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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ What do you miss/don't miss...

Posted by: GoblynByte Jul 30 2006, 04:11 AM

In part two of my investigation into whether or not I should upgrade to SR4 I was wondering if some of you veterans could tell me what you miss that was dropped from SR3 to SR4. And for that matter, what don't you miss?

Posted by: Aaron Jul 30 2006, 06:21 AM

I most definitely don't miss having to douse every scene of a run with kerosene and light it on fire to prevent being tracked or exploded. I also don't miss deckers being best played as NPCs.

Posted by: GoblynByte Jul 30 2006, 02:06 PM

QUOTE (Aaron)

I most definitely don't miss having to douse every scene of a run with kerosene and light it on fire to prevent being tracked or exploded. I also don't miss deckers being best played as NPCs.

That's actually one of the best prospects I've heard in favor of SR4 yet. If deticated deckers are more viable that would be great!

Since I haven't read SR4 could I trouble you to be more specific in this point? What in the game makes them more viable?

And what did you mean by needing to scrap the place in order to avoid being traced?

Posted by: Bull Jul 30 2006, 02:53 PM

Not really sure what Aaron means about the tracing thing (Or why his paranoia isn;t equally valid under SR4 ), but I can try tackling Decking for you...

Basically, Augmented Reality. AR gives the world a "VR Overlay" that everyone interfaces with. Hackers, however, can do a lot more with this overlay. Basically, it makes the Matrix "out there" for the decker to interact with. So for starters, it means there's no reason to stay at home in the basement while you Deck. That's the flavor stuff, anyways.

Now for rules. For starters, the rules are cleaner and pretty simple (though I will admit/agree that the Matrix section is somewhat cluttered). Fewer things to keep track of, fewer rolls to make, on behalf of both the player and the GM.

The second is that everything happens in "Real Time" rather than that goofy "Matrix Time" that used to exist. Matrix Time (Speed of thought stuff) was never really defined well, was confusing, and just really made decking a pain in the arse to deal with.

The third is that it's usually easiest to interface with a node or network directly, rather than hacking your way through a chain of nodes. So the hacker goes ON the run with the other PCs. You come across a locked door? Hack the lock. Security cameras a problem? Hack the buildings security and turn them off, or edit them to recieve a feedback loop. Sec guards got you pinned down? Hack their personal commlinks and feed them some false location data on you and your party.

Bull

Posted by: Charon Jul 30 2006, 03:01 PM

QUOTE (GoblynByte @ Jul 30 2006, 09:06 AM)

And what did you mean by needing to scrap the place in order to avoid being traced?

I'm guessing he's referring to ritual tracking. Some players would go to extreme measures to make sure they left no DNA sample whatsoever behind that a mage could use to track them in SR3.

At this point, after a first read through SR4, it doesn't seem that there are rules to use ritual sorcery with a material link ; you need a spotter to astrally assense the target and lead the group. This in turns probably results in oh so slighlty less paranoid runner.

Not sure this won't change after the magic book comes out, though.

Posted by: GoblynByte Jul 30 2006, 03:29 PM

Excellent. It's sounding like SR4 will be a worthwhile upgrade. All the fears and perceptions I had on the new edition were either simply not true, or actually added to the falvor the game. Differences in rules really didn't worry me much as quite often that can be equated to brass on the Titanic; it's all going down anyway. You're either comfortable with the rules or aren't. But it sounds like the nips and tucks they did make actually encourage a bit more "in your face" gaming. Odd that I imagined it would do quite the opposite.

Thanks all!

Posted by: Grinder Jul 30 2006, 04:48 PM

QUOTE (Charon)

At this point, after a first read through SR4, it doesn't seem that there are rules to use ritual sorcery with a material link ; you need a spotter to astrally assense the target and lead the group. This in turns probably results in oh so slighlty less paranoid runner.

Not sure this won't change after the magic book comes out, though.

I'm sure it will.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jul 30 2006, 08:27 PM

well, given that voodoo isnt in the main book, and voodoo magic have all kinds of way to use magic over material and symbolic links, i would agree with grinder...

Posted by: Protagonist Jul 30 2006, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (GoblynByte)

The one thing that I certainly don't miss in any what so ever are the old vehicle rules. I absolutely hated them (and just ended up houseruling/ignoring them for the most part), despite loving to run vehicle combat sequences.

There were a few things I missed at first (like combat pool, etc.), but after a good read through of the book, there ended up being basically nothing I actually still miss.

Posted by: hobgoblin Jul 30 2006, 09:24 PM

hmm, i wouldnt say the vehicle rules are that diffrent from the old ones...
but thats just my opinion...

Posted by: Jaid Jul 31 2006, 02:49 AM

i miss floating TNs.

that's about it.

Posted by: BishopMcQ Jul 31 2006, 03:12 AM

I miss my handful of dice and a TN 2...

Sure, it's petty, but there was something satifying about rolling 15 dice for a TN 2 from an ambush situation. Runners and NPCs alike died at the hands of my sniper without a chance of survival.

Yes, I know there are ways of doing the same type of thing in SR4, but I can sit on my rocking chair and remember the good old days.

Posted by: DireRadiant Jul 31 2006, 01:47 PM

I miss my 26 dice karma pool.. it was occasionally useful.

I don't miss the constant challenge of going between instant TPK or absolutely no challenge for the runner team.