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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Metahuman Anatomy and Physiology, the R version
Posted by: Kalvan Jul 17 2006, 02:15 PM
Disclaimer: This document contains speculative discussion of sexual and reproductive structure and physical function, though the line is drawn at actual sex acts. If reading this is against your state/county/city/province/country's laws or your own morals or religion, then by all means click back on your browser. There now, you've been told. As far as I can tell, not even the Shadowrun novels go into any detail into them, so I don't think I am violating canon. The rest of you can highlight below to read what I've written.
| QUOTE (Straight Razor Jun 30 2006 @ 10:04 PM) |
do meta-human males have a Baculum? |
[color=
That was the last question asked in the PG version of this thread.
This is something of a broad question. It is like asking "Do humans have blond hair or widow's peaks?"
Some Metahumans have Bacula, some don't.
Before I answer this question in full, I think I'll answer the question I'm sure most of you are already asking yourselves: What is a baculum?
It is a penis bone, found in most of Class mammalia, save Monotremes (Who completely lack all external genitalia) Delphinoid cetecians (this is the reason Orcas {Killer Whales}, Narwhals and Pilot Whales are classified with dolphins while Xiphid Whales and Pigmy Sperm Whales are classified with the rest of the toothed whales, because of the absence of the Baculum in the former and its presence in the latter) ungulates (hooved mammals), Hyenas, Cats, and among Primates Stump Tailed Macaques, Humans, and certain Metahumans.
As for which ones, read on:
Dwarves:
"It's not the cock and balls that make the man, but the tits and womb that make the woman"
-Preliminary translation of a graffito found scrawled in a recently discovered underground cave city complex in the Ural Mountains of Russia, one featuring lots of dwarven skeletal remains.
Dwarven sexual anatomy is perhaps the most unusual compared to the Human baseline.
It is rather difficult to tell the sexes apart at birth, as the infant female dwarven vulva consists of a clitoris very bit as large as a penis (Complete with a foreskin completely covering it at all angles and a urethral meatus), and a scrotum behind it indistinguishable form a male version (especially because the ovaries, like the male testes, usually have already descended to that area. In order to sex a dwarven baby, a more detailed checkup is needful. one can check behind the scrotal area for a small groove just past there (but rather further away from the anus), or one can palpatate the lower abdomen just below the navel, as the presence of the uterus is unmistakable. Said uterus is itself remarkable, as it possesses two cervical oses (a phenomenon common in marsupials, but found in other placentals only in the Xenartha (armadillos, anteaters, bullettes, and sloths) one from the vagina, and one from the-lets call it a phallus.
At puberty, it becomes much easier to tell Dwarves apart by sex: the breasts grow, to a rather obvious size (the typical Dwarf woman wears a C-Cup). That said, dwarven women also bear just as much facial and body hair as dwarven men (and there's no such thing as a naturally bare-chined adult dwarf: even among groups typically free of beards [such as American Indians or Pacific Islanders] both sexes still sport large beards) though it is usually rather finer and denser than male body and facial hair, and the phallus grows only to 4" in length and 1/2" in diameter on average at full erection.
The strangest thing about dwarven female anatomy and physiology is that the vaginal cervical os mucus plug actually thickens during the time of greatest fertility, and then thins in time for menstruation, suggesting that phallus (which does close off the urethra during arousal) is the normal recepticle for sperm. The vaginal canal slowly dilates during pregnancy, and to top it all off, both sexes have pelvises wide enough to accommodate childbirth, making it rather difficult to tell the sexes apart on skeletal differences alone (unless there is a developing fetal skeleton in the abdomen.
The Dwarven Male has only one more real difference compared the human baseline: a rather thick and long penis (7' in length and 2' in average diameter) with an unusually wide urethral meatus and process and a rather long foreskin that doesn't actually retract even at full erection. I think I can probably leave to the imagination the actual nature of the dwarven sexual-reproductive act.
Elves:
Elven sexual anatomy isn't quite as alien to the Human norm as Dwarven, but Elven physiology (particularly female) is in some ways even more so. Elven women never menstruate. I don't mean that there is a special sperethiel euphemism for the process reserved for Elven women; I mean that, aside from the tearing of the hymen, and spotting or hemhorraging due to injury or STD, the Elven female reproductive tract does not release blood. Instead, if an egg isn't fertilized at the appropriate time, the uterine lining is completely reabsorbed into the bloodstream. This means that a female Elf Poseur can easily be told by goring through her personal effects: tampons, menstrual pads, and Human formula PMS medications and birth control pills (Elven prescriptions lack the estrogen component, see below for the reason) are a dead giveaway.
But this is not the only difference between Human and Elven female physiology. Elven women can tell when they are at their most fertile by the fact that their clitoris, vulva, and g-spot swell to full engorgement for the duration in a physical arousal unmatatched by sexual desire or fantasy. Or, to put it more succinctly, they go into heat. Or, to put it more sensitively, they experience http://www.psas-support.com/main/, except that for them it isn't a syndrome or disorder, but the normal, healthy state of sexual function. This seems to be due to the relative amount of estrogen in their bloodstream, which is why Elven birth control pill prescriptions almost never have an estrogen component. This is also why elven women frequently carry around in their purses a sex toy or two, for "unexpected emergencies."
Elven men have somewhat less of a divergence from the Human baseline. statistically, they have somewhat longer but thinner penises (and larger glans penises) than Humans of the same ethno-racial background. However the main difference is the presence of a baculum. Unlike the bacula of apes (like the chimpanzee, where it is at most 1 centimeter long,) it is typically 3" (8.25 Centimeters) long by 1/5" (5 millimeters) thick, and starts at just behind the glans.
Finally, both sexes lack pubic hair, making an Elf Poseur with a large bush glaringly obvious.
Next Up: Orks and Trolls
Questions, Comments, Flames?
Posted by: Jrayjoker Jul 17 2006, 02:24 PM
That is just silly.
Posted by: SuperFly Jul 17 2006, 03:38 PM
Sources include anime, and...oh, anime.
Not really my cup of tea, and I seriously doubt dwarven females are running around sporting members.
'A' for effort, though.
Posted by: FanGirl Jul 17 2006, 03:48 PM
I don't think I wanna be a dwarf woman anymore.... 
However, dwarf women do appear to be clean-shaven, if only in the SR art I've seen, so I comfort myself with the notion that you may be incorrect. 
Posted by: Lindt Jul 17 2006, 04:27 PM
Im going to echo Fangirl about the hair thing. So far there isnt anything cannon, or art related to suggest they grown facial hair.
Posted by: eidolon Jul 17 2006, 04:33 PM
Seconding the silly.
Posted by: mfb Jul 17 2006, 05:13 PM
dickchick dwarves, and hot elven women in heat. great.
also, the references to pre-Awakening dwarves and elves are... weird.
Posted by: nezumi Jul 17 2006, 05:45 PM
So dwarves reproduce like hyenas and elven women are more likely to be lesbians just because once a month they have an itch they just DESPERATELY need scratched, by anyone and anything?
Posted by: Jrayjoker Jul 17 2006, 05:45 PM
Hmmm, I wonder what he's going to write about orcs and trolls?
3 Karma to the one who PMs me with the closest guess...
Posted by: Lindt Jul 17 2006, 06:06 PM
Well we all know that orcs multiply like rabbits...
Posted by: nezumi Jul 17 2006, 06:23 PM
I hope he works one of them so that if you rub their rumps vigorously, you get an automatic sexual response like you do with cats. I think it'd be funny to rub the rump of the troll sammy and watch her drop to her knees and put her butt in the air, ready for some play.
Posted by: knasser Jul 17 2006, 06:31 PM
Uh, sorry. I feel bad for you after writing all that out and I kind of hope that someone posts here in support of you soon. But that somebody isn't going to be me. To be honest, this is a little disturbing. Dwarven babies with giant clitorises?
I think you've brought too much stuff in from some fantasy genres to inform your dwarf physiology. I've never seen anything in Shadowrun to suggest that dwarf females have excess facial hair nor any good reason why they should. As to the pelvic similarities, etc. This would be very limiting in terms of the species success. Women have wider pelvises because they need them. Men don't so they have something better suited to running around and quick movement. Ditto for wasteful resources of genital doubling up.
As to elven women going into heat. I hate to tell you this but human women are basically in a permanent state of being "in heat." Given a suitable mate and normal health, a woman can become aroused at any time, whether fertile or not. Animals that go into heat simply are not interested the rest of the time, that is all. You should read a book called "Why is Sex Fun?" by Jared Diamond. It talks about why female primates (a) remain in a state of sexual receptivity even when infertile and (b) why unlike nearly all other animals, they conceal whether or not they are fertile from the male of the species. Even baboon's asses change colour, and the females of most mammal species at least have the decency to smell different. But human males are kept in a state of permanent (but usually deluded) optimism about the fertility of the women around them. Basically, it has to do with the gestation and raising time of young and the need to keep a mate loyal. Given that cannon suggests elven maturation is even longer than humans, it makes even less sense for them to have a "heat" phase.
Sorry about this.
-K.
p.s. I've declined to grey out my reply as sex and anatomy are perfectly normal parts of life. On the remote chance that some ten-year old actually is interested in this stuff rather than Yu-Gi-Oh or whatever it is this year, then they're quite welcome to read my thoughts. Though I think they're best off enjoying the last few years of thinking kissing is icky before puberty knocks them senseless for the next eight years.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 17 2006, 06:35 PM
| QUOTE (SuperFly) |
| Sources include anime, and...oh, anime. Not really my cup of tea, and I seriously doubt dwarven females are running around sporting members. 'A' for effort, though. |
Maybe there is such a thing as too much effort, however.
Posted by: nezumi Jul 17 2006, 06:57 PM
I found it quite fascinating and very, very original. I don't think I'd apply it in Shadowrun (I don't go into sex enough for it to matter), but I might apply it elsewhere. I think it's neat, certainly entertaining, and I WOULD like to see Orks and Trolls.
I also question about women not smelling different when they're fertile. It may not always be as obvious as tails in the air and red bottoms, but it can be fairly clear.
Posted by: SuperFly Jul 17 2006, 06:57 PM
| QUOTE (X-Kalibur) |
| Maybe there is such a thing as too much effort, however. |
tru.dat
Posted by: mfb Jul 17 2006, 07:15 PM
the detail is nice, but it's just too hentai. and i don't think all those lesbian elf PCs need any encouragement.
+1 karma to SuperFly for the computer geek pun.
Posted by: KarmaInferno Jul 17 2006, 07:21 PM
Great.
Why must people post stuff I cannot un-see?
I should have just never clicked on the thread.
Argh.
-karma
Posted by: Platinum Jul 17 2006, 07:30 PM
I can help Karma,
I prescribe 1 red hot poker to the frontal lobe. repeat until you "unsee".
Posted by: eidolon Jul 17 2006, 08:01 PM
| QUOTE (nezumi) |
| I found it quite fascinating and very, very original. <snip> |
Really? I don't find it terribly original in the slightest.
Hentai plus AD&D Book of Carnal Knowledge plus rudimentary anatomy and physiology. Whoop de doo.
Posted by: Gustave Jul 17 2006, 08:33 PM
| QUOTE (Kalvan) |
| The Dwarven Male has only one more real difference compared the human baseline: a rather thick and long penis (7' in length and 2' in average diameter) |
That's quite a difference!
Posted by: nezumi Jul 17 2006, 08:36 PM
Maybe I don't watch enough hentai to have seen it done elsewhere 
Posted by: Domino Jul 17 2006, 09:00 PM
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted by: hyzmarca Jul 17 2006, 09:59 PM
I prefer my Shadowrun Futanari to remain purely in the realm of bioware and cosmetic surgery. Surely, there is a place for such things but that place is the seediest of Bunraku parlors.
Posted by: X-Kalibur Jul 17 2006, 10:04 PM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| I prefer my Shadowrun Futanari to remain purely in the realm of bioware and cosmetic surgery. Surely, there is a place for such things but that place is the seediest of Bunraku parlors. |
And BTLs. Don't forget the BTLs.
Posted by: Kalvan Jul 18 2006, 12:29 AM
| QUOTE (knasser @ Jul 17 2006, 01:31 PM) |
| As to elven women going into heat. I hate to tell you this but human women are basically in a permanent state of being "in heat." Given a suitable mate and normal health, a woman can become aroused at any time, whether fertile or not. Animals that go into heat simply are not interested the rest of the time, that is all. You should read a book called "Why is Sex Fun?" by Jared Diamond. It talks about why female primates (a) remain in a state of sexual receptivity even when infertile and (b) why unlike nearly all other animals, they conceal whether or not they are fertile from the male of the species. |
Actually, that theory is already obsolete.
The real reason is that human gestation is so rushed and incomplete that the clitoris fails to develop completely compared with our colsest relatives the chimpanzees and bonobos. (The transition to walking on two legs and the resulting narrower pelvis is partially to blame) Elves, with their rather longer gestation, have a more "properly" developed sexual anatomy and physiology.
Physiologically speaking, Estrus results when a large dose or estrogen or testasterone (but not both, as each otherwise cancels the other out) circulates within the vulva, causing the vestibular bulbs to put pressure on the clitoral shaft and glans clitoris, stimulating the entire genital region to into intense physical arousal. However estrogen also tends to dampen the sex drive, at least in terms of looking for companionship in the opposite sex. A female mammal in estrus doesn't solicit sex because she is attracted to any particular male or otherwise wants pleasure, she's simply trying to scratch an itch. Human vestiblar bulbs are stuck too far away from the main clitoral shaft and glans due to incomplete embryonic development. Subsequent human behavior, and the increased amount of testosterone in human females, developed as a coping mechanism, so that our distant ancestors wouldn't go back into the woods for their women.
Jared Diamond, Desmond Morris, and others got it all wrong. Human women aren't always in heat; in fact they are never in heat. Instead, at that point in their cycle they are simply horny like men, if often to a somewhat lesser degree.
Posted by: Sahandrian Jul 18 2006, 04:23 AM
Yeah... that was kinda silly.
Especially the hair.
Personally... I just assume they're all pretty much like humans, aside from some size differences, slightly varied pregnancy times, and maybe some other minor differences (elves tending toward less body hair, dwarves more).
As to the futanari aspect mentioned earlier... It'd be entirely possible with bioware, or possibly a custom-designed spell for those who want to be all-natural. And really, why assume only the most twisted of perverts would go for it? I can imagine some bisexuals might want to really have it both ways (in fact, one of my players online, a bisexual girl, has said she'd have that done if it were possible).
For that matter, I'm sure someone has thought about doing it to a character with SURGE...
Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Jul 18 2006, 06:24 AM
While I don't buy into the dwarven heyenas, I'll certainly buy the thing about elf women being, to a woman, nymphos at random. 
Posted by: Tziluthi Jul 18 2006, 06:54 AM
| QUOTE |
| Persistant Sexual Arousal Syndrome |
WTF? And this is a bad thing?
But seriously. I've never really seen a reason to go any further into this topic than has already been discussed. But go ahead with the trolls and orks. I need a laugh. Maybe metavariants as well.
Kudos on the dick-girl overtones.
Posted by: MITJA3000+ Jul 18 2006, 09:53 AM
Don't be too harsh to the dude, he's just telling his theory, and, since there isn't any canon on it (though I remember reading something about meta-human anatomy in the finnish translation of 2nd edition BBB, which was silly), is just a suggestion on how things work between the sheets with metas. I'm not saying that the next time I play with my group I'm gonna give them a lecture about elven chicks on heat or qwarven genitals.
Please go on, with orks and trolls. It'll surely be intresting, if nothing else.
Posted by: Nidhogg Jul 18 2006, 09:56 AM
I think I've been scarred for life. Every time I close my eyes, images of dwarven dickgirls screwing elves in heat will invade my mind. If only I could get rid of the dwarf.
Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Jul 18 2006, 12:44 PM
I recomend an Ares Predator in 10mm Caseless. Perfect for disposing of all your dwarven woes, so you can get on to what's important in life - the elf.
Posted by: Kalvan Jul 19 2006, 11:57 PM
Orks:
Like Elf women, Ork women do not mensturate, a fact which makes female Ork Poseurs with tampons or menstural pads in their purses glaringly obvious.
As a matter of fact, Ork women do not even have a regular fertility cycle. Instead, they ovulate at orgasm. Well, that's something of a gross oversimplification. Unlike all other (meta)human overies, Ork overies don't start killing egg cells to pare down from the standard 20 million present at birth, to about 200,000. During arousal, their uterus (which is two horned, making it more like a monkey's than an other [meta]human's) engorges with blood, which causes the buildup of the uterine lining. Then, at every orgasm the sex act produces, the overies relase an egg (or sometimes two). This ovulation, however seems to be partially controled by the vomeronasal organ: Masturbating alone does not seem to cause ovulation, only sex with a live male partner. As a result, Ork birth control pills must use a special chemical process in order to supress the release or absorption of Folicle Stimulation Hormone.
Other differences form the human norm in Ork female sexual anatomy and physiology include a pattern of arousal closer to the male in other metatypes (unlike the female norm where the sex drive grows with each satisfactory encounter, and slowly wains if satisfactory sex isn't able to be found, An Ork female's sex drive is more or less constant, but tends to rise [sometimes markedly] in the absence of satisfactory encounters) and a rather larger and more prominent clitoris (but nothing like the dwarven condition)
The Ork male's sex organs show three differences from the Human norm:
1. Size: the average Ork member is about 1" longer and 1 centimeter wider in diameter compered to the Human norm within the same ethno-racial background. However the average Ork testicles are rather larger. The Human Norm is somewhat golf ball sized. The Ork norm is closer to the size of a navel orange. (Though this still makes them smaller than Chimpanzees and Bonobos)
2. The Glans Penis: It is lined with lots of triangular barbs, nuch like a cat's
3. It's condition at rest: In Ork males, the condition is at a state of constant semi-erection known as Penis Rectus (look it up on google)
Trolls:
The Troll penis is covered by a full sheath (like a dog) and is only fully reveald by either pushing back the sheath, or at full erection. Also, while larger than the penises of all other metatypes, it is not as large in purportion to Troll body size as a human one, and Troll testicle size is actually smaller than Ork (roughly lemon sized, or maybe large lime).
Strangely enough, other than overall size (and a somewhat larger clitoris in porportion to the Human norm), the average Troll female sexual-reproductive is little different from the average Human norm.
Posted by: eidolon Jul 20 2006, 07:50 AM
Well, kudos for having the balls to continue. I'd have crawled into a hole a died, methinks.
Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Jul 20 2006, 08:51 AM
>_<
Eidolon, that's... Not... So wrong... That's fucking wrong.
And now that the anatomy lesson is over, can we get to the part everyone's been waiting for; Kalvan's take on female elves and their sexual habits with other females/shemales/hermaphrodites.
Posted by: will_rj Jul 20 2006, 11:23 AM
silly
Posted by: WhiskeyMac Jul 20 2006, 11:45 AM
The female dwarves with facial hair is a sad pullover from D&D. Not a single female dwarf in a canon picture has ever had a beard. And large penis-like clitoris? Have female dwarves been injecting steroids into their asses like Chyna? I think that male dwarves hip structure would be slightly slimmer than females.
Wow, elven women go into heat now and don't menstruate. Great, just another reason why I fucking hate elves. They always get the best strengths but no weaknesses. How bout you make them smell funny or something. Oh wait, we need some fap material. Yeah bisexual elf women 
And why the hell do Trolls have dog-sheaths on their penises? And Orks have barbs like cats? Damn, I would hate to be the Lone Star cop that has to process a rape victim that was assaulted by Ork and Troll gangers.
Although never really brought up in my game I think that some of your "interpretations" are a little far fetched. Seems to copy-paste from D&D.
Posted by: FanGirl Jul 20 2006, 01:08 PM
| QUOTE |
| Then, at every orgasm the sex act produces, the overies relase an egg (or sometimes two). |
So, how do you explain the fact that ork babies "are most often born in litters of four, but some ork mothers have given birth to as many as eight young," as stated on p. 66 of the 4th edition BBB?
Also, what the hell is up with this?
| QUOTE |
| The Glans Penis: It is lined with lots of triangular barbs, nuch like a cat's |
What the fuck kind of evolutionary advantage does a barbed penis give? Wouldn't the poor ork female's vaginal wall be ripped to shreds by her partner's member? Wouldn't the risk of infection that these open wounds pose put both mothers and their unborn children in great danger? No wonder the ork life expectancy is so low!
Posted by: Kalvan Jul 20 2006, 01:13 PM
| QUOTE (FanGirl) | ||
So, how do you explain the fact that ork babies "are most often born in litters of four, but some ork mothers have given birth to as many as eight young," as stated on p. 66 of the 4th edition BBB? |
You've answered you're own question.
Posted by: FanGirl Jul 20 2006, 01:18 PM
Oh, multiple orgasms? That sounds fine, except I don't see how an ork woman is likely to achieve even a single orgasm when her vagina is getting torn to bits!
Posted by: Kalvan Jul 20 2006, 01:20 PM
| QUOTE (FanGirl) | ||
Also, what the hell is up with this?
What the fuck kind of evolutionary advantage does a barbed penis give? Wouldn't the poor ork female's vaginal wall be ripped to shreds by her partner's member? Wouldn't the risk of infection that these open wounds pose put both mothers and their unborn children in great danger? No wonder the ork life expectancy is so low! |
Except that said barbs aren't that sharp even in real life cats.
There is at least one account of women zoophiles who had absolutely no problems accomodating lions and/or tigers, (except for when the support was removed prematurely, but that's not relevant to this subject)
Posted by: Kalvan Jul 20 2006, 01:27 PM
| QUOTE (WhiskeyMac) |
| Wow, elven women go into heat now and don't menstruate. Great, just another reason why I fucking hate elves. They always get the best strengths but no weaknesses. How bout you make them smell funny or something. Oh wait, we need some fap material. Yeah bisexual elf women |
Except from thumbing through more than few personal accounts of Persistant Sexual Arousal Syndrome, I can tell you that the vast majority of its sufferers think it's no fun.
Given the choice between periods and no heat, or heat and no periods, I suspect a large majority of elven women will choose the former if they could.
Posted by: Dog Jul 20 2006, 01:57 PM
To quote William Shatner: "You... Have you ever kissed a girl?!"
Posted by: Kalvan Jul 20 2006, 02:00 PM
| QUOTE (Dog) |
| To quote William Shatner: "You... Have you ever kissed a girl?!" |
:sigh: Yes, I have.
Posted by: FanGirl Jul 20 2006, 02:55 PM
| QUOTE (Kalvan) |
| Except that said barbs aren't that sharp even in real life cats. |
Oh, I get it now. Phew!
When you mentioned the barbed penis, I imagined you meant that it was some kind of scary spiked club thing straight out of someone's BDSM fantasy. I had no idea that barbed penises actually existed in nature until just now. Not everyone is familiar with feline anatomy, you know.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Posted by: eidolon Jul 20 2006, 03:42 PM
| QUOTE (Dog) |
| To quote William Shatner: "You... Have you ever kissed a girl?!" |
Posted by: Jrayjoker Jul 20 2006, 05:59 PM
While I personally think this was a silly exercise, there is not any reason to think that Kalvan won't use it in his game, so I am not bashing the concept. OK, everyone clear?
Now, onto business...No one PMed me any predictions, so Kalvan gets the Karma for posting his Orcs and Trolls data.
There, business concluded! Admin, you may now lock this thread.
Posted by: mfb Jul 20 2006, 06:39 PM
the ork and troll ones are interesting. i'm still not terribly keen on the idea of shemale dwarves and horny elves. the dwarven anatomy presented would be more appropriate in Middle Earth, as the dwarven females there are, unlike in SR, presented as being pretty manly (beards, etcetera). the persistent sexual arousal of female elves is a no-go. plays way too much into adolescent fantasies--and, like i said, they don't need any encouragement.
Posted by: emo samurai Jul 20 2006, 07:08 PM
Dude, the Awakening must happen NOW, dammit.
Posted by: eidolon Jul 20 2006, 07:27 PM
| QUOTE (Jrayjoker) |
| there is not any reason to think that Kalvan won't use it in his game |
You have a point. I suppose some good has come out of this thread.
I now know to avoid any game this guy ever runs or plays in, for example.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jul 20 2006, 07:34 PM
Come on now, nobody's saying you have to use this stuff. Personally, I thought it was an interesting read and an interesting take on metahuman physiology. Am I going to use it? No, probably not. I thought the differences were a bit extreme and I'd like to keep things a bit more "neutral" in my game, but I still appreciate that he posted one possible take on the issue.
Alright, that's all I had to say. Back to the beared chicks with dicks jokes.
Posted by: Shrike30 Jul 20 2006, 08:53 PM
I still wanna know how the "Dwarf women have beards" thing made it into a SR talk.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jul 20 2006, 08:57 PM
What percentage of RL human women can grow substantial facial hair? I've seen some women that have beards. And I'm not talking about one or two stray whiskers on an old lady, nor am I talking about a full and bushy "bearded lady" style beard, either. Now I figure, for every lady sporting a beard that I actually see, there must be hundreds that shave/wax/electrolysize/laser remove. So how many women could grow significant facial hair, if they didn't remove it? Hmmmmm.
Posted by: sorcel Jul 21 2006, 12:05 AM
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| What percentage of RL human women can grow substantial facial hair? |
It's a question of genetics, largely determined by ethnicity. Some genetic backgrounds are biologically predisposed toward balances of hormones conducive to growth of body hair. At the same time, it's often hard to guess which ethnic backgrounds correlate with prolific hair growth because cultural pressures induce women to remove their body hair for cosmetic reasons. One can make one's own observations; I prefer to keep mine to myself, for fear that I might be incorrect.
-S
Posted by: Shrapnel Jul 21 2006, 12:39 AM
This whole thing sounds like a really bad "Shadowrun meets F.A.T.A.L." joke...
Posted by: Tanka Jul 21 2006, 01:45 AM
| QUOTE (Shrapnel) |
| This whole thing sounds like a really bad "Shadowrun meets F.A.T.A.L." joke... |
Ha!
Yeah. This is entirely too contrived.
Your game or whatever, but this is just silly.
Posted by: Samaels Ghost Jul 21 2006, 03:15 AM
This is hilarious! I can't imagine that this had any other intention other than laughs, though. It just as silly as vibrating cyber vaginas.
Posted by: Dog Jul 21 2006, 03:52 AM
shhh... you don't wanna start anything.
Posted by: Kyoto Kid Jul 21 2006, 04:05 AM
| QUOTE (Dog) |
| shhh... you don't wanna start anything. |
...I think it's to late.
Posted by: WhiskeyMac Jul 21 2006, 05:09 AM
The thing I don't understand is how the physiology is so different "down there" if all meta-races expressed from humans. Yeah in the 4th age they were their own races but most of the 2070 ones are children of expressed parents. 40 years is a fast time to suddenly evolve completely different genitalia.
Posted by: Ceres Jul 21 2006, 06:29 AM
Interesting. I'll say nothing more on it than that. And hey, I'm all for elven women not having menstrual cycles. Now if I could apply that to my own life...
As for "forty years to develop different genetalia", evolution and the like is hardly predictable. I don't study evolution or biology to that degree, but it's possible, to a degree, for things to at least begin to change like that. I don't know if it's possible that quickly, but recessive genetics, man... I'm not clear on SR's look at genetics, though. Ergo, not sure how they'd play in, but they might.
Dun quote me on any of that, though.
Posted by: torzzzzz Jul 21 2006, 08:53 AM
| QUOTE (knasser @ Jul 17 2006, 01:31 PM) |
| You should read a book called "Why is Sex Fun?" by Jared Diamond. It talks about why female primates (a) remain in a state of sexual receptivity even when infertile and (b) why unlike nearly all other animals, they conceal whether or not they are fertile from the male of the species. Even baboon's asses change colour, and the females of most mammal species at least have the decency to smell different. But human males are kept in a state of permanent (but usually deluded) optimism about the fertility of the women around them. |
I must agree with your sentiment, the concept of reproduction in primates, i am a firm believer in the sentiments of Jared Diamond who has also written allot about human evolution...... and about third man (could this be orc?)
The ideas you put out are well thought out and the cycle of the elf is similar to that of primates (some) but as we don't know what they are thinking it is not possible to say they only have arousal at the time of heat, however the only other primate apart from man which douse is a type of monkey whos name escapes me they do it for fun and bonding, with anything they can get there hands on.
I know that elf biology is not the same as human and to all intents and purposes not real. However you have to draw something from our biology if they were goblinised or born elf (it's a case of genetics).
Dwarves well, if you look at skeletal differences in male and female primates of all species there is one simple difference between the both, the brow ridge, even in illustrations seen in source books the male's have a brow ridge's and the female's don't, ( well almost a bit hard to tell in the case of orks and trolls).
The argument could be made that the Dwarf, Elf, Ork and Troll are different species but they came from a base species (that being man) and should still hold some simalaritys to anatomy. However this subject could be debated for a long time and it is not proven science, so anything go's.
Good concept
torz x
Posted by: hyzmarca Jul 21 2006, 01:13 PM
| QUOTE (Ceres) |
| As for "forty years to develop different genetalia", evolution and the like is hardly predictable. I don't study evolution or biology to that degree, but it's possible, to a degree, for things to at least begin to change like that. I don't know if it's possible that quickly, but recessive genetics, man... I'm not clear on SR's look at genetics, though. Ergo, not sure how they'd play in, but they might. Dun quote me on any of that, though. |
Nope, not really. Massive changes aren't how evolution works. It is all about minor differances that don't significantly deviate from normal but which provide a reproductive advantage. Over thousands of generations those minor deviations will be standardized and/or exagerated. Such massive changes over such a short period of time would not be evolution, it would be revolution.
However, UGE is not evolution. Rather, it is the expression of traits which alread existed but which had been supressed by enviromental factors. 5000 years is not nearly enough time to select against those suppressed traits so there wouldn't be any evolution away from them.
Say, for example, I started a island colony and put a chemical in the water supply that caused fetuses to devolp clubbed feet. Over the centuries, clubbed feet would begin to seem normal to the inhabitants of this island. However, if the contaminant is removed the children born without it will have normal feet. This has nothing to do with evolution.
The same is true for lactating men. Men have all of the structures necessary for a fuunctional breast and we are able to devolp those structures into working milk-machines. However, most men do not have large working breasts because we lack the necessary hormones. The introduction of those hormones is all that is necessary to produce a race of big-breasted men.
In this case, the enviromental factor is mana.
Personally, I would look at metahuman anatomy it from the Fourth World rather than the Sixth World. I also wouldn't make the differences so extreme.
I'm just glad he didn't state that elf males go into a period of sexual frenzy once every seven years, which requires them to either mate or kill their Captain.
Posted by: nezumi Jul 21 2006, 02:05 PM
I did guess on the orks being cat-like, although I was under the impression that ovulation didn't occur due to orgasm, but due to vaginal stimulation (more generally). BTW, like cats, here ork mothers can give birth to a litter that has two or more fathers. Can you imagine being "twins" with your half-brother?
The troll surprises me though. We already have human reproduction. Given the hentai background we're using, I think it only makes sense that troll penises are actually tentacles.
Posted by: Ed Simons Jul 21 2006, 02:13 PM
| QUOTE (WhiskeyMac) |
| And why the hell do Trolls have dog-sheaths on their penises? And Orks have barbs like cats? |
Because everyone knows orks and trolls are just animals.
And elves are all hawt nymphos who are far to speshul to have deal with messy ol' biology like real women.
And dwarves are so manly that even their women have beards and dicks.
Isn't it fun turning them into one-dimesional sterotypes.
Posted by: Ed Simons Jul 21 2006, 02:20 PM
| QUOTE (FanGirl) |
| So, how do you explain the fact that ork babies "are most often born in litters of four, but some ork mothers have given birth to as many as eight young," as stated on p. 66 of the 4th edition BBB? |
Orks giving birth in litters is one of the most nonsensical things in the setting.
Magic Indians conquering half of North America makes more sense.
Art Dankwalter makes more sense.
Posted by: Sahandrian Jul 21 2006, 02:38 PM
| QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jul 21 2006, 09:13 AM) |
| The same is true for lactating men. Men have all of the structures necessary for a fuunctional breast and we are able to devolp those structures into working milk-machines. However, most men do not have large working breasts because we lack the necessary hormones. The introduction of those hormones is all that is necessary to produce a race of big-breasted men. In this case, the enviromental factor is mana. |
Mana is all that's necessary to give men big breasts?
We might want to rethink that awakening thing...
I know what you meant, but it's morning and that's what I saw at first...
Posted by: Sicarius Jul 21 2006, 03:07 PM
| QUOTE (Ed Simons) |
| [/QUOTE] Orks giving birth in litters is one of the most nonsensical things in the setting. Magic Indians conquering half of North America makes more sense. |
not to necessarily disagree with you about the silliness of litters, but isn't there a hormone treatment they give now that increases fertility, and the chance at twins, triplets, quadriples or whatever the heck? could ork females naturally carry such a hormone?
It's a question not a statement, so nobody flame me.
Posted by: Lindt Jul 21 2006, 03:31 PM
Its more a meta reason to have large young populations of orks.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jul 21 2006, 03:39 PM
I'll buy it. You know why? Because whenever I read about any fictitious biology it's all very well explained and makes a lot of sense. Then I watch Discovery and they talk about real-life animals that live in rainforests, in Austrailia, or in the ocean, and they're a whole lot weirder than you can get away with in fiction before people start calling "bullshit."
Now if all that wacky crap is possible in RL, and I've already suspended my disbelief enough to add mana and metagenes into the mix, I say, "Sure, why the heck not?"
Posted by: Chrome Shadow Jul 21 2006, 07:21 PM
A few months out of here and this is what I fall into...
I need an elf woman... 
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