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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Damage modifiers
Posted by: Smokeskin Aug 3 2006, 03:25 PM
It seems that most people think that wound modifiers goes like
1-3 wounds: -1
4-6 wounds: -2
etc.
I believe the correct way is
0-2 wounds: 0 modifier
3-5 wounds: -1
6-8 wounds: -2
The rules aren't exactly crystal clear on it, but they clearly state for every 3 boxes you get a -1, as opposed to "for every 3 boxes or fraction thereof". Unfortunately the examples in the wound modifiers section only use 3 and 6 wounds as examples.
However, the following examples should clear it up:
SR4 pg 78
| QUOTE |
| A character who possesses this quality can ignore one box of damage per rating point when calculating wound modifi ers (see Wound Modifiers, p. 153). So a character with this quality at Rating 2 can take 4 boxes of damage without suff ering a wound modifier. |
4 boxes, 2 points of HPT, that's 2 boxes effective, giving no modifier.
SR4 pg 231:
| QUOTE |
| It gets 1 hit, enough to reduce the damage to 5 boxes. The IC has 10 boxes on its Matrix Condition Monitor, so it’s halfway to being fi nished, and now suffers from a –1 Wound modifier. |
Here 5 boxes of damage gives a -1 wound modifier.
SR4 pg 188
| QUOTE |
| Subtract your level of Pain Resistance from your current damage before determining your wound modifiers. So, an adept with 3 levels of Pain Resistance does not suffer any modifiers for sustaining up to 3 boxes of damage and suffers a reduced penalty with more significant injuries. |
This description however is at best ambigous, at worst goes opposite the other examples.
Opinions on this?
Posted by: Bull Aug 3 2006, 03:27 PM
As far as I know, you don;t get any penalties until you acquire that 3rd box of damage.
Bull
Posted by: Serbitar Aug 3 2006, 03:29 PM
| QUOTE (Smokeskin) |
| It seems that most people think that wound modifiers goes like 1-3 wounds: -1 4-6 wounds: -2 etc. |
I dont think thats what most people think.
Posted by: Demerzel Aug 3 2006, 03:33 PM
My first thought was 1-3 = -1 etc. This was probably a hold over from thinging SR3- style. I find many of my misconceptions of the rules stem from remembering the former versions. I think that previous experience is a powerful bias in my reading of the rules, and often I'll read a bit of fluff consistant with old rules, then miss the intent of the new rule.
Posted by: Demerzel Aug 3 2006, 03:33 PM
I should clarify I don't think that anymore, I'm curretnly of the opinion that 0-2 = 0, 3-5 = -1, etc...
Posted by: Bull Aug 3 2006, 03:35 PM
| QUOTE (Serbitar) | ||
I dont think thats what most people think. |
There are a few. I make it a point to note the change when I do SR4 demo's, because people are just very used to the idea of getting a modifier for one box of damage (ala a L wound in SR1-3).
I don't know about most though
I only know a couple hundred people who play SR4 though, and most of them were either playtesters, or I taught to play. 
For all I know, the other thousands who bought SR4 think that 
Bull
Posted by: Brahm Aug 3 2006, 03:36 PM
| QUOTE (Serbitar @ Aug 3 2006, 10:29 AM) | ||
I dont think thats what most people think. |
I've seen a few people express that view. But not many. I suspect mostly because it is wrong.
EDIT *shakes an angry fist at Bull* You have struck back after me beating you the first couple of times.
Posted by: James McMurray Aug 3 2006, 03:37 PM
Nobody in my group ever thought that way. I'm curious where the figures for the "most" calculation came from. 
Posted by: Bull Aug 3 2006, 03:56 PM
| QUOTE (Brahm) |
| EDIT *shakes an angry fist at Bull* You have struck back after me beating you the first couple of times. |
You have way more free time than me, I think.
Posted by: Smokeskin Aug 3 2006, 04:52 PM
The "most" part came from the Idiot's Guide to the Matrix 2.0 thread, where the issue came up and everyone seemed to settle on the "-1 for 1 box of damage". But I guess I assumed wrongly, and on a rather thin basis.
Posted by: Dread Polack Aug 3 2006, 04:58 PM
| QUOTE (Smokeskin) |
| It seems that most people think that wound modifiers goes like 1-3 wounds: -1 4-6 wounds: -2 etc. |
I also thought this. When I looked at the condition monitor, I assumed the -1 applied to the entire row of boxes, and so on. After reading the parts you quoted, and having read some messages here, I was set straight.
I think maybe a good way to do it, if making your own condition monitor is to label your modifier in each box.
Dread Polack
Posted by: GrinderTheTroll Aug 3 2006, 04:59 PM
| QUOTE (Smokeskin) |
| The "most" part came from the Idiot's Guide to the Matrix 2.0 thread, where the issue came up and everyone seemed to settle on the "-1 for 1 box of damage". But I guess I assumed wrongly, and on a rather thin basis. |
If you played SR1-SR3 this was the norm.
It's hard to fight the temptation of applying pre-SR4 ideas and rules to a new version. It's probably the hardest part of learning the new rules IMO.
As a side note, the higher threshold-before-modifiers makes Pain Tolerence and other abilities/augments even more effective.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Aug 3 2006, 05:16 PM
Initially, I just took it for granted that the -1 applied on the first box. It wasn't until I saw arguments that I actually examined it closely enough to realize what it really said.
Posted by: Teux Aug 3 2006, 05:21 PM
I think any new players who take a look at wound modifiers will figure it out pretty simply. Even the damage boxes on the character sheet make it fairly plain.
Any misconception probably only comes from older players who remember the '1 damage box = -1 modifier' rule. It's easy to miss in all the small differences between SR3 and SR4...
Posted by: Poison Aug 3 2006, 05:30 PM
| QUOTE (Dread Polack) | ||
I also thought this. When I looked at the condition monitor, I assumed the -1 applied to the entire row of boxes, and so on. After reading the parts you quoted, and having read some messages here, I was set straight. I think maybe a good way to do it, if making your own condition monitor is to label your modifier in each box. Dread Polack |
So what are the exact rules then? I still seem to miss it.
Posted by: James McMurray Aug 3 2006, 05:37 PM
0-2 wounds: 0 modifier
3-5 wounds: -1
6-8 wounds: -2
9-11 wounds: -3
etc.
Posted by: Moon-Hawk Aug 3 2006, 05:46 PM
Right. -1 per FULL three damage boxes.
NOT: -1 per three (or part thereof) damage boxes.
Now granted, what they say in the BBB is clear, and the correct interpretation is in there, but they probably should've been overly explicit for the sake of us stubborn old-timers. 
Posted by: Shrike30 Aug 3 2006, 05:50 PM
| QUOTE (Smokeskin) |
| I believe the correct way is 0-2 wounds: 0 modifier 3-5 wounds: -1 6-8 wounds: -2 |
You are correct, sir.
Posted by: knasser Aug 3 2006, 05:54 PM
Bloody Hell. Count another one in for thinking it applied to the entire row. I bet there are a lot of older players who assumed this.
Thanks Smokeskin!
Posted by: booklord Aug 3 2006, 06:14 PM
If I were to have written a top ten list of changes I really liked about SR4. The no damage modifiers until you take at least 3 boxes of damage would have made the list.
I knew.
Posted by: AngelWuff Aug 3 2006, 07:38 PM
heh. didn't notice that. but I won't remind my players.... I'd think even 1 box is usually enough to not make you happy and start hurting like crazy. but I suppose I'll have to go over it with my players
Posted by: Charon Aug 4 2006, 12:23 AM
"I'm okay guys, it's just a flesh wound!"
I like the new 2 box period of grace.
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