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Posted by: Schaeffer Jul 19 2006, 04:24 PM

Okay, no doubt by 2070, public libraries would probably exist within the Matrix, rather than in the form of dusty books in a building downtown, but what if libraries as we know them today were still around? My specific question is, what do you think the level of security would be for a place like that? Would Joe Shadowrunner be able to waltz in and check out a book? Do research? I'm sure a SIN would be required and mandatory to even get in (let alone walk/drive into that part of town), but what do you think?

Posted by: James McMurray Jul 19 2006, 04:26 PM

I think printed books would probably be expensive, and not likely to be available in a free library.

Posted by: jklst14 Jul 19 2006, 05:11 PM

Rather than provide regular books, I think libraries would be more likely to provide e-paper versions or print out hardcopies on demand.

As for security, I could imagine printed books being very rare since most people don't read them and thus, they would be expensive with relatively high security.

On the other hand, you could rationalize the exact opposite. If the average SR citizen has no interest in books, you could have piles of unwanted old books cluttering up used bookstores and Ebay with little or no security.

Posted by: Witness Jul 19 2006, 05:16 PM

You might get some run-down charity-funded community centers stocked with tatty old paperbacks, especially in barrens areas with poor matrix connections or people unable to afford commlinks at all.
Then you'll get the plush clubs, for private members only, with their own libraries stocked with rare volumes.
Probably not much in between.

Posted by: stevebugge Jul 19 2006, 05:31 PM

I would imagine that in addition to public libraries, and School Libraries there are probably also Corporate Libraries (funded by corps open to the public for PR purposes) with carefully selected works in them. Hard copy books probably fall in to two categories, very valuable high-end luxury items and yardsale junk. Most libraries probably do not allow the original hardcopies to leave the premises, but print on demand copies or electronic scan versions are probably available on chips or via the Matrix, probably loaded with some sort of DRM encryption scheme. Libraries probably have a lot of dataterminals for public use and most of the collection can probably be accessed that way, the actual stacks probably are rarely visited by anyone but cleaning drones.

Posted by: deek Jul 19 2006, 06:07 PM

Yeah, I wouldn't think there would be many actual books in most of these libraries...public, educational or corporate. I could see a lot of books available for download or possibly on chips, but I doubt many people would be touching anything on paper.

I would also think that there would be viewing equipment for those that don't have the capability to do it. And, I would also think that a service they would offer would be to subscribe to their nodes and maybe gain access to more books...obviously, they would have a wide spread audience over the matrix, but I think they could likely allow a bigger volume set for users that are physically in the building, plus RFID info and other "goodies" available for on-site users only.

But paper...I doubt much of anything would be available, except on the off chance there were old, first edition prints...I doubt much of anything published in the last 30-40 years would be in paper...

Also, with trideo and simsense, I would think the visual story would be a lot more common to see than simple text and reading...

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jul 19 2006, 07:35 PM

Considering anything published (or republished) in the last 50 years would've been done primarily electronically, a print library would be more like a museum than a modern library. I would expect decent security (to prevent minor theft) but nothing amazing.

Posted by: Demerzel Jul 19 2006, 10:52 PM

In Harlequin the first run in the series is against a book publisher. Ehran the Scribe wrote out the volume by hand or some such and it was being prepared for printing.

Also SR3 included information on hard copy magical libraries.

Never discount the value and comfort that people will place in paper hard copies. I suspect the book binder's art will be alive and well in the sixth world.

Posted by: Shadowmeet Jul 19 2006, 11:03 PM

Hmmm. I wonder if anyone has made the Classics such as the Illiad, into Chips. Why read, when you can experience.

I am sure they have the tech to create the reality, program Agents for the Characters, so everything is perfect. Record. And let loose.

Posted by: WhiskeyMac Jul 19 2006, 11:04 PM

I would say the library has security but it would be a half-assed attempt at such. I worked security at the Main library in my town and most of my time was spent preventing abuse to the facility not the books. All I did most of the day was make sure people weren't sleeping, bums weren't washing themselves in the bathrooms and little children weren't playing on the elevators. Watching the books or scanning for any weapons was secondary to those duties.

I think there would be paper book libraries but those would be rare or pay to use. SINs wouldn't be required to access the library. Only if you wanted a copy, print-out or to "rent" a book, then you would need a SIN with a valid "library card"

I would think public libraries would just be a building that has a lot of lounge chairs or cots to lay down while you did your work. The books would all be AR based and you could get an e-paper copy if you wanted something to hold in your hands. Almost everything would probably be done through AR, except for maybe things pertaining to the handicapped.

Posted by: underaneonhalo Jul 19 2006, 11:31 PM

Considering "gremlins" and "simsense vertigo" there are probably a fair amount of physical book libraries and even bookstores around, if not just for the fact that some people just like to sit in a comfy chair, adjust a lamp, and read a book. The feel and smell of paper make the story more tangible, and connects you to the author in ways a cold and sterile word file never will. Heck, you could blindfold me and I could probably name most of my well read books by touch alone!

Posted by: WhiskeyMac Jul 19 2006, 11:35 PM

Very true. I prefer good ol paper books over a PDF file any day. But we are talking about 2070, where computer integration has gone far above what we have today. Maybe those e-paper versions are just a cover with the e-paper on the inside and an AR scent of "generic musty tome #21a" is sprayed periodically?

And not everyone has "gremlins" and "simsense vertigo", those are niche fields.

Posted by: SL James Jul 20 2006, 03:07 AM

Posted by: underaneonhalo Jul 20 2006, 03:30 AM

Posted by: SL James Jul 20 2006, 03:47 AM

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Jul 20 2006, 03:55 AM

I don't know. The Crash may have wiped out a lot of info otherwise only in books. They might be in high demand right after the crash.

Posted by: Demerzel Jul 20 2006, 06:43 AM

I think that arguments like the cost of traditional publishing and the environmental impact are only people failiing to think imaginitively about technology. Which is hillarious because when it pertains to the print industry they are the very people who are claiming this ebook technology is the way of the future. Sorry I mean The Future™.

While, in fact, I believe in 2070 on demand printing will be highly popular. E-Books will also be popular, but instead of a book store stocking shelves, they just print what you want when you want it.

Consider the cost of a "printer" in SR4 is basically the cost of a ream of paper with disposable printer attached. Paper will also always be a popular media for comunicating to people who do not have the media devices necessary to read digital files. Consider that the argument of 8track vs. Cassete wouldn't exist if humans had an 8-Track player built into their heads and could slot an 8-track tape. If that were the case cassetes would never have happened. We have out paper "readers" right there, and they aren't going anywhere.

Basically I don't think you can throw out the concept of paper. It's outlasted every other semi-permanent media in existance, and will continue for decades.

Posted by: SL James Jul 20 2006, 07:25 AM

Posted by: eidolon Jul 20 2006, 07:57 AM

Personally, I think it's a little silly to think that there wouldn't be books. There are books around today from centuries ago. We produce more printed material now than you could burn in a hundred years (well, you could if you tried, it's hyperbole).

I don't think any amound of wizzer tech is going to push books off our map so completely that there wouldn't be repositories for them any longer. As someone said, some prefer books over any other form of "written" word regardless of how nifty of a delivery system is possible.

I think this is an example of taking a idea (lack of literacy/ commonality of electronic media) and taking it to an extreme that doesn't support believability.

Posted by: Witness Jul 20 2006, 08:01 AM

Posted by: ShadowDragon8685 Jul 20 2006, 09:23 AM

Posted by: SL James Jul 20 2006, 09:24 AM

Posted by: Witness Jul 20 2006, 01:40 PM

Posted by: Toshiaki Jul 20 2006, 04:24 PM

It was a quote from here last night. It looks like the original poster has edited it after getting some sleep.

Posted by: Demerzel Jul 20 2006, 06:18 PM

It's in an article linked to by the poster previous to the poster who posted the quote. It's an article by a whiney eBook author who thinks he should be regarded among the ranks of the published because some eBook publishing house put out a 2 cent investment to insert his book into their sales list or something. I couldn't bring my self to read the whole thing, you see it wasn't on paper, and he wasn't a good enough author for me to want to print it out at 1 cent a page.

Posted by: Wiseman Jul 20 2006, 06:34 PM

There would be books....

On electronic paper