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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Anal Retentive ?
Posted by: Deadmoon May 14 2006, 08:42 AM
Looking at the rules for SR4 and I noticed that on the meta type attribute table there the very last column shows an INI with numbers below this. All of the values have a 2 as the first number then a 12 or 11 like so 2/11 with a 16 or 18 in parethesis 2/12(18). What are these numbers and where do they go on the char sheet.
Many thanks in advance as this is driving me nuts.
Posted by: Ophis May 14 2006, 09:07 AM
They don't, it's the listing for the Initive stat starts a t 2 (min Rea+min int) natural max of max rea+max int, can go up 50% from there (usually 18)
Posted by: TwitchtheOrk May 14 2006, 02:19 PM
Essentially Initive isn't an actual stat you can buy with BPs as it's simply a combination of your Reaction and Intuition. Because of that it has a higher starting point as you can't have 0 in either of those stats and as ever any number in ( ) is the maximum you can reach with augmentation like cyber and bio ware.
Some metatypes will have a higher maximum then others because ones such Elves get Reaction bonuses and a higher maximum for being an elf whilst others might have a lower maximum for being another metatype.
Posted by: Squinky May 14 2006, 03:56 PM
Just for clarification, no current metatypes get reaction bonuses. Trolls and the ever picked on Dwarves just get screwed on it because of their lower max in reaction and intuition.
Posted by: TBRMInsanity May 14 2006, 04:46 PM
Trolls and Dwarfs have other abilities that compinsate for their lack of speed in combat. The fact that a Troll is nothing more then a tank on legs, and Dwarves are a pathogen's worse nightmare (I found that out the hard way, my poor virus, my poor poor virus).
Posted by: FanGirl May 14 2006, 05:56 PM
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Initive |
| QUOTE (TwitchtheOrk) |
| Initive |
Dammit, it's spelled Initiative! Initiative! INITIATIVE!
RAAAH! FANGIRL SMASH!
Posted by: Kremlin KOA May 14 2006, 06:33 PM
http://www.outpostnine.com/editorials/teacher16.html
Posted by: Deadmoon May 14 2006, 06:58 PM
Thanks guys for all the answers. Rereading my ? made me feel like a 2 year old. I swear I have better grammar when I'm awake.
I will never post at 4am again
I will never post at 4am again
I will never post at 4am again
I will never post at 4am again
I will never post at 4am again
Dead
Posted by: Squinky May 15 2006, 01:08 AM
| QUOTE (TBRMInsanity) |
| Trolls and Dwarfs have other abilities that compinsate for their lack of speed in combat. The fact that a Troll is nothing more then a tank on legs, and Dwarves are a pathogen's worse nightmare (I found that out the hard way, my poor virus, my poor poor virus). |
Dwarfs suck pretty much. They have to buy special gear, cost more bp wise, and get less body than an ork which costs less.
And really, those extra dice against pathogens dosen't mean squat. Then of course the run slower and always seem to end up being riggers, for some unknown reason.
Posted by: James McMurray May 15 2006, 01:37 AM
Extra willpower can be really useful.
Posted by: TwitchtheOrk May 15 2006, 02:51 AM
| QUOTE (FanGirl) | ||||
Dammit, it's spelled Initiative! Initiative! INITIATIVE! RAAAH! FANGIRL SMASH! |
I knew I did that wrong... but couldn't recall the correct spelling off the top of my head and the boards spellcheck was stumped on it aswell.
Posted by: Squinky May 15 2006, 05:04 AM
| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
| Extra willpower can be really useful. |
For spell slingers? Build point wise it is better to go elf and get that extra charisma.
For stun boxes? Dosen't amount to much.
Posted by: hobgoblin May 15 2006, 05:34 AM
for resisting non-physical spells 
Posted by: James McMurray May 15 2006, 05:42 PM
That extra charisma as an elf is only good if you're going to be a shaman. If you want to be a mage then dwarf is the route to take. Extra body is nice, and the bonus strength can help cover up what is frequently a spellcaster's weak spot. I like the thermo as well, especially now that mage goggles are too high availability to start with as thermo.
But, having said all that, I still usually play human shamen when I'm looking at a spellcaster. Now that everybody summons on the fly I might try a mage out. I just never liked having to summon ahead of time.
Posted by: mdynna May 15 2006, 06:16 PM
| QUOTE (Squinky) |
| Dwarfs suck pretty much. They have to buy special gear, cost more bp wise, and get less body than an ork which costs less. |
1) The rules say that for "most common gear there is no extra cost". I suppose its up to the GM to say what is "uncommon" gear. I suppose for something big and expensive like a vehicle you would pay more, but it seems for "common" things like weapons, and armour, no modifications are needed.
2) Yes Orks get a better Body bonus, but I suppose that depends how much that matters to you. Street Sam? Sure, Ork is an obvious choice. But what about, say, a Hacker/Face (which happens to be my latest character)? Body, and Strength? Yes, an Ork's are better but I don't care about that. Charisma and Logic limits? WOAH, that does matter. Under SR3 the Dwarf was by far the best "bang for your buck" as far as metatypes went (they had NO penalties, besides running speed, and they were the only ones with a Will bonus), and IMO they continue to be the most efficient choice for a more "well rounded" character.
In fact, as I was building my Hacker/Face I actually found that (thanks to free physcial attrib BP) I was able to make him a Hacker/Face/Half-sam. He's the most versatile character I've made in some time. I ran the numbers with other races, the Dwarf was by far the best choice.
Posted by: Butterblume May 15 2006, 06:51 PM
| QUOTE (mdynna) |
| Under SR3 the Dwarf was by far the best "bang for your buck" as far as metatypes went (they had NO penalties, besides running speed, and they were the only ones with a Will bonus), and IMO they continue to be the most efficient choice for a more "well rounded" character. |
Yeah, in SR3 they were basically free or cost 5 BP, depending on your method of chargen. In SR4 they cost more, and have more disadvantages, so I won't say they are the most efficient... but i still play dwarves, of course
.| QUOTE (mdynna) |
| In fact, as I was building my Hacker/Face I actually found that (thanks to free physcial attrib BP) I was able to make him a Hacker/Face/Half-sam. He's the most versatile character I've made in some time. I ran the numbers with other races, the Dwarf was by far the best choice. |
I've played that character in SR3
. (but I didn't run the numbers, I just went with it 
).
Posted by: TBRMInsanity May 18 2006, 02:01 PM
I've always said if it is something that they can live with (ie having a commlink that won't fit in a Dwarf sized pocket) then that is ok. For weapons if you have a standard weapon that is not Dwarf modified I put a -1 Dice penalty to it. Same if you are an ork. Only clothing and armour need to be customized (just try to wear your dad's clothing when your 5, it doesn't work).
Posted by: Tarantula May 18 2006, 02:55 PM
Just a FYI, by the rules, its a -2 dice penalty for dwarves/trolls to use something not sized properly. Or a -4 for a troll using a dwarf sized object, and vice versa.
Posted by: NightHaunter May 18 2006, 04:06 PM
| QUOTE (TwitchtheOrk) | ||||||
I knew I did that wrong... but couldn't recall the correct spelling off the top of my head and the boards spellcheck was stumped on it aswell. |
Dude, if you can't spell it, CHEAT.
The Abv. is INI.
Posted by: TBRMInsanity May 19 2006, 01:22 PM
If you can't spell (like me) use the spell checker. I wouldn't be able to live without it.
Posted by: Aaron May 19 2006, 02:23 PM
| QUOTE (NightHaunter) |
| The Abv. is INI. |
I just say 'nish.
Posted by: Casazil May 19 2006, 06:15 PM
Ok here is a question seeing as Initiative is an attribute you get by adding 2 other attributes together thus not allowing for one to buy it up with BP or Karma. Why didn't they put Edge as the last attribute? Think about it who cares if the Initiative max numbers are in the chart when they're numbers you can't modify with either BP or Karma. However Edge is modifiable via BP or Karma just makes more sense to me.
Posted by: James McMurray May 19 2006, 06:22 PM
I just did a quick test and the spellchecker won't help. It thought I wanted to spell "intuitive" when I had it check "inititive." 
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