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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Crime Scene Procedures

Posted by: Siege Oct 10 2003, 06:02 PM

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/csi-collection.html

Give this a skim for those of you so inclined to peruse.

-Siege

Posted by: godboyimmaculate Oct 10 2003, 07:52 PM

Interesting reading.

Makes me wonder where CSI (the science, not the show) will be in 47+ years. Shadowrunning will be more like Gattaca than Pulp Fiction Im thinking

Posted by: BitBasher Oct 11 2003, 01:26 AM

What really should scare you are Awakened Police Detectives with Psychometry and a lot of dice.

Posted by: Herald of Verjigorm Oct 11 2003, 01:40 AM

At least some forms of magical detection are inadmissable in court...but still enough to be granted a warrant. This is assuming you arce under UCAS law, some other nations are more lenient about magical evidence.

Posted by: SCLariat Oct 13 2003, 02:03 AM

I've never caught the CSI bug, but I watch the "real" CSI on Tuesdays on the Discovery Channel. They have an excellent show called the "New Detectives: Case Studies in Forensic Science" that I've watched on the better part of 5 years straight. If you're keen on the actual science of forensics, that show gets to the point much quicker.

However, the general public needs to understand how few crimes are actually solved. Many modern police departments lack the resources to adequately investigate murders which occur in their jurisdictions. Less serious crimes usually are lucky to have a report filed, and that's it . I've had several clients (I'm a lawyer....so the forensics interest is much more than just gaming) who've admitted to crimes that the police had no clue of solving, even after being given their Miranda warnings that they had the right to keep their mouth shut. I had a client one time who was interrogated with the detective going through the unsolved crimes folder and asking him (Did you do this? No? Did you do this? No?) until he admitted to an unsolved armed robbery. Sad but true.

In SR, while I believe the forensics capabilities would unbelievable, that technology also costs a lot of money. A corp like Lone Star or Knight Errant would have a difficult decision to make. One of the real powers a state prosecutor (at least in the US) has is a nearly unlimited supply of funds with which to make his case. Unless you're OJ or Kobe, a defendant usually doesn't get squat in return. Even then, I'm sure the state of California outspent the OJ defense team.

In SR, the situation would likely be reversed. The Star or KE has to solve crimes & make money. That proposition alone would indicate to me that they wouldn't waste valuable corporate dollars on prosecuting every crime, or using the most cutting edge tech on run-of-the mill crimes. Corporations are in business to make money, which, to me, is the antithesis of the attitude an effective prosecutor has to have. A Corp prosecutor has to be thinking a.) bottom line; b.) winning the case. IMHO, that's a recipe for kangaroo justice.

Posted by: godboyimmaculate Oct 13 2003, 08:45 PM

Very interesting SCLariat and it makes sense. I guess it has to do with the actual case. I can see at least 85% of the runs in our games being investigated simply because of the amount of destruction caused. Most SRunners run around with military hardware and they also attack corporations. It would probably be in the Star's or the corp's best interest to spend money on finding the perps. But then again, its all according to the circumstances.

Bah...starting to blend RL with fantasy...need to stop doing that and just have fun rolling da dice

Posted by: BitBasher Oct 13 2003, 08:56 PM

If that crime was committed on extraterritorial corp property it's of Zero interest to lone star to investiagte anything, as no crime was comitted on Lone Star jurisdiction.

Posted by: SCLariat Oct 15 2003, 01:34 AM

The shadowrunners in my games tend to use non-lethal techniques (stun guns, narcojet, stunball, etc. ) instead of lethal means. I have very little wanton death and destruction in my games because they're also paranoid about becoming a target for retribution. While one murder may not be investigated that much, I'm sure that any corporation would thoroughly investigate the violent death of of 4 or 5 security guards or numerous other random corporate employees. Bloodthirsty characters have a short life-span in my games.

Forensic science is always a good way to "encourage" your characters to a less-lethal style of game if so choose.

Posted by: annachie Oct 15 2003, 04:46 AM

QUOTE (SCLariat)

I agree. Also from the 'runners perspective there's also the rep thing. If he has a rep for always using non-lethal methods, then any corp that comes after you may also use non-lethal. Whereas if you have a rep as a psycho kill everybody, then they are definatly going to hit you hard and fast.

One of the improvements I can see happening would be cheaper and faster DNA analysis. Despite what CSI shows, it still takes a fair while to do. Maybe not Gattaca quick, but hours not weeks.

Posted by: cykotek Oct 15 2003, 10:51 AM

QUOTE (SCLariat)

In SR, the situation would likely be reversed. The Star or KE has to solve crimes & make money. That proposition alone would indicate to me that they wouldn't waste valuable corporate dollars on prosecuting every crime, or using the most cutting edge tech on run-of-the mill crimes. <snip> IMHO, that's a recipe for kangaroo justice.

Keep in mind, that Lone Star, as a corporation, is under contract to a given city. I'll admit, they are motivated by nothing but profit margin, and as such, will seek ways to cut costs and increase profits.

However, as city contractors, they have to keep the city government happy with their services. If Lone Star doesn't provide satisfaction, then the city will just go elsewhere for law enforcement services. This means the Star will be at least willing to go most of the distance. They won't necessarily keep on the bleeding edge of forensic technology, but they'll at least put forth good-faith effort.

All of this, of course, assumes there's no corruption in the system (yeah, right). If the city negotiators are on the take from the Star to keep the contract with Lone Star, then they've suddenly got a lot less reason to "go all the way". Add in the possibilities of faking evidence to convict SINless to get crimes out of the way, etc, and the situation becomes a lot more blurry.

It all comes down to the GMs interpretation of the city-Lone Star relationship.