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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Some Thoughts on Drones

Posted by: Jaid Jun 8 2006, 01:02 AM

Just wondering, really...

1) how do you handle drone ammunition? i mean, can i mix and match? (you can have up to 250 in a weapon mount, iirc) that is, can i have 50 normal, 50 flechette, 50 gel, 50 stick n shock, and 50 APDS? if so, how do you choose which one is being used, or do they have to be used in a specific order which is set when you load it? if not, how do you figure out the ammunition for, say, an alpha, which naturally requires 2 kinds of ammunition, and in an order which you likely cannot know in advance, i would think. do grenade rounds use up the same amount of space as normal bullets?

here's my theory on that: the gun has it's clip still (or whatever... this would expand the ammo capacity by what the gun has inside it, although that ammo cannot be unloaded unless there is room in the mount). reloading takes the normal time for it's loading type, and you can only put as much ammo in as it would hold normally at once. the ammo in the mount is simply used to reload the "clip" as needed. in the event that there is a faster way of doing things (ie loading 1 bullet into a clip at a time or just loading a clip) the faster way is assumed. if needed, drone attributes are assumed to equal it's pilot rating. and grenade rounds use twice as much space as normal ammo. anything "dropped" is simply placed back into storage. (ie, you use the time for "dropping" a clip, any bullets left are simply placed into storage).

2) i am putting together some drone "packages" and possibly other rigging gear (commlinks, etc), for my reference. the basic idea is to make chargen faster for myself. would you be interested in me posting that here? i am also considering some that would be intended for corps/NPCs to use (since characters likely won't be able to buy them at chargen due to availability caps) as well.

basically, it would have some basic drone setups (ex a cost efficient drone for combat purposes might be a doberman with a sensor package including a camera, image link, and smartlink), with different sensor packages, and weapon packages (ex, a long range weapon package might include a ruger 100, a smartgun system, and a smartlink on the imaging scope), and so forth.

who knows, maybe i'll even add on to this later (for example, i might make cyberware packages or something), but for now, this is what i'm thinking... any thoughts?

Posted by: Witness Jun 8 2006, 01:08 AM

I must say that I'm in the 'relaxed camp' about this sort of thing. I just don't want to bookkeep it. If ammo-shortage seems to be on the cards, and would make a good plot point / obstacle, then I'd just say "you've not been able to stock up, you've overused this ammo and you're about to run out."
I think SR4 encourages that sort of attitude, but I appreciate that it won't be popular in many quarters. And more importantly I don't think it's the sort of answer you're after, so just ignore me.

Posted by: Serbitar Jun 8 2006, 12:00 PM

QUOTE (Jaid)

yes

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 8 2006, 04:47 PM

QUOTE (Jaid)

here's my theory on that: the gun has it's clip still (or whatever... this would expand the ammo capacity by what the gun has inside it, although that ammo cannot be unloaded unless there is room in the mount). reloading takes the normal time for it's loading type, and you can only put as much ammo in as it would hold normally at once. the ammo in the mount is simply used to reload the "clip" as needed. in the event that there is a faster way of doing things (ie loading 1 bullet into a clip at a time or just loading a clip) the faster way is assumed. if needed, drone attributes are assumed to equal it's pilot rating. and grenade rounds use twice as much space as normal ammo. anything "dropped" is simply placed back into storage. (ie, you use the time for "dropping" a clip, any bullets left are simply placed into storage).

I've always assumed that vehicular modification for a drone involves adapting the weapon to feed from either a high-capacity drum or a belt mechanism. Reloading magazines ("clips" in SR) is a fairly complex, time consuming process that involves a lot of stuffing, sliding, and generally being annoying. Putting miniature cyberhands or whatever onto the drone to move magazines around or reload them seems like a phenomenal waste of resources when you could just use a belt or large drum.

As for getting two types of ammunition feed, well... I'd probably let a player cough up a little extra (probably price-guided by the "dual ammunition feed" design choice from the Cannon Companion's weapon design rules) and write it off as being two belts linked up to the weapon. When the rigger orders it, the mechanism breaks the belt just short of the feed, moves the belt ends up or down the inch or so it takes to move the other belt into line, opens the mechanism, ejects the chambered round, and feeds in the next round off the other belt. If you're working off the "big drum" theory, this gets easier... basically, it detatches the current drum and moves the new one in line, then cycles the mechanism.

RE: underbarrel grenade launchers - This is not the primary weapon system that you've got attached. I'd say that you get the 8 or whatever rounds in the magazine for the GL, and that's it... you have to access the drone to reload it after that.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 8 2006, 07:00 PM

im no gun nut by a long shot, but i would guess that a belt feed kit should be possible for most recoil operated weapons (and maybe some gas operated ones to).

as for drums of ammo, im guessing your thinking of those C-mag type solutions (basicly a clip with a "snail shell" like extension).

hmm, pop an adapter into the clip slot and have some kind of system for simple mechanical replacement of the drum itself.

btw, i think that when they have multiple belts they basicly hook the new belt onto the end of the old one. hell, mostly a belt is just a lot of small plastic or metal links that go around the bullets, locking them together.

so it should be a snap to do so if they are correctly aligned.

or how did the WW2 fighters handle it? prelinked boxes of belts?

Posted by: Edward Jun 8 2006, 07:30 PM

I would track the ammo but allow easy combination of different types. The different types would probably be achieved using some form of powered multy chambered magazine. Im seeing separate magazines for each ammunition type and feeding cogs that move ammunition from eth appropriate magazine into the weapons direct feed.

Posted by: Jaid Jun 8 2006, 10:39 PM

i didn't say i assumed the drones have hands that reload the guns lol...

or maybe i did... i'm too lazy to go look

a better way to say it is that the gun has to be reloaded, and it takes as long as it would if a person were reloading it.

incidentally, and on an only slightly related note, i personally assume that the gun on a drone is heavily modified, and can't really be used by a normal person without modifying it for their use. i'm really not sure i could accept a "universal weapon mount" or anything like that as a concept... i would personally assume that for a gun to be mounted, you have to modify the gun to fit the mount.

Posted by: Demon_Bob Jun 13 2006, 05:43 PM

OK. I prefer to do this in one of two ways.

Figure out where in the clip the different types of ammo are.
ex. The first 10 are normal, second 10 are Ex-Ex, ect
This creates additional book keeping.

Install Short belts with guides to a remove compartment separators.
A mechanism will break one belt and attach another as asimple action.
This will leave 3 to 10 rounds of the old ammo left to be infeed into the firearm.

Posted by: Lagomorph Jun 13 2006, 06:06 PM

We've always ruled one ammo type, usually in our games by the time a gun drone is needed, 50 rounds of FA isn't going to do a whole lot. In SR3 it was possible to have the dual clip style gun so that you could have two feeds, and I'm sure that it is possible in SR4 to do the same. But for the most part, a drone with an alpha with UGL should be multi-role enough for most needs.

Posted by: Tetsuyama Jun 13 2006, 06:18 PM

QUOTE (Jaid)

2) i am putting together some drone "packages" and possibly other rigging gear (commlinks, etc), for my reference. the basic idea is to make chargen faster for myself. would you be interested in me posting that here? i am also considering some that would be intended for corps/NPCs to use (since characters likely won't be able to buy them at chargen due to availability caps) as well.

basically, it would have some basic drone setups (ex a cost efficient drone for combat purposes might be a doberman with a sensor package including a camera, image link, and smartlink), with different sensor packages, and weapon packages (ex, a long range weapon package might include a ruger 100, a smartgun system, and a smartlink on the imaging scope), and so forth.

who knows, maybe i'll even add on to this later (for example, i might make cyberware packages or something), but for now, this is what i'm thinking... any thoughts?

I'd be interested in seeing these too. I kind of have some "standard" cyberwear packages that I've been using on a few characters that I've been putting together as variations on a theme.

Some packages I'd be especially interested in would be a drone rigger set or two for covert ops characters (the better to dodge the guards with), and a drone rigger set for recon/spotting/sniping (the better to *find* the guards with

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 13 2006, 06:27 PM

One ammo type, attached launchers have standard ammunition. Besides, 250 grenades would be too costly anyway.