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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Explaining SR ammo costs

Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 8 2006, 09:13 PM

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=178

QUOTE

SAAMI analysis projects that a round that now costs pennies would cost several dollars each! A far cry from the half-cent claim made by Lockyer and his allies.

Well, with that quote ammo prices in SR make perfect sense. All bullets have serial numbers. That's why basic ammo costs 2

per bullet.

QUOTE

SAAMI estimates it would take three weeks to produce what is now completed in one DAY. This sort of slowdown would cripple the industry. It would also require that ammunition, which is now made in production lots of millions, be made in lots of 20, 50 or 100 rounds

And this massive reduction in production explains why you can't buy more than 10 bullets per day.

So, next time your players do something stupid have their bullets traced.

Posted by: Catsnightmare Jun 8 2006, 09:20 PM

I always figured the government taxed ammo. How else are they still making revenue what with Corps becoming law unto themselves.

Posted by: Voran Jun 8 2006, 09:26 PM

Heh, just like "The Man" to likely make making your own bullets illegal! If we can't trace it, it's illegal!

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 8 2006, 09:50 PM

I always figured that "standard" ammo was a pretty cool standard round (like SS109... while it has a "penetrator" design and reportedly fragments when it strikes a meaty target due to a combination of spin, construction, and velocity, it'd still fit the definition of "standard" ammo in SR). The costs were always too high for me, but my houserule that "standard" ammo was bought in boxes of 50, not 10, made life easier.

When you start talking about the exotic ammunition types (flechette, explosive, APDS, or what-have-you), I'm totally cool with those rounds being these frighteningly overengineered, small-batch uberammos. Hell, decent hollowpoints *today* can cost a buck or more per round, paying 5 for an explosive bullet seems pretty reasonable

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jun 8 2006, 09:59 PM

QUOTE (Shrike30)

fragments when it strikes a meaty target due to a combination of spin, construction, and velocity

If by "spin" you mean the rotation of the bullet caused by rifling, that doesn't really belong there.

I can accept that SS109(/M855) is pretty cool, it definitely doesn't get more standard than that. Centerfire rifle ammo also doesn't get much cheaper than that, except for Eastern European 7.62x39mm FMJ.

The US military buys in 5.56x45mm M995 tungsten carbide AP rounds for $1.21 per cartridge ($0.25 for M855). Similarly 7.62x51mm M993 AP rounds are procured at $1.8-1.9/cartridge (vs. ~$0.5/cartridge for M80 ball). The .50 BMG Mk 211 Mod 0s, which are the closest thing to a real-world small arms explosive bullet, and a very efficient design at that, are procured at ~$7.5-9/cartridge, compared to a bit over $2 per linked M33 (standard ball) cartridge.

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 8 2006, 10:21 PM

QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)

QUOTE (Shrike30)

fragments when it strikes a meaty target due to a combination of spin, construction, and velocity

If by "spin" you mean the rotation of the bullet caused by rifling, that doesn't really belong there.

I was under the impression that one of the factors governing the effectiveness of SS109/M855 was the rate of turn of the barrel it was fired out of. Is velocity really the main/only governing aspect on whether or not the round fragments?

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jun 8 2006, 10:33 PM

There is no way for a firearm to have a rifling twist rate high enough to stabilize a bullet in flesh. This would require a barrel that looks like a corkscrew. For a bullet in flesh, it makes no difference if it's spinning at 1 rotation per 7 inches or 1 rotation per 11 inches, it will yaw just as readily.

It's the design of the bullet and the velocity. The M193 and M855 are very rear-heavy, which means they are unstable and usually yaw in tissue. In practice it seems the M193, while a shorter bullet and by design less rear-heavy, and fired from barrels with slower twist rates (because it requires less spin to be stabilized in flight than the M855) yaws even more readily in flesh than the M855. Since the M193 is also fired at a higher velocity, thanks to being lighter (55gr vs. 62gr), it also fragments more reliably.

Posted by: Butterblume Jun 8 2006, 10:36 PM

Just to toss in a number, too:

When I was in the military (in the last millenium ), they told us one regular shot 7,62*51mm were worth about 1 Deutschmark, which was, depending on the foreign exchange rate. about 0,4$ - 0,5 $, iirc.

Posted by: Austere Emancipator Jun 8 2006, 10:39 PM

That corresponds pretty closely with the figures in the US DoD procurement budgets. They are currently paying a bit over $0.5 for the standard 7.62x51mm FMJs (the M80), but that'd be less when they purchase more of it, and there's the effect of inflation.

Posted by: Lindt Jun 8 2006, 10:48 PM

I always explained it as 'clean' ammo, either listed as stolen via its serial #, or its not commercially made, and thus dosent have a serial #.

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 8 2006, 11:12 PM

Thanks, AE, that makes sense.

The whole "higher velocity vs heavier slug" thing has always has me thinking about what weight of expanding ammunition I keep around for things other than targets. If only this were simple...

Posted by: Rock Jun 18 2006, 10:39 PM

I don't think each round is serial numbered, but rather to buy ammunition, you need ID of some sorts. Since Shadowrunners are outside of the system (SINless), they can stroll into their local Stuffer Shack and buy a nukable burrito and a Playboy, but not a box of ammo. The inflated prices are street prices. Figure someone playing by the rules who walks into a Weapons World gets the ammo for 1/2 to 1/4 the listed price.

Posted by: nezumi Jun 19 2006, 03:12 AM

Steve, that's what the Street Index is supposed to represent. The increase of cost for buying it on the street.