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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Well out of the loop

Posted by: torzzzzz Jul 20 2006, 09:35 AM

Hi All,

Been out of things for a while how go's in the world of shadowrun?
We are just about to start with SR4 and any tips would be great, it seems to me that i can't bring my troll or ork over to SR4 due to age, i am well miffed bout that!

torz x

Posted by: Snow_Fox Jul 20 2006, 11:08 AM

My group just ignored 4th ed and keep going with 3rd ed.

Posted by: SL James Jul 20 2006, 11:31 AM

QUOTE (torzzzzz)

it seems to me that i can't bring my troll or ork over to SR4 due to age, i am well miffed bout that!

Pssst.

Leonization. Make the whole experience something for them to deal with during the interim period.

Posted by: torzzzzz Jul 21 2006, 08:23 AM

True, we are going to give it a go but it is hard to let go of SR3 we all relay enjoy playing and well i am sure this has been debated before but we never play riggers and all relay get on with the rules.

yeah things have to move on but i will have to look at SR4 some more first.

Torz x

Posted by: JongWK Jul 22 2006, 01:26 PM

Welcome back.

Posted by: Catsnightmare Jul 22 2006, 08:35 PM

Removed for reasons of my own.

Posted by: Synner Jul 22 2006, 09:06 PM

QUOTE (Catsnightmare @ Jul 22 2006, 08:35 PM)

Drop SR4 it's crap, and go bootleg yourself a copy of SR3 since lots of other people have figured out SR4 sucks and have bought out all existing hard copies of SR3.

Try SR3 it's great, if you decide not to don't go bootleg copy of SR3 since lots of other people have figured out SR4 is great there's still plenty of existing hard copies of SR3 on the market.

Still trying to figure out how with "lots of other people having figured out SR4 sucks" it's still got nominated by fans for the http://www.enworld.org/ennies/2006-1.html for Best Rules and Best Product as opposed to a game that's really popular.

Posted by: Catsnightmare Jul 22 2006, 10:11 PM

QUOTE (Synner)

there's still plenty of existing hard copies of SR3 on the market.

Not unless anyone else in Austin knows where to get a hardcopy of SR3 around here. I was told today at Barnes & Noble, Borders and Dragon's Lair that it was out of print/not available. I'll have to resort to the hated on-line shopping.

Posted by: Grinder Jul 22 2006, 10:28 PM

QUOTE (Catsnightmare)

Drop SR4 it's crap, and go bootleg yourself a copy of SR3 since lots of other people have figured out SR4 sucks and have bought out all existing hard copies of SR3.

Hell, bashing SR4 is so out-of-date. Enjoy your SR3 games, but please don't annoy us with "statements" like this.

Posted by: Adam Jul 23 2006, 01:06 AM

QUOTE (Catsnightmare)

Drop SR4 it's crap, and go bootleg yourself a copy of SR3 since lots of other people have figured out SR4 sucks and have bought out all existing hard copies of SR3.

Or you could just buy them from FanPro, as it's still in stock -- as are some [but a declining number] of the SR3 advanced rulebooks.

Posted by: FenrisWolf Jul 23 2006, 01:09 AM

At the risk of starting a SR3/SR4 flame war, what's the problem with the new edition? I'm a new Shadowrun player and I just purchased SR4 so I'm just getting into the meat of the system. Is it old school nostalgia or major problems with the system revamp?

Posted by: hyzmarca Jul 23 2006, 03:01 AM

There are major differences in flavor and texture. Its like the Almond Joy vs the Mounds. SR3 contains crunchy nuts and has a milk chocolate coating while SR4 is smooth and coated with dark chocolate.

Much of the flavor and texture that made SR3 distinct was stripped out of SR4 in the process of streamlining. There have also been some issues with incomplete or poorly writen rules, but they are rather minor compared to the glaring flavor differences.

Posted by: Apathy Jul 23 2006, 04:31 AM

QUOTE (FenrisWolf)

Just my opinion, but I like SR4. I think they're both good systems, and each of them have a distinct set of strengths and flaws. Many [most?] of the folks who intensely dislike SR4 were very attached to concepts in SR3 that were removed or got radically changed (Combat Pool, Karma Pool, variable target numbers, no skill caps, etc.)

Also, although I personally feel that the SR4 core book is more complete/all-encompassing than the SR3 core book was, it's not a mature system yet, and many of the advanced rules brought out in the array of SR3 expansion books (MITS, CC, R3, etc.) haven't been covered yet.

Finally, I think that it's only fair to point out that many of the folks who are violently opposed to SR4 were equally bitchy about SR3 before it 'went away'.

Posted by: Method Jul 23 2006, 05:05 AM

Hello all.

I too have been out of the loop for awhile so I am glad to see a discussion like this already in full swing. When I last left DSF the SR3 vs SR4 debait was at its height, but it seemed like most of the the SR4-haters were uninformed and had little to no actual experience with the new system to speak of.

I'm wondering: now that the system has been around for awhile (and people might have a more thorough understanding of its strengths and weaknesses) is it growing on anybody? What really are those strengths and weaknesses (aside from the flavor thing that hyzmarca mentioned)?

Posted by: eidolon Jul 23 2006, 09:30 AM

It's growing on some folks, but I hear there are topical medications out for it now.

There are tons of threads around here that already address all of this without starting a cock swinging festival. Do a search or fifty.

Posted by: torzzzzz Jul 23 2006, 02:13 PM

Having played SR3 form many years it is like all new things, hard to take on, we are going to have a few games and see what it is like.

I have hundreds of SR books going back to 2nd edition so i am certainly not short of source books.

I better get on creating all new characters!

torz x

Posted by: underaneonhalo Jul 23 2006, 06:17 PM

Gee I remember saying alot of this same crap to my friends and fellow gamers when SR3 came out... That said, I know I've seen other SR2 players on here saying that they've started playing again with the release of SR4. Maybe it's not so much a matter of which is better but a matter of how different it is from what you learned to play, we all need to respect each others opinions because none of this really matters in the end since Top Secret SI is still the greatest RPG ever.

Posted by: Catsnightmare Jul 24 2006, 12:50 AM

I want to appologize for my earlyer statements starting shit. When I posted I was still pissed off about having just spent nearly the whole day going all over Austin to try and find a copy of SR3 and being denied at every store.

Posted by: torzzzzz Jul 24 2006, 09:17 AM

No probs, try Ebay UK we have quite a few knocking about over here!

torzx

Posted by: Adam Jul 24 2006, 10:02 AM

QUOTE (Catsnightmare)

I don't have up-to-the-second stock reports, but last time I checked FanPro still had SR3 [stock number 25000, the older stock numbers are OOP] in stock and it should still be available to distributors and retail stores. If you want to order it locally, Warehouse 23 http://www.warehouse23.com/item.html?id=FPR25000, or you might just try phoning Dragon's Lair again and asking for their buyer/purchaser, who may be able to help you more than a regular clerk can.

Posted by: Jrayjoker Jul 24 2006, 01:22 PM

Welcome back! What has been going on? Just the normal fanboy ranting and raving about all things SR3 and 4.

Our group has been playing SR4 much the same way that we played SR3. That is to say, no hackers and very few riggers. We may get more daring and try it out some time, but not soon as far as I can tell.

Sure, there is a flavor difference, and the depth of information about the world (i.e., supplements, etc.) is minimal now, but the old source books are still canon until they are usurped by newer information. Have fun and play what you want.

That is all.

Posted by: Moon-Hawk Jul 24 2006, 05:15 PM

Personally, I tend to feel that SR4 went too far in a good direction. I think I actually prefer SR3 a bit, but perhaps that will change as more SR4 books come out. (or they ever release a F&@#ing FAQ!!!) But perhaps most importantly, SR4 gets new people to play, because SR3 was just too darn intimidating for a lot of people.

Posted by: Grinder Jul 24 2006, 05:19 PM

I like both systems as neither is flawless. SR scares a lot of people by the many many many fluff sourcebooks that are available and needed not because the rules are bad.

Posted by: Cain Jul 24 2006, 06:00 PM

QUOTE (Synner)

QUOTE (Catsnightmare @ Jul 22 2006, 08:35 PM)

Drop SR4 it's crap, and go bootleg yourself a copy of SR3 since lots of other people have figured out SR4 sucks and have bought out all existing hard copies of SR3.

The ENnie nominations aren't purely fan-based, but are also filled out by a panel of judges. It's pretty clear that this is going to be the year of Mutants and Masterminds, anyway; they've scored more nominations in more categories than anything else, and will likely blow everyone else out of the water in their categories (which happen to include everything SR4 is nominated for).

Shadowrun also isn't being considered for "best game", which is a category reserved for complete products: "Entries in this category must be complete enough to play as-is, from character creation to rules of play." For some reason, the ENnie panel doesn't seem to think that SR4 is a complete or fully developed system, which dovetails with multiple reviews on RPG.net and many complaints here. It's classified as a supplement, to which I agree; SR4 is an excellent addition to your CP3.0 game.

Posted by: Adam Jul 24 2006, 06:13 PM

What? It's not classified as a supplement by the ENnies awards; it's up for Best Rules and Best Product. Of the 10 products in Best Product, 8 are complete games, one is a setting set, and the other is an adventure set.