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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Commlink/AR interface questions

Posted by: Jaguar Wong Jun 19 2006, 05:23 PM

I have a somewhat fluff related question. If someone has a standard commlink, but no special way to interact with AR, I remember the book mentioning the need to use a scroll wheel (or other physical interaction through the commlink), but if someone had a smartlinked gun subscribed to their commlink (with the appropriate image/smartlink eye wear), how would they issue commands like switching modes, ejecting the magazine and firing without actually having to touch their commlinks?

Is a datajack, trode net/sim module necessary for issuing "mental" (would that be DNI?) commands to things like subscribed devices, AROs, and other commlink related abilities? I some type of DNI is needed for the speed and ease of a smart weapon, is that listed somewhere I'm not looking?

I know there are options like AR gloves to interface with AR, but for a DNI with AR/devices do datajacks, commlink cyberware, and simrig/trode nets give me that connection? I know they're necessary for VR, so I figured that would be what I'm looking for as far as AR goes as well.

Also, is the control rig cyberware necessary to control drones and vehicles? Could you do the same through a cold sim trode net? Which leads to another question. If I've got a motorcycle set up so a rigger could control it, could I essentially issue it basic driving commands (like plot a simple navigation course at a slightly higher than speed limit speed) and just start burning clips into the car next to me with my MP-5 (no hands on the wheel)? I know more complicated maneuvers require a complex action, but in the midddle of all the weaving and stunting, I figure switching to a quick simple command to the vehicle's "dogbrain" would allow for that surprise tactic of putting all my focus on the pursuer (obviously some penalties would apply to this type of tactic).

And also, this is my first post...Hello. I just got my SR4 copy last week, and I'm itchin' to run an SR style A-Team adventure with my group this weekend.

BTW, I'm sorry if this has already been discussed. I tried a search for commlink interface or AR interface and kept getting errors. Searches for just AR or commlink retured far too many results to wade through.

Posted by: ornot Jun 19 2006, 08:05 PM

There are probably others that will provide a better explanation/description than me, but for my two pence read on.

If the character has no special method for interacting with a commlink be it a datajack, trodes AR gloves or whatever then they are losing a lot of the functionality of the smartlinked gun. They'd still get the handy dandy crosshairs and other info in their contacts/glasses/goggles, which are in wireless communication with their comlink and thus smartgun, but they would lose the ability to command the smartgun.

For the essence-concerned a trode net of some sort is the best option, as I believe this provides a DNI. If you are prepared to sport 'ware then a datajack or even an implanted comlink will do the job as easily. The impression I get of a simrig is that these are sort of like an implanted trode net. The datajack, as far as I can tell, doesn't provide full sensory information like a trode rig does, althoug it still lets you send mental commands.

The control rig is a different peice of cyber, that gives bonus dice when rigging. I believe it is possible to rig without one, you just won't be so good.

As far as programming a cars AI to drive for you, you'd need some kind of pilot/agent in the car. Drones come with pilots, but vehicles designed to be driven by a metahuman don't. While the car has a number of sensors and other doohickies that make driving easier/safer (collision detectors, motion detectors, route planners) it's not KITT unless you also fit a pilot.

I believe that if you are rigging a car and get more than one IP a turn then you can shoot other cars, as you only need to expend one complex action driving the car. If you are using your bonus IPs for rigging the car I don't think you can use them for actions that don't involve rigging but I could be wrong.

On a final note, welcome to Dumpshock (although I'm a noob here too) and good luck with your game at the weekend.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 19 2006, 08:14 PM

i would hazard a guess that the AR system would allow for voice commands.
still, i fail to see how anything below simsense (trode/jack) interaction will allow one to issue commands faster to the gun then by basicly moving your thumb to the related switch or button...

Posted by: Jaguar Wong Jun 19 2006, 11:47 PM

ornot,
Thanks, I think that pretty much sums it all up.

hobgoblin,
I agree completely. In game terms anyway. I don't see how a smartlinked firearm allows one to eject a magazine faster than hitting the proper button/switch/lever. But in flavor terms, carrying a gun in a holster with the safety on, then using the smartlink to switch the safety off before your hand is even on the grip pulling it would be one of the "flavor" actions that would occur in game.

Voice activation was my other guess, but I was just curious about the whole DNI angle.

Thanks for your help, though guys. I just wanted to make sure I'm including all the proper gear for the characters, so my players won't be left high and dry if they forget to grab a particular piece of equipment.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 20 2006, 12:38 AM

i was thinking more in terms of how hitting a AR button would be no faster then hitting a physical button. a thought on the other hand...

Posted by: Jaguar Wong Jun 20 2006, 12:52 AM

QUOTE (hobgoblin)

i was thinking more in terms of how hitting a AR button would be no faster then hitting a physical button. a thought on the other hand...

Actually, hitting an AR button on the commlink would be slower IMO (the hand on the gun isn't going to be slower than another hand reaching for the commlink AR control). Yeah, thinking about switching and having things happen is a huge benefit, but some things don't really seem that much faster than not using the smartlink. For example, gesturing is a free action, but ejecting a magazine from a pistol is essentially a gesture in real life. I mean I'm not going to worry about it in game, but certain aspects like firing a weapon, or ejecting the "clip" don't really seem all that impressive. ammo count, aiming (crosshairs), and other useful gun data on the other hand sounds like a great benefit to the user.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 20 2006, 02:37 AM

the AR button dont have to be on the comlink, with gloves it can hover in mid air

i think its one of those "look at the speed of that samurai" or something kinda feature. one more thing that allow the dedicated gun user with smartlink be a little bit better then a guard or similar. as one can now use 1 simple action to reload rather then 2, you have another simple action where you can put some bullets down range.

allso, while this may not make much sense on your avarage pistol, how about rifles or smgs? unless we are talking uzi style smgs, the clip/magazine will have its release mounted so that you need to do it with your other hand.

for a weapon like that, a mental release could be faster then reaching out and pushing the button, instead you just reach for the replacement while the empty one falls to the ground. but im just guessing here...

so it could be an artifact created from applying the same rules on all clip/magazine loaded firearms...

Posted by: Nim Jun 20 2006, 03:26 AM

To get the speed they're talking about, you could go for something with less motion to it. The AR glove could sense a particular way of tensing your wrist, say, or a pair of small finger movements. Some of the current work on prosthetics goes in that direction - forget training the user to make a particular gesture. Put the device on them and have it monitor the muscle impulses and micromovements they're making when they think about doing the particular thing they want to do, and let the MACHINE do the learning.

Posted by: Jaguar Wong Jun 20 2006, 03:31 AM

hobgoblin,
Good point. I hadn't thought of other firearms when thinking about the benefits of a smartlink.

Nim,
Yeah I can see that. Good call. That puts the AR gloves closer to the DNI options. I guess I was just stuck in today's mindset, and putting the whole use of AR gloves on par with Jonny Mnemonic.

Posted by: Nim Jun 20 2006, 03:58 AM

QUOTE (Jaguar Wong)

Yeah I can see that. Good call. That puts the AR gloves closer to the DNI options. I guess I was just stuck in today's mindset, and putting the whole use of AR gloves on par with Jonny Mnemonic.

Yeah. You don't want to go too far, though, because the DNI needs to keep its edge. That sort of twitch-signalling to AR ought to be limited to a small number of very specific tasks...where DNI can get that sort of speed on /everything/.

Posted by: Dranem Jun 20 2006, 09:46 AM

QUOTE (ornot)

For the essence-concerned a trode net of some sort is the best option, as I believe this provides a DNI. If you are prepared to sport 'ware then a datajack or even an implanted comlink will do the job as easily. The impression I get of a simrig is that these are sort of like an implanted trode net. The datajack, as far as I can tell, doesn't provide full sensory information like a trode rig does, althoug it still lets you send mental commands.

Datajacks have always provided full sensory input, they're a direct fibre connection with your brain! In SR4 the ASIST, chipreader and small memory package is already included at no additional costs.

QUOTE (ornot)

As far as programming a cars AI to drive for you, you'd need some kind of pilot/agent in the car. Drones come with pilots, but vehicles designed to be driven by a metahuman don't. While the car has a number of sensors and other doohickies that make driving easier/safer (collision detectors, motion detectors, route planners) it's not KITT unless you also fit a pilot.

All vehicles have a Pilot system. The pilot in driveable vehicles interacts with the Grid Guide to manage your destination, traffic density, most optimal route, etc... advanced GPS systems in cars today even have such pilot features already. It's not an AI, though it is a computer system. It requires user input in order to function, and can receive wireless commands.. The major difference is that you cannot Rig a driven vehicle via full VR unless it has the Rigger Interface module.

As for managing a smartlink without an AR interface... The Smartlink system does come with some minor preset functions. Though without an AR interface, it will be difficult to manage commands without having it programmed to accept various eye signals... AR interfaces are simple enough to purchase, don't eat up essence, even a simple sub-vocal microphone (something you barely notice and is hard to remove) would work for you...

Posted by: Jaguar Wong Jun 20 2006, 03:32 PM

Just a thought. If I had a motorcycle with the Rigger control mod, what would happen if I was riding it normally, then "jumped into" the motorcycle. Would my meat body just go limp and fall off, or would I retain enough control to hang on while pulling some serious maneuvers?

Another thing, what happens when a hacker goes full VR? Does their body collapse? Do they always sit down first (or go prone) to avoid unnecessary equipment scuffing (aw man, I scratched my commlink screen again) and concussions? These are just little things I'm trying to figure out so I can really wrap my mind around the whole AR/VR concept (that way I'll be able to explain it to the players).

Posted by: Shadowmeet Jun 20 2006, 03:38 PM

QUOTE (Jaguar Wong @ Jun 20 2006, 09:32 AM)

For a hacker going into VR, yes, the body loses function. So it is a sit down/go prone thing to me. Maybe even crouch against a wall.

For a rigger, I always imagine that the control rig gives the rigger enough functionality to hang on to the bike, or such. Of course, they may not have a control rig, and I'd still not want to mess with the flow of the game by saying the rigger falls off. So, I have no clue, really.

Posted by: Jaguar Wong Jun 20 2006, 03:48 PM

LOL, just to keep the style of gameplay my players are used to, I'll just go with your idea. Hackers prepare, but riggers can stay on the bike. That way we can concetrate on other things like surviving in the middle of a firefight while doing things like hacking and rigging and not make the game too complicated for an evening of fun.