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Dumpshock Forums _ Shadowrun _ Hey, how about a Character Dossier thread?
Posted by: KosherPickle Oct 18 2003, 02:11 AM
So, a nice little thread about the Dossier, perhaps?
The cover is new and different old art, not the same as the old work-up cover.
My first thought, even before opening the pages, was "How is this going to be different from Wordman's sheets?" Well, the quick and easy answer is that Wordman used the "Shadowrun" font. SCD doesn't.
The best way to approach this item is to think of it as the counterpart to the GM Screen, except for players. Combat Sequences appear inside the front cover, as well as Attributes w/Linked Skills (extremely complete, as far as I can tell), and the Skill Improvement table. Next page has main character information: Name, Attributes, Condition Monitor, Skills, Reaction/Initiative, and Dice Pools. The last two have helpful boxes to write the numbers in, for easy calculation. There seems to be plenty of room to write everything.
Weapons and Martial Arts are next. No 5 by 5 ammo fill-in chart like Wordman, but there's places to write down all the necessaries. Next page is Armor, Gear, and the Athletics fill-in lines. Again, I can't stress the amount of space available to write stuff in. This is a feature that really beats Wordman sheets.
Augmentation is next. Cyber, Bio, Nano, and Genetech (!) are all here. Lifestyles and ID are across from this. Plenty of lines to describe the stuff, which is helpful now that Edges and Flaws for both exist.
A page for Contacts. Name, Contact Level, Attributes, and other necessaries. Magical stuff on the next two pages. No place for magical items like Foci, however. Very extensive box for the Ally Spirit, however.
Next page is split in half. Vehicle Data takes up both slots. About as extensive as you'll find anywhere. More rigger stuff on the next page. You can actually write down the subscribed drones in a list now. IVIS and FDDM are recognized and included in the sheet.
Combination Otaku/Decker sheet. Excellent Matrix Initiative Calculator. Adept/Otaku page on the other side (yeah, I don't get it either). Also has a random Edges and Flaws chart to list personal E&F. This obviously seems like a space issue. Copying pages is rather cheap, though. <shrug>
Personal Information on a character. Room to sketch, height, weight, etc. And a few amusing "dates and fun facts" (Biggest debt, Most people killed in a firefight, Number of times dealing with a dragon, and more).
Extremely useful character healing page. All kinds of helpful tables. Not extensive to the point of M&M (which also deals with surgery), but plenty good for determing whether or not a trip to DocWagon is in order, and how long it'll be.
Character Advancement. This is where you put your Karma, both earned and spent. By spent, I mean: <Thing I bought with Karma> bought with <amount of karma> on <date>.
Current run notes. Buncha empty lines. Write whatever here.
Last page: Summary of Actions. Very close in nature to the http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/sheets/actions_reference_sheet.pdf.
Nit-picky thing: Some of the pages seem a little faded. This may be a little problematic when photocopying; I'll have to test it.
This looks like it was proof-read to hell and back.
Definitely worth my $5. Thumbs up, guys.
Posted by: Kanada Ten Oct 18 2003, 02:41 AM
How's it held together? Will it be easy to add/fit copied pages of the contacts and lifestyles pages? Must have it soon...
Posted by: KosherPickle Oct 18 2003, 04:41 AM
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) |
| How's it held together? Will it be easy to add/fit copied pages of the contacts and lifestyles pages? Must have it soon... |
Stapled together, like a magazine.
Posted by: Adam Oct 19 2003, 05:43 AM
Thanks for the review!
| QUOTE |
| A page for Contacts. Name, Contact Level, Attributes, and other necessaries. Magical stuff on the next two pages. No place for magical items like Foci, however. |
Oops. I knew we would end up forgetting something. This would appear to be it.
| QUOTE |
| This looks like it was proof-read to hell and back. |
We tried. It went through some pretty extensive revisions and refinements.
Two FYIs: Both the Linked Skill and Actions Reference Sheets are as up to date as possible, including sourcebooks such as Target: Wastelands and Rigger 3 Revised. We had a fun last minute scramble to update them. . .
Second FYI: Unlike regular character sheets, permission is not given to photocopy the Character Dossier. I know many of you will anyway, but don't tell me, okay?
Posted by: winterhawk11 Oct 19 2003, 08:35 PM
| QUOTE |
| Oops. I knew we would end up forgetting something. This would appear to be it. |
Actually, there is a section for foci, but it's on the Adept page. It probably would have been nicer to have one for each (or put it on the Magician page rather than the Adept page), but this is a mage player talking.
Posted by: KosherPickle Oct 20 2003, 02:29 AM
| QUOTE (winterhawk11) | ||
Actually, there is a section for foci, but it's on the Adept page. It probably would have been nicer to have one for each (or put it on the Magician page rather than the Adept page), but this is a mage player talking. |
Sucks to me. I'm such an awesome reviewer.
No complaints for me, then.
Posted by: The Question Man Oct 22 2003, 05:24 PM
Minor Error page 3 . Second Primary Range Weapon , under Gas Venting(Rating--) instead of __"underscore" .
Personal Preferences : (Organizational)
Adept Powers , Foci , Edges , and Flaws should have their own page . The Otaku , Channels , and Living Persona should be elsewhere .
Otherwise a good purchase , but $6.95 canuck .
Posted by: Adam Oct 22 2003, 05:37 PM
| QUOTE (The Question Man) |
| Otherwise a good purchase , but $6.95 canuck . |
There is no Magic Pixie Dust that makes the Canadian Dollar worth the same as the American Dollar.
Posted by: grimshear Oct 22 2003, 11:47 PM
Dude: I got mine for $6 even Canadian
As for my little nit picky thing: The space for "Corps with bounties on my head" is awfully small. 
Grim Shear
"Think about taking up dumbassitude as a profession."
Posted by: 252 Oct 23 2003, 01:23 AM
Yes is there a place to review how your store is doing for getting the book.
Well my store once again doesn't have it.
Okay I know you don't care, but it makes me feel better that I know I said something.
Posted by: Adam Oct 23 2003, 01:40 AM
Have you asked them to order it for you? If they don't stock SR regularly, it's not likely they'll get copies in. However, if you ask them to bring it in, they may start carrying SR again.
Posted by: Jérémie Oct 24 2003, 01:32 AM
It finally arrived in France, 5€. Ordered one to have something to criticize about 
Posted by: 252 Oct 24 2003, 03:03 AM
Well the thing is they do carry the stuff. He just carries what he wants to in what he sells. He is still around so I'm guessing that he is doing a good job at what he picks however I don't remember when the last time I actually got anything through him was. Now let me think Shadowrun, oh yes it wasn't that long ago he got Shadowbeat and NAN vol I. Wow did that take a long time for him to get those in, oh wait. Nooo I think he just got those in off some guy who was selling some of their older stuff. Now let me think oh yes I do the same exact thing to get my stuff. Buy it off the older guys who are retiring or whatever.
Posted by: Shadow Oct 24 2003, 03:19 AM
Buy online, it's easier if not always cheaper.
Posted by: Adam Oct 24 2003, 03:02 PM
| QUOTE (252 @ Oct 23 2003, 10:03 PM) |
| Well the thing is they do carry the stuff. He just carries what he wants to in what he sells. He is still around so I'm guessing that he is doing a good job at what he picks however I don't remember when the last time I actually got anything through him was. |
That didn't really answer my question. If you walk in and say "Hey, you don't have Book X. The ISBN is such-and-such and the stock number is so-and-so. I want it - please order it for me.", what does he say?
Posted by: krishcane Oct 27 2003, 07:23 PM
I just picked up two copies of it -- I like it! It's well-done.
I presume it's helpful when we kindly point out errors so the next print can be better.
-- Inside front cover, under Skills listing, under the Body attribute, you have "Athletics", "Driving", and "Parachuting". That's meant to be "Diving", not "Driving".
-- Under weapons of choice, under Ranged Attack TNs, not sure if these are wrong or not, but I want to ask:
Smart Goggles are listed with range TNs at 3/3/5(7)/8. This implies that Smart Goggles give a -1 for all circumstances except Moderate range, where you get a -2. Is that right?
I thought the Extreme Range TN for Smartlink-2 was 5? But it's listed here as 7. Is that right? It goes from 3s at Long Range to 7s at Extreme Range?
Overall, excellent work!! It's really nice to have all these charts and numbers together in one place for people. In fact, I think it will even serve to assist character-making for new players, to be able to see all the relevant stuff and possibilities reflected on these pages.
It's also marketing genius. Some people will undoubtably copy these things, but for $5, many people will just buy a new one for their PCs. My group buys a new box of dice for $8 to $11 for each one of their PCs, as part of some good luck superstition, so there's a good chance they'll spring another $5 for the Dossier. I went to my local gaming store and said, "How many of these do you have?" He said, "Just those two. You wanted more?" His eyes lit up when I said everyone in my group wants two or three of them.
--K
Posted by: Rajaat99 Oct 28 2003, 03:03 PM
I've been playing my game for too long. I know everyone will buy one. If one of my players had just a copy of the dossier, everyone would laugh at them and call their character a newbie.
I do love how cheap the dossier is though, it does make it easy.
Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Oct 30 2003, 01:45 AM
| QUOTE (krishcane) |
| -- I thought the Extreme Range TN for Smartlink-2 was 5? But it's listed here as 7. Is that right? It goes from 3s at Long Range to 7s at Extreme Range? |
Likely to have factored in the range finder that seems close to compulsory for the smart link 2.
Anyhow has it been shipped to the UK yet?? if so what's its full title?
Posted by: Adam Oct 30 2003, 02:54 AM
It should be in the UK now; Esdevium typically gets products within a week of their UK ship date. The full title is "The Shadowrun Character Dossier"
Posted by: Shockwave_IIc Oct 30 2003, 02:59 AM
thanks, will order from local store tho i think they get there stuff from hobby games.
Posted by: BIG BAD BEESTE Nov 5 2003, 02:03 PM
Hoi there Shockwave - you should find one available over here now. i picked mine up in London last week. Shame that I couldn't get a copy at Speil '03 in Essen though, but FanPro are probably still translating it into German.
As for the assessment; OK its a good cheap purchase for the Player who's dedicated and has those incredibly usefule things like the Actions chart and Skill diversion table (I kinda miss the old Skill Web though...). It's got plenty of allocated areas for practically everything, although I found that some areas were woefully inadequate for the usual "What can I spend my Resources A on?" character. IE: Bioware & Cyberware - definately need a whole page for those murder machines out there. Same goes for gear - you know how those gadget freaks horde. Oh, and don't forget the Gun-Bunnies who will be bemused at only have space for a primary and secondary weapon. Better stick in a whole page there with another for the ammo and explosives.
Aside from that not bad. Nicely presented, neat and quite eye-catching. I'm still going to design my own sheets as usual though. ;D
Oh, and I'm sure that some of those Range Target Numbers are off. Check em closely.
Posted by: Vagabond Nov 9 2003, 06:47 PM
I think it's okay. Personally I think the "dummy" boxes (My INT + My WILL + My QUI ÷ 2 = My Combat Pool) are helpful, but I think they could have been shrunken on to another table or something in favor of some other info. Overall it's about 2 or 3 pages worth of tables plus one Wordman sheet stretched out over what? 18 or so pages?
I think it would have been better to do the "Player Screen" thing and have multiple copies of different sheets. But I think it's worth the 5 bucks- at least once for a character you really want to hang on to.
Of course I'm not going to copy anything out of that book, Adam. That would be wrong and strongly discourage anyone else from doing it, too- er, either.
Posted by: JongWK Nov 14 2003, 06:34 PM
A friend of mine showed me his dossier yesterday. I am honestly impressed by it.
-Why doesn't it have a Metatype box?
-The page with Otaku/Adept/Foci etc. seems like an effort to keep the product into a page limit, am I right?
-The Fun Facts also seems a little too cramped.
Other than that, outstanding. 
Posted by: Adam Nov 14 2003, 07:44 PM
| QUOTE (JongWK) |
| -Why doesn't it have a Metatype box? |
Because none of the proofreaders noticed that Jeff and I forgot it. yeah! Blame those dirty proofreaders!
Posted by: BIG BAD BEESTE Nov 18 2003, 03:50 PM
Oooh - be careful there Adam. Hell hath no fury like a disgruntled proofreader. They can twist your words and despoil your creative license should they so desire. Beware the proofreader Adam... BEWARE!
Posted by: Adam Nov 18 2003, 10:28 PM
I fear no proofreader; they are a different breed from editor entirely.
Posted by: Larsine Nov 18 2003, 11:31 PM
Quite nice, but as usual with things like this, it will never satisfy me 100%, but it will add inspiration for my own homemade sheets.
| QUOTE |
| The cover is new and different old art, not the same as the old work-up cover. |
Where is the new part? The three drawing used are from Bottled Demon, Lone Star Sourcebook and DMZ
| QUOTE |
| This looks like it was proof-read to hell and back. |
Well they could have done a better job. Here are the mistakes I've found so far:
Tables of Note (inside cover):
Attacker's/defender's/target's/weapon's/spell's should be attackers/defenders/targets/weapons/spells. You only use ' when you shorten things like "do not -> don't".
Driving (under body skills) should be diving.
Aura reading (under intelligence skills) should have a *, since you can't default to this skill.
Hovercraft (under reaction skill) is missing.
Weapons of choice (page 2?): Many of the ranged attack target numbers are wrong. Here are the corrected ones according to my calculations:
Smart goggles**: 3 4 5(7) 8
Smartlink-2 w/ Range Finder: 2 3 3(5) 5
Image Magnification Level 1: 4 4 5(5) 6(8)
Image Magnification Level 1 with Laser Sight+: 3 3 4(4) 5(7)
Gas Venting (Rating ---) should be Gas Venting (Rating___)
Posted by: Kanada Ten Nov 18 2003, 11:58 PM
| QUOTE |
| You only use ' when you shorten things like "do not -> don't". |
Incorrect. The ' symbol is also used to show possession as in "the attacker's guns" and for plural attackers "the attackers' guns".
Posted by: moosegod Nov 19 2003, 12:16 AM
However, he's right in this instance- the last two should have no " ' "
Posted by: BIG BAD BEESTE Nov 19 2003, 12:33 PM
Don't get me started on English Terms...
Defence, Armour, Specialisation, etc.
Ho-hum.
BTW Adam, you quite correct old bean. Proofreaders are a totally different breed than Editors. Beware the Proofreader, but Bribe the Editor! 
Posted by: Pistons Nov 19 2003, 01:47 PM
| QUOTE (BIG BAD BEESTE) |
| Don't get me started on English Terms... Defence, Armour, Specialisation, etc. Ho-hum. |
That would only be a problem if SR used the English (UK) dictionary rather than the English (US) dictionary.
Posted by: Adam Nov 19 2003, 02:31 PM
| QUOTE (BIG BAD BEESTE @ Nov 19 2003, 07:33 AM) |
| BTW Adam, you quite correct old bean. Proofreaders are a totally different breed than Editors. Beware the Proofreader, but Bribe the Editor! |
I do quite frequently thank editors for making my work look better than it actually is... no reason to bribe them. I want my work to be twisted into the best possible form; my words are not precious.
[Incidentally, using the UK dictionary at my day job at the US dictionary for most of my freelance work... that's a pain in the arse.
]
Posted by: Patrick Goodman Nov 19 2003, 06:40 PM
I can't speak for all the proofreaders who might be looking this thread over, but I know that when I proofed the thing (and I did proof it to hell and back, as anyone who's seen my proofing style will tell you) I didn't get the chance to look at what the inside covers were going to have; all I had to go on was a rough mockup of what the sheets inside were going to look like.
Just wanted to clarify that little tidbit for our usual band of hecklers.
Posted by: KosherPickle Nov 19 2003, 07:53 PM
| QUOTE (Larsine) | ||
Where is the new part? The three drawing used are from Bottled Demon, Lone Star Sourcebook and DMZ |
Given some reading comprehension, you'd know that the cover of Character Dossier is not the same as the mock-up that was available some time ago. Hence, new and different old art.
| QUOTE | ||
Well they could have done a better job. Here are the mistakes I've found so far: Tables of Note (inside cover): Attacker's/defender's/target's/weapon's/spell's should be attackers/defenders/targets/weapons/spells. You only use ' when you shorten things like "do not -> don't". |
Maybe you forgot that there are things in the English language called possessives.
| QUOTE |
| Driving (under body skills) should be diving. |
Good catch.
| QUOTE |
| Aura reading (under intelligence skills) should have a *, since you can't default to this skill. |
Err...Astrally active characters Astrally Perceive using their Intelligence. Aura Reading is a complementary skill to that.
In addition, Cyberzombies can use Intelligence as their Astral Perception skill at a +4 modifier, but can pick up Aura Reading later.
| QUOTE |
| Hovercraft (under reaction skill) is missing. |
Yup.
| QUOTE |
| Weapons of choice (page 2?): Many of the ranged attack target numbers are wrong. Here are the corrected ones according to my calculations: Smart goggles**: 3 4 5(7) 8 Smartlink-2 w/ Range Finder: 2 3 3(5) 5 Image Magnification Level 1: 4 4 5(5) 6(  Image Magnification Level 1 with Laser Sight+: 3 3 4(4) 5(7) |
I'll take your word for it. I'm sure the correct tables exist in Cannon Companion, anyway.
| QUOTE |
| Gas Venting (Rating ---) should be Gas Venting (Rating___) |
In the second "Primary Ranged Weapon" box, yes.
Posted by: KosherPickle Nov 19 2003, 07:58 PM
| QUOTE (moosegod) |
| However, he's right in this instance- the last two should have no " ' " |
God, you're still wrong.
"spell's Drain Code". "spell's outcome". "Weapon's Power". These are direct quotes from the inside cover. These are correct.
Give these people a little credit for knowing basic apostrophe usage.
And for those that don't, http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif is always ready to drop some knowledge on anyone.
Posted by: Adam Nov 19 2003, 08:46 PM
Patrick is correct about the inside covers not getting the same proofing as the interior.
I've still yet to see my copies, btw, which is why I haven't responded to some of the more specific points; I'll write up an errata for Rob when I finally get my copies and have some free time.
Posted by: BIG BAD BEESTE Nov 20 2003, 01:47 PM
Wow Kosherpickle, that Flower is sure angry all right.
Please keep of the grass folks, you're only going to upset the flower (and those pesky druids...)
Posted by: Connor Nov 22 2003, 09:02 AM
I'd like to add one comment on the Character Dossier. The section for keeping track of your karma expenditures is a great idea, but I feel the execution could have been done a lot better. Something like getting frid of the boxes and just having the blank line area labeled at the top of the column would allow for a lot more updates to be logged there or have them take up less space for more in the "notes" section below it.
Overall, I think it's a great tool and I'm going to move my group over to using it. Especialy since most of them are horrible at keeping track of character stuff.
Posted by: Larsine Nov 23 2003, 10:44 AM
| QUOTE | ||
Err...Astrally active characters Astrally Perceive using their Intelligence. Aura Reading is a complementary skill to that. In addition, Cyberzombies can use Intelligence as their Astral Perception skill at a +4 modifier, but can pick up Aura Reading later. |
But you still can't default to Aura Reading:
SR3 page 86-87: Aura Reading: Default: None. Either you have it or you don't.
and here: http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/errata_sr3.shtml
Lars
Posted by: Larsine Nov 23 2003, 11:48 AM
| QUOTE |
| Maybe you forgot that there are things in the English language called possessives. |
Damn. I knew there was something i forgot since I've had English 20 years ago
Well at least I've learnt something today.| QUOTE |
| I'll take your word for it. I'm sure the correct tables exist in Cannon Companion, anyway. |
But SCD is till wrong, and what's the point of having the same information several places if only one of these are correct. Half the time you will be looking at the wrong tables, and somebody is bound to use the wrong numbers.
In any case CC is also wrong, but only in one place (Image Magnification 1 with Laser Sight) which should be: 3 3 4(4) 5(7)
Lars
Posted by: spotlite Nov 28 2003, 05:42 PM
I like it, but at £3.50 (that's UK) a pop, I'll be buying them for those already retired or retiring characters which are old and falling apart, so I can have a nice permanent record.
But even though overall I think its really very good (worth it for the inside covers and character portait/record of activity pages alone imho) I was a bit narked that the adept and otaku bits filled the same page. Both of those, for my money, have a lot more to say than that. The powers section could have been expanded to allow people to keep a shorthand record of what individual powers do or any special effects that go with them (eg one of my adepts has a street fighter 2 style effect when he does killing hands/distance strike. Its fluff, it does more harm than good, but its the character's trademark and its cool, so I have it), or other notes (geases and what form they take for each power etc), and the otaku section could've been expanded to cover things in more details.
However, i do realise you must've agonised about what to put in and leave out for a goodly while and you absolutely can't please everyone, so I'm still giving it 4 out of 5 because of all the other really good stuff in it.
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