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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Coping with the Krieger Strain

Posted by: kryton Jun 28 2006, 07:14 PM

I've got some players who have been doing some work for Tamenous. My campaign takes place in 2065 after the Crash in Boston. Basically Right after the nuke goes off. (When the players saw the blimp acting funny they hit the floor.)
In trying to survive after the big one hit Boston, they did a favor for a local underground king pin as mentioned in Target UCAS. In doing that job they were given some injectable "meds" tainted with the "Krieger Strain" slowly turning them into ghouls. The campaign has been enjoyable as they have noticed slow and gradual "changes". One player had a fake ID and went to Mass Generals Clinic to get tested, which came back positive. (They immediately tried to trace the call and the players location when calling him back with the results.)

So I'm deciding what they can do as they don't want to be Ghouls. There isn't an "official cure" for becoming a ghoul but there might be antiviral drugs that "slow the progression" similar to AZT and Aids in the middle to late 1980's.
I figure two things:

A. The drugs are very expensive and they make a good leash for they're masters to control them with. (Having them might be illegal as being a Ghoul is illegal, probably the drugs are just hard to get hold of and are thus difficult to get.)

B. Maybe there's some sort of artifact that might have the power to heal. I'm thinking a Cure Disease spell just won't cut it as this is a retro-viral infection and not a straight pathogen. That could make for a fun side plot in my "campaign".

C. A bullet to the brain will always cure the disease, but it does have a nasty "side effect" that's a bit extreme. (The players who are not infected are thinking about offing them and trying to turn the corpses in for a reward.)

I'm just curious to know what folks think about this? How would you handle this type of "change" that the Players are going through?

Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 28 2006, 08:28 PM

According to Shadowrun Companion, Krieger strain is treatable if it is discovered within the first month. The character doesn't turn into a ghoul but may be a carrier for the rest of his life.

I was actually writing story involving a prostitute who was diagnosed with Krieger Strain very late with in first month. As I'm writing it the main treatment consists of antiretrovirals and chemotherapy/radiation to attack cells that have already been transformed. If there are no complications it would be an outpatient procedure. However, if treatment begins late many cells could have already been transformed. Surgery may be required to remove and replace tainted organs. The immune system may even attack these cancerous cells. The patient's immune system tear giant holes in the digestive tract is consdered a good sign by doctors since it shouls that the immune system is naturally fighting the changes. However, it also causes bloody vomit, bloody stool, and ultimatly requres major surgery to avoid death from internal bleeding and sepsis.

Ghoul transformation taks place over a three month period. If the character resists the transformation then, by canon, that character doesn't have to worry about it again. However, that character will be a carrier at GM discression.

My preferance is that an asymptomatic carrier can never become a ghoul even if exposed to the disease again. This isn't strictly canon. Some can interperate the rules are requiring a body check for every exposure. Since making asymptomatic carriers immune to further infection would logically allow the creation of a vaccine some people may find that this goes against flavor.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jun 28 2006, 08:43 PM

...this all sounds pretty icky

I hope it isn't transmittable from ghoul attacks

To be on the safe side, I think Violet is going to go get a checkup anyway (she also has a good fake ID).

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 28 2006, 08:46 PM

Yep, it's transmittable (the default strain, not sure about kryton's tainted meds version).

Posted by: kryton Jun 28 2006, 10:33 PM

Krieger Strain is the name for the Human Metahuman Vampiric virus. HMVV (msp?)
Basically it would be come from a bite or air transfer. The drugs just had "fluid" ie tainted with the virus. IE if you hang around a ghoul long enough you'll get infected. If they bite you there's a chance the virus will get transfered from the fluid contact.

Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 28 2006, 10:41 PM

You get infected by a bite or a scratch or through body fluids. It is not airborn. When exposed the character makes a body test vs the essence of the infected character. Since a ghoul's maximum essence is 5 there is a good chance than anyone with a body greater than 3 will not become a ghoul. However, the maximum essence of an asymptomatic carrier is 6. The virus actually propagates more easily amongst asymptomatic characters.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jun 28 2006, 10:49 PM

Seriously, guys. It's not aerosol transmission. That would be very bad and in a sense it would make ghouls less scary because with asymptomatic carriers you wouldn't ever need to see a ghoul to become infected yourself.

I wish that the BBB actually had % chances of infection. The idea that the merest scratch automatically infects you with some horrible disease of doom is such a Hollywood load of crap. Even if I jumped out of the bushes at night and stabbed you with a HIV infected needle you might simply never come down with HIV. (Which, by the way, is why I hate those RBSD bullshit artists who weave nightmare scenarios to scare their clients about being assaulted on t3h str33t by t3h l0wlif3s with t3h n33dles). If you do the research there are actually %es worked out calculating the odds of, say, a health care worker who is accidentally stuck by a HIV infected needles becoming diseased him or herself.

For t3h r34l m3dical sci3nce, we need more detailed epidemiology!

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 28 2006, 10:58 PM

You dance with joy at the thought of 80s ninjas in SR but instant infection is Hollywood crap?

Posted by: kryton Jun 28 2006, 11:01 PM

I'm using AIDS as my "template" in the real world.

There's always Ebola with is very viral, I'd just pick a disease with a similar virility. Also there's a chance too that with nano particles you could have a time activated nano-container with the virus in it. As time elapses the microsopic containers disolve releasing the virus into the blood stream. I wouldn't be surprised if such "containers" would be used as a method of time releasing medicine, not sure though how they'd create the containers? Maybe a certain reaction takes place in the fluid, then after it's mostly complete you push the fluid through a reverse osmosis barrier that's big enough to stop the molecules from passing through leaving only the containers. That way you get a steady release of virus.

I think it just depends on the virilaty of the virus. Also Virus' mutate so you could have different strains that are more viral than others?

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jun 28 2006, 11:02 PM

QUOTE (James McMurray)

You dance with joy at the thought of 80s ninjas in SR but instant infection is Hollywood crap?

Well, ninjas are very 80s, whereas instant infection paranoia is more of a 90s thing. That was when we had the big ebola scare and those lame-o movies that were all about, "OMIGOD I GOT A NEEDLE STICK IN THE OPERATING THEATRE THAT MEANS I'M DEAD".

I'm trying to thrust SR hard back into the 80s. Yeah, that's it.

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jun 28 2006, 11:08 PM

QUOTE (kryton)

I think you mean "virulent" rather than "viral". Since Ebola was caused by a virus, yes, it was "viral". However, it's not more "viral" than the common cold.

So you're asking if you couldn't use nanotech to release something into your body that could counter a virus? Well, as long as we're talking about theoretical nanotech that can do all sorts of things that are unthinkable today, I don't see why you couldn't have some nano device that detects the presence of certain viruses and then deploys nanobots to go and chop up said viruses.

If you're asking about how nasty a virus is an important thing to remember is that a virus that kills people really quickly isn't going to last very long itself. If everyone in a given area quickly dies of a virus the virus itself will havenowhere to go (no new hosts) and will die itself. The viruses that propagate the best are the ones that don't kill people very quickly. For example, AIDS is very widespread because it takes years and years for it to contribute (not even directly cause) someone's death. That's why it can spread so easily; it dosen't destroy its hosts quickly at all.

So, yes, in theory we could get some new mutant virus which is really horrible and makes you die in some nightmare way. In practice, that would be less scary than the likes of Ray Bradbury would like to make out because it would exist for a short period of time, kill a whole heap of people, and then die out. In practice, the most successful viruses will be the moderately nasty ones, not the ultra nasty ones.

Posted by: Lindt Jun 29 2006, 01:09 AM

Wouldent that be VITAS?

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jun 29 2006, 01:19 AM

QUOTE (hyzmarca)

...oh gods....

Wasn't asked to make any rolls after the fight but just in case, looks like a trip to University Hospital for the wunderkind hacker might be necessary.

[excuse any typos, I'm on the node that doesn't support PHP Spell]

Posted by: Lagomorph Jun 29 2006, 02:06 AM

This may not be exactly canon, but in our game, we ended up fighting some kind of Orc Ghoul, we were all infected, but because we weren't orc's, we just became carriers and infective to orcs who we fought.

If your infected characters are attached to their characters and you don't feel like killing them off, it could be found that its a MMHVV rather than a HMHVV, or what ever H is supposed to turn into an M.

[edit] canon not cannon, doh

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 29 2006, 02:11 AM

The only way to really cope with something that horrific is to go insane.

I'd suggest a gun firing darts filled with your blood. Go down in a blaze of glory from the top of a convenient tower. When the police snipers finally drop you, they find out that your biometer was tied into bombs at all the major antivirus storage and manufacturing facilities.

Posted by: Drraagh Jun 29 2006, 04:30 AM

I've actually played around with some of this stuff after reading the Psychotrope SR novel where they were talking about the HMHVV vaccine they were working on. I even had a run idea I was working on where one of the corporations had a vaccine they worked on and decided to put it into the water treatment at one of their offices (or maybe a city somewhere) but what they didn't know, at least as the official line, is that the drug can cause mutations in a small percentage of people.

I was looking at those sort of monster movies like zombies or the RE games or such, where they have an enclosed area, perhaps even chances for them being affected by the drugs, but there was another lab who was still working on the formula to try and get it into a working formula to cure it. That way, if the PCs survived, they could be treated. I just never really got too much into it because that sort of horror run didn't fit the theme we were playing.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jun 29 2006, 05:32 AM

QUOTE (James McMurray)

...maybe just walking into the path of a NordKapp Bergen is the best answer.

Hope the rest of the team can get along without a hacker.

Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 29 2006, 06:25 AM

Its completely treatable within the first moth. The SRComp says so explicitly. I'm prety sure that any street doc can supply you with the basic medications. More other therapies may be more expensive but the SRComp goes out of its way to make it impossible for any character to become a ghoul unless that character wants to become a ghoul (or is absurdly careless).

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jun 29 2006, 06:41 AM

[edited & spell checked]

...unfortunately in the timeline it has been more than two months so she is basically a goner (Particularly since in this campaign, I & others have been placed in the proverbial no-win scenario before. For example, just after I retired Leela, I learned there were plans to turn her into a Vampire).

Even if "cured" she would be a carrier and be forced to become a loner for the rest of her life which takes her in the opposite direction of her character development.

Hey, thanks for the support.

Posted by: hyzmarca Jun 29 2006, 07:08 AM

There is a willpower roll to make, you know. If you get enough successes the character will actually gain a point of willpower. So long as no mental stat drops below 1 a ghoul character is still perfectly playable. With a little 'ware (replacement eyes, clean metabolism, and a little bit of cosmetic surgery) most sentient ghouls can pass for an uninfected member of the same metatype.

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jun 29 2006, 07:23 AM

QUOTE (hyzmarca)

...never was asked to make it.

Besides, not quite my cup of tea playing the walking dead & all so to say, but again thanks for the support.

Anyway, the rest of the team would still be very wary of her & it totally spoils a potential relationship she has with another character which was to be a major part of her ongoing character development

"Sometimes you just have to let go"

The expatriate elf Tir Mage, Shana, to 13 year old Kelly Rourke (Kyoto Kid)

From Kyoto Kid - The Making of a Runner

Posted by: Wounded Ronin Jun 29 2006, 09:41 PM

QUOTE (hyzmarca)

(or is absurdly careless).

Now you have caught t3h r34l publ1c h34lth.

KK: If it were me, I'd just bitch and moan about the cannon in a passive aggressive way. Like, I wouldn't go to the GM and say, "You dummy, I'm supposed to get the WIL check." Instead, I'd be like, "OK, I'm going to make the WIL check as stipulated on page X of the SrComp, and furthermore my character acting out of a cautious nature will go and purchase the anti-ghoul medications which are explicitly stated as being common place on page Y." After you say that in front of everyone if the GM still wants to screw you he or she will have to fly in the face of that cannon reference.

As a GM, it annoys me if people bitch and moan just because things don't go their way. However, if they cann0wn me, I usually respect the cannon rules unless I explicitly stated beforehand that we would be houseruling a specific area.

Posted by: James McMurray Jun 29 2006, 11:10 PM

If you were never asked to make any rolls and it's been 2 months in game and no sign of anything happening I'd guess the GM either didn't nkow it was transmittable or didn't want to deal with the hassle and you're probably safe.

Posted by: Lagomorph Jun 30 2006, 05:54 PM

Some times I hope my characters die off so that I can work on inventing the next one. That may not apply here, but it's something I look forward to when one of my characters die.

Posted by: G-14 Jun 30 2006, 06:28 PM

Well, the Krieger strain has been a royal pain in the a** for several persons in my Shadowrun-game. The best way to deal with it is to get monthly checkups, which is what my mage is going through every month. Just around the Campus hospital to get stabbed with a needle, and i'm clear. My teammates used to call it noia, but when the Kreiger strain turned our Elven Street Sam, they weren't laughing.

Some of the NPC's has gotten infected too, both by regular viruses like VITAS and AIDS. But sometimes, it has given us poetic justice. The big n' bad deltaware loaded almost-a-cyberzombie Merc' got infected with the Krieger Strain. We never heard from him again.

Posted by: kryton Jun 30 2006, 09:10 PM

Isn't knowing the rules a violation? IE won't the Computer be angry as you're only a clearance Red level citizen and thus not cleared for information pertaining to "The Rules".....? The Computer is you're friend and does know what's best for you.....Oh Wait wrong game.......or is it?.......Is Deus really dead?

Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jun 30 2006, 09:13 PM

QUOTE (Lagomorph)

Some times I hope my characters die off so that I can work on inventing the next one. That may not apply here, but it's something I look forward to when one of my characters die.

...I'd rather have a character actually die (whether by mishap, or in the case of Violet, by her own hand) rather then sell their soul to some fraggin GD or IE.