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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ EMP as a weapon

Posted by: Alex May 11 2006, 03:13 AM

While I recognize that it could be as much of a detriment to the PC as to his enemies, what stats would you use for an EMP (electromagnetic pulse)?

Posted by: Kanada Ten May 11 2006, 03:16 AM

Probably treat it like an AOE spell with Electric effect, but no primary damage.

Posted by: maikeru May 11 2006, 03:22 AM

EMP as a spell would also be kinda nice. Don't know if there is already one.

Posted by: FrankTrollman May 11 2006, 03:23 AM

Most electronics are grounded in the future because there's no FCC regulating harmful radio emmissions. But there's a limit to what that can do. The wireless antenna of your device by definition has to accept incoming electromagnetics - and that means that an EMP is going to fuse that antenna is going to melt. There's no reason that the rest of the device is going to be particularly harmed.

So I would treat an EMP as a jammer that persisted for every affected device until someone whipped out a microtronics kit and made a hardware check. More powerful EMPs, therefore, would affect devices with higher Signal ratings.

-Frank

Posted by: Aaron May 11 2006, 04:27 AM

Just throw a Combat spell with stun damage and an electrical elemental component. Vague reverse engineering yielded me these stats (names made up by me and probably bad):

Gotcha
Type: P • Range: T • Damage: S • Duration: I • DV: (F ÷ 2) - 1
Staticbolt
Type: P • Range: LOS • Damage: S • Duration: I • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 1
EMP Burst
Type: P • Range: LOS(A) • Damage: S • Duration: I • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 3

The Stun damage is ignored by devices, but they still have to roll against getting shut down. Of course, Street Magic will probably have something like this in it, but there you go.

Posted by: Shrike30 May 11 2006, 06:05 AM

My recollection is that most of the computer hardware in SR is optical. Wouldn't that render EMP largely useless except for screwing up wireless communications?

Posted by: Alex May 11 2006, 06:20 AM

QUOTE (FrankTrollman)

Most electronics are grounded in the future because there's no FCC regulating harmful radio emmissions. But there's a limit to what that can do. The wireless antenna of your device by definition has to accept incoming electromagnetics - and that means that an EMP is going to fuse that antenna is going to melt. There's no reason that the rest of the device is going to be particularly harmed.

Emphasis mine.

OK, I get that without the FCC or some other controlling body that electronics are not going to have to put up with "Rule 15"; however, how do you ground a wireless device?

An important note: EMP will actually work better with an antenna. Any complex circuit will fry. It doesn't even have to have a power source attached.

QUOTE (Shrike30)

My recollection is that most of the computer hardware in SR is optical. Wouldn't that render EMP largely useless except for screwing up wireless communications?

Optical would work just fine; however, I can't find a reference on the type of circuit.

Posted by: Crusher Bob May 11 2006, 07:20 AM

In addition, very high power EM fields may cause short (seconds to minutes) loss of consciousness, convulsions, short terms memory loss, and nausea. At least, that's what I remember from some of the literature on Transcranial magnetic stimulation (an alternative to ECT, where the strap your head to a honking electromagnet instead of giving you powerful electric shocks).

Posted by: Moon-Hawk May 12 2006, 01:58 PM

Computation is done optically, but as I understand it all the optical computers in SR still use an electronic power supply. So there'd still be something in there to fry, just not as much and not as delicate as our stuff. As was mentioned, the antenna (and immediate circuitry) would also be vulnerable. I will agree with the statement that a primarily optical device would still be easier to fix after an EMP than a primarily electronic one, though.

Posted by: Aaron May 12 2006, 05:00 PM

The rules as written have it covered. The worst electrical damage (an EMP, for example) can do is shut it down for a few combat turns.

Posted by: Cray74 May 12 2006, 05:53 PM

Basically, SR "electronics" (optical devices) were immune to EMP in earlier editions. Past discussions:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=7140
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=4769

Posted by: Witness May 12 2006, 05:58 PM

Optical 'electronics' ok. But what about power supplies. I know they're kind of ignored in SR, but they must be there. Wouldn't they be susceptible?
EDIT: oops skimped on reading the earlier posts properly on this one. Never mind.

Posted by: Butterblume May 12 2006, 06:00 PM

IIRC it was stated in previous editions, that cyberware was hardened against EMP.

Posted by: Witness May 12 2006, 06:05 PM

Fair enough if some things are hardened (not that hardening is necessarily perfect) but presumably EMPs can still be bad. As Winternight were keen to prove (although I guess they were lacing their EMPs with orichalcum- for some reason I forget).

Posted by: Shrike30 May 12 2006, 07:09 PM

Well, see... then it's a Nuclear Weapon Focus that ignores, say, that computer built into your dresser's ability Immunity to EMP Weapons (otherwise known as "Hardened Armoir").

Posted by: Lindt May 12 2006, 07:22 PM

As System Failure showed, even the new stuff isnt immune to EMP. Optical or not there is still a circit in your hardware that conducts electricty. It even had rules for cyberlimbs going foul for good with them.

Your wrist watch, gonzo. Your deck, well if it has some hardening built in it might have half a chance.

Posted by: Butterblume May 12 2006, 07:27 PM

I'd rule there is a difference between an EMP Grenade and a magically enhanced Atomic Bomb.

Posted by: Alex May 12 2006, 08:51 PM

QUOTE (Butterblume)

I'd rule there is a difference between an EMP Grenade and a magically enhanced Atomic Bomb.

As would I; however, I am looking for some rules on what an EMP grenade would do versus say, a large roll around suitcase sized EMP would do. Any thoughts?

Posted by: Lindt May 12 2006, 08:59 PM

EMP gernade might fry a toaster oven in the same room. A big suitcase could be a small nuke.

Posted by: FrankTrollman May 12 2006, 09:49 PM

QUOTE (Alex)

OK, I get that without the FCC or some other controlling body that electronics are not going to have to put up with "Rule 15"; however, how do you ground a wireless device?

You can't. At least, not completely.

Technically what you do is have a circuit breaker that engages a Faraday Cage in the event of a power surge through the antenna. So the effects would be:

Power Surge: As from an EMP grenade or stick n' shock charge - Circuit Breaker kicks in and the entire device shuts down for a few rounds while the charge normalizes and the circuit breaker switches back.

BIG Power Surge: As from a larger EMP burst or proximity to a nuclear weapon or whatever - Circuit Breaker kicks in and the entire device shuts down for a few rounds while the charge normalizes. In addition, the antenna itself is melted into slag as its Ohms are horribly exploited into heat by the excessive power draw. So once the device turns back on, its wireless capabilities will be burned out (though replaceable).

It's not technically "grounded" when operating normally, but the magic of circuit breakers can keep the device safe and snug inside a gold wire mesh. Safe from harm at the hands of brutish EMP. No power on Earth can save your antenna though.

-Frank

Posted by: Edward May 13 2006, 05:39 AM

In SR3 it aid EMP was useless because everything ran on optical circuits.

It doesn’t make sense but that’s what it said.

Hear is one way you could protect your antenna.

The antenna dos not connect directly to the signal interpreting sirkets but first goes threw a sirket breaker that will prevent damage and automatically reset in .05 seconds. This and primarily optical processing explains EMPs are uses.

The real reason is that an EMP is easy to make and there regular use would cause the game world to change into something quite different.

an EMP wont melt a physical antenna, they don’t have that much resistance or anywhere for the electricity to go. it /may/ happen with a sufficiently powerful EMP but it would have to be within the heat destruction radius of the nuke so the EMP is not required.

Edward