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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Photographic Memory and TM's

Posted by: Lagomorph Aug 1 2006, 06:58 PM

A thread spun off from the Uncouth thread. If a TM takes the Photographic Memory positive quality, would you let them store matrix data in their brain since they can't normally?

Posted by: Rotbart van Dainig Aug 1 2006, 07:01 PM

No. This quality just influences the accuracy of TMs mind when remembering things - it doesn't add a new memory.

Posted by: GrinderTheTroll Aug 1 2006, 07:05 PM

TM's aren't interfacing with there programs the same way "regular" hackers too anyways. The whole idea of computer memory is not the technical one a classically trained person would have.

Albeit there are many sorts of exceptional recollection abilities (aural, visual, numerics, etc.) I'd argue Photographic memory (visual) is not the same as Random Access Memory type computer storage (data). I'd say not.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 07:13 PM

I'd allow it on a very limited basis, anything beyond a few files, minutes of video, etc. would require memory tests.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 08:01 PM

Would that Adept power, eidetic memory, be able to convert complex info into data via a simrig? Like if they didn't have a comm on them in prison and they wanted to have a photo of some dude that "knifed" him for friends look at and hunt him down with. Or converting a book to data real quick.

Granted, a TM can't take advantage of an Adept power....

BACK ON TOPIC: I don't see why they couldn't make a memory check to see if the info trying to be remembered could be reproduced mentally. Like the prison example above. But it wouldn't be data that was "stored" with photo memory. Or at least it wouldn't function as such. Complex things like programs I would say no way. Someone's face, sure. But it would technically be simsense data. Very limited stuff, too.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 08:11 PM

Heck, I'd probably go as far as to have a 30BP quality that let TMs store electronic data in their head, maybe 20BP and let it be hackable.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 08:22 PM

Ultraviolet nodes? Being hackable would only open up another can of worms we're not prepared for. If their brains were hackable so would the rest of their bodies and their actual memories.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 08:28 PM

Why? It's one way to do it, but not the only way. Allowing hacking to only hit that one datastore could work equally well.

Normal memories are already "hackable" via magic and to some extent technology.

Posted by: Dogsoup Aug 1 2006, 09:55 PM

I'm pretty sure the netbook for 4ed will expand on TMs and give them some sort of storage option.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 10:00 PM

Besides "carry a chip"? Why would you need anything else?

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 10:05 PM

Do you mean why would you need anything besides carrying a memory chip for storage? There are several reasons:

- storage in your brain can't be spotted
- storage in your brain can be carried anywhere
- storage in your brain is going to be a lot harder to hack into then your commlink, since first they'd have to realize you're a TM, then they have to figure out that you're one of the rare ones with a hackable brain.

Theres probably a lot more, but those alone would be enough of a reason for me to buy the quality if I were playing a TM and it were allowed.

Posted by: Brahm Aug 1 2006, 10:13 PM

To me having the ability to stream a reasonably small amout of digital data, such as a video feed or computer file, into your head with perfect recall ability, or perhaps a Memory Test to recall, seems to be a suitable capability for an Echo.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 10:13 PM

QUOTE

- storage in your brain is going to be a lot harder to hack into then your commlink, since first they'd have to realize you're a TM, then they have to figure out that you're one of the rare ones with a hackable brain.

Except I'm most likely to hack in first. If he's a hackable techno, I might not be able to tell his brain from his commlink, but that doesn't stop me from deleteing everything in there.

A fingertip compartment, skin pocket, or various other methods can hide my techno's external memory pretty well for a fraction of the price. Hell, I could even have a datachip implanted into my head. How's that for concealability? Technos have a little lee-way with essence (essence loss rounded UP), so they can afford to do that. Any of that cost a lot less than 20 BP (100,000 nuyen) and is safer on your noggin.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 1 2006, 10:16 PM

Cool. Differing opinions and all that. If offered, my techno will take it, yours won't. No biggie.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 10:19 PM

Nope, no biggie at all. Except for those hackable technos....poor things.

Posted by: Lagomorph Aug 1 2006, 10:19 PM

QUOTE (Samaels Ghost)

Technos have a little lee-way with essence (essence loss rounded UP), so they can afford to do that.

Is that a house rule? Or do you have a page ref? I was under the impression that they lost ess round down for fractional amounts.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 10:22 PM

page. 232. Implants and Resonance
"...take any [essence loss] and round up to the nearest whole number."

Posted by: Brahm Aug 1 2006, 10:26 PM

QUOTE

... This amount is deducted from the technomancer’s Resonance.

The penalty is rounded up. So the Essense is effectively rounded down, just like with the Awakened and everyone else. Which means no leeway. :/

Posted by: Lagomorph Aug 1 2006, 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Samaels Ghost)

page. 232. Implants and Resonance
"...take any [essence loss] and round up to the nearest whole number."

Err, I read what you were saying wrong, we're on the same page, sorry!

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 1 2006, 10:37 PM

my mistake.

Posted by: WhiskeyMac Aug 2 2006, 04:05 AM

What you guys are forgetting is that you don't have to carry around a memory chip at all. As long as you have access to the wireless matrix (which TMs do have about 99.99% of the time) then you can store data in a wireless data node, or that wireless enabled slab of memory you have back at your favorite bar or anywhere else in the world with a wireless connection. No need to carry around a memory chip at all.

Posted by: Samaels Ghost Aug 2 2006, 04:16 AM

ooo, good point. Unless you're in a wireless no-zone or a wireless secure facility.

Posted by: booklord Aug 2 2006, 04:33 AM

90% of technomancers probably carry a commlink on them anyways.

Technomancers don't emit their personal information and identification constantly like your average commlink. ( At least as far as I know. Actually I suspect their natural state is Hidden mode. ) They need a commlink so they don't show up like a sore thumb whenever they go someplace that requires people to keep their commlinks on active mode.

In addition to that, the commlink provides all the memory storage the technomancer could want. A technomacner could even keep his sprites on his commlink node so he'll have someplace to keep them while he breaks into that wireless no-zone or a wireless secure facility.

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 04:46 AM

That's why I think it would be doable as an Echo, and without the "more hackable head than other TMs" drawback. Providing a relatively secure storage that can go with the TM no matter what. Not a huge advantage, but a cool and interesting twist. It could also allow them to act like a commlink proper, storing their fake or real SIN, banking info, and other stuff like that. Which I don't get the impression that they can do now.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 2 2006, 01:19 PM

I'd definitely allow it as an echo as well, lowering the BP cost of the quality to compensate (to 10 or 15, depending on what the group felt was reasonable).

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 01:25 PM

Having an Echo duplicated in a Quality seems very odd. I can't think of any precidence for that, even in Metamagics. Why have it both places?

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 2 2006, 02:38 PM

Why not? If someone wants it right off the bat they take the quality, with the downside (or the higher priced quality without a downside). If they don't mind waiting, they get it as an echo later.

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 02:48 PM

QUOTE (James McMurray @ Aug 2 2006, 09:38 AM)

Why not?

Because the mirrored redundancy simply doesn't fit with how Echos, and the roughly equivalent Metamagics, are handled so far. An Echo is an advanced technique and state of mind coming from Submersion that isn't particularly natural.

EDIT For the most part it is an inefficency to double up like that. As well it only takes a couple short runs, maybe three, worth of Karma to submerge the first time. So it isn't like putting it as an Echo makes it a long way off for a starting character. A much more productive approach would be to figure out a way to allow initiation and submersion for starting characters. Either just adding karma for all the PCs to spend after they go through their BP stage before play starts, or doing a straight 1:1 BP for karma cost for initiation/submersion.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 2 2006, 03:03 PM

So don't use the idea if you don't like it. What's the problem?

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (James McMurray @ Aug 2 2006, 10:03 AM)

So don't use the idea if you don't like it. What's the problem?

Hey, no problem. Just pointing out your folly.

Doubling up like that is heading down the road of loading everything into Qualities, treating it like the hammer and see everything as a nail.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 2 2006, 03:06 PM

Heh, no problem here either, just pointing out that it's only a folly in Brahm world.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 2 2006, 03:07 PM

Just noticed the edit: nice slippery slope argument you've got there, even if it isn't really applicable.

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 03:08 PM

QUOTE (James McMurray @ Aug 2 2006, 10:06 AM)

Heh, no problem here either, just pointing out that it's only a folly in Brahm world.

QUOTE

Just noticed the edit: nice slippery slope argument you've got there, even if it isn't really applicable.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 2 2006, 03:08 PM

Wait! I just realized it!!! Brahm is talking to me again!

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 03:09 PM

QUOTE (James McMurray)

Wait! I just realized it!!! Brahm is talking to me again!

Oh fuck. Sorry, I had forgotten what a moron you were. My bad.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 2 2006, 03:11 PM

Don't worry, it's only the status quo that you'd lose track of your thoughts from time to time, given how (self-admittedly) disjointed and rambling they are. I'm just sad I didn't get an "automated" response, as it seemed to be the only thing your ADD could focus on for any considerable length of time.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled "bash them when you've got no points" Brahm program already in progress.

Posted by: Brahm Aug 2 2006, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (James McMurray @ Aug 2 2006, 10:11 AM)

We now return you to your regularly scheduled "bash them when you've got no points" Brahm program already in progress.

Ya, now it's coming back in spades. I guess I'll have to write "idiot" under you in pen this time instead of giving you the benefit of any doubt.

Posted by: James McMurray Aug 2 2006, 03:17 PM

See, told you. Sometimes it's a burden being right so much. Life holds fewer surprises.