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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Greater spirits vs normal spirits

Posted by: Pendaric Jun 15 2006, 03:20 PM

Very simply a Greater spirit is, a well, Greater spirit and will obviously cream a normal spirit in its enhanced material form. So whats my point?

In astral combat all spirit combat is run off force level and due to the high drain of Invoking most Greater spirits are lower force than their normal high end brethern.
So in a quick combat simulation the Greater Elemental loses to its high force normal elemntal every time?
This is true for all greater spirits vs normal 'average' force spirits per say, another example of rules diverging from intent.

Any house rulings out there already?
Currently running on Greater wins out against normal spirits but this lacks finess when applied to situation as diverse as free spirits and multiple normal spirits vs greater spirits.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: Sharaloth Jun 15 2006, 10:06 PM

depends. Great form nature spirits can always dodge out of the more powerful non-great form nature spirit's domain, give them the raz, and then possibly do something nasty to them safely beyond their range.

GF Elementals are a different story. That's where a force-to-force power disparity is more evident.

Posted by: Apathy Jun 16 2006, 02:32 PM

Like Sharaloth said, not having the domain restrictions are nice. The other thing would be their ability to treat their powers as AOE attacks. There's few things as powerful as an AOE Confusion power adding +4 to the TNs of every opponent at once.

A force 4 Great Form might lose one-on-one to a force 6 normal spirit, but it can own a watcher attack pack that would bring the normal spirit down with friends in melee modifiers.

Posted by: Lindt Jun 16 2006, 02:39 PM

Great form elementals are nice, but not the step up you get with great form nature or elemental spirits. 2 words, storm strike.

Posted by: Pendaric Jun 16 2006, 06:26 PM

Arrghhh! IS THERE A HOUSE RULE FOR ASTRAL COMBAT BETWEEN GREATER AND LESSER SPIRITS? LINDT your answer should have been no.

My fault really shouldn't have put. "Any thoughts."

Posted by: Lindt Jun 16 2006, 07:25 PM

No, sheesh.

A great forms advantage in spirtual combat comes from the initates grade, and ability to add armor, body, or reach to a spirit. 107 MitS.

Posted by: Apathy Jun 16 2006, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (Pendaric)

Arrghhh! IS THERE A HOUSE RULE FOR ASTRAL COMBAT BETWEEN GREATER AND LESSER SPIRITS? LINDT your answer should have been no.

My fault really shouldn't have put. "Any thoughts."

No, I don't house-rule it, because I like it the way it is. Great forms have their uses (ignore domain restrictions, area attacks, not counting vs summon limit...) but they're not the end-all, be-all. The extra bonuses they get during invoking (reach, body, armor, whatever) give them enough of an edge to make up for maybe one point of force, and that seems about right to me.

Posted by: Pendaric Jun 17 2006, 08:27 PM

Thank you gentalmen. The astral combat as oppose to the physical combat of greater spirits, where they get their bonuses, is the only sticking point in another wise ordered spirit world. I was looking for a fast and loose rule of thumb for the above conflicts. So I am happy with Ref call and grey space I suppose leads to interesting play.....