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Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 23 2003, 09:18 AM

Is it possible to say how to play an effective shaman if so how?
or if not explain why.

Thanks

Posted by: Sphynx Oct 23 2003, 09:39 AM

Of course, as a matter of fact, magic-types are the most effective creatures you can play. They have a completely unlimited potential for power.

My personal preference (as people here know) is to play a shamanic type who concentrates on sustained spells and Quickening. Spellcasting becomes a less sure success as you start facing more powerful adversaries, so I personally rarely even cast spells at targets, relying on my magical enhancement via spells. I cast Armour and ImpInvis pretty regularly, but never combat spells, I rely on my Ares Predator for my 'combat' magic.

But that's just personal taste, not the 'way to do things right'. Great thing about Magic is that you're almost always rolling more dice than the opposition is rolling to resist. So spells succeed easily if you keep the Force of the spell as high (or higher) than the TN to cast the spell.

Sphynx

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 23 2003, 10:13 AM

Ok.


Hows this for priorities?


A: Full Magician
B: 400,000
C: Elf
D: Attributes 21
E: Skills 27


For an elven raven shaman?

and where should i put my stats ideally?

Thanks

Posted by: Synner Oct 23 2003, 10:19 AM

And now for the non-crunchy approach:

Chose a Totem that actually fits with the shadowrunner lifestyle rather than just a coolness factor. Also make sure its one you feel comfortable roleplaying the mindset. If you're a newb shaman player, go for an Urban Totem like Cat and Dog.

Remember that in character a shaman's magic is based on a certain worldview and that that belief affects not only his mystical side but his day-to-day outlook. If you roleplay a Rat Shaman to the hilt, sooner or later you're going to have integration problems with the rest of your team.

Shamans and mages are rare and they know it, finding one with the right set of skills to run the shadows is rarer yet. Use that for both negotiation and intimidation purposes. Only 1 in 1000 people have trained Talent.

Find a magic group or build your own as soon as you can. This is the type of friend that keeps on giving. They're useful contacts, research aides, initiatory help and plot foci all in one.

Use some of your starting cash "to make" some friends in the same field. Rarely will other characters be able to point you in the direction of a friendly talismonger or a fellow shaman to patch you up. Plus it makes it easier when you're looking for a specific piece of magical gear or an essential focus.

A shaman's relationship with spirits is uniquely different from a mages. This isn't simply because you can call one up in an Action! Shamans deal with spirits with a respect that many mages don't bother with. It helps that the vast majority of Nature spirits (especially Urban ones) have a lot more personality than most Elementals and it is left unsaid that disrepecting one can literally come back to haunt you later. Use this uniqueness to increase your mystique and impress your teammates (as well as the spirits).

Learn to use Nature Spirit powers like other magicians use spells. They can be just as effective and versatile.

Posted by: Sphynx Oct 23 2003, 10:20 AM

Why resources 2nd? What are you planning on buying that you couldn't buy with resources of 20k?

As for 21 attribute points, mine would look like this:

Str:2 Bod:5 Will:6 Int: 5 Qui:3 Cha:3

Personally though, I'd go with a dwarf for more points, but that would, by most definitions, be 'munchkin' though I honestly prefer playing the dwarf.

Dwarf: Str:3 Bod:5 Will:6 Int:6 Qui:5 Cha:3 (Total of +4 more attributes than an Elf)

Sphynx

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 23 2003, 10:24 AM

*groans*

i want to be a city elf shaman that dresses well and in all intents and purposes is beautiful for npc's to look at.

also what are my recomended priorities?

thanks

Posted by: mfb Oct 23 2003, 10:27 AM

the aspect of shamans i find the most interesting and useful is their spirits. they have their drawbacks, of course--you can only have one active at a time, they only last 12 hours--but a judicious shamanic conjuror can be his team's strongest asset. whereas elementals are largely relegated to being simple thugs, spirits have a wide array of powers that can often be more useful than another (Force)M punch or flamethrower. my favorites are confusion, conceal, and search--conceal is especially handy because it works on both the physical and the astral.

Posted by: Namergon Oct 23 2003, 10:30 AM

Definitely it will be Cat, rather than Raven. IMO, that is.

Posted by: Nephyte Oct 23 2003, 10:30 AM

I personally recommend using a system that allows more flexibility in character creation.

Sum to 10 isn't bad... I like point buy the best though some people feel the magic character suffers under this system.



30: Full Magic
5: 90K
10: Elf
56: Attributes (28)
24: Skills


Attributes:

Bod: 4
Str: 3
Int: 6
Quick: 4
Will: 6
Cha: 8

I'd probably take Cat as my totem too ... though that can be bad sometimes for a Runner, it fits the concept.


[edit] Changed post to more reflect what I thought was the characters needs...

Posted by: Sphynx Oct 23 2003, 10:31 AM

That makes a huge difference my friend. Attributes 2nd is a MUST then. Forget about resources since you can easily buy trinkets and spell points in-game later. I'd switch the places of your attributes and resources and leave the rest as-is. Get that charisma up to 8 and make sure you have a WP of 6 then split the rest up. Comes out to 4 per attribute if you do an average after taking out the 8 and 6 for Cha and Wil. Maybe reduce Str by a point to raise Int.

Sphynx

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 23 2003, 10:36 AM

how about this then?


body: 3
quickness: 4
stength: 3
charisma: 8
intelligence: 6
willpower: 6

elf

full magician

20,000 nuyen

skills 27


and sphynx would you see a cat shaman thats social cuase i thought they where supposed to be loners.

anyone with thoughts feel free!

Posted by: Sphynx Oct 23 2003, 10:42 AM

I suggest you wait til you know what spells you want to pick a totem. But I'ma munchkin.

Sphynx

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 23 2003, 10:48 AM

illusion, city spirits defensive.

Posted by: BigKnockers Oct 23 2003, 10:56 AM

Posted by: Lilt Oct 23 2003, 10:58 AM

Those attributes look great, charisma 8 will come in especially handy when summoning spirits. If you want to be a bit more munchkin, decide what you're ever going to use your strength for (how much would you ever want to carry? Do you ever hit people or do you just spell them?) and take strength down to 2, putting up either quickness or body.

IMHO a cat would make a good social character. They may be 'loners' but that also translates into self-confidence which is a good social characteristic. They have good hygene and are obsessively presentable, which would probably make any corp mook take an instant liking to her. The totem itself dosen't have the best modifiers but I think they can be worked as a shadowrunner.

[edit] I also Highly recommend sticking with full mage. If you want to be a mage/face then you will probably have a good charisma as it is and spirits are a extremely useful when employed correctly.[/edit

Posted by: Cryptkeeper Oct 23 2003, 10:59 AM

ok, that kinda defeats the purpose you obvoisly didnt read the whole thread. and anyone out there is cat any good for what i'm doing or is it making my character unsocial

Posted by: Lilt Oct 23 2003, 11:09 AM

Not quite. Cats draw attention to themselves due to the great personal (animal ) magnetism that they posess. They are loners, but that's only because there is noone quite like them. They're never the type to follow someone else blindly so they're more likely to end-up as leaders than followers. Not to mention predatory instincts and subtlety which are good for removing social rivals.

I think that cat would make a great social totem if played right.

Posted by: Sphynx Oct 23 2003, 11:10 AM

Personally, I'd go Spider, but that's just because it's "cool", it's not so much for an easy totem.

As for Cat, you can be a social loner. Not wanting to hang out with all those people attracted to you is fine, as is not wanting to be best friends with the people who have to negotiate with.

Sphynx

Posted by: Synner Oct 23 2003, 11:21 AM

Posted by: Sphynx Oct 23 2003, 11:33 AM

And that's different from Cat, how? A mask doesn't have to look like the personification of the totem, a spider shaman might appear to be weaving a delicate web of astral energy or perhaps causes a weblike background. Doesn't have to me a multi-faceted eyes, pincer mouth type of look.

Regardless, casting spells in a social situation is never good, especially Illusion (though a nice Manip, Influence spell might be nice). Personally though, if I were trying to make a socialite, I'd not follow a path of Illusion. Manip spells of Influence, Makeover, Mob Mood, Fashion, Alter Temperature are better options than Confusion and Trid Phantasm IMHO.

Sphynx

Posted by: Lilt Oct 23 2003, 11:53 AM

For cat: light magic could make the character's voice sound purr-like, moderate magic would make her seem to move more slinkily, serious magic may make her eyes look like cat eyes, and deadly magic may make her look like a cat-wouman. Obviously it depends on what your GM says your mask manifests as but IMHO Light should be relatively innocuous, moderate should give you a clue if you know what you're looking for, Serious should be a clue to anyone paying attention, and deadly should be relatively obvious. At-least that's how I play it in my game.

[edit]these are just some ramblings... Nothing relevant[/edit]

Posted by: Drain Brain Oct 23 2003, 12:50 PM

I am very much of the opinion that ALL totems should be house ruled on a game by game basis.

Since Shamanic magic is all intuitive and interpretive, I would think that different Shamen see their totem and relate to it differently. For instance, I have many cats - some are aloof, stand-off-ish and downright hostile. Others are cute cuddly bundles of love. I would assosciate myself with Cat in the latter way, being a cat person. Cat Shaman X, who lives down the road however, well she might be a real pain!

The same goes for all the totems - think of all the different aspects and rework them to suit. Say the Sun totem. In the UK druidic form, it's a bringer of light and life, but to a nomadic desert tribe it might be a cruel tormentor.

Have a think, talk with your GM. You could use any totem you want - Prairie Dogs, Wolves, Dogs, Geese - all are social animals in some respects. You just have to make sure that your Shaman views them that way. You could also try things like Pegasus?

Posted by: Siege Oct 23 2003, 01:13 PM

Playing a shaman is just a matter of applying Totem traits to the character's personality.

And just a little wierd -- animal magnetism is a wonderful thing.

-Siege

Posted by: Bearclaw Oct 23 2003, 09:18 PM

Posted by: Velocity Oct 23 2003, 09:27 PM

Posted by: Kagetenshi Oct 23 2003, 10:03 PM

Posted by: Lilt Oct 23 2003, 10:37 PM

Concealment cannot be used on the astral. It is a Physical power (P262, SR3). Confusion may be used on the astral, however, as it is a Manna power. I'd say that confusion is the most powerful/useful critter ability, broken almost...

Concealment does add to the linking test TN for ritual sorcery, but that's about the only astral-like thing it can do. On the plus side, you are also concealed from technological sensors.

Posted by: Rev Oct 23 2003, 11:22 PM

One does not have to be alone to be a loner. One could be surrounded by people, but still somewhat quiet and in the background. One could even be highly social but never forming strong connections to people, that sort of personality would make an excellent face. The sort who has lots of friends, but is not really a freind to many people.

Also in shadowrun casting a spell could creep people out or make you incredibly popular. What could be cooler than having the power ninety some percent of people only dream about? Sort of like flaunting wealth. Turns some off, others on. Having superhuman physical stats should work the same way. And what else are you going to cast in front of people but illusions and telekinetic manipulations? That acid-blast isn't going to reassure anybody.

The best thing about a shaman is that it gives you a leg up on roleplaying. The totem is a great help in defining your personality which can help you have more fun and be more effective at the same time.

Posted by: Kanada Ten Oct 23 2003, 11:26 PM

A Nature Spirit can use any Physical power on the Shaman that summoned it -without materializing- through the magical link between them.

Posted by: Lilt Oct 23 2003, 11:43 PM

Sorry, I was reading that to be it applied to astral perception checks. Yes a spirit can remain astral whilst concealing, guarding, and useing movement on the summoner (assuming it's force 3 or above).

This is somewhat free to interpretation though. As materialisation is a Physical power it would technically be impossible (by the other rules) for an astral spirit to ever materialise, the wording of the power takes presidence (and makes it possible) though.

Posted by: OurTeam Oct 23 2003, 11:47 PM

In our game, we don't let conceal power affect astral appearance. While a magician might be in the corner of a darkened room concealed by a hearth spirit, we rule that an observer on the astral plane will see the glowing form of the spirit and the glowing form of the magician. In fact, astral space will be lit by them. If the target being concealed is the shaman who controls the spirit, then the spirit can stay in astral space while providing the concealment.

My players rarely choose a totem that can go beserk, and rarely choose a totem that wouldn't want to be part of a team.

Posted by: FlakJacket Oct 24 2003, 12:04 AM

Posted by: Glyph Oct 24 2003, 05:07 AM

Your latest set of stats looked good, although I would probably move a point from Strength to Body, to help your survivability. The high Charisma is especially good, because shamans conjure on the fly - they need to be able to resist conjuring Drain. Spirits are often underutilized. Remember that they are in your arsenal as well as spells. Also remember that you can astrally project - and with your mental stats, you will be very effective in astral combat. The personality that you describe fits well with Cat shamans, and with your high Charisma it will be easy to get decently high social skills.

Posted by: Snow_Fox Oct 24 2003, 01:21 PM

Posted by: TinkerGnome Oct 24 2003, 02:24 PM

Posted by: OurTeam Oct 24 2003, 06:44 PM

Posted by: Talia Invierno Nov 7 2003, 08:25 PM

Posted by: Artemis Nov 7 2003, 09:56 PM

Very true. I like Crypt's last set of stats, they look very promising.

I run a shaman who is very much what he was looking to create. Artemis is a female elf who is a Sea Shaman. Low physical stats, but maxed out mental (Cha 8, Int 6, Will 6) and a good face presence. (Which charisma definitely helps out with.)

There are two routes that one can take —to generalize things to a high degree— that I've seen most clearly defined. A Team needs at least one capable combat mage. Someone who can go into astral space, run sweeps and perform astral combat. If this is the route you choose, a good mana combat spells such as manabolt or stunball are very useful to have. Barrier spells and Levitation are msot useful as well.

The other route is that of the useless mage. One who gets spells that nobody else gets, simply because it's fun! Sometimes these spells come in more useful than the combat spells do. (Control Animal and Hot Potato for instance.) MitS is usually a must for the more creative players who want interesting and somewhat unique characters. Many useful/useless spells to be found in there, as well as details on initiating and creating ally spirits, which definitely is a must for magicians at some point in their growth.

Posted by: Siege Nov 7 2003, 11:53 PM