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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Sucked back into the Shadows

Posted by: Nobody May 2 2006, 02:23 AM

Hey there,

I haven't played since first edition. I've recently found a gaming group and we've decided to play Shadowrun. I purchased SR4 the other day and I'm reading through it. I'm excited, but I'd love to trouble the forum with a question.

Back with SR1, I was a sourcebook junkie. B/c of this, I'm tempted to shell out the cash for some of the SR3 expansions (man and machine in particular). But before I drop the money...

How well do the SR3 sourcebooks convert? Do the sourcebooks overpower the players? Is it too much information/options to drop on beginning players?

Lastly... Fanpro's site tells me that the magic book is coming in the near-ish future. Any clue on the release dates of other SR4 sourcebooks?

Thoughts?

-Thanks

Posted by: hobgoblin May 2 2006, 02:24 AM

they basicly dont convert, or atleast not cleanly. better to hold out for the new books i think

Posted by: Backgammon May 2 2006, 02:27 AM

There's no point in buying old "toys" books, like M&M of Magic or Rigger. The locations or theme books are still pretty good though.

As for the SR4 books, they are all supposedly coming out this year. But that has as much worth as when politicians promise they won't raise taxes.

Posted by: Kanada Ten May 2 2006, 02:32 AM

I'd buy System Failure and leave it at that for now.

Posted by: Nasrudith May 2 2006, 02:47 AM

Unless your looking for some flavor of say supplements giving information about Seatle, making a few changes to the setting with commlink addition, cyberdeckectonmy.

Posted by: James McMurray May 2 2006, 02:53 AM

Nasrudith... huh?

Posted by: the_dunner May 2 2006, 02:54 AM

QUOTE (Nobody)

Lastly... Fanpro's site tells me that the magic book is coming in the near-ish future. Any clue on the release dates of other SR4 sourcebooks?

If you grab http://www.fanprogames.com/fanpro/FPR2006Catalog.pdf you can see what's tentatively scheduled for 2006.

My guess (and it's only a guess, but it's based on usual industry planning) is that we'll see Street Magic and Runner Havens at Origins. (July 4th weekend.)

From there I'd guess that they're aiming to get both Emergence and Arsenal out at GenCon. (Second weekend of August)

Augmentation is probably targeted as a Christmas (or GenCon SoCal -- mid November) release, but it might slip in 2007.

HTH!

Posted by: Jaid May 2 2006, 03:18 AM

i thought one of the books wasn't scheduled for this year at all? unwired, or something like that, wasn't it? (matrix book anyways, iirc).

Posted by: Nobody May 2 2006, 03:31 AM

Hmm....

Thanks for all of that... especially the link to the catalog, I hadn't seen that yet.

I think I'll be patient and wait out the releases. Hopefully the quarter predictions were based on legit expectations and we'll see all of the books out on time.

Thanks again

Posted by: Aku May 2 2006, 04:24 AM

the nice thing with a new edition in a gaming group, is you dont have to feel "preassured" now, to buy a cartfull of supplements to be on "even ground"... everyone in the group has the exact same material to work with.

Posted by: eidolon May 2 2006, 04:29 AM

Until they start releasing sourcebooks. Then the "pressure" will be back, as much as ever.

Posted by: Aku May 2 2006, 04:32 AM

eh, true, but with their release schedule, sr5™ might be here too

Posted by: CONAN9845 May 2 2006, 04:50 AM

In our group, I was the one that bought EVERY SR3 book that came out. With the switch to SR4, you have everything you need to play. You don't need any SR3 material.

The more books you buy, the harder it gets for everyone to keep up, unless they take it as seriously as you do. All of the "flavor" books are just filled with material that you will probably never use, especially if you already have a campaign in mind as a GM. And the other sourcebooks don't convert very well... not that you'll miss any of it, having not played in a while.

If you wait until the SR4 books come out, everyone can keep up at once, and you don't have to worry about any of your conversions being wrong.

Posted by: the_dunner May 2 2006, 01:00 PM

QUOTE (Jaid)

i thought one of the books wasn't scheduled for this year at all? unwired, or something like that, wasn't it? (matrix book anyways, iirc).

Several books were mentioned in last year's seminars at Origins and GenCon that are not listed on the 2006 schedule. Those include:

Unwired (Matrix book)
Running Wild (Critters book)
Players Guide (Companion revision? No working title mentioned)
GM's Guide (MJLBB sequel. No working title mentioned)
2 more "themed" city books, like Runner Havens.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity May 2 2006, 01:21 PM

I have a copy of System Failure and it was worth the money I payed for it. It is a good source book to cross over from SR 3 to SR 4.

Posted by: The ubbergeek May 2 2006, 02:04 PM

The 'Shadows of...' and 'Tagets' books are still qute good, just update the history and stuff.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity May 2 2006, 02:22 PM

I wish there was some sort of constant update like they have with Mechwarrior: Dark Age on the SR website.

Posted by: Shrike30 May 2 2006, 05:27 PM

I've found that being a GM is actually a good way to get sourcebooks. See, I have my group defray the costs of my picking up books... with 6 players, asking for 5 bucks apiece whenever a new book comes out covers the cost nicely, and since they're not coughing up a wad of cash in a lump, they don't mind the fact that the book is in my possession. Good way of guaranteeing books are available to the group at game, since a number of them prefer PDFs.

Posted by: mdynna May 2 2006, 10:22 PM

I'll add in my agreement to previous posts:
System Failure is easily converted but only really useful if you want your campaign to run "over" the events of 2064.

The Shadows of... books (America, Europe, Asia) are all still good and just need a little bit of "tweaking" to bring in line with SR4.

Dragons of the Sixth World will probably also be good for awhile if you want to do stuff with dragons.

Sprawl Survival Guide will also be good for awhile. In fact, many of the "standard" rules in SR4 came from SSG.

Basically, stay away from the "rule supplement" books. The "flavor" or "fluff" books are still worth it. However, if you can, I would recommend buying the cheaper PDF version of books rather than the printed. But that's a preference.

Posted by: Geekkake May 2 2006, 10:27 PM

QUOTE (mdynna)

However, if you can, I would recommend buying the cheaper PDF version of books rather than the printed. But that's a preference.

But then what would he read on the toilet?

That's where I come up with the most ideas to kill the PCs.

Posted by: Shrike30 May 2 2006, 11:22 PM

I can only imagine conversations over your gaming table...

"Cyber-controlled hellhounds with ruthenium dermal sheathes? Where do you come up with this shit?"
"Heh heh heh..."

Posted by: ronin3338 May 2 2006, 11:43 PM

QUOTE (CONAN9845)

In our group, I was the one that bought EVERY SR3 book that came out. With the switch to SR4, you have everything you need to play. You don't need any SR3 material.

SR3 was the same way...

You didn't "need" MitS to run a mage, you didn't "need" CC to have a Gun Bunny, but if you didn't you were missing a lot of important rules and clarifications.

SR4 will be the same. You won't need any of the new books, but you're going to really, really want them.

Posted by: CONAN9845 May 3 2006, 12:37 AM

QUOTE (ronin3338)

QUOTE (CONAN9845 @ May 1 2006, 11:50 PM)

In our group, I was the one that bought EVERY SR3 book that came out. With the switch to SR4, you have everything you need to play. You don't need any SR3 material.

Keep in mind that I was referring to not needing any OLD SR3 material, not any NEW SR4 stuff.

I hated System Failure, by the way.

Posted by: ronin3338 May 3 2006, 01:05 AM

Ah, you're saying you don't need SR3 stuff to run SR4? That's true.

Honestly, I hadn't read System Failure, but I think that in my game I'm going to tone down the "wireless is everywhere and in everything" aspect. I think they overdid it...

Posted by: Kanada Ten May 3 2006, 01:09 AM

They only begin to implement wireless in System Failure (which I loved) - something like 3 cities have it by 2066. Then it probably snowballed using advertising money and the Dot AR bubble... I mean the Internet is only ten years old and it's http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9908/02/asiatrail.idg/. Imagine with a culture already addicted to information...

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=7827 is a previous topic on the arrival speed of wireless.

Posted by: ronin3338 May 3 2006, 01:24 AM

Yeah, but I think that the wireless lifestyle in SR makes it too prevalent. Requiring people to broadcast their information is just rife for abuse...

Posted by: James McMurray May 3 2006, 01:27 AM

You're only required to broadcast in certain areas, usually corp grounds or high class neighborhoods. Presumably those are the areas where the most watchful eyes would also be, in order to avoid as much abuse as possible (or allow it, depending on the area).

That gives me an idea: a mafia / yakuza run restaurant so fancy you're required to broadcast your info. Having free and easy access to the commlinks and SINs of tons of rich people could be useful.

Posted by: Kanada Ten May 3 2006, 01:33 AM

My impression was that was only in A rated areas and above, along with workplaces (which is already coming). I think that comes more from the "new" government which took power after or rather due to System Failure. Considering that LA was sunk and thousands died from Winternight's attack, a few security measures were easy to implement (hell, they made not having a SIN a crime)...

Remember that vehicles already had to broadcast a VIN in 2060, so making people carry RFID tags doesn't seem so far off to me.

Obviously you can scale the wireless as desired. I've already made large parts of Seattle Dead Zones (the Ork Underground, the Barrens, the lower levels of some old super-apartment complexes).

Posted by: James McMurray May 3 2006, 01:35 AM

Not having a SIN isn't a crime yet, it just means you could be seriously screwed if you get into any kind of trouble, you can't find a decent job, and you can't do the millions of other little things that make life worth living like having a bank account accessible from a booby bar.

Posted by: Kanada Ten May 3 2006, 01:37 AM

Reread page 38 of SR4.

Posted by: ronin3338 May 3 2006, 01:49 AM

QUOTE (Kanada Ten)

[snip] along with workplaces (which is already coming).

Yeah, but that's your work ID, not your SSN or anything sensitive. And I don't think anyplace has you broadcast info, but rather there are readers that you pass through or near which "ping" you for ID.

I know some places are working on an active system, so that employees can be located instantly, but again, that's only your work info (which, for wageslaves is the same thing, I know)

Posted by: Kanada Ten May 3 2006, 02:02 AM

Well, you don't have to broadcast - it is legal to use an RFID which only activates when pinged, for example. I'm not exactly sure that knowing someone's SIN makes it that much easier to harm them. Everything pretty much requires a biometric conformation, making a SIN more like knowing a person's full name and date of birth. I agree that it's ripe for abuse in ways, but that's not exactly a turn off for me. Hell, knowing someone's cell number can give you access to everything about them if you hack the provider or just listen long enough... Anyway, I'm really not trying to convince you!