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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ What AR contacts might look like.

Posted by: jklst14 Jun 28 2006, 02:34 AM

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.07/images/found.jpg

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 28 2006, 03:06 AM

Where're the crosshairs?

Posted by: Dranem Jun 28 2006, 03:17 AM

These are AR contacts, Smartlink costs extra.

Posted by: Jaid Jun 28 2006, 04:10 AM

meh. if it can't help you shoot people, what's the point?

Posted by: GB1 Jun 28 2006, 04:44 AM

cool stuff

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 28 2006, 05:37 AM

highly interesting

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Jun 28 2006, 01:34 PM

There would have to be an easy way of turning it off if you needed to though. I can see someone hacking into your commlink and displaying a black screen on you contact.

BANG! you blind.

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 28 2006, 06:35 PM

I've got a group of runners, 4/6 of them are Awakened. They think contacts are the shit... hoo boy, vision mods without Essence loss!

Next time corpsec hits them, I'm thinking about doing just that as an opener

Posted by: Nim Jun 28 2006, 06:41 PM

See, UNLIKE 'hey, stop hitting yourself', blacking out AR contacts (or goggles, or whatever) is a perfectly reasonable cyberwarfare attack. It'd even be reasonable against cybereyes, assuming the eyes had an imagelink and were subscribed to the commlink.

You could have a lot of fun playing with their audio, too.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 28 2006, 08:17 PM

all cybereyes come with a imagelink as default and can be subscribed to a comlink, so...

Posted by: Nim Jun 28 2006, 08:35 PM

*nod* Right. The eyes CAN be subscribed to your PAN...but there i s (or at least, would be in a game I ran) the option of turning off the receiver, just like I assume AR goggles have a push-button control to turn THEM off. Contacts, though, not so much...you'd need to remove them. If the evil security hacker blacks out your goggles, it forces you to spend an action turning them off (and costs you whatever vision mods the goggles were granting). If he blacks out your contacts, you're screwed. You need to take them out, which probably means you need to take off your gloves first, as well as your helmet, and then you have to stand really still while you mess with your eyes. It's all bad.

I assume that all cyberware that has wireless capability also includes a way to 'go deaf' and deactivate that capability...and that turning the wireless on and off is done via nervous-system control, not via your commlink. Any other design would be...extremely foolish. Having your wireless devices hacked isn't something that only happens to runners and secuity guards. Joe Average has to worry about everything from wireless worms designed to infect commlinks and then fill your AR vision with ancient flat-vid images ('All your eyes are belong to us? What does THAT mean?') to that punk technomancer pre-teen in the apartment next door who's been messing with him ever since Joe complained about him running in the hall.

If something like that happens, you need a fast way of isolating your 'ware from whatever is messing with it.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 28 2006, 09:00 PM

SR4 specificaly talk about all devices having the posibility to turn of the wireless system (p304)...

Posted by: Dr. Dodge Jun 28 2006, 09:27 PM

QUOTE (Shrike30)

just adepts right no mages

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 28 2006, 10:36 PM

Two adepts (one face twink, one monowhip twink), one Spellcasting-only mage, and one shaman who goes spirits of doom with spellcasting as a backup.

Posted by: Dr. Dodge Jun 28 2006, 11:05 PM

QUOTE (Shrike30)

Two adepts (one face twink, one monowhip twink), one Spellcasting-only mage, and one shaman who goes spirits of doom with spellcasting as a backup.

mages shouldn't be able to take advantage of any vision enhancements in contacts (as they are electronic) for spellcasting. I guess i'm noting this ASSUMING they are (obviously summoning doesnt matter).

"A spellcaster can target anyone or anything she can see directly with her natural vision. Physical cyber- or bio-enhancements paid for with Essence can be used to spot targets, but any technological visual aids that substitute themselves for the character’s own visual senses—cameras, electronic binoculars, Matrix feeds, etc.—cannot be used"

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 28 2006, 11:11 PM

They're aware of this. Happily, I can use that to make life hard (or force them onto the Astral).

Posted by: BlueRondo Jun 28 2006, 11:51 PM

QUOTE

There would have to be an easy way of turning it off if you needed to though. I can see someone hacking into your commlink and displaying a black screen on you contact.

Would a skinlink help protect your contacts from wireless hackers?

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 29 2006, 12:00 AM

Not if they hacked your commlink to get to your contacts.

The "easy off" for contacts involves taking them out. If you care about your (several thousand nuyen) contacts, that's not something you want to do quickly.

Posted by: Shadowmeet Jun 29 2006, 12:05 AM

QUOTE (Shrike30)

That's why we need to go "Mr. Peanut."
Of course, there is always the issue of different eyes seeing different things.
But it is still fun.

If you have a Face who has an old world flair, I'd get him one.

Posted by: Gustave Jun 29 2006, 12:06 AM

They don't think you can black out AR contacts. It just isn't a feature that makes sense to put in. What possible use could there be for making oneself blind? Especially with the biological function to do so oneself. Spamming up the AR sure(there are rules for it also), but completely blacked out doesn't make sense. Everything in AR is most likely transparent so worst case scenario you don't walk over a cliff while watching full "screen" movies(so blacking out the AR display would only grey everything out). Now a really neat trick to hacking vision is to switch each other's feeds so Runner A sees through Runner B's eyes, etc.

Posted by: Lagomorph Jun 29 2006, 01:21 AM

Gustave, they also mention that there is software to make AR replace the weather, which implies that they can fully replace what the sky looks like. If that were hacked, they could make every thing look like black moonless sky..

Or they can probably adjust the transparency, so if you make the spam totally opaque, they'd still be stuck with out vision.

Posted by: Dr. Dodge Jun 29 2006, 01:33 AM

QUOTE (Shrike30)

They're aware of this. Happily, I can use that to make life hard (or force them onto the Astral).

hey you know, i tried ;)

Posted by: Xenith Jun 29 2006, 02:14 AM

One runner of mine got two commlinks, one as his public comm thats a high grade standard out of the book and the other as a wireless disabled skinlink PAN server that is the only link to his public comm. He has alot of skinlinked items... from contacts to trodes... to a glowing and responsive nanotat keyboard on his arm.

Going with the whole strange flavor of the skinlink, he decided that his character has removed almost all his body hair (with either male nair or shaving... I don't know which I find more disturbing), with a close crew cut on top. I'm not entirely sure if a skinlink would actually do the whole static charge on the hairs.. but..

Then again... he's also a sniper adept with Post Traumatic Stress disorder that manifests as "flashbacks". (talk about psychological AR). Scary.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Jun 29 2006, 03:12 AM

QUOTE (Lagomorph)

That I don't understand. AR can look super realistic but VR can't? Just see pg. 229 in the "How 'real' is VR?" paragraph. How is it that AR can produce more realistic effects?

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 29 2006, 06:21 AM

i smell some cut and paste goofups...

Posted by: Gustave Jun 29 2006, 08:48 AM

QUOTE (Lagomorph)

The software you are talking about is ARE, not AR. ARE uses only the sim module to alter the character's perception. It doesn't overlay weather on their cyberglasses(or whatever they use), it changes their perceptions to make them think the weather changed. Just like you only need the sim module instead of cybereyes, cyberears, cybernose, cybertongue and force feedback clothes to experience VR, you only need the sim module for ARE.

Which means, if you have those ARE programs, they can be hacked to make it rain all of a sudden, or to make your virtual pet attack you, or whatever. But if you can access their sim module you might as well blast them with a sensory overload.

Posted by: TBRMInsanity Jun 29 2006, 01:48 PM

I agree, cut and paste errors, but I also think that VR would be less realistic as they can do almost anything in VR (ie Rogger Rabit with a minigun as a comic book store IC). Realism takes a definite back seat in the VR world, but I think it can do all the things AR can and more (because it is in your mind).

Posted by: Jaid Jun 29 2006, 05:28 PM

QUOTE (hobgoblin)

i smell some cut and paste goofups...

i dunno... they'd have to have C/P'd a lot, since it takes about UV hosts as well i think.

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 29 2006, 06:49 PM

Of course contacts are capable of going completely black. I give you two words: Flare Compensation.

You detonate a flashbang in front of me. It's a few million candlepower, kind of like staring into the sun from the surface of Mercury. It's going to leave a huge blacked out spot in the center of my vision and the 190-decibel bang and percussion from the detonation on top of that is going to slap me silly.

Except... I've got my contacts in, and the flare compensation package, seeing that much raw light coming in, blacks them out entirely for the few milliseconds that the flashbang's explosive is burning in midair. I still catch some of the abuse from the flashbang (because the system has to react to it), but I'm protected from enough of it to only suffer half of the vision modifiers.

This means, however, that my contacts have the ability to go black. The intended use of this ability is in millisecond amounts, to protect the wearer from at least some of the effects of a blinding flash. Hack the contacts and leave it turned on permanently, though, and you've got a totally different use for these things.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jun 29 2006, 09:58 PM

QUOTE (Nim)

If he blacks out your contacts, you're screwed. You need to take them out, which probably means you need to take off your gloves first, as well as your helmet, and then you have to stand really still while you mess with your eyes. It's all bad.

hmm, i did some reading in the book. and it looks like many of the visual enhancements can be buildt into a helmets visor.

so if your wearing combat armor, why use contacts?

however, you may run into a issue if your visor goes black and your in a area with knockout gas or similar. cant realy take of your helmet or similar

still, maybe there is a reset/shutdown button within easy reach.

i think contacts are more for a face or others that want to be connected, but not look the part

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jun 30 2006, 01:58 PM

QUOTE (Gustave)

They don't think you can black out AR contacts. It just isn't a feature that makes sense to put in. What possible use could there be for making oneself blind?

Well, if they have flare compensation, certainly.
I'm sure the AR display has an opacity setting. Sometimes you want to be aware of what's in front of you, and sometimes (like maybe sitting on a plane) you just want to watch "full-screen" video and you don't need to see in front of you. You're just setting the opacity to maximum and playing full-screen pr0n videos on their eyes. In combat.

Posted by: kigmatzomat Jun 30 2006, 03:23 PM

QUOTE (hobgoblin)

[QUOTE=Nim,Jun 28 2006, 10:35 PM] If he blacks out your contacts, you're screwed. You need to take them out, which probably means you need to take off your gloves first, as well hmm, i did some reading in the book. and it looks like many of the visual enhancements can be buildt into a helmets visor.

so if your wearing combat armor, why use contacts?

Three words: Capacity, redundancy, convenience.

You can only cram so many functions into a standard device.

You can keep your contacts and your helmet on different Comm PANs so if one gets hacked you can chuck your helmet and still have smartlink, flare comp, and low-light.

It's awkward to eat a sandwich at night under EMCON with the helmet visor down.

Posted by: Shrike30 Jun 30 2006, 05:43 PM

EMCON?

I'm all for having functionality built into helmets, but there's something to be said for having goggles that clip ONTO your helmet, and thus are removable/swappable while still being worn essentially as a helmet. Just a little more bulk involved.

Posted by: wind_in_the_stones Jul 3 2006, 04:30 AM

QUOTE (Dr. Dodge)

"A spellcaster can target anyone or anything she can see directly with her natural vision. Physical cyber- or bio-enhancements paid for with Essence can be used to spot targets, but any technological visual aids that substitute themselves for the character’s own visual senses—cameras, electronic binoculars, Matrix feeds, etc.—cannot be used"

AR is not necessarily substituting an improved vision for your own. I would guess that it could if you let it, but generally, people have it set on transparent, with AR enhancements and additions. Like when you're walking around the mall looking in windows, and a big flashing arrow pops up and points to a store. Or mapping software. Or the crosshairs that appear where your gun is pointed. A hacker could easily override your transparency mode, and make them more opaque, especially if he feeds a bright display (as opposed to black screen).

As for spellcasting, you could set your lowlight mods to overlay your natural vision. Then your mage could use the lowlight to find a victim, and his natural vision to target that victim. (You could also house-rule the effectiveness of an overlaid display.)

Posted by: Shrike30 Jul 3 2006, 05:41 PM

They're more than welcome to use vision mods in the contacts or whatever on things like Perception tests, they're simply not allowed to use them for casting tests. This is mostly important for the vision modifiers applying to combat spells.