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Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 12:05 AM

I've seen a little bit of talk about the particular metaplots in SR in other threads. Being a newbie to the SR universe I'm not familiar with all the source material and don't have the moolah to go out and find all the source books. I have come across some pretty weird metaplots and important NPCs that strike me as odd considering the cyberpunk setting. Atzlan's blood magic tinkering fits the theme nicely but all the characters involved behind the scenes are a little contrived. Immortal elves, Dragons, and a whole mess of pretty direct Earthdawn tie-ins. Why? It just doesn't feel like it fits with the cyberpunk setting, IMO.

I'm curious what others think about the various happenings of the SR universe. Evil AI's, cults with nukes, overbearing Immortal Elves and Dragons. What are your favorite metaplots and themes? What are the worst ideas introduced to SR? Anything that just doesn't make sense/ is corny I would like to know about in advance so that I don't buy source books that only introduce weak plots.

Thanks for suggestions and input in advance

Posted by: X-Kalibur Aug 1 2006, 12:23 AM

It's always been more than just Cyberpunk, its a blending of Cyberpunk with Fantasy.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 12:47 AM

I know that. it's just that some stuff works well in a high fantasy world and some stuff works well in cyberpunk. I'm cool with magic and what not, but Dragons and Immortal elves are pushing it. IMO. No complaints about anything then?

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 01:22 AM

Winternight never struck me as particularly feasible or, you know, good. On one hand, it's mostly gone now. On the other, it played way too large a role in the metaplot and we're stuck with it.

Posted by: emo samurai Aug 1 2006, 01:23 AM

Yeah; they're just a cheesy, "Slap mythology on it and it'll look sorta good" kind of thing.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 01:25 AM

What about Dankwalther and the whole Thor Drop thing? Was that justified/explained well?

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Aug 1 2006, 01:27 AM

First you would have to start with what silly or weak metaplots were introduced into Earthdawn because of Shadowrun. Seeing that Shadowrun was first published 4 years ahead of Earthdawn. And from conversations from older SR developers they seen the rich history of Shadowrun and decided to use that to make Earthdawn.

I dont know, making Immprtal elves behind every advance of human kind even during periods of time when magic was so low seems weak, but then again it may not actually be canon that they were, just that people here try to make it out to be that way. I have never read they are behind everything in any sourcebooks, I dont read novels.

But saying Immortal elves and Dragons are pushing the boundries of a weak metaplot is strange seeing that they were always in the game since day one. The continued increase in importance and power of these beings maybe wearing thin, but they themselves arent that much of a stretch in the game of Shadowrun.

Personally I think the whole second world wide matrix crash and rebirth with all new technology and subculture in less then fives years to be really weak. I mean the first major network crash wipes out most of the worlds records which leads to the new SIN system and tons of other world changes and it took years to recover if it really did recover. Then in 2065 it crashes again and we come out better for it in less then 5 years? Then a whole new subculture and infrastructure built around this new tech is in place? Not only that, but you also have people that are so familiar with the new tech whole industries and markets are built around it? But then you also have a world where people were so affraid of being spied on and all that stuff, even today with ID theft, to a culture that just broadcasts their personal stuff out to anyone with in 40 feet of them and some places not letting you in if youarent broadcasting? Thats all silly to me.

And how many times is Richard Villers going to lose a AAA corp befor ehe eats a lead breakfast or the Corporate Court tells him to go get bent? I have to suspect he lost his second corp to the same will of the same dragon. I guess that would be pushing the metaplot a bit far also.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 01:47 AM

Okay, maybe the dragons and Im. Elves don't qualify as metaplot, sorry. I have a problem with how much power and influence they have. They're too powerful. Corps having power is fine with me. It adds to the setting. Meddling immortals are just annoying.

I don't know too much about Earthdawn. I only know what's on Ancient History's site. I read the whole Big D Aztlan conference section and didn't really like it. All those egos in one place and the power that they yield...they should do something more constructive with their time. If Big D says that Aztlan is a threat people are going to listen. If other immortals pipe up then something would get done. Governments and even Corps would do something. How did the whole Aztlan metaplot end up? I think I read somewhere that it cooled down....

The reboot of the Matrix in such a short time is pretty unrealistic, i agree. It is almost as if someone was tipped off that such a thing was about to happen. Why are all hardline systems (like public access grids) completely unusable? It seems as if stock piles of old technology would be better to recover from a Crash-situation than new technology that has to be mass produced in the abscence of a stable infrastructure. Do EMPs melt/destroy fiberoptic cables? I'm no expert, so I'm not sure why node wouldn't just get replaced.

Villiers should die.

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Aug 1 2006, 02:12 AM

Fiber wont melt in an EMP but the emitters and controlling equipment would.

Supposedly yeh Azzies were building a bridge to teh metaplanes the Horrors live in, to prematurely bring them over. When big D exploded himself he use some artifact thingy he made (didnt read the novel) and corked the portal. Ending their little plans. So now the Azzies are kind of taking a back seat.

And really I dont think the Immortals have that much power. They control two tiny countries one is in complete shambles, the other was never a power house to begin with. The major names do a lot of things behind the show, like Harlaquin fighting the Horrors, Ehrin now working for the Draco Foundation instead of the Tir. Some of the Dragons do hold sway in some places, but I still dont think they are all that powerful. Sure Lofwyr has a ton of power. But Lung and Ryumyo are mostly gang bosses and do a little corporate meddeling. It was Lofwyr and Dunk that really had the control. Now its Lofwyr and Ghostwalker to an extent. I guess you can argue any of the dragons have a lot of power but really no more then any other person in the world.

When I worked building cellular systems it was funny when a hurrican came through and damaged 23 cell towers. Basically ruining a lot of high priced equipment. It took 3 weeks for the manfacturer to make the things we needed to repair those towers. The makers said they dont store the stuff because it costs money to store the crap. They just make it on order. I can imagine the entire worlds infrastructure taking a giant shit and the world trying to rebuild in less then 5 years in a system like that. Even the company whos equipment I was repairing didnt store the stuff. To save money they had a very small warehouse. In that very small warehouse they stored legacy equipment. Stuff they were scavenging to repair out of date hardware till the new stuff was in place. So they too had no extra equipment "in case of emergency." All this difficulty was after a minor storm, nothing like Katrina and there was no real state infrastructure damage. I mean we all still had electricity, the roads were clear and normal life was barely if effected at all.

Posted by: hyzmarca Aug 1 2006, 03:05 AM

Well, one thing you have to remember is that Dunkie owned a rather sizable chunk of Aztlan. He was on the Aztechnology Board of Directors. Oscuro and his blood mages wielded a great deal of power over the day-to-day operations of Aztechnology but they weren't exactly operating with the knowledge or the permission of the people in charge.

So long as Oscuro was working within Aztechnology, Dunkie could stort of keep an eye on him and make moves to contain him when necessary. If he had been driven underground he just may have been able to make a Bridge without anyone being the wiser. It isn't like just killing him would have done any good, either. He is merely one in a long succession of agents. Should he have died someone else would have replaced him.

Dunkelzahn was pretty adament about not telling people about the Horrors and other things. He didn't think that it would do any good to start a panic so soon after the awakening. Dragons and Immortals live for tens of thousands of years. When they aren't planning decades ahead they're planning centuries ahead.

Oscuro could have brought over some rather powerful and dangerous Horrors with his Bridge, but they would be nothing compared to the Scourge that is to come. The bridge is limited to places with strong mana spikes, after all. It can be detected and contained, not unlike the Chicago CZ with the Bugs. A handful of Named would be able to cut through any containment measures but the hoards of Unnamed would be stoped. When the Scourge comes, there will be no containment. The Horrors will come from everywhere all at once and there will be more of them than any being can possibly count.

The Scourge is thousands of years away but all of the immortals are preparing for it. They are just using the time that they have to build up civilization to the point where it can survive this disaster.

As for the Aztlan and Enemy Metaplots, it was taken care of in Harlequin's Back and the Dragonheart Trilogy. Oscuro no longer has any power in Aztlan and he is cut off from his masters. Aztechnology is just an evil soulless corporation again. The mana spikes are gone so there is nothing to make a bridge from and Dunkelzhan, ressurected as a Free Spirit possessing an amnesiac Cyberzombie that was physically shifted to the metaplanes, is currently standing guard against the Enemy.


In my opinion, Dunkie's assasination/the Dragonheart Trillogy is the weakest of the metaplots. It seems to me that this was just a way to avoid having a big blue dragon as President.

Posted by: Frag-o Delux Aug 1 2006, 06:06 AM

In my opinion, Dunkie's assasination/the Dragonheart Trillogy is the weakest of the metaplots. It seems to me that this was just a way to avoid having a big blue dragon as President.

Thats what you get for letting the players vote.

Posted by: FanGirl Aug 1 2006, 06:08 AM

I have very little direct experience with most of the fluff text, but I can say with conviction that the Deus storyline has a special place in my heart. Renraku Arcology: Shutdown was the first SR fluff text I ever read, and it shocked me so thoroughly that I felt compelled to keep reading on. I cannot convey in words how absolutely chilling that book was to me; it basically put me through a shortened version of the emotional rollercoaster I rode when I took a class on the Holocaust during my senior year. (If there are any DSers here who worked on that book, let me just say this to you: )

Then Emo roped me into his campaign, advised me to play a TM, and threw in a new AI that incorporates elements of Deus' code and has professed an "interest" in my character, so what I read about in Shutdown took on an extra-special significance for me. FanGirl knows perfectly well that Deus spurred many otaku to commit horrible atrocities in his name, and she's very afraid that this new AI might steer her into perpetrating similar acts.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Emo has forbidden me from reading System Failure, because then I'd know too much and he'd have to kill FG.

Posted by: AngelWuff Aug 1 2006, 06:19 AM

coolest idea: shadowrun in general ^.~

lesse, I'm personally loving the strange and often creepy ways simsense is used. had a bad day, become someone else on your weekend. I loved the raku story, and system failure was a delightful read for the most part

the bad: ok, seems like a lot, but just me. all these balkanized nations don't always make the most sense... NAN, CAS, ect... the bridge between 3 and 4 is kinda bad. wouldn't every TM have a datajack and thus -1 resonance... and the _everything WIFI_ is kinda bad [but downplay it a little]. use of things like wi-fi, rfid, flash mob, and other modern terms seems antiquated if it's 70 years from now...

the super ancient 4th age is interesting, but how does that affect religion, ect...

also, is there even oil left by then... [in my game, it's actually no. it's all hydrogen/electric based on the fusion/microwave power. we'll be nice, assume that synthetic alternatives were made, probably based on vegetative matter or some other psuedo science, yah....

ohyeah, cyberpirates. now that's a fun book for cruising the carribean... *grin* can already see a bunch of bad pirates of the carribean runs....

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 08:07 AM

Germany got the worst metaplot ever. Starting with the attempt to re-create the US setting which resulted in a lot of tiny troll kingdoms, dwarven strongholds and similar shit. And let's not start with Berlin...
Some years later new writers tried to repair it, but failed miserably - childish would-be-anarchist. Pfff...

Further I dislike Lofwyr running a whole AAA in his head, the Dragonheart Trilogy and the metaplot presented in it and finally the fact that every famous genius out in human history has been an IE in disguise. And some really bad people too.

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 08:24 AM

Posted by: Witness Aug 1 2006, 08:34 AM

Loved Dunkelzahn's Will etc, Deus / the Arcology shutdown, and much of Crash 2.0 (it bedded into my campaign pretty well, mainly because I had Lochost working behind the scenes as the Dissonance- yes I like me my ED/SR crossovers).

I'm with James in not particularly loving Winternight (but hey- they're gone now), and I'm with Frag-o in feeling that something big needs to bring the Villiers cycle to an end.

I've never been a fan of either Tir, although SR4's changes to Tir Tairngire seem like an improvement. And the UK and associated plotlines seem pretty feeble from what I've heard about them, although again it seems like they're nudging canon in the right direction there.

Big fan of new kid Horizon. See lots of mileage there, although I fear too much elaboration may spoil their mystique.

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 08:45 AM

You can't uncreate something like Winternight. So, no, it's not really "gone" as far as I am concerned. As a terrorist group, it kinda sorta worked within the context of Shadowrun. As an idea, though, I think it could have been done better. Plus, there is the fact that I suspect Steve Kenson wrote the original entry in Threats since the whole Norse mythology and symbolism would appeal to him intellectually. Kind of like how I doubt it was a coincidence that he wrote Deus' icon to be the World Tree, Yggdrasil.

AFAIK, Deus was never supposed to have an unchanging icon. It just... was. It was kind of like dealing with God (hint hint, hence the name Deus) within his Kingdom.

This is probably one of the reasons why Dave and Brian had so much trouble working with him that they eventually quit SR altogether.

I'm not fully aware of what they've done to TT since System Failure. I am quite curious to adhere to canon, but I already had my own idea which I like better than what I've read so far.

Posted by: Witness Aug 1 2006, 08:50 AM

Do share.

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 09:40 AM

It's a bit complicated, and I can't recall offhand because a lot of it is written elsewhere. Also, it does play a hell of an important role in my campaign, stalled as it may be.

Posted by: Witness Aug 1 2006, 10:18 AM

There always seemed to be so many enigmatic players and convoluted plots on the Tir Tairngire scene I really couldn't keep it all straight in my head! I would favour a simpler set up, but I guess some people love that stuff and TT is as good a place for it as any.

Congrats on the new title, btw.

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 11:09 AM

Thanks.

It's a shame I can't really reconcile canon with what I decided to do back in November.

Posted by: Witness Aug 1 2006, 11:25 AM

Always the way.

I don't think there's a lot that's been fixed about 2070 TT (though I admit I've pretty much glossed over it for the time being). So there may be some wiggle-room to bring the two versions together. But if not it's not the end of the world, I guess.

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 11:43 AM

Would you be willing to PM me some more info about it than "it's a puppet democracy with Zincan as the lead puppet"?

Anyway, I'm not sure. I had Zincan killed off.

Posted by: Witness Aug 1 2006, 11:54 AM

I'll try and send you a precis, though I encourage you to buy it.

I know how you feel. I was killing off Brackhaven and Sirianni. Now I have to rethink. Of course nothing's ever quite as it seems in SR, and that goes double for TT. Maybe you didn't kill off Zincan, but a lookalike? *shrug*

Posted by: Critias Aug 1 2006, 12:04 PM

And, well, exactly this sort of situation was why a few of us (me, me, and me) were so very pissed off at the half-a-crumb little teaser BS we got ("Oh, by the way, the High Prince has been kicked out of the Tir, ha ha, imagine the surprise on your 'runners faces when they get this bodyguard gig! Woo!") in System Failure. It wasn't enough for anyone to work with, without going "off the reservation" (like James had to do), and then being stuck trying to backpedal or hand-wave or retcon storylines back in line with canon.

We were given just enough to want to run something, but not enough info to actually run it (with any hope of staying with the metaplot, which is exactly what happens, as it turned out).

Hulk smash!

Posted by: Witness Aug 1 2006, 12:21 PM

This is a problem all round. Same thing with the UK and Pendragon etc.
If only Holostreets would get going, maybe that could be used to help give more of a sense of what's going on in those parts of the world that once had lots of set-up but have since been largely ignored.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 12:29 PM

Could have been worse: you could be given a crappy setting like the german one.

My games never took place in TT, so it was easy to ignore what's happening there for the most part.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 02:16 PM

My favorite has always been the Horrors / Earthdawn tie-in. Ancient Evils ready to spring onto the world have always been good for a change every now and then. Do "typical" shadowruns for a while, but every now and then toss in a bit of "holy shit, that sort of thing shouldn't exist in our world" to spice things up.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 02:17 PM

Or let your runners stumble over some old artifacts (Purifier) and get caught in a treasure hunt with IEs, Dragons, Atleatan Foundation, horrormarked humans and who knows.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 02:26 PM

Mmmm.... horror marks...

Posted by: Witness Aug 1 2006, 02:27 PM

Mmmm.... Artificer...

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 02:39 PM

ontopic: best metaplot: ED/SR crossover

Posted by: mfb Aug 1 2006, 03:06 PM

ED/SR would have been so much better if it hadn't devolved into good versus evil all the damn time. i mean, the manipulation of IEs and GDs i can get down with (though i wish there was more interaction between them and other major powers, such as megacorps and nations). but it seems like every major ED plot is about the Horrors, and you apparently can't have Horrors without evil plots to take over the world. bo-ring.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 03:08 PM

Yeah, there should definitely be a few scenarios where a horror just wanted to do it's horror thing, but it seems the mana levels are too low to let the little guys slip through as of yet.

Posted by: Witness Aug 1 2006, 03:13 PM

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 04:33 PM

Horrors and what-not could be cool except that I hardly know anything about them. As far as "holy shit, that sort of thing shouldn't exist in our world" I go with biological experimentation meets Awakened viruses. I've got a whole bunch of creatures with ancestral memories and constantly changing powers so that I don't get bored with their stats. Makes for scary scenarios.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 05:51 PM

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 05:59 PM

I much prefer Power Hungry to Good VS Evil.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 06:06 PM

I prefer a mixture of many motives.

Posted by: hyzmarca Aug 1 2006, 07:22 PM

When you have stories about Horrors just doing their Horror thing then you get stories like Worlds Without End. A some people hate it and some people don't. No matter which catagory you fall into you have to admire the fact that Ysthgranthe is not evil for evil's sake. He isn't really evil at all. He's basicly just an obssessed and abusive ex-husband who wants to get back together with his one true love or, at the very least, spite her for leaving him no matter what the cost. You could make Worlds Without End into a Lifetime Original Movie without making a single change to the plot. In fact, Wizkids should consider doing so. I'll attract more women to the game.

So, you see, it is quite possible to do a Horrors plot without making the Horrors unquestionably evil. Emotionaly twisted, yes. Evil, not so much. Love means never having to say you're sorry for the unspeakable tortures that no mortal mind can comprehend.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 07:26 PM

Given the subjectivity of the word "evil" I believe there are tons of people that would disagree with the idea that abusive stalkers aren't evil, especially amongst the ranks of the abused and stalked.

Posted by: mfb Aug 1 2006, 07:32 PM

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 07:39 PM

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Aug 1 2006, 07:40 PM

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 07:50 PM

But this whole Horrors thing is Earthdawn stuff. I want to play Shadowrun and I don't think I should have to buy Earthdawn source books to understand what SR's important NPCs are talking about.

Posted by: Brahm Aug 1 2006, 07:55 PM

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 08:02 PM

Dankwalther's stash? That's a cool idea....

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 08:18 PM

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 08:18 PM

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 08:19 PM

But knowing who Alachia was or what's the real danger of The Bridge really helps to build up atmosphere.

Posted by: Lagomorph Aug 1 2006, 08:21 PM

The invae/Bug City story never held my interest much. It was just kind of "ooh, they're aliens that can be in human disguise!" kind of thing.

I loved the Deus and Renraku storyline, by far my favorite.

The Horrors are okay, nothing great. I get tired of "Oh it's that evil aztechnology again, tsk tsk". It just seems dumb that they would be the only ones doing it.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 08:24 PM

Sometimes the atmosphere of "you're caught up in things bigger than you, that you may never understand" can be good too. Especially within the dystopian cyberpunk genre that a lot of SR games take place in.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 08:38 PM

Posted by: Brahm Aug 1 2006, 08:44 PM

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 08:47 PM

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Aug 1 2006, 09:41 PM

Posted by: Demonseed Elite Aug 1 2006, 09:57 PM

My favorite metaplot-lines have been the Invae (Double Exposure/Queen Euphoria/UB/Bug City) and the Deus plotline.

The problem I've had with more recent plotlines all boils down to trying to do too much in too few books. The Invae plotline simmered over at least four game books and a really good novel. The Deus plotline developed through a couple novels, a small part of the Blood in the Boardroom plot, Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, Brainscan, Threats 2, and System Failure. I don't as much like the books like Year of the Comet that try to handle too much in just a single book. It feels like you've been tossed into the deep-end blind-folded and even the good ideas in a book like that don't have the space to be developed. I had some of the same mixed feelings about System Failure: I thought some of the ideas we had for it were terrific, but there was just too much going on there and you couldn't spend enough wordcount on developing any one of those plots.

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 10:11 PM

Posted by: Demonseed Elite Aug 1 2006, 10:55 PM

The New Revolution coup could easily have been its own plotline, it's own book, or even something that developed over multiple books. As could any of the three main tracks of System Failure.

Not only does cramming so many things into one plotline give you less room to develop them, but it also means you're going to have a real hard time developing new plots that don't start to look a lot like ones you've already touched on before.

Posted by: JongWK Aug 1 2006, 11:00 PM

Posted by: stevebugge Aug 1 2006, 11:03 PM

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 11:03 PM

I still find it hilarious and disturbing that the savior of the UCAS/federal government uttered the favored quote of a whole swath of RL right-wing anti-government "activists" (to be kind) who hate the government and whom, in SR, would want to kill her and burn down Washington.

Posted by: PBTHHHHT Aug 1 2006, 11:05 PM

Hmmm... yeah, I loved the New Revolution when it was presented in the Threats 2 book. I liked it so much that the background for my later characters was to have sympathetic ties to it. I just loved the concept that there's groups that want to bring back the former glory of the US.

Posted by: SL James Aug 1 2006, 11:07 PM

It wasn't exactly novel that such a group would exist. It was a nice tie-in to the Alamos 20K chapter in the first Threats, which is probably my favorite along with the Bugs chapter (Lofwyr's being too much like "Hey, let's put Keyser Soze in SR").

It's one of the few things Jon Szeto has written that I can honestly say I like.

It was, IMO, counterproductive to give it so little space in SF.

Posted by: Brahm Aug 1 2006, 11:14 PM

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 11:17 PM

Posted by: Grinder Aug 1 2006, 11:19 PM

Posted by: Demonseed Elite Aug 1 2006, 11:28 PM

Posted by: Valentinew Aug 2 2006, 12:18 AM

Posted by: Dr. Dodge Aug 2 2006, 12:39 AM

The bugs have always been my favorite, if not just for the fact they invoke the feeling of Alien(s). I got into SR after UB, QE, and DE were out (and was unaware of them), but right before Bug City was released. That book blew my mind. I think everyone in my group (we rotate GMing here and there) ran at least one BC campaign. In fact someone is sitting around right now waiting for Street Magic to come out so we can do it all over again. We even took a trip to Chicago one time (years ago) and only used the map in the back of Bug City to navigate around. Bless those FASA folks for making a realistic map

hooray cermak and ashland (btw there was some mexican/latino festival going on on the street when we went there, fun stuff.)

Posted by: SL James Aug 2 2006, 01:01 AM

Posted by: Demonseed Elite Aug 2 2006, 01:30 AM

Posted by: SL James Aug 2 2006, 01:44 AM

I'm sure there are. And, yes, I would like that book as well.

Posted by: mfb Aug 2 2006, 01:51 AM

i missed most of the bug metaplot--or, rather, i got all of it, all at once, so there wasn't much suspense to it. i do like the latests twist, though, with Ares (finally) sitting down and figuring out how to turn a profit off the whole business.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 2 2006, 02:05 AM

Is what I hear about Ares cutting a deal with the Invae true? Where is that stated?

Posted by: SL James Aug 2 2006, 02:16 AM

Threats 2. The chapter titled Betrayal.

Posted by: mfb Aug 2 2006, 02:19 AM

they're not cutting a deal, they're capturing queens and shamans and forcing them to do Ares' bidding. it's in Threats 2.

Posted by: hyzmarca Aug 2 2006, 03:21 AM

Posted by: FanGirl Aug 2 2006, 03:57 AM

Posted by: Dr. Dodge Aug 2 2006, 04:17 AM

hey you got it back more or less now

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 04:27 AM

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 04:34 AM

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 2 2006, 04:42 AM

So they did discontinue the new novel series? I think I read that somewhere....

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 04:49 AM

Posted by: Grinder Aug 2 2006, 08:49 AM

Posted by: Grinder Aug 2 2006, 08:50 AM

Posted by: Grinder Aug 2 2006, 08:51 AM

Posted by: SL James Aug 2 2006, 09:37 AM

Yes. Please do.

Posted by: Grinder Aug 2 2006, 09:44 AM

"On my signal, unleash hell."

Posted by: JongWK Aug 2 2006, 10:43 PM

Posted by: Demonseed Elite Aug 2 2006, 10:55 PM

Material that they didn't purchase as part of the word count doesn't really belong to them and so you could pretty much release it (assuming it doesn't use material they do own or reference material they own but haven't published). But if you release it as fan-made, non-canon stuff, you basically can never use it as published, canon material.

Which is why I never put out any of my many brainstorm ideas until I'm pretty damn sure they'll never be used in print.

Posted by: JongWK Aug 2 2006, 11:57 PM

Posted by: Ancient History Aug 2 2006, 11:58 PM

Freelancers: Gaming's equivalent of scrap-book ladies.

Posted by: JongWK Aug 3 2006, 12:13 AM

Sigged!

Posted by: Caine Hazen Aug 3 2006, 01:01 AM

Posted by: WhiskeyMac Aug 3 2006, 01:58 AM

I think Drops of Corruption was the last pre-Crash 2.0 book. Aftershock definitely is set in the 70's with a pretty good incorporation of AR. Good read.

Posted by: BrianL03 Aug 3 2006, 03:29 AM

Posted by: Brahm Aug 3 2006, 04:26 AM

Posted by: mfb Aug 3 2006, 04:39 AM

i think i recall something about them dropping the HeroClix-based novels. not sure, though. might have just bee wishful thinking. Shadowrun isn't about immature stuff, like toys, it's about lesbian elves with gigantic boobs!

Posted by: Grinder Aug 3 2006, 10:43 AM

Posted by: SL James Aug 3 2006, 11:43 AM

Well, my opinions on that one particular subject/subchapter of SF are quite well-known. Now I'm also filled with a great deal of disappointment.