Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Upgrading Cyberware

Posted by: neon_samurai Jun 12 2006, 03:39 PM

What is the proccess to upgrade Cyberware? Do you have to pay full essence cost for upgrading from Wired Reflexes II to III?

Does essence come back if cyber is removed?

Never quite understood how that worked.

Thanks in advance

Posted by: stevebugge Jun 12 2006, 03:47 PM

You don't actually get essence back, one essence is lost to implantation it's gone. However if you upgrade your wired reflexes, you do get credit for essence already spent, so the cost of the upgrade in essence points is only the difference between the two. If you remove a cyber component and don't replace it you would have an unused essence hole more or less, a pool of previously lost but now unassigned essence you can implant against before losing any more off your essence rating.

Posted by: UndeadPoet Jun 12 2006, 03:48 PM

QUOTE

What is the proccess to upgrade Cyberware? Do you have to pay full essence cost for upgrading from Wired Reflexes II to III?

You only pay the essence for the highest level.

QUOTE

Does essence come back if cyber is removed?

No official rules.
The houserule in our group is that it does come back.

Posted by: Jaid Jun 12 2006, 03:55 PM

QUOTE

What is the proccess to upgrade Cyberware? Do you have to pay full essence cost for upgrading from Wired Reflexes II to III?

there is no process in SR4. in SR3, at least, the answer was yes, unless you chose a specific option for the surgery to remove your old cyber.

QUOTE

Does essence come back if cyber is removed?

again, in SR3, no, it does not. it stays lost. the best you could do was to leave behind an "essence hole" which could then be filled with other cyber.

QUOTE

Never quite understood how that worked.

Thanks in advance

no problem.

Posted by: Teulisch Jun 12 2006, 03:56 PM

It depends on the ware.

If i want to go from rating A to rating B of the same grade of ware, we simply add the extra ware for the upgrade. this requires the availibility of the higher rating, as well as a surgeon to implant the ware, and a place to recover from surgury. so wired 2 to 3 is simply 2 more essence lost, less the savings from higher grade ware if its not standard.

If i want to go from grade A to grade B ware, we first remove the old ware, then implant the new ware in the 'essence hole' left by the original ware. If the original ware was 0.5 esence, and the new ware is 0.4 essence, then you have an essence hole of 0.1 essence. you dont get it back, but you can put more ware in that hole.

The problem with losing essence, is you can lose it from other sources than cyberware. if a vampire drains a point of essence from you, that essence is gone forever. and you die if essence drops to zero or less. you could probably put ware in the essence hole created by the drain if you live. Im not sure, but i think certain types of serious injury may also risk essence loss.

Where things may get interesting, is if you were to remove wired reflexes and implant synaptic boosters. as this would be a major change to the balance of cyber vs bioware, the end result depends a lot on how much ware you had in the first place. if you have 3 essence of cyber and 2 essence of bioware, and remove alphaware wired 2, then you go from 4 essence loss (3+[2/2]) to 2.3 essence loss (2+(.6/2)), and add another 1.5 loss, for 3.8 essence loss total- with a hole of 0.2 essence, despite the new ware being 0.9 essence less than the old ware.

Posted by: booklord Jun 12 2006, 04:19 PM

I hated so many parts of Cannon Companion.

My House Rules
----------------------------------
1) Essense once lost could never come back except under EXTREME gameplay conditions. ( Never happened in any of my campaigns )

2) When a character had cyberware removed the essense hole was automatic and equal to the amount of the removed cyberware.

3) No surgery no matter how good or how bad could ever increase or decrease the essense cost of a piece of cyberware.

Nice and simple.

Posted by: Nim Jun 12 2006, 04:22 PM

QUOTE (Teulisch)

Where things may get interesting, is if you were to remove wired reflexes and implant synaptic boosters. as this would be a major change to the balance of cyber vs bioware, the end result depends a lot on how much ware you had in the first place. if you have 3 essence of cyber and 2 essence of bioware, and remove alphaware wired 2, then you go from 4 essence loss (3+[2/2]) to 2.3 essence loss (2+(.6/2)), and add another 1.5 loss, for 3.8 essence loss total- with a hole of 0.2 essence, despite the new ware being 0.9 essence less than the old ware.

Correct, as I'm reading it. Under the SR4 mechanic, your biggest 'bang for your buck' in terms of Essence comes when you have roughly equal amounts of cyberware and bioware. Replacing one with the other in a way that increases the spread will tend to cost you more. Now, that said, in places where both cyber and bio can accomplish the same thing, the bioware tends to be more essence-friendly, so if you're replacing 2 Essence of cyber with 2 Essence of bio, you're probably getting an upgrade in the process.

Posted by: Butterblume Jun 12 2006, 05:16 PM

QUOTE (booklord)

My House Rules
[...]
2) When a character had cyberware removed the essense hole was automatic and equal to the amount of the removed cyberware.

3) No surgery no matter how good or how bad could ever increase or decrease the essense cost of a piece of cyberware.

I second that (and include bioware

Posted by: Nasrudith Jun 13 2006, 12:21 AM

Lost essense can never be regained (save essense drain critter power) according to page 61 of the main book.