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Posted by: Dudukain Jun 19 2006, 06:55 PM

Though it's not covered in the books, I'm sure you've had situations where you gave PCs some notoreity anyway.

Like, here's some I would give notoreity for even though they haven't come up:

1. Threating Johnson: 2 notoreity
2. Assaulting Johnson (no damage): 3 notorety
3. Injuring Johnson: 4 notoreity
4. Killing Johnson: 6 notoreity (assuming someone finds out...)
5. Betraying team members: 3 notoreity


Note that I probably wouldn't give you much notoreity if you killed Johnson after he betrayed you or because you had a lot of evidence he was going to.


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Posted by: ornot Jun 19 2006, 07:23 PM

I'd say your notoriety penalties are a little too high. Noteriety is just when word gets around that the individual or group is a problem to work with. I don't really see Johnsons maintaining a little database with notoriety scores for different shadowrunners. "Oh, he tried to stab Mr Johnson, that gives him a Notoriety of 4."

Sure, if they violently killed a Johnson just because they could, they'd earn notoriety, but Johnsons don't rely on their status as Mr Johnson to preotect them, they rely on a number of armed and cybered bodyguards and the fact that they are the ones with the yen and you don't bite the hand that feeds. I envisage the streets as a mean place where people who get geeked for not taking enough precautions are mostly ignored.

I'd issue a point of notoriety if an individual messed up a run, or pissed of a Johnson enough for it to inconvenience the rest of the team or indulged in gratuitous acts of violence. I'd only hand out multiple points for grievious examples of the above.

Posted by: Dudukain Jun 19 2006, 11:34 PM

Lemme correct this:

If any street types find out about it, their notoreity will probably go up. For example:

The setting: Crowded coffee house, the Johnson is relying on the noise level to keep their conversation secret. This is in the center of a sprawl area.

Johnson: So you'll take this contract?
Shadowrunner: Make it 500 more and you have yourself a deal
Johnson: Sorry, no can do.
Shadowrunner: You wouldn't like me when I'm angry *Hurls Johnson through window)

Anyway, the point is, if someone actually found out about this, of course their notoreity is going to go up.

Anyway, this was meant more as a discussion of the things your players have done that just were so obviously evil/mean spirited that you just HAD to give them notoreity points. Hopefully they are ridiculous, funny, or both!

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jun 19 2006, 11:38 PM

Posted by: Xane Jun 19 2006, 11:42 PM

The way I see it, Notoriety is a pretty bad thing. I don't give more than one point per incident. Granted my players are crazy and they've each got about 4 notoriety now, but you have to keep in mind in certain situations it acts as a dice pool modifier So 6 points in a single incident is a huge amount *shrugs* Well it is the way I play, at least.

Posted by: Dudukain Jun 20 2006, 12:22 AM

One point per incident?

Okay, suppose the player opens fire on a crowded shopping mall with a panther XXL. And he's a postal worker. How much notoreity does he gain?

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jun 20 2006, 12:44 AM

Posted by: Voran Jun 20 2006, 01:48 AM

Whacking a team of newbie runners. One of my chars got this He was a high karma char that had been semi-retired and had decided to go back to street level stuff to get re-acquainted with life on the streets. Bodyguarding a friend during a meet, which was of course, hit upon by a team of runners seeking to steal the lewt. Being rather new, they were presented as not showing the best tactics, so with the participation of my char, the newbie team got wiped out. He treated the runners like any real threat, even blowing away the ones that were out of the fight and injured.

Course, turns out they were considered a group of 'nice kids' as newbie runner groups go. That was only worth 1 point though. Since on the other hand, it was 'alls fair in love and war' kinda stuff.

Posted by: Xane Jun 20 2006, 10:59 PM

Posted by: X-Kalibur Jun 20 2006, 11:23 PM

Why is it unlikely or should it be disallowed if they are able to acquire it? Just remember that turnabout is fair play, forces will usually respond in kind to problems. If the runners are using SMGs and pistols, resistance will probably be about the same (unless it is the military or a gang). They want to use the Panther, let them, they will love it right up until the rocket launcher fires at them...

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 20 2006, 11:26 PM

Don't say that too loud. Some folks think that using the same rules for NPCs and PCs is powergaming and bad GMing.

Posted by: Teulisch Jun 21 2006, 12:18 AM

ok, there are 3 different levels of consequence.

first, theres men with guns. they may be gangers, they may be cops. dont matter. they shoot back.
second, you have your reputation. what people say about you behind your back.
third, there treachery. people who dont like you and want very bad things to happen to you.

as for the OP- those are WAY too high lets consider why its broken- what if the johnson doublecrosses, and trie to kill you first? do you still hand out noteriety for self defense? second- who knows YOU did it? and lets recall public awareness- which is a BAD thing to get at 3+.

If i was in a game, and got 6 noteriety for one thing? id smack the GM, quit his game, and leave.

Posted by: Toptomcat Jun 21 2006, 01:14 AM

Things Noteriety has been awarded for in my campaign in the recent past:
Public sexual exhibitionism.
Flagrant prisinor abuse. (Think Lynndie England-type photos here.)
Use of mustard gas grenades.

Posted by: Dudukain Jun 21 2006, 05:05 PM

Posted by: Dewar Jun 21 2006, 06:06 PM

Posted by: Toptomcat Jun 21 2006, 06:26 PM

It wasn't just one character! They were three different ones. I agree, any one character who got Notoreity for all three things would be one sick puppy.

Posted by: Ankle Biter Jun 21 2006, 07:06 PM

The thing I don't like about notoriety is that somehow fragging up runs makes you scaryer. (Bonus to intimidation)

Notoriety for shooting up shoping malls and eating live puppies should be measured on a different scale to notoritety for doing a run against the wrong building or quitting a run because you heard a helicopter arriving and didn't realise it was going somewhere else. (Possible with glitches and a GM with a sence of humour)

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 21 2006, 07:10 PM

Yeah, tying notoriety to intimidation doesn't really work well given how many different things can give you notoriety that aren't scary. "Help! Joe Shadowrunner is threatening me and he's incompetent in fixing cars!"

Edit: although I suppose that might work if his threat was "tell me what I want to know or I'll fix your car."

Posted by: Shadowmeet Jun 21 2006, 07:11 PM

Posted by: stevebugge Jun 21 2006, 07:13 PM

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 21 2006, 07:16 PM

A couple things. Brutality, sadism, and destructiveness could be lumped together, as could dishonest, disloyal, and perhaps cowardly. Also, IMO notoriety should be tracked by the GM, not on the character sheet, no matter what version you use. In my experience the fewer numbers a players can tie to the world the easier it is to view that world as real.

Posted by: Nim Jun 21 2006, 07:19 PM

Yeah. I think that were I running a game, I'd keep private reputation notes for each PC.
Samurai Bob gets the job done, but there're always a lot of bodies on the ground in the end and he's hard to work with. Call him Bloodthirsty (4), Reliable(2) and Total Jerk (3), and apply those as either bonuses or penalties whenever appropriate. Make up new descriptors whenever it becomes appropriate

Posted by: stevebugge Jun 21 2006, 07:23 PM

I agree that there are some that can be grouped, the point I was trying to get accross is that it is very easy to start sub-dividing stats and ratings, and once you start it it's only a matter of time before your group houserules itself in to a whole new game system of unrelenting complexity.

Summarize: slippery slope argument for houseruling stats is a bad idea.

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 21 2006, 07:24 PM

Houseruling stats is bad and/or slippery slope arguments are bad?

Posted by: Tetsuyama Jun 21 2006, 07:29 PM

Posted by: stevebugge Jun 21 2006, 09:24 PM

Posted by: Ankle Biter Jun 28 2006, 03:22 AM

Actually I was thinking that Notoriety as a stat at all makes little sense, considering the wide variety of things one can be notorious for. As however the point of Notoriety is not as a measure in itself, but as a measure on how it affect how people interact with you, a simpler measure is to asign rep based bonuses/penalties to the social skills...

Quit a run? There goes your negotiation skill.
Run screaming from an angry devil rat? Try intimidating that ork now, chummer.

Etc. etc.

The other thing one can try is having 2 omnidirectional stats (Can have negative and positive values)

One for intimidation (Upped by maimery, winning fistfights with dragons, shiving people over a spilled beer, lowered by chickening out of hot runs, cowardice under fire, backing down in conflict situations)

One for the other social skills (Upped by finess in runs, always completing them, being a good laugh, being trustworthy, lowered by being a jackass, being overly greedy, messing up runs, constant lying)