 PM)

The biggest factor in divorce today is the unwillingness of people to actually put work into a relationship because they believe in romantic nonsense including 'love at first sight'. Once the initial chemical rush wears off the parties find themselves unfullfilled and break up so that they can get that rush again. By contrast, traditional arranged marriages encourage both parties to make an effort to have a real relationship.

Come on, you know that's only part of the story. And besides, divorce often includes children. The problem speed dating is trying to solve is that of successful people who work dreadful hours trying to find suitable mates with similar social capital. This has been a problem since the rise of sexual equality, because there is a higher value on success and comfort - neither of which is based on children anymore. The issue is far deeper than romantic nonsense; it goes all the way to instant gratification. That's something SR megacorps support, so they will likely sell children as a product and then sell virtual child care workers to parents who grow tired of raising the beasts.

QUOTE

In general, having disinterested third parties make the match greatly increases the chance of overall compatibility since a dispassionant observer can more easily see the negative qualities of both parties.

That's never happened. Matchmakers are motivated by greed and the families are motivated by various incarnations of greed - wether increasing wealth or social status. There has never been a "golden age" of arranged marriages.

Posted by: emo samurai Apr 28 2006, 12:18 AM

What caliber disinterested third parties are we talking about? People who know you as a person, or traditionalist fanatics?

QUOTE

Hear, hear.

Posted by: FanGirl Apr 28 2006, 01:07 AM

QUOTE (hyzmarca)

If SR megacorps want more babies I can see them actually paying people with qualified genomes to do nothing other than repeatedly have children, either through artificial means or the natrual way. You don't even need to get people to date. You just need a plastic cup and a turkey baster. Childrearing can be accomplished by paid professionals and the baby-factories don't need any contact with their offspring, which greatly reduces the time between pregnancies.

I think that a corp would get a bad rep for maintaining such a "breeding program," since it's generally agreed upon in our society that it's better for a child to be raised by a family who loves him than by an institution that couldn't care less about him. The practice of encouraging employees to have large families is much more defensible from a PR perspective. The corps just want to help people experience the joys of parenthood without having to sacrifice their careers, right?

Posted by: hyzmarca Apr 28 2006, 01:12 AM

Idealy, people who know you as a person.

Of course, traditionalistic arranged marraiges are only superior in tradtional relationship structures with traditional participants. In alternative or transhumanist relationship structures and amongst participants with unusual philosophical beliefs it may or may not be useful.

Arranged mariage is quite useless amongst those who practice polyamory, for example, an arranged relationships are little more than a suggestion amonst groups that practice communal marriage.

I can see communal marriage and polyamory being popular with more progressive transhumanist corporations to the point where every employee of a corporation may be legally married to every other employee while some corporations would encourage traditional marriage simply because their run by conservatives.

Posted by: emo samurai Apr 28 2006, 01:15 AM

Let's have a run-down of how each corp would handle it.

Shiawase: I don't see the Big Happy Japanese Family as including a breeding pit.

Renraku: Maybe; it's big on the whole technocratic angle and the supremacy of science to the point that they go beyond science.

Yamatetsu: Possibly because of their transhumanism, but they're not really big on the genetic superiority of much of anybody, so 80% chance of no.

Ares: No, they seem not to want to control their employees to that degree.

NEOnet: If it's anything like Novatech, then it's basically a normal American company, with secretarial pools, mergers, and a lack of a paternalistic, pseudoscientific breeding program.

Wuxing: Too traditional.

S-K: Probably not; even though Lofwyr's big on survival of the fittest, he's more about people proving their fitness than having it shown by a DNA test. He probably values aptitude too much to reduce it down to a string of molecules.

Horizon: From what we know, they're very laissez-faire. No breeding program.

MCT: It's possible, but they seem too pragmatic to care that much.

Aztechnology: Anything's possible with those dudes.

Posted by: Kanada Ten Apr 28 2006, 01:18 AM

And with the advent of p'fix chips, marriges might have a new edge. "My wife doesn't listen to me any more." "Well, I think we can fix that." Kinda a new twist on the Stepford Wives... Or mail-order brides. "I really like this meat puppet. How much is it to take her home?"

Posted by: emo samurai Apr 28 2006, 01:19 AM

Now THAT would be cyberpunk.

Posted by: Snow_Fox Apr 28 2006, 02:28 AM

Coprs would problably encourage inter corp dating. Better that than and R&D manager at renraku sleeping with an advertising exec at Wuxing.

And guys, before she sees it. DLN is full Japanese. Her husband is English so her kids will be mixed but she's "unmixed." Her parents have been cool with her husband but one of her brothers married a girl of Korean extraction and the stories are that it was ugly. The situation, not the sister in law.

Posted by: James McMurray Apr 28 2006, 02:48 AM

Did you mean intracorp dating? Intercorp would be between different corporations.

Posted by: Unrest Apr 28 2006, 03:15 AM

I don't know about this, there are a few women at my work I wouldn't mind being forced into a relationship with. And if you paying me to do so alls the better. Kind of strange though since dating your coworkers in the United States is generally frowned upon by employers. I can see the racist angle here but really thats not entirely accurate. I'm a full american and have to been to japan several times. They are alot more xenophobic then they are racist and if you look at what outside influence has done to them before, samurai rebellions - hiroshima perhaps?, you can't really blame them.

As a side note about Japanese being misrepresented in media. If you want a good example check out memoirs of a geisha. The japanese movie about japanese culture that doesn't have a single japanese actor on the entire bloody cast.

Posted by: eralston Apr 28 2006, 05:59 AM

Dude, there's a reason no one saw that movie...

Anywho, corporate structure in America is anti-inter-personal in general. I find it surprise that people even remember their libidos when they walk through the door. The lack of romantic relationships has more to do with the prevalence of lawsuits in the 90s.

In the 70s, work was a great place to meet women (I hate to reveal the source, but that's the candid revelation of my father who is 1) a jerk 2) a jerk who has had sexual harassment legal action against him post-90s. I would consider it no offense against me to be judgemental of him at this point. I've got more reasons that you to hate him)

Posted by: JongWK Apr 28 2006, 06:06 AM

QUOTE (FanGirl)

You should check the Culture Shock section of SotA:2064 (Brat Packs). Corporate orphanages are great PR.

I can perfectly see corps screening their sperm & DNA banks for best results. Hell, Tir Tairngire already did it in 2054.

Posted by: hyzmarca Apr 28 2006, 06:12 AM

QUOTE (eralston)

Anywho, corporate structure in America is anti-inter-personal in general. I find it surprise that people even remember their libidos when they walk through the door. The lack of romantic relationships has more to do with the prevalence of lawsuits in the 90s.

The thing about that is that sexual harasment statues are so broad that you could get sued for not grabbing a coworker's butt. So, all things being equal, you might as well go for it since the law is against you either way.

Posted by: Oracle Apr 28 2006, 06:19 AM

QUOTE (James McMurray)

You mean we're not all money grubbing redneck warmongers bent on world domination?

Actually people aren't thinking that about all US Americans. Just about those who are in charge.

Posted by: eralston Apr 28 2006, 06:28 AM

Well, when you say "you" I suppose you mean "men".

Starting from that assumption, I would say that the 80s whiplash against women in the workplace is an early indicator of the continuing indignation of most american male workers have over nothing.

Overall, you should re-center your paranoia on just generally crazy people who are the only ones likely to bring a non-sexual harassment suit before a judge. Sociopathic tendencies really crosses gender and race lines, uniting us all against people who are just plain idiots.

Posted by: hyzmarca Apr 28 2006, 07:10 AM

QUOTE (eralston)

Well, when you say "you" I suppose you mean "men".

Actually, not at all. If a man grabbed my ass in the workplace I would politely inform him that I don't swing in that direction but I would mind. I was really hoping for women to take that advice however it was completely gender neutral and applies equaly to males, females, all varieties of intersexed, pre-op transsexuals of both persuasions, and true hermaphrodites.

I believe is equality - not fake forced equality but the true equality that comes from breaking down all social barriers. I believe in sexually integrated restrooms, for example. I believe that women should be allowed to play major league sports beside men. I hate misogynists but I love misanthropes.

If I were going to intentionally sexually harass someone I would be just as likely to harass a heterosexual male (despite being a hetrosexual male myself) as I would be to sexually harass a women because I believe in equality. I just think that people should lighten up. A little flirting in the office never hurt anyone. The vast of so called sexual harassment is due to miscommunication because one party isn't assertive enough. All it takes is one clear and simple setting of personal boundries to clear such issues up. If someone grabs your ass and you don't like it you can just say. "Don't grab my ass. I don't like it." It couldn't be simpler.

Actual harrasment, sexual or no is different. If I ran an extraterritorial corportion intentional harassment would be an executable offense. When someone was accused of an act of harrasment I would go to that person's place of work and judge the case myself. If the evidence points to guilt I would motion for my swordbearer, take the weapon, and cleanly slice the oppender in half at the hips, leaving the half person to write on the floor and bleed to death as an example to everyone else that harasment won't be tollerated.

Posted by: eralston Apr 28 2006, 08:13 AM

Wow, you would need some wiz-band mono-sword tech for that kind of cutting; furthermore, you travel expenses would be very high. Did you like pop a boner at that one episode of Next Gen where they went to the paradise semi-nude planet where their only punishment was death?

I don't know, I think if corps could de-sexualize their employers they would do that before supporting equal-sexualizing their employees. The only real edge people have over machines in the economy is creativity, dexterity, and pattern recognition skills.

For instance, if Japanese truly believed in making more children they would go in and the (ready for it?) fuckin' job done right. I'm sure they will still manage to make a profit off the backs of overworked people are immigrants fill the ranks of society. Even if they have to sacrifice a few racist views, the institution can still survive having Chinese workers and its survival is all the institution cares about. That's why they call it a business instead of a community.

Posted by: Daddy's Little Ninja Apr 28 2006, 01:15 PM

The male lead in Memoirs of a Geisha was Ken Watanabe. He is Japanese. It was the 3 main female leads, that were ethnic Chinese.

The only complaints were from China who said the movie (made in the Us, based on a book written by an american man) was an attempt by the Japanese to use Chinese women as sex objects.

Posted by: Daddy's Little Ninja Apr 28 2006, 03:23 PM

QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Apr 27 2006, 09:28 PM)

And guys, before she sees it. DLN is full Japanese. Her husband is English so her kids will be mixed but she's "unmixed." Her parents have been cool with her husband but one of her brothers married a girl of Korean extraction and the stories are that it was ugly. The situation, not the sister in law.

Thanks SF but I was not going to freak. For the record my parents are fine with the fact I married a caucasian and that one of my brothers married a girl who is Korean the way we are Japanese. None of us had any problems. Her parents were a little put off by it, but we won them over.

This does lead to an interesting trend in SR. In the Americas today there does not seem to be a problem between asian groups born here. Only in older people who carry over the old fueds. BUT in SR you see it coming back where the Yakuza killed the ethnic Koreans in it. That the Koreans were in it to be killed shows where we are "now" with out a problem here.

this could also feed into corp environments. what if the Japan-corps start cracking down on an ethnicity? Aztechnology purged UB member, right? What if your b/f was suddenly booted? Or your career was maxing out because you were dating 'one of those?"

Posted by: fistandantilus3.0 Apr 29 2006, 05:20 AM

QUOTE (Kanada Ten)

[Speed dating] was mentioned in a Dead Like Me episode. Seems like a nightmare, almost like a non-virtual chatroom.

I saw that episode (and love that show). I was going to mention it. The whole thing seemed very rushed and frantic. As it was portrayed at least, there really didn't seem to be much hope on either end unless one was willing to compromise, was desperate, or just made a very good first impression. Of course, a great first impression is pretty hard to do the 15th time around. I can defintely see something like this happening in Arcologies though. Go Shiawase!

Posted by: Snow_Fox Apr 29 2006, 03:14 PM

The idea behind speed dating is you get 3-5 minutes talking to someone, see if you "click" and then move on. In better run places, you have a score card. "Liked mr 7, didn't like mr 3, mr 5 is geeky" etc. at the end you turn it in to the people running it. Then everyone mingles. You've already broken the ice so can talk freely. the people running it then compare cards and if people match up "Miss 6 likes Mr 3 and Mr 3 said he likes Miss 6" they then let htose people know there's a mutual attraction-assuming they didn't already hook up-because people are supposed to hold off in case they are really pushing on someone who is not interested but just being polite.

Posted by: Fire Hawk Apr 29 2006, 10:20 PM

RE: Memoirs of a Geisha

The book is fictional.

There's a non-fiction book called "Geisha, A Life", which is an actual autobiography.

Note: a Geisha is NOT a prostitute, but the actual role is too complex for me to explain the differences right now.

Posted by: James McMurray Apr 29 2006, 11:24 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha

I haven't read it, so don't know how accurate it is.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Apr 30 2006, 11:17 PM

QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)

That's why I won't see the film. I don't know what kind of moron of a director thought it would be funny to cast Chinese women as freaking geishas. I mean, I grew up in NYC, and hardly consider myself to be culturally Japanese at all, but it seems to me like casting Chinese women as geishas is so absurd that it's going back to the 1950s when a fat white guy played Fu Manchu on TV.

I find it vaguely offensive (and I hardly ever use this word because I'm not even into PC) that the director or casting person would think that in this day and age white people who are interested in seeing a historical film about geisha would be totally unaware of the difference between Chinese people and Japanese people.

Just, yeah...seeing the previews of this film left all kinds of bad taste in my mouth.

Posted by: James McMurray May 1 2006, 12:27 AM

How many japanese actresses are out there? If there aren't a lot then Chinese may have been a necessary evil.

Posted by: eralston May 1 2006, 01:10 AM

Dude, have you ever watched Iron Chef? They have at least one clueless female actress for every episode of the show (they're probably not all clueless, but they all make it a point to smile widely and act glib)

Posted by: James McMurray May 1 2006, 02:11 AM

I didn't see Geisha. Could a clueless actress pull off the roles?

Posted by: Daddy's Little Ninja May 1 2006, 02:55 PM

Wounded, just north of NYC in White Plains there is a big Japanese population. My brothers and I got saturday 'culture" schooling. But there was never a big influx of Japanese to the US the way there were other groups. There are lots of Japanese actresses but many do not speak english enough for the role.

The 2 female leads were ethnically Chinese but both were born in Indonesia. If they were born in the US, most people would say they were 'asian-americans." This is a great example, Wounded, of the racism I mentioned among different asian groups. There was some resistance in Japan, land of the xenophobic bigots, but the women were so good that the film did well.

Michelle Yeoh summed it up by saying they are actresses who play roles. Does anyone in the US question it if the actor playing an Italian was of Irish decent?
Anthony Quinn played 'Zorba the Greek' and he was an irish/mexican mix.

Posted by: PBTHHHHT May 1 2006, 04:22 PM

Or all the British actors that usually play Julius Caesar...

Posted by: James McMurray May 1 2006, 04:47 PM

What? Caeser wasn't British?

Posted by: Daddy's Little Ninja May 1 2006, 06:03 PM

The Romans just all sound like my husband